☀️ JOIN SPN MOBILE
Forums
New posts
Guru Granth Sahib
Composition, Arrangement & Layout
ਜਪੁ | Jup
ਸੋ ਦਰੁ | So Dar
ਸੋਹਿਲਾ | Sohilaa
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ | Raag Siree-Raag
Gurbani (14-53)
Ashtpadiyan (53-71)
Gurbani (71-74)
Pahre (74-78)
Chhant (78-81)
Vanjara (81-82)
Vaar Siri Raag (83-91)
Bhagat Bani (91-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਝ | Raag Maajh
Gurbani (94-109)
Ashtpadi (109)
Ashtpadiyan (110-129)
Ashtpadi (129-130)
Ashtpadiyan (130-133)
Bara Maha (133-136)
Din Raen (136-137)
Vaar Maajh Ki (137-150)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗਉੜੀ | Raag Gauree
Gurbani (151-185)
Quartets/Couplets (185-220)
Ashtpadiyan (220-234)
Karhalei (234-235)
Ashtpadiyan (235-242)
Chhant (242-249)
Baavan Akhari (250-262)
Sukhmani (262-296)
Thittee (296-300)
Gauree kii Vaar (300-323)
Gurbani (323-330)
Ashtpadiyan (330-340)
Baavan Akhari (340-343)
Thintteen (343-344)
Vaar Kabir (344-345)
Bhagat Bani (345-346)
ਰਾਗੁ ਆਸਾ | Raag Aasaa
Gurbani (347-348)
Chaupaday (348-364)
Panchpadde (364-365)
Kaafee (365-409)
Aasaavaree (409-411)
Ashtpadiyan (411-432)
Patee (432-435)
Chhant (435-462)
Vaar Aasaa (462-475)
Bhagat Bani (475-488)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੂਜਰੀ | Raag Goojaree
Gurbani (489-503)
Ashtpadiyan (503-508)
Vaar Gujari (508-517)
Vaar Gujari (517-526)
ਰਾਗੁ ਦੇਵਗੰਧਾਰੀ | Raag Dayv-Gandhaaree
Gurbani (527-536)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਹਾਗੜਾ | Raag Bihaagraa
Gurbani (537-556)
Chhant (538-548)
Vaar Bihaagraa (548-556)
ਰਾਗੁ ਵਡਹੰਸ | Raag Wadhans
Gurbani (557-564)
Ashtpadiyan (564-565)
Chhant (565-575)
Ghoriaan (575-578)
Alaahaniiaa (578-582)
Vaar Wadhans (582-594)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੋਰਠਿ | Raag Sorath
Gurbani (595-634)
Asatpadhiya (634-642)
Vaar Sorath (642-659)
ਰਾਗੁ ਧਨਾਸਰੀ | Raag Dhanasaree
Gurbani (660-685)
Astpadhiya (685-687)
Chhant (687-691)
Bhagat Bani (691-695)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਤਸਰੀ | Raag Jaitsree
Gurbani (696-703)
Chhant (703-705)
Vaar Jaitsaree (705-710)
Bhagat Bani (710)
ਰਾਗੁ ਟੋਡੀ | Raag Todee
ਰਾਗੁ ਬੈਰਾੜੀ | Raag Bairaaree
ਰਾਗੁ ਤਿਲੰਗ | Raag Tilang
Gurbani (721-727)
Bhagat Bani (727)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੂਹੀ | Raag Suhi
Gurbani (728-750)
Ashtpadiyan (750-761)
Kaafee (761-762)
Suchajee (762)
Gunvantee (763)
Chhant (763-785)
Vaar Soohee (785-792)
Bhagat Bani (792-794)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ | Raag Bilaaval
Gurbani (795-831)
Ashtpadiyan (831-838)
Thitteen (838-840)
Vaar Sat (841-843)
Chhant (843-848)
Vaar Bilaaval (849-855)
Bhagat Bani (855-858)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੋਂਡ | Raag Gond
Gurbani (859-869)
Ashtpadiyan (869)
Bhagat Bani (870-875)
ਰਾਗੁ ਰਾਮਕਲੀ | Raag Ramkalee
Ashtpadiyan (902-916)
Gurbani (876-902)
Anand (917-922)
Sadd (923-924)
Chhant (924-929)
Dakhnee (929-938)
Sidh Gosat (938-946)
Vaar Ramkalee (947-968)
ਰਾਗੁ ਨਟ ਨਾਰਾਇਨ | Raag Nat Narayan
Gurbani (975-980)
Ashtpadiyan (980-983)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਲੀ ਗਉੜਾ | Raag Maalee Gauraa
Gurbani (984-988)
Bhagat Bani (988)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਰੂ | Raag Maaroo
Gurbani (889-1008)
Ashtpadiyan (1008-1014)
Kaafee (1014-1016)
Ashtpadiyan (1016-1019)
Anjulian (1019-1020)
Solhe (1020-1033)
Dakhni (1033-1043)
ਰਾਗੁ ਤੁਖਾਰੀ | Raag Tukhaari
Bara Maha (1107-1110)
Chhant (1110-1117)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕੇਦਾਰਾ | Raag Kedara
Gurbani (1118-1123)
Bhagat Bani (1123-1124)
ਰਾਗੁ ਭੈਰਉ | Raag Bhairo
Gurbani (1125-1152)
Partaal (1153)
Ashtpadiyan (1153-1167)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਸੰਤੁ | Raag Basant
Gurbani (1168-1187)
Ashtpadiyan (1187-1193)
Vaar Basant (1193-1196)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਾਰਗ | Raag Saarag
Gurbani (1197-1200)
Partaal (1200-1231)
Ashtpadiyan (1232-1236)
Chhant (1236-1237)
Vaar Saarang (1237-1253)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਲਾਰ | Raag Malaar
Gurbani (1254-1293)
Partaal (1265-1273)
Ashtpadiyan (1273-1278)
Chhant (1278)
Vaar Malaar (1278-91)
Bhagat Bani (1292-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਾਨੜਾ | Raag Kaanraa
Gurbani (1294-96)
Partaal (1296-1318)
Ashtpadiyan (1308-1312)
Chhant (1312)
Vaar Kaanraa
Bhagat Bani (1318)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਲਿਆਨ | Raag Kalyaan
Gurbani (1319-23)
Ashtpadiyan (1323-26)
ਰਾਗੁ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ | Raag Prabhaatee
Gurbani (1327-1341)
Ashtpadiyan (1342-51)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਜਾਵੰਤੀ | Raag Jaijaiwanti
Gurbani (1352-53)
Salok | Gatha | Phunahe | Chaubole | Swayiye
Sehskritee Mahala 1
Sehskritee Mahala 5
Gaathaa Mahala 5
Phunhay Mahala 5
Chaubolae Mahala 5
Shaloks Bhagat Kabir
Shaloks Sheikh Farid
Swaiyyae Mahala 5
Swaiyyae in Praise of Gurus
Shaloks in Addition To Vaars
Shalok Ninth Mehl
Mundavanee Mehl 5
ਰਾਗ ਮਾਲਾ, Raag Maalaa
What's new
New posts
New media
New media comments
New resources
Latest activity
Videos
New media
New comments
Library
Latest reviews
Donate
Log in
Register
What's new
New posts
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Welcome to all New Sikh Philosophy Network Forums!
Explore Sikh Sikhi Sikhism...
Sign up
Log in
Discussions
Sikh Sikhi Sikhism
Ashamed To Be Sikh
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Chaan Pardesi" data-source="post: 136084" data-attributes="member: 7047"><p>"W,tfw.says <FTWWHY a text p there. in says it what understand actually and Koran, the of majority Bible, portion significant read have up? them picks who anyone by readable are scared religion?s other that is < I>Why is it that other religion's scared text are actually readable by anyone who picks them up? I have read a significant portion of the Bible, and majority of the Koran, and actually understand what it says in there". </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Your problem, W.FTW is very much like... you just do not understand religion or perhaps like it very much to become gullible with what lies on the other side.The saying the pasture is not always green on the other side is very much your state of mind, from what I have understood.The exception being YOU do believe it is green just by seeing!!</p><p> </p><p>As a student of religion that you say you are, it looks more like you are a man scrabbling to put a frock on, when you should be putting the pants on!</p><p> </p><p>In the name of science and religion you appear to have learnt a lot by stage manning visits to mosques and churches, while being oblivionly ignorant about your own.But you have with no less preposteriousity , then suggested as you are now an authority on other religions, that you beliitle Sikhism.You then tried to make your misbeliefs near reverential, so as to make some people take the unfounded seriously.As we live in an age, inclined to believe everything science says even when it flies in the face of common sense and the practical Guru Granth sahib, you have used science to demote the values of Sikhism.But science is also not complete, as with the bumble bee concept!But Gurbani is.</p><p> </p><p>However, I am NOT convinced of you, and your motives neither, I believe, you have the acceptable real knowledge and understanding of Sikhism as you have attempted to portay and lead us to believe.Therefore, I make no apologies, that some the terms I have used are deliberately hard , and hit hard, as I think, you deserve that.</p><p> </p><p>I will simply ask you one question based upon your acclaimed knowldge of the Koran etc, which you have understood largely or in the majority.</p><p> </p><p>I will point out that as a student of religion, you have either deliberately or with a certain pre-reasonning omitted to say,[ based on the scientific evidence] ...that the koran was written 80 years AFTER Mohamad's death.While the bible even based on the old testament was written more than 90 years after Christ's. </p><p> </p><p>I see no scientific evidence presented by you to suggest that the writers of the koran and bible indeed wrote exactly what was said by Christ or Mohamad either.How did you accept that so wilfully?For logic's sake, your argument is faulty to begin with, as you use two different standards.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Issues are forgotten and twisted within a year,and by the time it reaches the 5th person, but how after at last 80 years the words in the Koran and Bible can remain the same?There is no record that anything was written down during the lives of Mohamad and Christ, apart from the ten commandments.There is no record of such documents existing.</p><p> </p><p>By making significant such omissions I smell clearly an intent and purpose to show "Sikhism to be ashamed of" deliberately by you.</p><p> </p><p>Now, my one question to you...How did you read the Koran and in what language?Arabic?You must have read the Bible in English, what stops you reading and understanding the Gurbani in English?</p><p> </p><p>By your own admission , it appears you have NOT read the Guru Granth sahib, then how did you manage to compare the Guru Granth sahib then to the koran and bible or the tohra?As I see, there is a motive for your own embarrasment.Perhaps lack of self confidence and esteem?It certainly appears your intent was create a controversy,harmful to Sikhism,but nothing more.I question your claim to be a student of religion; and say you are a very poor student indeed; and not one in a position to write skillfully upon religion in a truly comparative manner.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>At this point, may, I point out that the Guru Granth sahib was dictated and written by followers and scribes of the Gurus as the Gurus spoke the messages of God.NOT after and NOT before.Neither ANY of the shabads can be changed for as long long as the world lives on.</p><p> </p><p>If you are seeking scientific evidence, I dont think the battle of Karbala or the crusades provided that either.If they do then it is the same plaque placed years later.The plaques that you appear to condemn as regards to Sikhism.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>I think you have misconeceptions about the claim of 5000 fighting a single person.Nowhere it states that.What it says is that the Guru created a magnificience of a persona who was able to face 125,000 mentally, spiritually and challenge that. That also does not say it was a certain victory, but certain death more like.</p><p> </p><p>THe SIKH history, is for real, much of it written by its advesaries like Moghuls and THEIR writers, who were Mohamadans and much more by the hindu writers, who many a time reluctantly had to acknowledge trhe bravery and greatness and steadfast spirituality of the Sikhs and their religion.That speaks for itself.Even Nadir Shah after being harrased by the minority Sikh bands admitted that the day is not far off when they will rule supreme both spiritually and the land in the face of hardship and tyranny.That is itself is the icing in the cake.It does NOT need scientific rationale as it is a written record.</p><p> </p><p>To claim that much of the Sikh teachings are related to history in itself is mirroring the lack of insight and understanding about the Sikh religion.To totally pull blinders over eyes regards its spiritual aspects and family life is clear evidence of a biased mind and thinking.But unlike others, Sikhs have cherished and preserved in oral tradition much of their history.That is not wrong , but very much like fertiliser to the younger generations, although sometimes can be slightly distorted by individuals, just as yiou have attempted.</p><p> </p><p>Of course there are questions asked and challenges offered just like any other religion.Sikhs have the capacity to respond and answer and change within the confines of the Gurbani and set precedents, unlike Christianity that has no boundaries or islam that breaks every decent boundary in its quest to bring allah out of Mecca!Sikhism is not curtailed by such boundaries nor fuelled with venom of hatred.The concept of it's langger institution is evident enough of that value.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>As a student of religion, and with an intent, I see clearly you have not subjected your views entirely to study of comparative religions, but also mixed and have confused yourself with behaviourial sciences, cultural traits and mentallity related to lack of education and understanding that is prevalent among Sikhs with regard to their own and have tried to present that has the 'faults' of the Sikh religion.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>How very far from honesty and home truth, have you ventured exposes the real understanding of a supposedly student of religion!</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>The mish mesh of negative points that have been aired by you have absolutely NOTHING to do with Sikhism.They are traits of behaviours prevalent among people of any society and religion.</p><p> </p><p>Such exist in among other religions perhaps to a greater degree,for example the abuses of women and children within Christianity, the blind bombings and beheadings among the muslims and against the so called kaffirs......Sikhism for its share has some of those who make and break and misrepresent their own rules as they go along, but that has nothing absolutely to do with the proper teachings and Gurbani; as you seem to have presented coyly.neither Sikhism can be counted as an extremist faith.</p><p> </p><p>Finally, let me share about myself.I was born and bred in a muslim country and a state where muslims were predominant.I have been to Mosques many times,and shared often in their celebrations, when they were not so extremely brainwashed.</p><p> </p><p>I went all my life to a Christian Missionary school , where I not only attended the church regularly, but also twice completed an Emmaus Bible Course with 100%.Many of my friends were Buddhist and Hindus,Taoists, and Bahais and perhaps animist as well, among Muslims and Christians.</p><p> </p><p>I was the only Sikh in my last two years of school.I fluently speak more than 10 languages including Tamil,Thai and Chinese.I read and write about five including Punjabi.I Must say, no other religion impressed me more than Sikhism.I could have been any other by choice, I choose to be a Sikh. </p><p> </p><p>I did not learn about Islam hinduism or christianity or the other religions by stage manning and visiting mosques or churches , Pagodas,but by growing up among them, while understanding them, I also had the good fortunate to learn about my own.</p><p> </p><p>I have travelled to Iran, Pakistan, Turkey and many other countries and I believe I am quite an authority on these religions as much I know my own,and greatfully I am PROUD and glad to be a Sikh.</p><p> </p><p>The fact that you have disappeared, explains it all.It also reminds me about the Nutty Professor!But I believe it is too facile a tag.I would say students such as you are dangerous-dangerous in hiding the true agenda and dangerous because the thinking that you are advancing would be a disaster for not only Sikhism, but any decent level headed Muslim, Christian and Hindu and their religions.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chaan Pardesi, post: 136084, member: 7047"] "W,tfw.says <FTWWHY a text p there. in says it what understand actually and Koran, the of majority Bible, portion significant read have up? them picks who anyone by readable are scared religion?s other that is < I>Why is it that other religion's scared text are actually readable by anyone who picks them up? I have read a significant portion of the Bible, and majority of the Koran, and actually understand what it says in there". Your problem, W.FTW is very much like... you just do not understand religion or perhaps like it very much to become gullible with what lies on the other side.The saying the pasture is not always green on the other side is very much your state of mind, from what I have understood.The exception being YOU do believe it is green just by seeing!! As a student of religion that you say you are, it looks more like you are a man scrabbling to put a frock on, when you should be putting the pants on! In the name of science and religion you appear to have learnt a lot by stage manning visits to mosques and churches, while being oblivionly ignorant about your own.But you have with no less preposteriousity , then suggested as you are now an authority on other religions, that you beliitle Sikhism.You then tried to make your misbeliefs near reverential, so as to make some people take the unfounded seriously.As we live in an age, inclined to believe everything science says even when it flies in the face of common sense and the practical Guru Granth sahib, you have used science to demote the values of Sikhism.But science is also not complete, as with the bumble bee concept!But Gurbani is. However, I am NOT convinced of you, and your motives neither, I believe, you have the acceptable real knowledge and understanding of Sikhism as you have attempted to portay and lead us to believe.Therefore, I make no apologies, that some the terms I have used are deliberately hard , and hit hard, as I think, you deserve that. I will simply ask you one question based upon your acclaimed knowldge of the Koran etc, which you have understood largely or in the majority. I will point out that as a student of religion, you have either deliberately or with a certain pre-reasonning omitted to say,[ based on the scientific evidence] ...that the koran was written 80 years AFTER Mohamad's death.While the bible even based on the old testament was written more than 90 years after Christ's. I see no scientific evidence presented by you to suggest that the writers of the koran and bible indeed wrote exactly what was said by Christ or Mohamad either.How did you accept that so wilfully?For logic's sake, your argument is faulty to begin with, as you use two different standards. Issues are forgotten and twisted within a year,and by the time it reaches the 5th person, but how after at last 80 years the words in the Koran and Bible can remain the same?There is no record that anything was written down during the lives of Mohamad and Christ, apart from the ten commandments.There is no record of such documents existing. By making significant such omissions I smell clearly an intent and purpose to show "Sikhism to be ashamed of" deliberately by you. Now, my one question to you...How did you read the Koran and in what language?Arabic?You must have read the Bible in English, what stops you reading and understanding the Gurbani in English? By your own admission , it appears you have NOT read the Guru Granth sahib, then how did you manage to compare the Guru Granth sahib then to the koran and bible or the tohra?As I see, there is a motive for your own embarrasment.Perhaps lack of self confidence and esteem?It certainly appears your intent was create a controversy,harmful to Sikhism,but nothing more.I question your claim to be a student of religion; and say you are a very poor student indeed; and not one in a position to write skillfully upon religion in a truly comparative manner. At this point, may, I point out that the Guru Granth sahib was dictated and written by followers and scribes of the Gurus as the Gurus spoke the messages of God.NOT after and NOT before.Neither ANY of the shabads can be changed for as long long as the world lives on. If you are seeking scientific evidence, I dont think the battle of Karbala or the crusades provided that either.If they do then it is the same plaque placed years later.The plaques that you appear to condemn as regards to Sikhism. I think you have misconeceptions about the claim of 5000 fighting a single person.Nowhere it states that.What it says is that the Guru created a magnificience of a persona who was able to face 125,000 mentally, spiritually and challenge that. That also does not say it was a certain victory, but certain death more like. THe SIKH history, is for real, much of it written by its advesaries like Moghuls and THEIR writers, who were Mohamadans and much more by the hindu writers, who many a time reluctantly had to acknowledge trhe bravery and greatness and steadfast spirituality of the Sikhs and their religion.That speaks for itself.Even Nadir Shah after being harrased by the minority Sikh bands admitted that the day is not far off when they will rule supreme both spiritually and the land in the face of hardship and tyranny.That is itself is the icing in the cake.It does NOT need scientific rationale as it is a written record. To claim that much of the Sikh teachings are related to history in itself is mirroring the lack of insight and understanding about the Sikh religion.To totally pull blinders over eyes regards its spiritual aspects and family life is clear evidence of a biased mind and thinking.But unlike others, Sikhs have cherished and preserved in oral tradition much of their history.That is not wrong , but very much like fertiliser to the younger generations, although sometimes can be slightly distorted by individuals, just as yiou have attempted. Of course there are questions asked and challenges offered just like any other religion.Sikhs have the capacity to respond and answer and change within the confines of the Gurbani and set precedents, unlike Christianity that has no boundaries or islam that breaks every decent boundary in its quest to bring allah out of Mecca!Sikhism is not curtailed by such boundaries nor fuelled with venom of hatred.The concept of it's langger institution is evident enough of that value. As a student of religion, and with an intent, I see clearly you have not subjected your views entirely to study of comparative religions, but also mixed and have confused yourself with behaviourial sciences, cultural traits and mentallity related to lack of education and understanding that is prevalent among Sikhs with regard to their own and have tried to present that has the 'faults' of the Sikh religion. How very far from honesty and home truth, have you ventured exposes the real understanding of a supposedly student of religion! The mish mesh of negative points that have been aired by you have absolutely NOTHING to do with Sikhism.They are traits of behaviours prevalent among people of any society and religion. Such exist in among other religions perhaps to a greater degree,for example the abuses of women and children within Christianity, the blind bombings and beheadings among the muslims and against the so called kaffirs......Sikhism for its share has some of those who make and break and misrepresent their own rules as they go along, but that has nothing absolutely to do with the proper teachings and Gurbani; as you seem to have presented coyly.neither Sikhism can be counted as an extremist faith. Finally, let me share about myself.I was born and bred in a muslim country and a state where muslims were predominant.I have been to Mosques many times,and shared often in their celebrations, when they were not so extremely brainwashed. I went all my life to a Christian Missionary school , where I not only attended the church regularly, but also twice completed an Emmaus Bible Course with 100%.Many of my friends were Buddhist and Hindus,Taoists, and Bahais and perhaps animist as well, among Muslims and Christians. I was the only Sikh in my last two years of school.I fluently speak more than 10 languages including Tamil,Thai and Chinese.I read and write about five including Punjabi.I Must say, no other religion impressed me more than Sikhism.I could have been any other by choice, I choose to be a Sikh. I did not learn about Islam hinduism or christianity or the other religions by stage manning and visiting mosques or churches , Pagodas,but by growing up among them, while understanding them, I also had the good fortunate to learn about my own. I have travelled to Iran, Pakistan, Turkey and many other countries and I believe I am quite an authority on these religions as much I know my own,and greatfully I am PROUD and glad to be a Sikh. The fact that you have disappeared, explains it all.It also reminds me about the Nutty Professor!But I believe it is too facile a tag.I would say students such as you are dangerous-dangerous in hiding the true agenda and dangerous because the thinking that you are advancing would be a disaster for not only Sikhism, but any decent level headed Muslim, Christian and Hindu and their religions. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Discussions
Sikh Sikhi Sikhism
Ashamed To Be Sikh
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
Accept
Learn more…
Top