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Hard Talk
Bachittar Natak
Answers To The Issues Raised By Gyani Bhag Singh Ji On The Verses Onto Tenth Master
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<blockquote data-quote="vijaydeep Singh" data-source="post: 104215" data-attributes="member: 313"><p><strong>Re: Answers to the issues raised by Gyani Bhag Singh Ji on the verses unto Tenth Mast</strong></p><p></p><p>Gurfateh</p><p> Dusht Daman</p><p> </p><p> Well two chapters are wasted by writer about this but this word does not appears in Shri Dasham Granth Sahib Ji at all so das will not touch this at all as proof that writer has tried his level best to misguide readers by mixing Guru Pratap Suraj Granth’s thing with that of Shri Dasham Granth Sahib Ji.</p><p> </p><p> He further tells lie about Charitropakhyan 108.</p><p> </p><p> He thens talks of this verse of Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.</p><p> <strong><span style="color: red">11</span></strong> Gond Saint Kabir</p><p></p><p></p><p><span style="color: #0066CC">(</span><span style="color: #0066CC"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">੮੭੨</span></span><span style="color: #0066CC">-</span><span style="color: #0066CC"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">੧੧</span></span><span style="color: #0066CC">, </span><span style="color: #0066CC"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਗੋਂਡ</span></span><span style="color: #0066CC">, </span><span style="color: #0066CC"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਭਗਤ</span></span> <span style="color: #0066CC"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਕਬੀਰ</span></span> <span style="color: #0066CC"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਜੀ</span></span><span style="color: #0066CC">)</span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਜੈਸੇ</span> <strong><span style="color: red"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਮਾਤ</span></span></strong> <strong><span style="color: red"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਪਿਤਾ</span></span></strong> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਬਿਨੁ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਬਾਲੁ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਨ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਹੋਈ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">॥</span></p><p><span style="color: #4EFF21">jaisae maath pithaa bin baal n hoee ||</span></p><p>Without a mother or father there is no child;</p><p> <p style="text-align: center"><p style="text-align: center"> </p> </p><p> <strong><span style="color: red">11</span></strong> Gond Saint Kabir</p><p></p><p></p><p><span style="color: #0066CC">(</span><span style="color: #0066CC"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">੮੭੨</span></span><span style="color: #0066CC">-</span><span style="color: #0066CC"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">੧੨</span></span><span style="color: #0066CC">, </span><span style="color: #0066CC"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਗੋਂਡ</span></span><span style="color: #0066CC">, </span><span style="color: #0066CC"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਭਗਤ</span></span> <span style="color: #0066CC"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਕਬੀਰ</span></span> <span style="color: #0066CC"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਜੀ</span></span><span style="color: #0066CC">)</span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਬਿੰਬ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਬਿਨਾ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਕੈਸੇ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਕਪਰੇ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਧੋਈ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">॥</span></p><p><span style="color: #4EFF21">binb binaa kaisae kaparae dhhoee ||</span></p><p>just so, without water, how can the clothes be washed?</p><p> <p style="text-align: center"><p style="text-align: center"> </p> </p><p> <strong><span style="color: red">12</span></strong> Gond Saint Kabir</p><p></p><p></p><p><span style="color: #0066CC">(</span><span style="color: #0066CC"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">੮੭੨</span></span><span style="color: #0066CC">-</span><span style="color: #0066CC"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">੧੨</span></span><span style="color: #0066CC">, </span><span style="color: #0066CC"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਗੋਂਡ</span></span><span style="color: #0066CC">, </span><span style="color: #0066CC"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਭਗਤ</span></span> <span style="color: #0066CC"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਕਬੀਰ</span></span> <span style="color: #0066CC"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਜੀ</span></span><span style="color: #0066CC">)</span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਘੋਰ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਬਿਨਾ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਕੈਸੇ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਅਸਵਾਰ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">॥</span></p><p><span style="color: #4EFF21">ghor binaa kaisae asavaar ||</span></p><p>Without a horse, how can there be a rider?</p><p> <p style="text-align: center"><p style="text-align: center"> </p> </p><p> <strong><span style="color: red">12</span></strong> Gond Saint Kabir</p><p></p><p></p><p><span style="color: #0066CC">(</span><span style="color: #0066CC"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">੮੭੨</span></span><span style="color: #0066CC">-</span><span style="color: #0066CC"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">੧੨</span></span><span style="color: #0066CC">, </span><span style="color: #0066CC"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਗੋਂਡ</span></span><span style="color: #0066CC">, </span><span style="color: #0066CC"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਭਗਤ</span></span> <span style="color: #0066CC"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਕਬੀਰ</span></span> <span style="color: #0066CC"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਜੀ</span></span><span style="color: #0066CC">)</span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਸਾਧੂ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਬਿਨੁ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਨਾਹੀ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਦਰਵਾਰ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">॥</span><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">੩</span><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">॥</span></p><p><span style="color: #4EFF21">saadhhoo bin naahee dharavaar ||3||</span></p><p>Without the Holy Saint, one cannot reach the Court of the Lord. ||3||</p><p> <p style="text-align: center"><p style="text-align: center"> </p> </p><p> (Ang 872)</p><p> </p><p> Here without mother or father child could not happen could be understood as could not survive. As in present day science in some organism ,just with single parent(mother from whose body part semen is developed and then fused with her egg) child is developed ,this thing is not allowed by law on humans.</p><p> </p><p><span style="color: #0066CC">(</span><span style="color: #0066CC"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">੪੮੯</span></span><span style="color: #0066CC">-</span><span style="color: #0066CC"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">੮</span></span><span style="color: #0066CC">, </span><span style="color: #0066CC"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਗੂਜਰੀ</span></span><span style="color: #0066CC">, </span><span style="color: #0066CC"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਮ</span></span> <span style="color: #0066CC"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">੧</span></span><span style="color: #0066CC">)</span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਗੂਜਰੀ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਮਹਲਾ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">੧</span> <span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">॥</span></p><p><span style="color: #4EFF21">goojaree mehalaa 1 ||</span></p><p>Goojaree, First Mehl:</p><p> <p style="text-align: center"><p style="text-align: center"> </p> </p><p> <strong><span style="color: red">8</span></strong> null null</p><p></p><p></p><p><span style="color: #0066CC">(</span><span style="color: #0066CC"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">੪੮੯</span></span><span style="color: #0066CC">-</span><span style="color: #0066CC"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">੮</span></span><span style="color: #0066CC">, </span><span style="color: #0066CC"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਗੂਜਰੀ</span></span><span style="color: #0066CC">, </span><span style="color: #0066CC"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਮ</span></span> <span style="color: #0066CC"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">੧</span></span><span style="color: #0066CC">)</span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਨਾਭਿ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਕਮਲ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਤੇ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਉਪਜੇ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਬੇਦ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਪੜਹਿ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਮੁਖਿ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਕੰਠਿ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਸਵਾਰਿ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">॥</span></p><p><span style="color: #4EFF21">naabh kamal thae brehamaa oupajae baedh parrehi mukh kanth savaar ||</span></p><p>From the lotus of Vishnu's navel,<strong><span style="color: red"> Brahma </span></strong>was born; He chanted the Vedas with a melodious voice. </p><p> (Ang 489)</p><p> This verse talks of a creation with out parents so is Vysa</p><p> </p><p></p><p><span style="color: #0066CC">(</span><span style="color: #0066CC"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">੧੩੦੯</span></span><span style="color: #0066CC">-</span><span style="color: #0066CC"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">੭</span></span><span style="color: #0066CC">, </span><span style="color: #0066CC"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਕਾਨੜਾ</span></span><span style="color: #0066CC">, </span><span style="color: #0066CC"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਮ</span></span> <span style="color: #0066CC"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">੪</span></span><span style="color: #0066CC">)</span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਬ੍ਰਹਮ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਕਮਲ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਪੁਤੁ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਮੀਨ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਬਿਆਸਾ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਤਪੁ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਤਾਪਨ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਪੂਜ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਕਰਾਵੈਗੋ</span> <span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">॥</span></p><p><span style="color: #4EFF21">breham kamal puth meen biaasaa thap thaapan pooj karaavaigo ||</span></p><p>Brahma, the son of the lotus, and<strong><span style="color: red"> Vyaas</span></strong>, the son of the fish, practiced austere penance and were worshipped. </p><p> (Ang 1309)</p><p> </p><p> So if Guru uses mythological examples from old text to explain something. Why cannot by unique Sikh way Guru could talk of similar example made by self to just the followers understand the thing better.</p><p> </p><p> So let us talk of these lines.</p><p> </p><p> Now I describe my story.</p><p> The way it come to me while I was concentrating on worship/devotion /austerity.</p><p> Where the pond/pit of ice/snow is mountain.</p><p> There peak of seven is located beautifully there.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="vijaydeep Singh, post: 104215, member: 313"] [b]Re: Answers to the issues raised by Gyani Bhag Singh Ji on the verses unto Tenth Mast[/b] Gurfateh Dusht Daman Well two chapters are wasted by writer about this but this word does not appears in Shri Dasham Granth Sahib Ji at all so das will not touch this at all as proof that writer has tried his level best to misguide readers by mixing Guru Pratap Suraj Granth’s thing with that of Shri Dasham Granth Sahib Ji. He further tells lie about Charitropakhyan 108. He thens talks of this verse of Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. [B][COLOR=red]11[/COLOR][/B] Gond Saint Kabir [COLOR=#0066CC]([/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC][FONT=Raavi]੮੭੨[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC]-[/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC][FONT=Raavi]੧੧[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC], [/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC][FONT=Raavi]ਗੋਂਡ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC], [/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC][FONT=Raavi]ਭਗਤ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC] [/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC][FONT=Raavi]ਕਬੀਰ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC] [/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC][FONT=Raavi]ਜੀ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC])[/COLOR] [FONT=Raavi]ਜੈਸੇ[/FONT][B][COLOR=red] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=red][FONT=Raavi]ਮਾਤ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=red] [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=red][FONT=Raavi]ਪਿਤਾ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=red] [/COLOR][/B][FONT=Raavi]ਬਿਨੁ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਬਾਲੁ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਨ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਹੋਈ[/FONT] [FONT=Mangal]॥[/FONT] [COLOR=#4EFF21]jaisae maath pithaa bin baal n hoee ||[/COLOR] Without a mother or father there is no child; [CENTER][CENTER] [/CENTER][/CENTER] [B][COLOR=red]11[/COLOR][/B] Gond Saint Kabir [COLOR=#0066CC]([/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC][FONT=Raavi]੮੭੨[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC]-[/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC][FONT=Raavi]੧੨[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC], [/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC][FONT=Raavi]ਗੋਂਡ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC], [/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC][FONT=Raavi]ਭਗਤ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC] [/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC][FONT=Raavi]ਕਬੀਰ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC] [/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC][FONT=Raavi]ਜੀ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC])[/COLOR] [FONT=Raavi]ਬਿੰਬ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਬਿਨਾ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਕੈਸੇ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਕਪਰੇ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਧੋਈ[/FONT] [FONT=Mangal]॥[/FONT] [COLOR=#4EFF21]binb binaa kaisae kaparae dhhoee ||[/COLOR] just so, without water, how can the clothes be washed? [CENTER][CENTER] [/CENTER][/CENTER] [B][COLOR=red]12[/COLOR][/B] Gond Saint Kabir [COLOR=#0066CC]([/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC][FONT=Raavi]੮੭੨[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC]-[/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC][FONT=Raavi]੧੨[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC], [/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC][FONT=Raavi]ਗੋਂਡ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC], [/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC][FONT=Raavi]ਭਗਤ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC] [/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC][FONT=Raavi]ਕਬੀਰ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC] [/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC][FONT=Raavi]ਜੀ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC])[/COLOR] [FONT=Raavi]ਘੋਰ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਬਿਨਾ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਕੈਸੇ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਅਸਵਾਰ[/FONT] [FONT=Mangal]॥[/FONT] [COLOR=#4EFF21]ghor binaa kaisae asavaar ||[/COLOR] Without a horse, how can there be a rider? [CENTER][CENTER] [/CENTER][/CENTER] [B][COLOR=red]12[/COLOR][/B] Gond Saint Kabir [COLOR=#0066CC]([/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC][FONT=Raavi]੮੭੨[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC]-[/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC][FONT=Raavi]੧੨[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC], [/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC][FONT=Raavi]ਗੋਂਡ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC], [/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC][FONT=Raavi]ਭਗਤ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC] [/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC][FONT=Raavi]ਕਬੀਰ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC] [/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC][FONT=Raavi]ਜੀ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC])[/COLOR] [FONT=Raavi]ਸਾਧੂ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਬਿਨੁ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਨਾਹੀ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਦਰਵਾਰ[/FONT] [FONT=Mangal]॥[/FONT][FONT=Raavi]੩[/FONT][FONT=Mangal]॥[/FONT] [COLOR=#4EFF21]saadhhoo bin naahee dharavaar ||3||[/COLOR] Without the Holy Saint, one cannot reach the Court of the Lord. ||3|| [CENTER][CENTER] [/CENTER][/CENTER] (Ang 872) Here without mother or father child could not happen could be understood as could not survive. As in present day science in some organism ,just with single parent(mother from whose body part semen is developed and then fused with her egg) child is developed ,this thing is not allowed by law on humans. [COLOR=#0066CC]([/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC][FONT=Raavi]੪੮੯[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC]-[/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC][FONT=Raavi]੮[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC], [/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC][FONT=Raavi]ਗੂਜਰੀ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC], [/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC][FONT=Raavi]ਮ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC] [/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC][FONT=Raavi]੧[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC])[/COLOR] [FONT=Raavi]ਗੂਜਰੀ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਮਹਲਾ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]੧[/FONT] [FONT=Mangal]॥[/FONT] [COLOR=#4EFF21]goojaree mehalaa 1 ||[/COLOR] Goojaree, First Mehl: [CENTER][CENTER] [/CENTER][/CENTER] [B][COLOR=red]8[/COLOR][/B] null null [COLOR=#0066CC]([/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC][FONT=Raavi]੪੮੯[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC]-[/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC][FONT=Raavi]੮[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC], [/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC][FONT=Raavi]ਗੂਜਰੀ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC], [/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC][FONT=Raavi]ਮ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC] [/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC][FONT=Raavi]੧[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC])[/COLOR] [FONT=Raavi]ਨਾਭਿ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਕਮਲ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਤੇ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਉਪਜੇ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਬੇਦ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਪੜਹਿ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਮੁਖਿ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਕੰਠਿ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਸਵਾਰਿ[/FONT] [FONT=Mangal]॥[/FONT] [COLOR=#4EFF21]naabh kamal thae brehamaa oupajae baedh parrehi mukh kanth savaar ||[/COLOR] From the lotus of Vishnu's navel,[B][COLOR=red] Brahma [/COLOR][/B]was born; He chanted the Vedas with a melodious voice. (Ang 489) This verse talks of a creation with out parents so is Vysa [COLOR=#0066CC]([/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC][FONT=Raavi]੧੩੦੯[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC]-[/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC][FONT=Raavi]੭[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC], [/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC][FONT=Raavi]ਕਾਨੜਾ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC], [/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC][FONT=Raavi]ਮ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC] [/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC][FONT=Raavi]੪[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#0066CC])[/COLOR] [FONT=Raavi]ਬ੍ਰਹਮ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਕਮਲ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਪੁਤੁ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਮੀਨ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਬਿਆਸਾ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਤਪੁ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਤਾਪਨ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਪੂਜ[/FONT] [FONT=Raavi]ਕਰਾਵੈਗੋ[/FONT] [FONT=Mangal]॥[/FONT] [COLOR=#4EFF21]breham kamal puth meen biaasaa thap thaapan pooj karaavaigo ||[/COLOR] Brahma, the son of the lotus, and[B][COLOR=red] Vyaas[/COLOR][/B], the son of the fish, practiced austere penance and were worshipped. (Ang 1309) So if Guru uses mythological examples from old text to explain something. Why cannot by unique Sikh way Guru could talk of similar example made by self to just the followers understand the thing better. So let us talk of these lines. Now I describe my story. The way it come to me while I was concentrating on worship/devotion /austerity. Where the pond/pit of ice/snow is mountain. There peak of seven is located beautifully there. [/QUOTE]
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Bachittar Natak
Answers To The Issues Raised By Gyani Bhag Singh Ji On The Verses Onto Tenth Master
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