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ਰਾਗੁ ਗੋਂਡ | Raag Gond
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ਰਾਗੁ ਕੇਦਾਰਾ | Raag Kedara
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ਰਾਗੁ ਭੈਰਉ | Raag Bhairo
Gurbani (1125-1152)
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Gurbani (1197-1200)
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ਰਾਗੁ ਮਲਾਰ | Raag Malaar
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ਰਾਗੁ ਕਾਨੜਾ | Raag Kaanraa
Gurbani (1294-96)
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ਰਾਗੁ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ | Raag Prabhaatee
Gurbani (1327-1341)
Ashtpadiyan (1342-51)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਜਾਵੰਤੀ | Raag Jaijaiwanti
Gurbani (1352-53)
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Sehskritee Mahala 1
Sehskritee Mahala 5
Gaathaa Mahala 5
Phunhay Mahala 5
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Swaiyyae Mahala 5
Swaiyyae in Praise of Gurus
Shaloks in Addition To Vaars
Shalok Ninth Mehl
Mundavanee Mehl 5
ਰਾਗ ਮਾਲਾ, Raag Maalaa
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<blockquote data-quote="Harjas Kaur Khalsa" data-source="post: 85462" data-attributes="member: 2125"><p><strong>Re: Q&A with Sant Jagjit Singh ji Harkhowal</strong></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Bhai Gurdas Ji doesn't say anywhere that Guru rejected the caste system. YOU said Bhai Gurdas Ji said this. That is YOUR interpretation of Bhai Gurdas. Bhai Gurdas Ji said the same thing that Vaishnava Purana says... to the God, the person of any caste who is devoted to God is the real brahmin. As the Vedas say, the Varna is decided by temperament, not by heredity. Prem Sumarag states explicitly that the Sikhs were united as the caste of Khatri-Sodhi after Guru Ram Das Ji. To say all the castes are one to the God and Guru is not to say the castes do not exist. Is not to say that Guru abolished the caste system. It is to say what it says, spiritually, all castes are equal. So why build a huge drama out of a few words? It would be clear that if Guruji abolished the caste system in the way that you claim, it would be unequivocally stated in Guru Granth Sahib Ji itself, and not as some lone tuuk somewhere in vaaran. So it is my understanding that you have built a major opinion on a small foundation of single tuuk of vaaran which does not even support your contention.</p><p></p><p>I cite Bhai Gurdas Ji because he IS authoritative in helping to interpret Gurbani. NOT because I agree with your interpretations.</p><p></p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">ਸੂਖਮ ਮਹਿ ਜਾਨੈ ਅਸਥੂਲੁ ॥ </span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">sookham mehi jaanai asathhool ||</span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">In the unmanifest, he sees the manifest world to exist.</span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple"></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">ਚਹੁ ਵਰਨਾ ਕਉ ਦੇ ਉਪਦੇਸੁ ॥ </span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">chahu varanaa ko dhae oupadhaes ||</span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">He gives instruction to people of all castes and social classes.</span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple"></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">ਨਾਨਕ ਉਸੁ ਪੰਡਿਤ ਕਉ ਸਦਾ ਅਦੇਸੁ ॥੪॥ </span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">naanak ous panddith ko sadhaa adhaes ||4||</span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">O Nanak, to such a Pandit, I bow in salutation forever. ||4||</span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple"></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">ਬੀਜ ਮੰਤ੍ਰੁ ਸਰਬ ਕੋ ਗਿਆਨੁ ॥ </span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">beej manthra sarab ko giaan ||</span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">The Beej Mantra, the Seed Mantra, is spiritual wisdom for everyone. </span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple"></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">ਚਹੁ ਵਰਨਾ ਮਹਿ ਜਪੈ ਕੋਊ ਨਾਮੁ ॥ </span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">chahu varanaa mehi japai kooo naam ||</span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">Anyone, from any class, may chant the Naam. </span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple"></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">ਜੋ ਜੋ ਜਪੈ ਤਿਸ ਕੀ ਗਤਿ ਹੋਇ ॥ </span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">jo jo japai this kee gath hoe ||</span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">Whoever chants it, is emancipated.</span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">~SGGS Ji p. 274</span></p><p></p><p></p><p>In agreement with vaaran of Bhai Gurdas Ji which you cited, the Gurbani says spiritual liberation and recitation of the Naam is open to all castes. Nowhere does Gurbani say castes do not exist, or that Guru Nanak abolished the caste system. These are radically different things.</p><p></p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Green">ਖਤ੍ਰੀ ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣ ਸੂਦ ਵੈਸ ਉਪਦੇਸੁ ਚਹੁ ਵਰਨਾ ਕਉ ਸਾਝਾ ॥ </span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Green">khathree braahaman soodh vais oupadhaes chahu varanaa ko saajhaa ||</span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Green">The four castes - the Kh'shaatriyas, Brahmins, Soodras and Vaishyas - are equal in respect to the teachings.</span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Green">~SGGS Ji p. 747</span></p><p></p><p></p><p>Why does Gurbani not clearly say, the castes do not exist, they are ritualistic superstition of the Hindus. Guruji has cleared the cobwebs from our minds. Castes are abolished all are equal? Instead, Gurbani agrees on every point with Vaishnav reformers that caste system is no bar to spirituality, yet caste system remains a part of the social order, while corrupted modernly because of the degenerating eras, original Vedic definition of caste-varna applies as a system ordained by God.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Indigo">ਸੋ ਐਸਾ ਹਰਿ ਸਭਨਾ ਕਾ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕੈ ਵਲਿ ਹੈ ਤਿਨਿ ਸਭਿ ਵਰਨ ਚਾਰੇ ਖਾਣੀ ਸਭ ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਗੋਲੇ ਕਰਿ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਅਗੈ ਕਾਰ ਕਮਾਵਣ ਕਉ ਦੀਏ ॥ </span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Indigo">so aisaa har sabhanaa kaa prabh sathigur kai val hai thin sabh varan chaarae khaanee sabh srisatt golae kar sathigur agai kaar kamaavan ko dheeeae ||</span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Indigo">Such is God, the Lord of all; He is on the True Guru's side. All castes and social classes, the four sources of creation, and the whole universe are slaves of the True Guru; God makes them work for Him.</span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Indigo">~SGGS Ji p. 851</span></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Navy">ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣੁ ਖਤ੍ਰੀ ਸੂਦ ਵੈਸ ਚਾਰਿ ਵਰਨ ਚਾਰਿ ਆਸ੍ਰਮ ਹਹਿ ਜੋ ਹਰਿ ਧਿਆਵੈ ਸੋ ਪਰਧਾਨੁ ॥ </span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Navy">braahaman khathree soodh vais chaar varan chaar aasram hehi jo har dhhiaavai so paradhhaan ||</span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Navy">There are four castes: Brahmin, Kh'shaatriya, Soodra and Vaishya, and there are four stages of life. One who meditates on the Lord, is the most distinguished and renowned. </span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Navy"></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Navy">ਜਿਉ ਚੰਦਨ ਨਿਕਟਿ ਵਸੈ ਹਿਰਡੁ ਬਪੁੜਾ ਤਿਉ ਸਤਸੰਗਤਿ ਮਿਲਿ ਪਤਿਤ ਪਰਵਾਣੁ ॥੩॥ </span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Navy">jio chandhan nikatt vasai hiradd bapurraa thio sathasangath mil pathith paravaan ||3||</span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Navy">The poor castor oil plant, growing near the sandalwood tree, becomes fragrant; in the same way, the sinner, associating with the Saints, becomes acceptable and approved. ||3</span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Navy"></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Navy">ਓਹੁ ਸਭ ਤੇ ਊਚਾ ਸਭ ਤੇ ਸੂਚਾ ਜਾ ਕੈ ਹਿਰਦੈ ਵਸਿਆ ਭਗਵਾਨੁ ॥ </span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Navy">ouhu sabh thae oochaa sabh thae soochaa jaa kai hiradhai vasiaa bhagavaan ||</span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Navy">He, within whose heart the Lord abides, is the highest of all, and the purest of all.</span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Navy">ਜਨ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਤਿਸ ਕੇ ਚਰਨ ਪਖਾਲੈ ਜੋ ਹਰਿ ਜਨੁ ਨੀਚੁ ਜਾਤਿ ਸੇਵਕਾਣੁ ॥੪॥੪॥ </span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Navy">jan naanak this kae charan pakhaalai jo har jan neech jaath saevakaan ||4||4||</span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Navy">Servant Nanak washes the feet of thM at humble servant of the Lord; he may be from a low class family, but he is now the Lord's servant. ||4||4||</span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Navy">~SGGS Ji p. 861</span></p><p></p><p></p><p><img src="http://www.leschischools.org/Images/medicinewhl2.GIF" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /></p><p>Medicine Wheel of the indigenous Native American tribes representing the original varna root races of man and their different but equal qualities. </p><p>Universal and ancient truth.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Anyway, as to our previous discussion:</p><p></p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Teal">ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਆਪਿ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰੁ ॥ </span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Teal">breham giaanee aap nirankaar ||</span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Teal">The God-conscious being is himself the Formless Lord.</span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Teal"></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Teal">ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਕੀ ਸੋਭਾ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਬਨੀ ॥ </span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Teal">breham giaanee kee sobhaa breham giaanee banee ||</span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Teal">The glory of the God-conscious being belongs to the God-conscious being alone.</span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Teal"></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Teal">ਨਾਨਕ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਸਰਬ ਕਾ ਧਨੀ ॥੮॥੮॥ </span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Teal">naanak breham giaanee sarab kaa dhhanee ||8||8||</span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Teal">O Nanak, the God-conscious being is the Lord of all. ||8||8||</span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Teal">~SGGS Ji p. 276</span></p><p></p><p>If Krishna proclaims God-consciousness in Bhagavad-Gita He is the Supreme Lord God, and Gurbani acknowledges Him as Satguru of Dwapara Yuga and avataara of the Supreme Lord God, who are you to attack His claims as "boasting" and insult as being far away from Guru Nanak Panth? You do not even know what Guru Nanak Panth is, when clearly Gurbani says Guru Nanak Himself is Satguru and avataar for Kaliyuga after Krishna and that the Lord has come into the world as both.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Harjas Kaur Khalsa, post: 85462, member: 2125"] [b]Re: Q&A with Sant Jagjit Singh ji Harkhowal[/b] Bhai Gurdas Ji doesn't say anywhere that Guru rejected the caste system. YOU said Bhai Gurdas Ji said this. That is YOUR interpretation of Bhai Gurdas. Bhai Gurdas Ji said the same thing that Vaishnava Purana says... to the God, the person of any caste who is devoted to God is the real brahmin. As the Vedas say, the Varna is decided by temperament, not by heredity. Prem Sumarag states explicitly that the Sikhs were united as the caste of Khatri-Sodhi after Guru Ram Das Ji. To say all the castes are one to the God and Guru is not to say the castes do not exist. Is not to say that Guru abolished the caste system. It is to say what it says, spiritually, all castes are equal. So why build a huge drama out of a few words? It would be clear that if Guruji abolished the caste system in the way that you claim, it would be unequivocally stated in Guru Granth Sahib Ji itself, and not as some lone tuuk somewhere in vaaran. So it is my understanding that you have built a major opinion on a small foundation of single tuuk of vaaran which does not even support your contention. I cite Bhai Gurdas Ji because he IS authoritative in helping to interpret Gurbani. NOT because I agree with your interpretations. [INDENT][COLOR="Purple"]ਸੂਖਮ ਮਹਿ ਜਾਨੈ ਅਸਥੂਲੁ ॥ sookham mehi jaanai asathhool || In the unmanifest, he sees the manifest world to exist. ਚਹੁ ਵਰਨਾ ਕਉ ਦੇ ਉਪਦੇਸੁ ॥ chahu varanaa ko dhae oupadhaes || He gives instruction to people of all castes and social classes. ਨਾਨਕ ਉਸੁ ਪੰਡਿਤ ਕਉ ਸਦਾ ਅਦੇਸੁ ॥੪॥ naanak ous panddith ko sadhaa adhaes ||4|| O Nanak, to such a Pandit, I bow in salutation forever. ||4|| ਬੀਜ ਮੰਤ੍ਰੁ ਸਰਬ ਕੋ ਗਿਆਨੁ ॥ beej manthra sarab ko giaan || The Beej Mantra, the Seed Mantra, is spiritual wisdom for everyone. ਚਹੁ ਵਰਨਾ ਮਹਿ ਜਪੈ ਕੋਊ ਨਾਮੁ ॥ chahu varanaa mehi japai kooo naam || Anyone, from any class, may chant the Naam. ਜੋ ਜੋ ਜਪੈ ਤਿਸ ਕੀ ਗਤਿ ਹੋਇ ॥ jo jo japai this kee gath hoe || Whoever chants it, is emancipated. ~SGGS Ji p. 274[/COLOR][/INDENT] In agreement with vaaran of Bhai Gurdas Ji which you cited, the Gurbani says spiritual liberation and recitation of the Naam is open to all castes. Nowhere does Gurbani say castes do not exist, or that Guru Nanak abolished the caste system. These are radically different things. [INDENT][COLOR="Green"]ਖਤ੍ਰੀ ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣ ਸੂਦ ਵੈਸ ਉਪਦੇਸੁ ਚਹੁ ਵਰਨਾ ਕਉ ਸਾਝਾ ॥ khathree braahaman soodh vais oupadhaes chahu varanaa ko saajhaa || The four castes - the Kh'shaatriyas, Brahmins, Soodras and Vaishyas - are equal in respect to the teachings. ~SGGS Ji p. 747[/COLOR][/INDENT] Why does Gurbani not clearly say, the castes do not exist, they are ritualistic superstition of the Hindus. Guruji has cleared the cobwebs from our minds. Castes are abolished all are equal? Instead, Gurbani agrees on every point with Vaishnav reformers that caste system is no bar to spirituality, yet caste system remains a part of the social order, while corrupted modernly because of the degenerating eras, original Vedic definition of caste-varna applies as a system ordained by God. [INDENT][COLOR="Indigo"]ਸੋ ਐਸਾ ਹਰਿ ਸਭਨਾ ਕਾ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕੈ ਵਲਿ ਹੈ ਤਿਨਿ ਸਭਿ ਵਰਨ ਚਾਰੇ ਖਾਣੀ ਸਭ ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਗੋਲੇ ਕਰਿ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਅਗੈ ਕਾਰ ਕਮਾਵਣ ਕਉ ਦੀਏ ॥ so aisaa har sabhanaa kaa prabh sathigur kai val hai thin sabh varan chaarae khaanee sabh srisatt golae kar sathigur agai kaar kamaavan ko dheeeae || Such is God, the Lord of all; He is on the True Guru's side. All castes and social classes, the four sources of creation, and the whole universe are slaves of the True Guru; God makes them work for Him. ~SGGS Ji p. 851[/COLOR][/INDENT] [INDENT][COLOR="Navy"]ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣੁ ਖਤ੍ਰੀ ਸੂਦ ਵੈਸ ਚਾਰਿ ਵਰਨ ਚਾਰਿ ਆਸ੍ਰਮ ਹਹਿ ਜੋ ਹਰਿ ਧਿਆਵੈ ਸੋ ਪਰਧਾਨੁ ॥ braahaman khathree soodh vais chaar varan chaar aasram hehi jo har dhhiaavai so paradhhaan || There are four castes: Brahmin, Kh'shaatriya, Soodra and Vaishya, and there are four stages of life. One who meditates on the Lord, is the most distinguished and renowned. ਜਿਉ ਚੰਦਨ ਨਿਕਟਿ ਵਸੈ ਹਿਰਡੁ ਬਪੁੜਾ ਤਿਉ ਸਤਸੰਗਤਿ ਮਿਲਿ ਪਤਿਤ ਪਰਵਾਣੁ ॥੩॥ jio chandhan nikatt vasai hiradd bapurraa thio sathasangath mil pathith paravaan ||3|| The poor castor oil plant, growing near the sandalwood tree, becomes fragrant; in the same way, the sinner, associating with the Saints, becomes acceptable and approved. ||3 ਓਹੁ ਸਭ ਤੇ ਊਚਾ ਸਭ ਤੇ ਸੂਚਾ ਜਾ ਕੈ ਹਿਰਦੈ ਵਸਿਆ ਭਗਵਾਨੁ ॥ ouhu sabh thae oochaa sabh thae soochaa jaa kai hiradhai vasiaa bhagavaan || He, within whose heart the Lord abides, is the highest of all, and the purest of all. ਜਨ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਤਿਸ ਕੇ ਚਰਨ ਪਖਾਲੈ ਜੋ ਹਰਿ ਜਨੁ ਨੀਚੁ ਜਾਤਿ ਸੇਵਕਾਣੁ ॥੪॥੪॥ jan naanak this kae charan pakhaalai jo har jan neech jaath saevakaan ||4||4|| Servant Nanak washes the feet of thM at humble servant of the Lord; he may be from a low class family, but he is now the Lord's servant. ||4||4|| ~SGGS Ji p. 861[/COLOR][/INDENT] [IMG]http://www.leschischools.org/Images/medicinewhl2.GIF[/IMG] Medicine Wheel of the indigenous Native American tribes representing the original varna root races of man and their different but equal qualities. Universal and ancient truth. Anyway, as to our previous discussion: [INDENT][COLOR="Teal"]ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਆਪਿ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰੁ ॥ breham giaanee aap nirankaar || The God-conscious being is himself the Formless Lord. ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਕੀ ਸੋਭਾ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਬਨੀ ॥ breham giaanee kee sobhaa breham giaanee banee || The glory of the God-conscious being belongs to the God-conscious being alone. ਨਾਨਕ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਸਰਬ ਕਾ ਧਨੀ ॥੮॥੮॥ naanak breham giaanee sarab kaa dhhanee ||8||8|| O Nanak, the God-conscious being is the Lord of all. ||8||8|| ~SGGS Ji p. 276[/COLOR][/INDENT] If Krishna proclaims God-consciousness in Bhagavad-Gita He is the Supreme Lord God, and Gurbani acknowledges Him as Satguru of Dwapara Yuga and avataara of the Supreme Lord God, who are you to attack His claims as "boasting" and insult as being far away from Guru Nanak Panth? You do not even know what Guru Nanak Panth is, when clearly Gurbani says Guru Nanak Himself is Satguru and avataar for Kaliyuga after Krishna and that the Lord has come into the world as both. [/QUOTE]
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Avatars Of Vishnu And The Satguru
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