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Are We God Fearing Or God Loving?
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<blockquote data-quote="Tejwant Singh" data-source="post: 215392" data-attributes="member: 138"><p>Kully ji,</p><p></p><p>Firstly and lastly, please do not address me with the prefix 'respected' as requested before. Thanks</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I do not think you understand much about what is written in this forum. Your responses show that.</p><p>This article was written 16 years ago when I had a discussion with my Christian friend who talked about how Christians are taught to be God-fearing and how this phrase has become the lexicon of all the religions. This was my perspective from Sikhi viewpoint.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Your above post proves your haste in responding before even understanding what is being said. You contradict yourself with the above as you often do. I have also explained in my response, that the verse Ishna ji had quoted about fear is about the fear of not knowing, not the fear of going to hell as in the Abrahamic religions and others including Hinduism.</p><p></p><p>Hence, it is not both as you claim as compared to other religions as mentioned in the article.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Commonsense. I hope I have not offended you.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes, it is. I have been evolving since I wrote the article, thanks to SGGS, our only Guru, in my perspective and understanding of Sikhi. I have learnt a lot more since which is the duty of every Sikh. I hope you have evolved too</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Please always write the page number when you quote from the SGGS. In this case, the Shabad is on page 25. Let me take the second Shabad first.</p><p></p><p>The two Shabads posted here are written in Tutki -Tercet form. It means the meaning lies in the 3 line stanza and have to be chanted and then understood in the same manner.</p><p>For more information about the poetic forms in the SGGS please check the following thread and add to it if you can.</p><p><a href="https://www.sikhphilosophy.net/threads/classification-of-poetry-in-sri-guru-granth-sahib.50080/" target="_blank">Classification Of Poetry In Sri Guru Granth Sahib</a></p><p></p><p>Firstly, the main message of the Shabad is in Rahao verse. The one you posted has nothing to do with fear, either good or bad.</p><p></p><p>In this Shabad, as a matter of fact, there are two Rahaos.</p><p>Ist Rahao is just one line.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>2nd Rahao has two lines-</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The second one shows the followers who were mainly Hindus and Muslims, how the light of knowledge can get rid of the darkness of fear/ignorance.</p><p></p><p>My understanding of the central idea of this Shabad is-</p><p>"Without the right sources, one cannot be resourceful"</p><p>In the literal sense, it may have also been meant for the Jewish people who celebrate Hannukah as a miracle where there was only very little oil left to light one lamp. You may google for more understanding of this Jewish tradition if you wish to.</p><p>Sikhi has no miracles.</p><p></p><p>What are the sources to become resourceful, a Sikh may ask as his/her learning process?</p><p>The answer is in the verse you quoted from the Shabad.</p><p>As Guru Nanak was talking to Hindus and Muslims of that time, he was using their language and their faith traditions and values. Both Hindus and Muslims believe in Hell and Heaven, unlike in Sikhi. So, the fear here is meant in the theological sense of Hinduism and Abrahamic religions where the fear is all bad. There is nothing good about it.</p><p>Guru Nanak is saying the same thing to them as he tells us. Learn, gain knowledge in order to overcome this fear factor.</p><p></p><p>Now if you go to the third verse, it has the misleading translation in English. We have often talked about the incorrect/misleading/distorted English translations of the SGGS, our only Guru. Please check them in the forum.</p><p></p><p><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%87%E0%A8%A4%E0%A9%81" target="_blank">ਇਤੁ </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A4%E0%A8%A8%E0%A8%BF" target="_blank">ਤਨਿ </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B2%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%97%E0%A9%88" target="_blank">ਲਾਗੈ </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AC%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%A3%E0%A9%80%E0%A8%86" target="_blank">ਬਾਣੀਆ </a>॥</p><p>Iṯ ṯan lāgai bāṇī▫ā.</p><p>This body is softened with the Word of the Guru's Bani;</p><p>ਬਾਣੀਆ = ਗੁਰੂ ਦੀ ਬਾਣੀ। ਲਾਗੈ = ਅਸਰ ਕਰੇ।੩।</p><p>(ਜਿਸ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਨੂੰ) ਇਸ ਸਰੀਰ ਵਿਚ ਗੁਰੂ ਦਾ ਉਪਦੇਸ਼ ਅਸਰ ਕਰਦਾ ਹੈ,</p><p></p><p><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A9%81%E0%A8%96%E0%A9%81" target="_blank">ਸੁਖੁ </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B9%E0%A9%8B%E0%A8%B5%E0%A9%88" target="_blank">ਹੋਵੈ </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A9%87%E0%A8%B5" target="_blank">ਸੇਵ </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%95%E0%A8%AE%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%A3%E0%A9%80%E0%A8%86" target="_blank">ਕਮਾਣੀਆ </a>॥</p><p>Sukẖ hovai sev kamāṇī▫ā.</p><p>you shall find peace, doing seva (selfless service).</p><p>(ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦੀ) ਸੇਵਾ ਕਰਨ ਨਾਲ (ਸਿਮਰਨ ਕਰਨ ਨਾਲ) ਉਸ ਨੂੰ ਆਤਮਕ ਆਨੰਦ ਮਿਲਦਾ ਹੈ,</p><p></p><p><strong><u><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%AD" target="_blank">ਸਭ </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A6%E0%A9%81%E0%A8%A8%E0%A9%80%E0%A8%86" target="_blank">ਦੁਨੀਆ </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%86%E0%A8%B5%E0%A8%A3" target="_blank">ਆਵਣ </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%9C%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%A3%E0%A9%80%E0%A8%86" target="_blank">ਜਾਣੀਆ </a>॥੩॥ </u></strong></p><p><strong><u>Sabẖ ḏunī▫ā āvaṇ jāṇī▫ā. ||3|| </u></strong></p><p><strong><u>All the world continues coming and going in reincarnation. ||3|| </u></strong></p><p></p><p><strong> The one in bold </strong>above means the normal life cycles of beings, not reincarnation.</p><p></p><p>Your attempt to highlight one-liners of the two Shabads is to prove the point of your argument rather than sharing your understanding of the message in the Shabads.</p><p></p><p>This one is on page 19, the first Shabad.</p><p>The central idea of this Shabad is again nothing to do with fear as you implied. I have also added Prof. Sahib Singh's understanding in Gurmukhi. I hope you read Gurmukhi.</p><p><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AE%E0%A8%A8" target="_blank">ਮਨ </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B0%E0%A9%87" target="_blank">ਰੇ </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%AC%E0%A8%A6%E0%A8%BF" target="_blank">ਸਬਦਿ </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A4%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%B9%E0%A9%81" target="_blank">ਤਰਹੁ </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%9A%E0%A8%BF%E0%A8%A4%E0%A9%81" target="_blank">ਚਿਤੁ </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B2%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%87" target="_blank">ਲਾਇ </a>॥</p><p>Man re sabaḏ ṯarahu cẖiṯ lā▫e.</p><p>O mind, swim across, by focusing your consciousness on the Shabad.</p><p>ਸਬਦਿ = (ਗੁਰੂ ਦੇ) ਸ਼ਬਦ ਵਿਚ।</p><p>ਹੇ (ਮੇਰੇ) ਮਨ! ਗੁਰੂ ਦੇ ਸ਼ਬਦ ਵਿਚ ਚਿੱਤ ਜੋੜ (ਤੇ ਇਸ ਤਰ੍ਹਾਂ ਸੰਸਾਰ-ਸਮੁੰਦਰ ਦੇ ਵਿਕਾਰਾਂ ਤੋਂ) ਪਾਰ ਲੰਘ।</p><p></p><p><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%9C%E0%A8%BF%E0%A8%A8%E0%A8%BF" target="_blank">ਜਿਨਿ </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%97%E0%A9%81%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%AE%E0%A9%81%E0%A8%96%E0%A8%BF" target="_blank">ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A8%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%AE%E0%A9%81" target="_blank">ਨਾਮੁ </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A8" target="_blank">ਨ </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AC%E0%A9%82%E0%A8%9D%E0%A8%BF%E0%A8%86" target="_blank">ਬੂਝਿਆ </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AE%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%BF" target="_blank">ਮਰਿ </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%9C%E0%A8%A8%E0%A8%AE%E0%A9%88" target="_blank">ਜਨਮੈ </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%86%E0%A8%B5%E0%A9%88" target="_blank">ਆਵੈ </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%9C%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%87" target="_blank">ਜਾਇ </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A5%A5%E0%A9%A7%E0%A5%A5" target="_blank">॥੧॥ </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%B9%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%89" target="_blank">ਰਹਾਉ </a>॥</p><p>Jin gurmukẖ nām na būjẖi▫ā mar janmai āvai jā▫e. ||1|| rahā▫o.</p><p>Those who do not become Gurmukh do not understand the Naam; they die, and continue coming and going in reincarnation. ||1||Pause||</p><p>ਜਿਨਿ = ਜਿਸ (ਮਨੁੱਖ) ਨੇ। ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ = ਗੁਰੂ ਦੀ ਸਰਨ ਪੈ ਕੇ।੧।</p><p>ਜਿਸ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਨੇ ਗੁਰੂ ਦੀ ਸਰਨ ਪੈ ਕੇ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦੇ ਨਾਮ ਨਾਲ ਸਾਂਝ ਨਹੀਂ ਪਾਈ, ਉਹ ਮਰਦਾ ਹੈ ਜੰਮਦਾ ਹੈ ਜੰਮਦਾ ਹੈ ਮਰਦਾ ਹੈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ॥</p><p></p><p>In the second line of the Rahao verse, it clearly shows that there is no reincarnation for a Gurmukh unlike your claim of reincarnation in Sikhi. SGGS, our only Guru, explains the absence of the belief of reincarnation in Sikhi many a time.</p><p></p><p>Here is your one-liner about fear <strong>in bold</strong>. If you are able to read Gurmukhi, please check what Prof. Sahib Singh is talking about 'fear'.</p><p></p><p><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A4%E0%A8%A8%E0%A9%81" target="_blank">ਤਨੁ </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A9%82%E0%A8%9A%E0%A8%BE" target="_blank">ਸੂਚਾ </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A9%8B" target="_blank">ਸੋ </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%86%E0%A8%96%E0%A9%80%E0%A8%90" target="_blank">ਆਖੀਐ </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%9C%E0%A8%BF%E0%A8%B8%E0%A9%81" target="_blank">ਜਿਸੁ </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AE%E0%A8%B9%E0%A8%BF" target="_blank">ਮਹਿ </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%9A%E0%A8%BE" target="_blank">ਸਾਚਾ </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A8%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%89" target="_blank">ਨਾਉ </a>॥</p><p>Ŧan sūcẖā so ākẖī▫ai jis mėh sācẖā nā▫o.</p><p>That body is said to be pure, in which the True Name abides.</p><p>ਸੂਚਾ = ਸੁੱਚਾ, ਪਵਿੱਤਰ।</p><p>ਜਿਸ ਸਰੀਰ ਵਿਚ ਸਦਾ-ਥਿਰ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ ਟਿਕਿਆ ਰਹਿੰਦਾ ਹੈ ਉਹੀ ਸਰੀਰ ਪਵਿਤ੍ਰ ਅਖਵਾ ਸਕਦਾ ਹੈ।</p><p></p><p><strong><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AD%E0%A9%88" target="_blank">ਭੈ </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%9A%E0%A8%BF" target="_blank">ਸਚਿ </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%A4%E0%A9%80" target="_blank">ਰਾਤੀ </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A6%E0%A9%87%E0%A8%B9%E0%A9%81%E0%A8%B0%E0%A9%80" target="_blank">ਦੇਹੁਰੀ </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%9C%E0%A8%BF%E0%A8%B9%E0%A8%B5%E0%A8%BE" target="_blank">ਜਿਹਵਾ </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%9A%E0%A9%81" target="_blank">ਸਚੁ </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A9%81%E0%A8%86%E0%A8%89" target="_blank">ਸੁਆਉ </a>॥</strong></p><p><strong>Bẖai sacẖ rāṯī ḏehurī jihvā sacẖ su▫ā▫o.</strong></p><p><strong>One whose body is imbued with the Fear of the True One, and whose tongue savors Truthfulness,</strong></p><p><strong>ਭੈ = ਨਿਰਮਲ ਡਰ ਵਿਚ, ਅਦਬ ਵਿਚ। ਸਚਿ = ਸਦਾ-ਥਿਰ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦੀ ਯਾਦ ਵਿਚ। ਰਾਤੀ = ਰੰਗੀ ਹੋਈ। ਦੇਹੁਰੀ = ਸੁੰਦਰ ਦੇਹੀ। ਸਚੁ = ਸਦਾ-ਥਿਰ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ। ਸੁਆਉ = ਸੁਆਰਥ, ਮਨੋਰਥ।</strong></p><p><strong>ਜੇਹੜਾ ਸੁੰਦਰ ਸਰੀਰ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦੇ ਅਦਬ-ਪਿਆਰ ਵਿਚ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦੀ ਯਾਦ ਵਿਚ ਰੰਗਿਆ ਰਹਿੰਦਾ ਹੈ, ਜਿਸ ਦੀ ਜੀਭ ਨੂੰ ਸਿਮਰਨ ਹੀ (ਆਪਣੀ ਹਸਤੀ ਦਾ) ਅਸਲ ਮਨੋਰਥ ਜਾਪਦਾ ਹੈ,</strong></p><p></p><p><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%9A%E0%A9%80" target="_blank">ਸਚੀ </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A8%E0%A8%A6%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%BF" target="_blank">ਨਦਰਿ </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A8%E0%A8%BF%E0%A8%B9%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%B2%E0%A9%80%E0%A8%90" target="_blank">ਨਿਹਾਲੀਐ </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AC%E0%A8%B9%E0%A9%81%E0%A9%9C%E0%A8%BF" target="_blank">ਬਹੁੜਿ </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A8" target="_blank">ਨ </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AA%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%B5%E0%A9%88" target="_blank">ਪਾਵੈ </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A4%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%89" target="_blank">ਤਾਉ </a>॥੨॥</p><p>Sacẖī naḏar nihālī▫ai bahuṛ na pāvai ṯā▫o. ||2||</p><p>is brought to ecstasy by the True Lord's Glance of Grace. That person does not have to go through the fire of the womb again. ||2||</p><p>ਨਿਹਾਲੀਐ = ਤੱਕਿਆ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ। ਨ ਪਾਵੈ ਤਾਉ = ਤਾਅ ਨਹੀਂ ਸਹਾਰਦਾ।੨।</p><p>ਜਿਸ ਉਤੇ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦੀ ਮਿਹਰ ਦੀ ਨਜ਼ਰ ਹੁੰਦੀ ਹੈ, ਉਹ ਮੁੜ ਮੁੜ (ਚੌਰਾਸੀ ਦੇ ਗੇੜ ਦੀ ਕੁਠਾਲੀ ਵਿਚ ਪੈ ਕੇ) ਤਾਅ (ਸੇਕ) ਨਹੀਂ ਸਹਾਰਦਾ ॥੨</p><p></p><p>You picked and chose 1/3rd of the Tutki/tercet stanza rather than all 3 lines which explain the meaning, fully in an interconnected manner. All 3 lines together complete one single thought.</p><p>Why did you choose just the 1/3 of the thought of our Guru, if I may ask?</p><p>In fact, the last line rejects your non-Sikhi belief in Reincarnation. All the Shabads you posted do the same.</p><p></p><p>And then your hasty response,</p><p></p><p></p><p>Not from the Sikhi point of view as compared to other religions as is mentioned in the Shabads you quoted.</p><p></p><p>Thanks</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tejwant Singh, post: 215392, member: 138"] Kully ji, Firstly and lastly, please do not address me with the prefix 'respected' as requested before. Thanks I do not think you understand much about what is written in this forum. Your responses show that. This article was written 16 years ago when I had a discussion with my Christian friend who talked about how Christians are taught to be God-fearing and how this phrase has become the lexicon of all the religions. This was my perspective from Sikhi viewpoint. Your above post proves your haste in responding before even understanding what is being said. You contradict yourself with the above as you often do. I have also explained in my response, that the verse Ishna ji had quoted about fear is about the fear of not knowing, not the fear of going to hell as in the Abrahamic religions and others including Hinduism. Hence, it is not both as you claim as compared to other religions as mentioned in the article. Commonsense. I hope I have not offended you. Yes, it is. I have been evolving since I wrote the article, thanks to SGGS, our only Guru, in my perspective and understanding of Sikhi. I have learnt a lot more since which is the duty of every Sikh. I hope you have evolved too Please always write the page number when you quote from the SGGS. In this case, the Shabad is on page 25. Let me take the second Shabad first. The two Shabads posted here are written in Tutki -Tercet form. It means the meaning lies in the 3 line stanza and have to be chanted and then understood in the same manner. For more information about the poetic forms in the SGGS please check the following thread and add to it if you can. [URL='https://www.sikhphilosophy.net/threads/classification-of-poetry-in-sri-guru-granth-sahib.50080/']Classification Of Poetry In Sri Guru Granth Sahib[/URL] Firstly, the main message of the Shabad is in Rahao verse. The one you posted has nothing to do with fear, either good or bad. In this Shabad, as a matter of fact, there are two Rahaos. Ist Rahao is just one line. 2nd Rahao has two lines- The second one shows the followers who were mainly Hindus and Muslims, how the light of knowledge can get rid of the darkness of fear/ignorance. My understanding of the central idea of this Shabad is- "Without the right sources, one cannot be resourceful" In the literal sense, it may have also been meant for the Jewish people who celebrate Hannukah as a miracle where there was only very little oil left to light one lamp. You may google for more understanding of this Jewish tradition if you wish to. Sikhi has no miracles. What are the sources to become resourceful, a Sikh may ask as his/her learning process? The answer is in the verse you quoted from the Shabad. As Guru Nanak was talking to Hindus and Muslims of that time, he was using their language and their faith traditions and values. Both Hindus and Muslims believe in Hell and Heaven, unlike in Sikhi. So, the fear here is meant in the theological sense of Hinduism and Abrahamic religions where the fear is all bad. There is nothing good about it. Guru Nanak is saying the same thing to them as he tells us. Learn, gain knowledge in order to overcome this fear factor. Now if you go to the third verse, it has the misleading translation in English. We have often talked about the incorrect/misleading/distorted English translations of the SGGS, our only Guru. Please check them in the forum. [URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%87%E0%A8%A4%E0%A9%81']ਇਤੁ [/URL][URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A4%E0%A8%A8%E0%A8%BF']ਤਨਿ [/URL][URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B2%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%97%E0%A9%88']ਲਾਗੈ [/URL][URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AC%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%A3%E0%A9%80%E0%A8%86']ਬਾਣੀਆ [/URL]॥ Iṯ ṯan lāgai bāṇī▫ā. This body is softened with the Word of the Guru's Bani; ਬਾਣੀਆ = ਗੁਰੂ ਦੀ ਬਾਣੀ। ਲਾਗੈ = ਅਸਰ ਕਰੇ।੩। (ਜਿਸ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਨੂੰ) ਇਸ ਸਰੀਰ ਵਿਚ ਗੁਰੂ ਦਾ ਉਪਦੇਸ਼ ਅਸਰ ਕਰਦਾ ਹੈ, [URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A9%81%E0%A8%96%E0%A9%81']ਸੁਖੁ [/URL][URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B9%E0%A9%8B%E0%A8%B5%E0%A9%88']ਹੋਵੈ [/URL][URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A9%87%E0%A8%B5']ਸੇਵ [/URL][URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%95%E0%A8%AE%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%A3%E0%A9%80%E0%A8%86']ਕਮਾਣੀਆ [/URL]॥ Sukẖ hovai sev kamāṇī▫ā. you shall find peace, doing seva (selfless service). (ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦੀ) ਸੇਵਾ ਕਰਨ ਨਾਲ (ਸਿਮਰਨ ਕਰਨ ਨਾਲ) ਉਸ ਨੂੰ ਆਤਮਕ ਆਨੰਦ ਮਿਲਦਾ ਹੈ, [B][U][URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%AD']ਸਭ [/URL][URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A6%E0%A9%81%E0%A8%A8%E0%A9%80%E0%A8%86']ਦੁਨੀਆ [/URL][URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%86%E0%A8%B5%E0%A8%A3']ਆਵਣ [/URL][URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%9C%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%A3%E0%A9%80%E0%A8%86']ਜਾਣੀਆ [/URL]॥੩॥ Sabẖ ḏunī▫ā āvaṇ jāṇī▫ā. ||3|| All the world continues coming and going in reincarnation. ||3|| [/U][/B] [B] The one in bold [/B]above means the normal life cycles of beings, not reincarnation. Your attempt to highlight one-liners of the two Shabads is to prove the point of your argument rather than sharing your understanding of the message in the Shabads. This one is on page 19, the first Shabad. The central idea of this Shabad is again nothing to do with fear as you implied. I have also added Prof. Sahib Singh's understanding in Gurmukhi. I hope you read Gurmukhi. [URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AE%E0%A8%A8']ਮਨ [/URL][URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B0%E0%A9%87']ਰੇ [/URL][URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%AC%E0%A8%A6%E0%A8%BF']ਸਬਦਿ [/URL][URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A4%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%B9%E0%A9%81']ਤਰਹੁ [/URL][URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%9A%E0%A8%BF%E0%A8%A4%E0%A9%81']ਚਿਤੁ [/URL][URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B2%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%87']ਲਾਇ [/URL]॥ Man re sabaḏ ṯarahu cẖiṯ lā▫e. O mind, swim across, by focusing your consciousness on the Shabad. ਸਬਦਿ = (ਗੁਰੂ ਦੇ) ਸ਼ਬਦ ਵਿਚ। ਹੇ (ਮੇਰੇ) ਮਨ! ਗੁਰੂ ਦੇ ਸ਼ਬਦ ਵਿਚ ਚਿੱਤ ਜੋੜ (ਤੇ ਇਸ ਤਰ੍ਹਾਂ ਸੰਸਾਰ-ਸਮੁੰਦਰ ਦੇ ਵਿਕਾਰਾਂ ਤੋਂ) ਪਾਰ ਲੰਘ। [URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%9C%E0%A8%BF%E0%A8%A8%E0%A8%BF']ਜਿਨਿ [/URL][URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%97%E0%A9%81%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%AE%E0%A9%81%E0%A8%96%E0%A8%BF']ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ [/URL][URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A8%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%AE%E0%A9%81']ਨਾਮੁ [/URL][URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A8']ਨ [/URL][URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AC%E0%A9%82%E0%A8%9D%E0%A8%BF%E0%A8%86']ਬੂਝਿਆ [/URL][URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AE%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%BF']ਮਰਿ [/URL][URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%9C%E0%A8%A8%E0%A8%AE%E0%A9%88']ਜਨਮੈ [/URL][URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%86%E0%A8%B5%E0%A9%88']ਆਵੈ [/URL][URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%9C%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%87']ਜਾਇ [/URL][URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A5%A5%E0%A9%A7%E0%A5%A5']॥੧॥ [/URL][URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%B9%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%89']ਰਹਾਉ [/URL]॥ Jin gurmukẖ nām na būjẖi▫ā mar janmai āvai jā▫e. ||1|| rahā▫o. Those who do not become Gurmukh do not understand the Naam; they die, and continue coming and going in reincarnation. ||1||Pause|| ਜਿਨਿ = ਜਿਸ (ਮਨੁੱਖ) ਨੇ। ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ = ਗੁਰੂ ਦੀ ਸਰਨ ਪੈ ਕੇ।੧। ਜਿਸ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਨੇ ਗੁਰੂ ਦੀ ਸਰਨ ਪੈ ਕੇ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦੇ ਨਾਮ ਨਾਲ ਸਾਂਝ ਨਹੀਂ ਪਾਈ, ਉਹ ਮਰਦਾ ਹੈ ਜੰਮਦਾ ਹੈ ਜੰਮਦਾ ਹੈ ਮਰਦਾ ਹੈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ॥ In the second line of the Rahao verse, it clearly shows that there is no reincarnation for a Gurmukh unlike your claim of reincarnation in Sikhi. SGGS, our only Guru, explains the absence of the belief of reincarnation in Sikhi many a time. Here is your one-liner about fear [B]in bold[/B]. If you are able to read Gurmukhi, please check what Prof. Sahib Singh is talking about 'fear'. [URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A4%E0%A8%A8%E0%A9%81']ਤਨੁ [/URL][URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A9%82%E0%A8%9A%E0%A8%BE']ਸੂਚਾ [/URL][URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A9%8B']ਸੋ [/URL][URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%86%E0%A8%96%E0%A9%80%E0%A8%90']ਆਖੀਐ [/URL][URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%9C%E0%A8%BF%E0%A8%B8%E0%A9%81']ਜਿਸੁ [/URL][URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AE%E0%A8%B9%E0%A8%BF']ਮਹਿ [/URL][URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%9A%E0%A8%BE']ਸਾਚਾ [/URL][URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A8%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%89']ਨਾਉ [/URL]॥ Ŧan sūcẖā so ākẖī▫ai jis mėh sācẖā nā▫o. That body is said to be pure, in which the True Name abides. ਸੂਚਾ = ਸੁੱਚਾ, ਪਵਿੱਤਰ। ਜਿਸ ਸਰੀਰ ਵਿਚ ਸਦਾ-ਥਿਰ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ ਟਿਕਿਆ ਰਹਿੰਦਾ ਹੈ ਉਹੀ ਸਰੀਰ ਪਵਿਤ੍ਰ ਅਖਵਾ ਸਕਦਾ ਹੈ। [B][URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AD%E0%A9%88']ਭੈ [/URL][URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%9A%E0%A8%BF']ਸਚਿ [/URL][URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%A4%E0%A9%80']ਰਾਤੀ [/URL][URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A6%E0%A9%87%E0%A8%B9%E0%A9%81%E0%A8%B0%E0%A9%80']ਦੇਹੁਰੀ [/URL][URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%9C%E0%A8%BF%E0%A8%B9%E0%A8%B5%E0%A8%BE']ਜਿਹਵਾ [/URL][URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%9A%E0%A9%81']ਸਚੁ [/URL][URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A9%81%E0%A8%86%E0%A8%89']ਸੁਆਉ [/URL]॥ Bẖai sacẖ rāṯī ḏehurī jihvā sacẖ su▫ā▫o. One whose body is imbued with the Fear of the True One, and whose tongue savors Truthfulness, ਭੈ = ਨਿਰਮਲ ਡਰ ਵਿਚ, ਅਦਬ ਵਿਚ। ਸਚਿ = ਸਦਾ-ਥਿਰ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦੀ ਯਾਦ ਵਿਚ। ਰਾਤੀ = ਰੰਗੀ ਹੋਈ। ਦੇਹੁਰੀ = ਸੁੰਦਰ ਦੇਹੀ। ਸਚੁ = ਸਦਾ-ਥਿਰ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ। ਸੁਆਉ = ਸੁਆਰਥ, ਮਨੋਰਥ। ਜੇਹੜਾ ਸੁੰਦਰ ਸਰੀਰ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦੇ ਅਦਬ-ਪਿਆਰ ਵਿਚ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦੀ ਯਾਦ ਵਿਚ ਰੰਗਿਆ ਰਹਿੰਦਾ ਹੈ, ਜਿਸ ਦੀ ਜੀਭ ਨੂੰ ਸਿਮਰਨ ਹੀ (ਆਪਣੀ ਹਸਤੀ ਦਾ) ਅਸਲ ਮਨੋਰਥ ਜਾਪਦਾ ਹੈ,[/B] [URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%9A%E0%A9%80']ਸਚੀ [/URL][URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A8%E0%A8%A6%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%BF']ਨਦਰਿ [/URL][URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A8%E0%A8%BF%E0%A8%B9%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%B2%E0%A9%80%E0%A8%90']ਨਿਹਾਲੀਐ [/URL][URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AC%E0%A8%B9%E0%A9%81%E0%A9%9C%E0%A8%BF']ਬਹੁੜਿ [/URL][URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A8']ਨ [/URL][URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AA%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%B5%E0%A9%88']ਪਾਵੈ [/URL][URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A4%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%89']ਤਾਉ [/URL]॥੨॥ Sacẖī naḏar nihālī▫ai bahuṛ na pāvai ṯā▫o. ||2|| is brought to ecstasy by the True Lord's Glance of Grace. That person does not have to go through the fire of the womb again. ||2|| ਨਿਹਾਲੀਐ = ਤੱਕਿਆ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ। ਨ ਪਾਵੈ ਤਾਉ = ਤਾਅ ਨਹੀਂ ਸਹਾਰਦਾ।੨। ਜਿਸ ਉਤੇ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦੀ ਮਿਹਰ ਦੀ ਨਜ਼ਰ ਹੁੰਦੀ ਹੈ, ਉਹ ਮੁੜ ਮੁੜ (ਚੌਰਾਸੀ ਦੇ ਗੇੜ ਦੀ ਕੁਠਾਲੀ ਵਿਚ ਪੈ ਕੇ) ਤਾਅ (ਸੇਕ) ਨਹੀਂ ਸਹਾਰਦਾ ॥੨ You picked and chose 1/3rd of the Tutki/tercet stanza rather than all 3 lines which explain the meaning, fully in an interconnected manner. All 3 lines together complete one single thought. Why did you choose just the 1/3 of the thought of our Guru, if I may ask? In fact, the last line rejects your non-Sikhi belief in Reincarnation. All the Shabads you posted do the same. And then your hasty response, Not from the Sikhi point of view as compared to other religions as is mentioned in the Shabads you quoted. Thanks [/QUOTE]
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Are We God Fearing Or God Loving?
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