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Gurbani (14-53)
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ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਝ | Raag Maajh
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Gurbani (151-185)
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Gurbani (489-503)
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Gurbani (527-536)
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Gurbani (660-685)
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Bhagat Bani (691-695)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਤਸਰੀ | Raag Jaitsree
Gurbani (696-703)
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ਰਾਗੁ ਟੋਡੀ | Raag Todee
ਰਾਗੁ ਬੈਰਾੜੀ | Raag Bairaaree
ਰਾਗੁ ਤਿਲੰਗ | Raag Tilang
Gurbani (721-727)
Bhagat Bani (727)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੂਹੀ | Raag Suhi
Gurbani (728-750)
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ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ | Raag Bilaaval
Gurbani (795-831)
Ashtpadiyan (831-838)
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Vaar Sat (841-843)
Chhant (843-848)
Vaar Bilaaval (849-855)
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ਰਾਗੁ ਗੋਂਡ | Raag Gond
Gurbani (859-869)
Ashtpadiyan (869)
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ਰਾਗੁ ਰਾਮਕਲੀ | Raag Ramkalee
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ਰਾਗੁ ਨਟ ਨਾਰਾਇਨ | Raag Nat Narayan
Gurbani (975-980)
Ashtpadiyan (980-983)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਲੀ ਗਉੜਾ | Raag Maalee Gauraa
Gurbani (984-988)
Bhagat Bani (988)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਰੂ | Raag Maaroo
Gurbani (889-1008)
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Anjulian (1019-1020)
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ਰਾਗੁ ਤੁਖਾਰੀ | Raag Tukhaari
Bara Maha (1107-1110)
Chhant (1110-1117)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕੇਦਾਰਾ | Raag Kedara
Gurbani (1118-1123)
Bhagat Bani (1123-1124)
ਰਾਗੁ ਭੈਰਉ | Raag Bhairo
Gurbani (1125-1152)
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Ashtpadiyan (1153-1167)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਸੰਤੁ | Raag Basant
Gurbani (1168-1187)
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Vaar Basant (1193-1196)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਾਰਗ | Raag Saarag
Gurbani (1197-1200)
Partaal (1200-1231)
Ashtpadiyan (1232-1236)
Chhant (1236-1237)
Vaar Saarang (1237-1253)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਲਾਰ | Raag Malaar
Gurbani (1254-1293)
Partaal (1265-1273)
Ashtpadiyan (1273-1278)
Chhant (1278)
Vaar Malaar (1278-91)
Bhagat Bani (1292-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਾਨੜਾ | Raag Kaanraa
Gurbani (1294-96)
Partaal (1296-1318)
Ashtpadiyan (1308-1312)
Chhant (1312)
Vaar Kaanraa
Bhagat Bani (1318)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਲਿਆਨ | Raag Kalyaan
Gurbani (1319-23)
Ashtpadiyan (1323-26)
ਰਾਗੁ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ | Raag Prabhaatee
Gurbani (1327-1341)
Ashtpadiyan (1342-51)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਜਾਵੰਤੀ | Raag Jaijaiwanti
Gurbani (1352-53)
Salok | Gatha | Phunahe | Chaubole | Swayiye
Sehskritee Mahala 1
Sehskritee Mahala 5
Gaathaa Mahala 5
Phunhay Mahala 5
Chaubolae Mahala 5
Shaloks Bhagat Kabir
Shaloks Sheikh Farid
Swaiyyae Mahala 5
Swaiyyae in Praise of Gurus
Shaloks in Addition To Vaars
Shalok Ninth Mehl
Mundavanee Mehl 5
ਰਾਗ ਮਾਲਾ, Raag Maalaa
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Discussions
Interfaith Dialogues
Avatars Of Vishnu And The Satguru
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<blockquote data-quote="Harjas Kaur Khalsa" data-source="post: 85463" data-attributes="member: 2125"><p><strong>Re: Q&A with Sant Jagjit Singh ji Harkhowal</strong></p><p></p><p></p><p>Why does Gurbani so many times say niragun saragun? Clearly because they are aspects of the One totality. One is not over the other. One is hidden, and one is perceived.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Can you explain WHY Gurbani PRAISES the Avataaras and sargun saroop of Vishnu as the Supreme Lord God if what you claim is really true? If what you say is correct, then nothing like praise of the forms of avtaara should be anywhere near Gurbani.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Explain:</p><p></p><p></p><p><span style="color: Purple"><p style="margin-left: 20px">ਅਚੁਤ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਪਰਮੇਸੁਰ ਅੰਤਰਜਾਮੀ ॥ </p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">achuth paarabreham paramaesur antharajaamee ||</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">The Supreme Lord God is imperishable, the Transcendent Lord, the Inner-knower, the Searcher of hearts.</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple"></p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">ਮਧੁਸੂਦਨ ਦਾਮੋਦਰ ਸੁਆਮੀ ॥ </p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">madhhusoodhan dhaamodhar suaamee ||</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">He is the Slayer of demons, our Supreme Lord and Master. </p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple"></p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">ਰਿਖੀਕੇਸ ਗੋਵਰਧਨ ਧਾਰੀ ਮੁਰਲੀ ਮਨੋਹਰ ਹਰਿ ਰੰਗਾ ॥੧॥ </p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">rikheekaes govaradhhan dhhaaree muralee manohar har rangaa ||1||</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">The Supreme Rishi, the Master of the sensory organs, the uplifter of mountains, the joyful Lord playing His enticing flute. ||1||</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple"></p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">ਮੋਹਨ ਮਾਧਵ ਕ੍ਰਿਸ੍ਨ ਮੁਰਾਰੇ ॥ </p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">mohan maadhhav kirasa muraarae ||</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">The Enticer of Hearts, the Lord of wealth, Krishna, the Enemy of ego.</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple"></p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">ਜਗਦੀਸੁਰ ਹਰਿ ਜੀਉ ਅਸੁਰ ਸੰਘਾਰੇ ॥ </p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">jagadheesur har jeeo asur sanghaarae ||</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">The Lord of the Universe, the Dear Lord, the Destroyer of demons.</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple"></p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">ਜਗਜੀਵਨ ਅਬਿਨਾਸੀ ਠਾਕੁਰ ਘਟ ਘਟ ਵਾਸੀ ਹੈ ਸੰਗਾ ॥੨॥ </p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">jagajeevan abinaasee thaakur ghatt ghatt vaasee hai sangaa ||2||</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">The Life of the World, our eternal and ever-stable Lord and Master dwells within each and every heart, and is always with us. ||2||</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple"></p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">ਧਰਣੀਧਰ ਈਸ ਨਰਸਿੰਘ ਨਾਰਾਇਣ ॥ </p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">dhharaneedhhar ees narasingh naaraaein ||</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">The Support of the Earth, the man-lion, the Supreme Lord God.</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple"></p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">ਦਾੜਾ ਅਗ੍ਰੇ ਪ੍ਰਿਥਮਿ ਧਰਾਇਣ ॥ </p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">dhaarraa agrae prithham dhharaaein ||</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">The Protector who tears apart demons with His teeth, the Upholder of the earth.</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple"></p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">ਬਾਵਨ ਰੂਪੁ ਕੀਆ ਤੁਧੁ ਕਰਤੇ ਸਭ ਹੀ ਸੇਤੀ ਹੈ ਚੰਗਾ ॥੩॥ </p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">baavan roop keeaa thudhh karathae sabh hee saethee hai changaa ||3||</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">O Creator, You assumed the form of the pygmy to humble the demons; You are the Lord God of all. ||3||</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple"></p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">ਸ੍ਰੀ ਰਾਮਚੰਦ ਜਿਸੁ ਰੂਪੁ ਨ ਰੇਖਿਆ ॥ </p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">sree raamachandh jis roop n raekhiaa ||</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">You are the Great Raam Chand, who has no form or feature.</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple"></p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">ਬਨਵਾਲੀ ਚਕ੍ਰਪਾਣਿ ਦਰਸਿ ਅਨੂਪਿਆ ॥ </p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">banavaalee chakrapaan dharas anoopiaa ||</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">Adorned with flowers, holding the chakra in Your hand, Your form is incomparably beautiful.</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple"></p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">ਸਹਸ ਨੇਤ੍ਰ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਹੈ ਸਹਸਾ ਇਕੁ ਦਾਤਾ ਸਭ ਹੈ ਮੰਗਾ ॥੪॥ </p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">sehas naethr moorath hai sehasaa eik dhaathaa sabh hai mangaa ||4||</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">You have thousands of eyes, and thousands of forms. You alone are the Giver, and all are beggars of You. ||4||</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple"></p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">ਭਗਤਿ ਵਛਲੁ ਅਨਾਥਹ ਨਾਥੇ ॥ </p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">bhagath vashhal anaathheh naathhae ||</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">You are the Lover of Your devotees, the Master of the masterless.</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple"></p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">ਗੋਪੀ ਨਾਥੁ ਸਗਲ ਹੈ ਸਾਥੇ ॥ </p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">gopee naathh sagal hai saathhae ||</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">The Lord and Master of the milk-maids, You are the companion of all. </p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple"></p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">ਬਾਸੁਦੇਵ ਨਿਰੰਜਨ ਦਾਤੇ ਬਰਨਿ ਨ ਸਾਕਉ ਗੁਣ ਅੰਗਾ ॥੫॥ </p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">baasudhaev niranjan dhaathae baran n saako gun angaa ||5||</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">O Lord, Immacuate Great Giver, I cannot describe even an iota of Your Glorious Virtues. ||5||</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple"></p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">ਮੁਕੰਦ ਮਨੋਹਰ ਲਖਮੀ ਨਾਰਾਇਣ ॥ </p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">mukandh manohar lakhamee naaraaein ||</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">Liberator, Enticing Lord, Lord of Lakshmi, Supreme Lord God.</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple"></p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">ਦ੍ਰੋਪਤੀ ਲਜਾ ਨਿਵਾਰਿ ਉਧਾਰਣ ॥ </p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">dhropathee lajaa nivaar oudhhaaran ||</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">Savior of Dropadi's honor.</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple"></p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">ਕਮਲਾਕੰਤ ਕਰਹਿ ਕੰਤੂਹਲ ਅਨਦ ਬਿਨੋਦੀ ਨਿਹਸੰਗਾ ॥੬॥ </p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">kamalaakanth karehi kanthoohal anadh binodhee nihasangaa ||6||</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">Lord of Maya, miracle-worker, absorbed in delightful play, unattached. ||6|| </p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple"></p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">ਅਮੋਘ ਦਰਸਨ ਆਜੂਨੀ ਸੰਭਉ ॥ </p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">amogh dharasan aajoonee sanbho ||</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">The Blessed Vision of His Darshan is fruitful and rewarding; He is not born, He is self-existent. </p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple"></p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">ਅਕਾਲ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਜਿਸੁ ਕਦੇ ਨਾਹੀ ਖਉ ॥ </p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">akaal moorath jis kadhae naahee kho ||</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">His form is undying; it is never destroyed. </p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple"></p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">ਅਬਿਨਾਸੀ ਅਬਿਗਤ ਅਗੋਚਰ ਸਭੁ ਕਿਛੁ ਤੁਝ ਹੀ ਹੈ ਲਗਾ ॥੭॥ </p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">abinaasee abigath agochar sabh kishh thujh hee hai lagaa ||7||</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">O imperishable, eternal, unfathomable Lord, everything is attached to You. ||7|| </p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple"></p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">ਸ੍ਰੀਰੰਗ ਬੈਕੁੰਠ ਕੇ ਵਾਸੀ ॥ </p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">sreerang baikunth kae vaasee ||</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">The Lover of greatness, who dwells in heaven. </p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple"></p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">ਮਛੁ ਕਛੁ ਕੂਰਮੁ ਆਗਿਆ ਅਉਤਰਾਸੀ ॥ </p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">mashh kashh kooram aagiaa aoutharaasee ||</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">By the Pleasure of His Will, He took incarnation as the great fish and the tortoise. </p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple"></p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">ਕੇਸਵ ਚਲਤ ਕਰਹਿ ਨਿਰਾਲੇ ਕੀਤਾ ਲੋੜਹਿ ਸੋ ਹੋਇਗਾ ॥੮॥ </p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">kaesav chalath karehi niraalae keethaa lorrehi so hoeigaa ||8||</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">The Lord of beauteous hair, the Worker of miraculous deeds, whatever He wishes, comes to pass. ||8||</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple"></p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">ਨਿਰਾਹਾਰੀ ਨਿਰਵੈਰੁ ਸਮਾਇਆ ॥ </p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">niraahaaree niravair samaaeiaa ||</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">He is beyond need of any sustenance, free of hate and all-pervading. </p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple"></p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">ਧਾਰਿ ਖੇਲੁ ਚਤੁਰਭੁਜੁ ਕਹਾਇਆ ॥ </p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">dhhaar khael chathurabhuj kehaaeiaa ||</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">He has staged His play; He is called the four-armed Lord.</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple"></p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">ਸਾਵਲ ਸੁੰਦਰ ਰੂਪ ਬਣਾਵਹਿ ਬੇਣੁ ਸੁਨਤ ਸਭ ਮੋਹੈਗਾ ॥੯॥ </p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">saaval sundhar roop banaavehi baen sunath sabh mohaigaa ||9||</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">He assumed the beautiful form of the blue-skinned Krishna; hearing His flute, all are fascinated and enticed. ||9||</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple"></p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">ਬਨਮਾਲਾ ਬਿਭੂਖਨ ਕਮਲ ਨੈਨ ॥ </p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">banamaalaa bibhookhan kamal nain ||</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">He is adorned with garlands of flowers, with lotus eyes.</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple"></p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">ਸੁੰਦਰ ਕੁੰਡਲ ਮੁਕਟ ਬੈਨ ॥ </p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">sundhar kunddal mukatt bain ||</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">His ear-rings, crown and flute are so beautiful.</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple"></p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">ਸੰਖ ਚਕ੍ਰ ਗਦਾ ਹੈ ਧਾਰੀ ਮਹਾ ਸਾਰਥੀ ਸਤਸੰਗਾ ॥੧੦॥ </p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">sankh chakr gadhaa hai dhhaaree mehaa saarathhee sathasangaa ||10||</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">He carries the conch, the chakra and the war club; He is the Great Charioteer, who stays with His Saints. ||10||</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple"></p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">ਪੀਤ ਪੀਤੰਬਰ ਤ੍ਰਿਭਵਣ ਧਣੀ ॥ </p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">peeth peethanbar thribhavan dhhanee ||</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">The Lord of yellow robes, the Master of the three worlds. </p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple"></p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">ਜਗੰਨਾਥੁ ਗੋਪਾਲੁ ਮੁਖਿ ਭਣੀ ॥ </p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">jagannaathh gopaal mukh bhanee ||</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">The Lord of the Universe, the Lord of the world; with my mouth, I chant His Name.</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple"></p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">ਸਾਰਿੰਗਧਰ ਭਗਵਾਨ ਬੀਠੁਲਾ ਮੈ ਗਣਤ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਸਰਬੰਗਾ ॥੧੧॥ </p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">saaringadhhar bhagavaan beethulaa mai ganath n aavai sarabangaa ||11||</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">The Archer who draws the bow, the Beloved Lord God; I cannot count all His limbs. ||11||</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">~SGGS Ji p. 1082</p><p></span></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Who is the four-armed Lord who holds the conch, the warclub, the chakra? It is the same "He" who is the Light which all these avataaras come from. It is Maha-Vishnu. Reading the pauri above, calling as beautiful, immaculate, transcendant, eternal, liberator of sins, savior of honor, miraculous, imperishable, wondrous, Lord of Maya, Liberator, miracle-worker, Lover of devotees, Creator...certainly sounds like PRAISE! And it certainly sounds like a blending of characteristics of saragun and niragun. It is unquestionably praising the being called "God." Yet God is described clearly as Vishnu and the Vishnu avataars. Why is this? If what you claim is true, then this whole pauri shouldn't even be in Gurbani. But it is, in fact, GURUBANI! So Guru Himself contradicts you.</p><p></p><p></p><p><img src="http://www.comm.unt.edu/histofperf/CGordon/Vishnu01.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /></p><p>Undeniable that the four-armed God described in Gurbani who holds chakra, conch shell and war mace... is none other than Vishnu. Gurbani is also describing Him as Master of the three worlds (Pakriti), Lord of beautiful forms and Creator God, Lord of the universe, destroyer of demons. How can this be? Why is this pauri in Gurbani veer ji? It contradicts everything you say.</p><p></p><p></p><p><span style="color: RoyalBlue"><p style="margin-left: 20px">ਬਬਾ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਜਾਨਤ ਤੇ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ॥ </p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: RoyalBlue">babaa breham jaanath thae brehamaa ||</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: RoyalBlue">BABBA: One who knows God is a Brahmin.</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: RoyalBlue"></p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: RoyalBlue">ਬੈਸਨੋ ਤੇ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਸੁਚ ਧਰਮਾ ॥ </p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: RoyalBlue">baisano thae guramukh such dhharamaa ||</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: RoyalBlue">A Vaishnaav is one who, as Gurmukh, lives the righteous life of Dharma.</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: RoyalBlue">~SGGS Ji p. 258</p><p></span></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Harjas Kaur Khalsa, post: 85463, member: 2125"] [b]Re: Q&A with Sant Jagjit Singh ji Harkhowal[/b] Why does Gurbani so many times say niragun saragun? Clearly because they are aspects of the One totality. One is not over the other. One is hidden, and one is perceived. Can you explain WHY Gurbani PRAISES the Avataaras and sargun saroop of Vishnu as the Supreme Lord God if what you claim is really true? If what you say is correct, then nothing like praise of the forms of avtaara should be anywhere near Gurbani. Explain: [COLOR="Purple"][INDENT]ਅਚੁਤ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਪਰਮੇਸੁਰ ਅੰਤਰਜਾਮੀ ॥ achuth paarabreham paramaesur antharajaamee || The Supreme Lord God is imperishable, the Transcendent Lord, the Inner-knower, the Searcher of hearts. ਮਧੁਸੂਦਨ ਦਾਮੋਦਰ ਸੁਆਮੀ ॥ madhhusoodhan dhaamodhar suaamee || He is the Slayer of demons, our Supreme Lord and Master. ਰਿਖੀਕੇਸ ਗੋਵਰਧਨ ਧਾਰੀ ਮੁਰਲੀ ਮਨੋਹਰ ਹਰਿ ਰੰਗਾ ॥੧॥ rikheekaes govaradhhan dhhaaree muralee manohar har rangaa ||1|| The Supreme Rishi, the Master of the sensory organs, the uplifter of mountains, the joyful Lord playing His enticing flute. ||1|| ਮੋਹਨ ਮਾਧਵ ਕ੍ਰਿਸ੍ਨ ਮੁਰਾਰੇ ॥ mohan maadhhav kirasa muraarae || The Enticer of Hearts, the Lord of wealth, Krishna, the Enemy of ego. ਜਗਦੀਸੁਰ ਹਰਿ ਜੀਉ ਅਸੁਰ ਸੰਘਾਰੇ ॥ jagadheesur har jeeo asur sanghaarae || The Lord of the Universe, the Dear Lord, the Destroyer of demons. ਜਗਜੀਵਨ ਅਬਿਨਾਸੀ ਠਾਕੁਰ ਘਟ ਘਟ ਵਾਸੀ ਹੈ ਸੰਗਾ ॥੨॥ jagajeevan abinaasee thaakur ghatt ghatt vaasee hai sangaa ||2|| The Life of the World, our eternal and ever-stable Lord and Master dwells within each and every heart, and is always with us. ||2|| ਧਰਣੀਧਰ ਈਸ ਨਰਸਿੰਘ ਨਾਰਾਇਣ ॥ dhharaneedhhar ees narasingh naaraaein || The Support of the Earth, the man-lion, the Supreme Lord God. ਦਾੜਾ ਅਗ੍ਰੇ ਪ੍ਰਿਥਮਿ ਧਰਾਇਣ ॥ dhaarraa agrae prithham dhharaaein || The Protector who tears apart demons with His teeth, the Upholder of the earth. ਬਾਵਨ ਰੂਪੁ ਕੀਆ ਤੁਧੁ ਕਰਤੇ ਸਭ ਹੀ ਸੇਤੀ ਹੈ ਚੰਗਾ ॥੩॥ baavan roop keeaa thudhh karathae sabh hee saethee hai changaa ||3|| O Creator, You assumed the form of the pygmy to humble the demons; You are the Lord God of all. ||3|| ਸ੍ਰੀ ਰਾਮਚੰਦ ਜਿਸੁ ਰੂਪੁ ਨ ਰੇਖਿਆ ॥ sree raamachandh jis roop n raekhiaa || You are the Great Raam Chand, who has no form or feature. ਬਨਵਾਲੀ ਚਕ੍ਰਪਾਣਿ ਦਰਸਿ ਅਨੂਪਿਆ ॥ banavaalee chakrapaan dharas anoopiaa || Adorned with flowers, holding the chakra in Your hand, Your form is incomparably beautiful. ਸਹਸ ਨੇਤ੍ਰ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਹੈ ਸਹਸਾ ਇਕੁ ਦਾਤਾ ਸਭ ਹੈ ਮੰਗਾ ॥੪॥ sehas naethr moorath hai sehasaa eik dhaathaa sabh hai mangaa ||4|| You have thousands of eyes, and thousands of forms. You alone are the Giver, and all are beggars of You. ||4|| ਭਗਤਿ ਵਛਲੁ ਅਨਾਥਹ ਨਾਥੇ ॥ bhagath vashhal anaathheh naathhae || You are the Lover of Your devotees, the Master of the masterless. ਗੋਪੀ ਨਾਥੁ ਸਗਲ ਹੈ ਸਾਥੇ ॥ gopee naathh sagal hai saathhae || The Lord and Master of the milk-maids, You are the companion of all. ਬਾਸੁਦੇਵ ਨਿਰੰਜਨ ਦਾਤੇ ਬਰਨਿ ਨ ਸਾਕਉ ਗੁਣ ਅੰਗਾ ॥੫॥ baasudhaev niranjan dhaathae baran n saako gun angaa ||5|| O Lord, Immacuate Great Giver, I cannot describe even an iota of Your Glorious Virtues. ||5|| ਮੁਕੰਦ ਮਨੋਹਰ ਲਖਮੀ ਨਾਰਾਇਣ ॥ mukandh manohar lakhamee naaraaein || Liberator, Enticing Lord, Lord of Lakshmi, Supreme Lord God. ਦ੍ਰੋਪਤੀ ਲਜਾ ਨਿਵਾਰਿ ਉਧਾਰਣ ॥ dhropathee lajaa nivaar oudhhaaran || Savior of Dropadi's honor. ਕਮਲਾਕੰਤ ਕਰਹਿ ਕੰਤੂਹਲ ਅਨਦ ਬਿਨੋਦੀ ਨਿਹਸੰਗਾ ॥੬॥ kamalaakanth karehi kanthoohal anadh binodhee nihasangaa ||6|| Lord of Maya, miracle-worker, absorbed in delightful play, unattached. ||6|| ਅਮੋਘ ਦਰਸਨ ਆਜੂਨੀ ਸੰਭਉ ॥ amogh dharasan aajoonee sanbho || The Blessed Vision of His Darshan is fruitful and rewarding; He is not born, He is self-existent. ਅਕਾਲ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਜਿਸੁ ਕਦੇ ਨਾਹੀ ਖਉ ॥ akaal moorath jis kadhae naahee kho || His form is undying; it is never destroyed. ਅਬਿਨਾਸੀ ਅਬਿਗਤ ਅਗੋਚਰ ਸਭੁ ਕਿਛੁ ਤੁਝ ਹੀ ਹੈ ਲਗਾ ॥੭॥ abinaasee abigath agochar sabh kishh thujh hee hai lagaa ||7|| O imperishable, eternal, unfathomable Lord, everything is attached to You. ||7|| ਸ੍ਰੀਰੰਗ ਬੈਕੁੰਠ ਕੇ ਵਾਸੀ ॥ sreerang baikunth kae vaasee || The Lover of greatness, who dwells in heaven. ਮਛੁ ਕਛੁ ਕੂਰਮੁ ਆਗਿਆ ਅਉਤਰਾਸੀ ॥ mashh kashh kooram aagiaa aoutharaasee || By the Pleasure of His Will, He took incarnation as the great fish and the tortoise. ਕੇਸਵ ਚਲਤ ਕਰਹਿ ਨਿਰਾਲੇ ਕੀਤਾ ਲੋੜਹਿ ਸੋ ਹੋਇਗਾ ॥੮॥ kaesav chalath karehi niraalae keethaa lorrehi so hoeigaa ||8|| The Lord of beauteous hair, the Worker of miraculous deeds, whatever He wishes, comes to pass. ||8|| ਨਿਰਾਹਾਰੀ ਨਿਰਵੈਰੁ ਸਮਾਇਆ ॥ niraahaaree niravair samaaeiaa || He is beyond need of any sustenance, free of hate and all-pervading. ਧਾਰਿ ਖੇਲੁ ਚਤੁਰਭੁਜੁ ਕਹਾਇਆ ॥ dhhaar khael chathurabhuj kehaaeiaa || He has staged His play; He is called the four-armed Lord. ਸਾਵਲ ਸੁੰਦਰ ਰੂਪ ਬਣਾਵਹਿ ਬੇਣੁ ਸੁਨਤ ਸਭ ਮੋਹੈਗਾ ॥੯॥ saaval sundhar roop banaavehi baen sunath sabh mohaigaa ||9|| He assumed the beautiful form of the blue-skinned Krishna; hearing His flute, all are fascinated and enticed. ||9|| ਬਨਮਾਲਾ ਬਿਭੂਖਨ ਕਮਲ ਨੈਨ ॥ banamaalaa bibhookhan kamal nain || He is adorned with garlands of flowers, with lotus eyes. ਸੁੰਦਰ ਕੁੰਡਲ ਮੁਕਟ ਬੈਨ ॥ sundhar kunddal mukatt bain || His ear-rings, crown and flute are so beautiful. ਸੰਖ ਚਕ੍ਰ ਗਦਾ ਹੈ ਧਾਰੀ ਮਹਾ ਸਾਰਥੀ ਸਤਸੰਗਾ ॥੧੦॥ sankh chakr gadhaa hai dhhaaree mehaa saarathhee sathasangaa ||10|| He carries the conch, the chakra and the war club; He is the Great Charioteer, who stays with His Saints. ||10|| ਪੀਤ ਪੀਤੰਬਰ ਤ੍ਰਿਭਵਣ ਧਣੀ ॥ peeth peethanbar thribhavan dhhanee || The Lord of yellow robes, the Master of the three worlds. ਜਗੰਨਾਥੁ ਗੋਪਾਲੁ ਮੁਖਿ ਭਣੀ ॥ jagannaathh gopaal mukh bhanee || The Lord of the Universe, the Lord of the world; with my mouth, I chant His Name. ਸਾਰਿੰਗਧਰ ਭਗਵਾਨ ਬੀਠੁਲਾ ਮੈ ਗਣਤ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਸਰਬੰਗਾ ॥੧੧॥ saaringadhhar bhagavaan beethulaa mai ganath n aavai sarabangaa ||11|| The Archer who draws the bow, the Beloved Lord God; I cannot count all His limbs. ||11|| ~SGGS Ji p. 1082[/INDENT][/COLOR] Who is the four-armed Lord who holds the conch, the warclub, the chakra? It is the same "He" who is the Light which all these avataaras come from. It is Maha-Vishnu. Reading the pauri above, calling as beautiful, immaculate, transcendant, eternal, liberator of sins, savior of honor, miraculous, imperishable, wondrous, Lord of Maya, Liberator, miracle-worker, Lover of devotees, Creator...certainly sounds like PRAISE! And it certainly sounds like a blending of characteristics of saragun and niragun. It is unquestionably praising the being called "God." Yet God is described clearly as Vishnu and the Vishnu avataars. Why is this? If what you claim is true, then this whole pauri shouldn't even be in Gurbani. But it is, in fact, GURUBANI! So Guru Himself contradicts you. [IMG]http://www.comm.unt.edu/histofperf/CGordon/Vishnu01.jpg[/IMG] Undeniable that the four-armed God described in Gurbani who holds chakra, conch shell and war mace... is none other than Vishnu. Gurbani is also describing Him as Master of the three worlds (Pakriti), Lord of beautiful forms and Creator God, Lord of the universe, destroyer of demons. How can this be? Why is this pauri in Gurbani veer ji? It contradicts everything you say. [COLOR="RoyalBlue"][INDENT]ਬਬਾ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਜਾਨਤ ਤੇ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ॥ babaa breham jaanath thae brehamaa || BABBA: One who knows God is a Brahmin. ਬੈਸਨੋ ਤੇ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਸੁਚ ਧਰਮਾ ॥ baisano thae guramukh such dhharamaa || A Vaishnaav is one who, as Gurmukh, lives the righteous life of Dharma. ~SGGS Ji p. 258[/INDENT][/COLOR] [/QUOTE]
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Avatars Of Vishnu And The Satguru
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