And So A Year Later

[Harry Haller]

Hope you enjoyed your breakfast. And I love doughnuts. I'm trying to cut too much sugar out of my diet though.

You love doughnuts, just like me, given the nature of your writings, is the love of doughnuts something to be fought or should one observe discretion given the level of one's own understanding?

Regarding right and wrong, we all know it deep down. Some choose to ignore their higher self, their conscience. The Gurus reminded people to listen.

agreed

My friend called me a fool yesterday, and I laughed, because he was right, I was being foolish.

nice sign of humility, a nice trait.

Love and respect yourself by discovering who u really are, treating yourself well. Then teach others to respect themselves. Respect others choices as they're all at their own stages of learning and evolution as per hukam.

Respect can be a thing in time, for instance men, many years commanded respect as they were good slave traders, a man who kept his wife under control, in years gone by, commanded respect, a man moulded his daughter in law's into meek child bearing slaves, commanded respect, so the respect that society deems can be misplaced, surely only the truth commands respect, but until it is understood and lived, than all other 'respects' are man made and many times misplaced, we put on pedestals those we hung yesterday.I believe we all free to follow our own path and understanding, I do not believe one person's experiences and understanding are universal, there are universal truths, but I do not believe any of us can see that clearly,and if we can, then there is trouble following it, why? the love of doughnuts.

Teaching is self help. You teach someone how to help themselves and your teaching them independence. That's seva.

Rarely happens, I know, I have tried, there are several distinct stages

love the teacher
learn from the teacher
want to equal the teacher
want to be better than the teacher
take what the teacher has
despise the teacher

well that is how it has panned out for me, so after twenty years of teaching or ruining, depending on how look at it, I give up, I think I have done my time on the teaching thing, I accept I have nothing to teach, it makes life so much simpler. For sure I probably did it wrong, my biggest problem is I find it hard to get angry, and after years, people get used to unconditional love, and worse, they expect it and test it, pushing to see just how much love there is, each time, I lost a load of hair, and had a heart attack, the experiences drained me, love, money, the lot, I know a bit now about people, agendas, relationships, love, hate, I don't want to share it, people have to make their own mistakes, that is how they learn,

A person teaching an immigrant in a western country English is teaching that person to potentially live an easier life in
that country, to get a better job, to be able to communicate with others, to gain a more recognized education.

are they qualified? can they teach professionally? will they possibly make the situation worse by imparting incorrect teaching that has to be undone by a professional? so many of our good intentions can cause more harm than good, but it never gets seen , after all, its a good intention, and good intentions cannot be bad, right?

Agreed with some of your points about the poor, especially regarding drug users etc. However some have little or no options especially in third world countries where gaining employment can be impossible. In these cases short term solutions help but it's best to try long term solutions as well.

agreed

The governments are heartless, world hunger could be remedied significantly if not solved but they choose to spend billions on sending ships up to space, and military stuff. How they get away with it is beyond me.

oh that is easy, those in deep maya wish to stay as deep as possible, what is unusual yesterday is accepted today, we are naive if we think we have complete free will, a lot is imposed on us by those with agenda, rightly or wrongly.

Unconditional Love is acceptance of Karam, dukh and sukh as Him, in peace Sehaj and Chardi Kala, without reacting in Maya(5 thrives).

again, sorry to bring up the doughnuts, can one love doughnuts in this state?

As Bhagats we should take responsibility for our actions, He gives us endless chances and opportunities and we as fools react in lust anger greed attachment ego. We slander each other and find a billion and one excuses not to delve within and understand and accept and surrender.

Uhm speak for yourself on that one, not sure what a Bhagat is, but it sounds important, as Groucho Marx once said, "I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member.", yes, I agree, but how much do you give up? all of your lust/anger/greed etc? a bit? enough to survive in the world, but then define survival? surely if this is followed to its logical conclusion, then we spend our last days on a farm growing our own crops, and being free of everything, and blissfully happy, so do we aspire to that state at some point, or begin it straight away?

Unconditional Love is acceptance of Karam, dukh and sukh as Him, in peace Sehaj and Chardi Kala, without reacting in Maya(5 thrives).

As Bhagats we should take responsibility for our actions, He gives us endless chances and opportunities and we as fools react in lust anger greed attachment ego. We slander each other and find a billion and one excuses not to delve within and understand and accept and surrender.

Yeh we are beaten, the lesson is to detach and live free from the thieves but instead, when beaten we dig ourselves deeper in Maya, we shout, hit, sleep around, slander, steal, react in the thieves. And so we lose time and time again, Janam after janam.

Living free is easy and simple, free from Maya thoughts, free from the rubbish. He's given us a way to enjoy and live and appreciate life in peace regardless of the chaos around us and we refuse to accept it.

Why do we refuse to accept it, and do we know of anyone, other than a preacher, who lives in this fashion? also, describe the ideal lifestyle that would reflect living this way, what would be allowed, what would be off limits?

I take it you are on this path, I hope you do not find my questions impertinent, these are questions that genuinely bug me

thank you

 

[Sikhilove]

You love doughnuts, just like me, given the nature of your writings, is the love of doughnuts something to be fought or should one observe discretion given the level of one's own understanding?



agreed



nice sign of humility, a nice trait.



Respect can be a thing in time, for instance men, many years commanded respect as they were good slave traders, a man who kept his wife under control, in years gone by, commanded respect, a man moulded his daughter in law's into meek child bearing slaves, commanded respect, so the respect that society deems can be misplaced, surely only the truth commands respect, but until it is understood and lived, than all other 'respects' are man made and many times misplaced, we put on pedestals those we hung yesterday.I believe we all free to follow our own path and understanding, I do not believe one person's experiences and understanding are universal, there are universal truths, but I do not believe any of us can see that clearly,and if we can, then there is trouble following it, why? the love of doughnuts.



Rarely happens, I know, I have tried, there are several distinct stages

love the teacher
learn from the teacher
want to equal the teacher
want to be better than the teacher
take what the teacher has
despise the teacher

well that is how it has panned out for me, so after twenty years of teaching or ruining, depending on how look at it, I give up, I think I have done my time on the teaching thing, I accept I have nothing to teach, it makes life so much simpler. For sure I probably did it wrong, my biggest problem is I find it hard to get angry, and after years, people get used to unconditional love, and worse, they expect it and test it, pushing to see just how much love there is, each time, I lost a load of hair, and had a heart attack, the experiences drained me, love, money, the lot, I know a bit now about people, agendas, relationships, love, hate, I don't want to share it, people have to make their own mistakes, that is how they learn,



are they qualified? can they teach professionally? will they possibly make the situation worse by imparting incorrect teaching that has to be undone by a professional? so many of our good intentions can cause more harm than good, but it never gets seen , after all, its a good intention, and good intentions cannot be bad, right?



agreed



oh that is easy, those in deep maya wish to stay as deep as possible, what is unusual yesterday is accepted today, we are naive if we think we have complete free will, a lot is imposed on us by those with agenda, rightly or wrongly.



again, sorry to bring up the doughnuts, can one love doughnuts in this state?



Uhm speak for yourself on that one, not sure what a Bhagat is, but it sounds important, as Groucho Marx once said, "I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member.", yes, I agree, but how much do you give up? all of your lust/anger/greed etc? a bit? enough to survive in the world, but then define survival? surely if this is followed to its logical conclusion, then we spend our last days on a farm growing our own crops, and being free of everything, and blissfully happy, so do we aspire to that state at some point, or begin it straight away?


Why do we refuse to accept it, and do we know of anyone, other than a preacher, who lives in this fashion? also, describe the ideal lifestyle that would reflect living this way, what would be allowed, what would be off limits?

I take it you are on this path, I hope you do not find my questions impertinent, these are questions that genuinely bug me

thank you

Hi apologies for delayed reply. I love doughnuts, but the body is His temple, so I'm trying to treat it with respect by eating healthy.

Truth is Truth- it's all there in Gurbani, in Mool Mantar. It's ours for the taking n it's up to us if we choose to take it.

Regarding teachers. Think about how many times were the Gurus betrayed. We are not alone in experiencing betrayal, backstabbing etc. They never stopped or gave up though.

People can be a holes. Forgive, forget them and move on.

Bhagat just means devotee/ lover of God/Truth.

Truth is Truth. It resonates with many when they hear it, it's up to you if you want to listen to your inner self or not.

 

[Balbir27]

but the body is His temple

This statement appears to be common with the Bible (Corinthians 6:19-20)
19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?
you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body.

and the SGGS, e.g.page 155 -
ਉਸਾਰਿ ਮੜੋਲੀ ਰਾਖੈ ਦੁਆਰਾ ਭੀਤਰਿ ਬੈਠੀ ਸਾ ਧਨਾ ॥
Usār maṛolī rākẖai ḏu▫ārā bẖīṯar baiṯẖī sā ḏẖanā.
God has erected the temple of the body; He has placed the nine doors, and the soul-bride sits within.
(Guru Nanak)

So is the soul-bride the holy spirit? If not, what is the difference?

Guru Arjan Dev Ji puts it in another way (SGGS page 180)
ਮਨੁ ਮੰਦਰੁ ਤਨੁ ਸਾਜੀ ਬਾਰਿ ॥
Man manḏar ṯan sājī bār.
The mind is the temple, and the body is the fence built around it.

So, I agree with you that, by eating the right food, one looks after and respects the body.
Going one step further, it appears that the mind also needs looking after, by "imbibing" the right sort of thoughts, don't you agree?

 

[Harry Haller]

This statement appears to be common with the Bible (Corinthians 6:19-20)
19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?
you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body.

and the SGGS, e.g.page 155 -
ਉਸਾਰਿ ਮੜੋਲੀ ਰਾਖੈ ਦੁਆਰਾ ਭੀਤਰਿ ਬੈਠੀ ਸਾ ਧਨਾ ॥
Usār maṛolī rākẖai ḏu▫ārā bẖīṯar baiṯẖī sā ḏẖanā.
God has erected the temple of the body; He has placed the nine doors, and the soul-bride sits within.
(Guru Nanak)

So is the soul-bride the holy spirit? If not, what is the difference?

Guru Arjan Dev Ji puts it in another way (SGGS page 180)
ਮਨੁ ਮੰਦਰੁ ਤਨੁ ਸਾਜੀ ਬਾਰਿ ॥
Man manḏar ṯan sājī bār.
The mind is the temple, and the body is the fence built around it.

So, I agree with you that, by eating the right food, one looks after and respects the body.
Going one step further, it appears that the mind also needs looking after, by "imbibing" the right sort of thoughts, don't you agree?

how does one respect the body?
what are the 'right sort' of thoughts?

 

[Balbir27]

Harry Ji

Once again it is simply a matter of perspective and/or context.
Respect, in this context normally would mean "to refrain from violating.."
For example, too much sugar or carbohydrates in an unbalanced diet is highly likely to lead to Diabetes and it's consequences on the body. I would look at this as a violation of the body. Maybe you wouldn't.

The "right sort of thoughts"(TRSOTs)? You know, I knew you would pick on this. You seem to have knack or propensity of picking on something which is not quite related to the discussion and which appears to mock the author. Am I wrong?
However I welcome any "picking" of me. It's what a discussion is all about, is it not?

Anyway, TRSOTs are right if you feel they are right. Someone else might say that "they are not right for me". Perspective again?

The context TRSOT was used here, was vis a vis the mind. For example, I would think that the Wrong sort of thoughts would be being envious of someone and or even plotting stuff against that person. Would that thought be right or wrong for you? If you differ, I would like to know why.

Sat Sri Akal

 

[Harry Haller]

Once again it is simply a matter of perspective and/or context.

if everything is a matter of context and perspective then surely solitary statements, solitary quotes are pointless without the relevant context and perspective

Respect, in this context normally would mean "to refrain from violating.."
For example, too much sugar or carbohydrates in an unbalanced diet is highly likely to lead to Diabetes and it's consequences on the body. I would look at this as a violation of the body. Maybe you wouldn't.

thank you, question answered!

The "right sort of thoughts"(TRSOTs)? You know, I knew you would pick on this.

and I know that you knew I would pick up on this, which is why I did, I kinda didn't want to let you down.

You seem to have knack or propensity of picking on something which is not quite related to the discussion and which appears to mock the author. Am I wrong?

Well first lets confirm where I am in the big scheme of things, absolutely {censored}ing nowhere, so everything to some extent is just a bad joke, so yes, it is mockable, no, I look for the words that do not make sense, that are ambiguous, as you said above, everything is so subjective and in need of perspective that a persons own perspective is needed to complete the puzzle. As I have said before, I am just a young child in a mans body pointing at naked emperors, and giggling.

However I welcome any "picking" of me. It's what a discussion is all about, is it not?

I am not picking on you, I couldn't pick on a fly, it is not my tone or demeanor you find reflect such, I am sorry you find my polite questions threatening

Anyway, TRSOTs are right if you feel they are right. Someone else might say that "they are not right for me". Perspective again?

in which case we lose the whole point of any statement made, it feels right to some to murder, to rape, to drink, whatever, I do not think philosophy is the question of what feels personally right, it is what is right, period. And what is right?, well ultimately, the truth is, in my opinion anyway,

so answer me this, is truth a matter of perspective? if what is right is also true, then it cannot be.

The context TRSOT was used here, was vis a vis the mind. For example, I would think that the Wrong sort of thoughts would be being envious of someone and or even plotting stuff against that person. Would that thought be right or wrong for you? If you differ, I would like to know why.

I envy no one, its why I look like a tramp, live in a run down area, and drive a run down car, the lack of envy, to the eyes of society has destroyed me, because I envy no one, I feel no need to advance from where I am, so the spark, the lifeforce inside of me dies, envy, like pride, anger, and all of thieves is actually crucial, it is what advances the human race, where would apple be without envy, or mercedes for that matter, or all the nice big weddings, have you ever watched a conversation between two indian families meeting for the first time, its an envy game, everyone rolls out their little stories with the sole aim of provoking envy, so you may tell me that envious thoughts are wrong, but I would call you an idealist, not a realist. May I ask the last time you felt envy? Did any good come from it, in terms of an action that advanced you? If a child watches his brother get straight A's and feels envy, and then plots to take the crown away from his brother by getting more straight A's is that bad?

Now if these thoughts are wrong, then where did they come from, according to Sikhism everything comes from god, everything, that includes your so called wrong thoughts, so does that mean we are calling something from god, wrong? every thought is a god given thought, every so called wrong action does not always result in a wrong result, in the same way that every so called good action does not always guarantee a good result, for that reason, the true understanding of Gurbani, in my opinion, cannot be communicated, taught or instructed, did not the life of the ninth Guru mean anything to anyone regarding this subject? Those that shout loudest, know nothing, those that preach, know nothing, the truth lies in the SGGS, without perspective, without double meanings.

 

[Balbir27]

personally speaking I could not give a toss what anyone thinks,

Could that perspective of yours explain your thoughts?
In the affirmative case, it is absolutely pointless having any further discussion with you Harry.
I have read through a lot of your posts and blogs, which is exceptional for me, and I thought I should engage with you (in discussions).
Your view of others/society is uniformly in the negative.
You, yourself have said

Am I dark? depressed? melancholy, not at all, I find myself giggling to myself most of the time

I'm not sure what that means.

a little innocent child laughing at all the emperors with no clothes, giggling at all the {censored}s following them

Does one take this to mean that all others, except for Harry, are these no clothes emperors?
I, for one, do not think I am anywhere near the status of any emperor, nor do I want to be. And I know what "no clothes" alludes to.
If there is any position that is much much lower than Guru Nanak, then, that is mine.

If Guru Nanak himself says (SGGS - p 163) (read the whole context, if you wish)

ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਬਖਸਿ ਮਿਲਾਇ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਜਨੁ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਕੀਰਾ ॥੪॥੩॥੧੭॥੩੭॥
Har har bakẖas milā▫e parabẖ jan Nānak kīrā. ||4||3||17||37||
O Lord, Har, Har, please forgive me and unite me with Yourself. Servant Nanak is a lowly worm. ||4||3||17||37||

What do you think that means? Pray tell.

Sat Sri Akal

 

[Harry Haller]

Could that perspective of yours explain your thoughts?

absolutely, it means I also have no agenda,

In the affirmative case, it is absolutely pointless having any further discussion with you Harry.

utterly, especially if you cannot answer the questions I ask

I have read through a lot of your posts and blogs, which is exceptional for me, and I thought I should engage with you (in discussions).
Your view of others/society is uniformly in the negative.

most interaction is your made up personality talking to my made up personality, except, I have no personality, and I find it tedious to adopt one for interaction purposes, on the whole society is pretty disgusting

You, yourself have said
I'm not sure what that means.

it means that life, once in isolation, cannot be viewed seriously, at all.

Does one take this to mean that all others, except for Harry, are these no clothes emperors?

allow me to explain, from my window, through the chink of newspapers that have been taped, (keeps the sun out), I can see the world, and what can I see, its christmas! christmas is an emperor with no clothes, those that make long flowing airy statements that cannot be backed up, yup, more emperors, apologies, you write quite well, I assumed you would be familiar with the story of the boy and the emperor with no clothes, are you an emperor with no clothes, I am not sure, you quote bani with english translations, have you checked these translations, do you know who did the translation? do you know their background? did they have Christian or Vedic leanings? did they have an agenda? are we all supposed to point at these translations and be beside ourselves with knowledge, and clap and applaud, maybe, I dunno, so my obsession with naked Empire owners is just to ask questions, I get very few answers, most seem to be content with discussing other things, other posts, other blogs, anything other than the questions I have asked, a bit like you really.

If there is any position that is much much lower than Guru Nanak, then, that is mine.

haha that is your ego speaking, did you know ego goes both ways, positive and negative, so now you wish to impress on me how low you are, does that make your negative ego grow? surely someone with no ego would not care less either way.

ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਬਖਸਿ ਮਿਲਾਇ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਜਨੁ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਕੀਰਾ ॥੪॥੩॥੧੭॥੩੭॥
Har har bakẖas milā▫e parabẖ jan Nānak kīrā. ||4||3||17||37||
O Lord, Har, Har, please forgive me and unite me with Yourself. Servant Nanak is a lowly worm. ||4||3||17||37||

What do you think that means? Pray tell.

what does what mean? the single english translation? the single punjabi line? do you wish us to translate the shabad together and compare translations? what exactly do you wish me to offer my opinion on?

 

[Balbir27]

I'm not sure what that means.
Does one take this to mean that all others, except for Harry, are these no clothes emperors?
I, for one, do not think I am anywhere near the status of any emperor, nor do I want to be. And I know what "no clothes" alludes to.
If there is any position that is much much lower than Guru Nanak, then, that is mine.

If Guru Nanak himself says (SGGS - p 163) (read the whole context, if you wish)

ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਬਖਸਿ ਮਿਲਾਇ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਜਨੁ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਕੀਰਾ ॥੪॥੩॥੧੭॥੩੭॥
Har har bakẖas milā▫e parabẖ jan Nānak kīrā. ||4||3||17||37||
O Lord, Har, Har, please forgive me and unite me with Yourself. Servant Nanak is a lowly worm. ||4||3||17||37||

What do you think that means? Pray tell.

Harry Haller, for your own reasons, you quoted only a part of that - as follows:

"
ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਬਖਸਿ ਮਿਲਾਇ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਜਨੁ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਕੀਰਾ ॥੪॥੩॥੧੭॥੩੭॥
Har har bakẖas milā▫e parabẖ jan Nānak kīrā. ||4||3||17||37||
O Lord, Har, Har, please forgive me and unite me with Yourself. Servant Nanak is a lowly worm. ||4||3||17||37||

What do you think that means? Pray tell."

and said

what does what mean? the single english translation? the single punjabi line? do you wish us to translate the shabad together and compare translations? what exactly do you wish me to offer my opinion on?

Kindly reply to the whole question and quote. And the question is directed to you not "us". The SGGS quote is in the original language, the English phonation and the English translation. That is the whole quotation in the SGGS. Besides I had said "read the whole context, if you wish".

Kindly address the question. I'll be much obliged.

 

[Harry Haller]

Harry Haller, for your own reasons, you quoted only a part of that - as follows:

"
ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਬਖਸਿ ਮਿਲਾਇ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਜਨੁ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਕੀਰਾ ॥੪॥੩॥੧੭॥੩੭॥
Har har bakẖas milā▫e parabẖ jan Nānak kīrā. ||4||3||17||37||
O Lord, Har, Har, please forgive me and unite me with Yourself. Servant Nanak is a lowly worm. ||4||3||17||37||

What do you think that means? Pray tell."

and said



Kindly reply to the whole question and quote. And the question is directed to you not "us". The SGGS quote is in the original language, the English phonation and the English translation. That is the whole quotation in the SGGS. Besides I had said "read the whole context, if you wish".

Kindly address the question. I'll be much obliged.

Although it fashionable to pretend to know exactly and give my own opinion as being fact, I have to confess to having no idea, if God is in everything and everyone, how could I be united with something that is already in me? Would align have been a better translation? sorry chum, I have no idea, I am still trying to figure out Mool Mantra

oh well, if your not going to answer my questions, I may as well go to bed, 4am start and all that

 

[Balbir27]

Harry, even your newspaper lined room has chinks in it. The Sunlight is out there trying to find a way in all the day time, and I’m sure it does catch your jaundiced eye now and then, when you are busy spotting no-clothes-emperors outside. If you feel that I am an emperor-with-no-clothes then so be it. That’s your choice. That’s your POV. It does not affect me in any way.

You know you cannot live without this world, and all that it has, which you require, and depend on.

Do you label everyone with the same cynical brush? Or do you reserve it for the Bourgeois only?

You appear to suspect everything, including the Bani and its translations. Don’t you think you have to start somewhere? Trust and faith have to start somewhere. You started somewhere when you were born. That was the start of your life journey.

The few answers you say you get may be due to others avoiding you because of your mistrust and the fact that they cannot get anywhere with your comments and answers.

I don’t gain anything by engaging with you other than grief, for want of a better word. On the other hand, I devote much of precious time to you.

You may not realise it, but you did make a start – in that you had some chinks in your newspaper lined room to allow you to see the world go by. Go a step further.

I am always here (subject to God’s will). My hand is always there, in trust. I will still call a spade a spade and I trust you will too. It is part of being a Sikh is it not?

Coming back to your question which I have not forgotten – I took your concerns aboard and tried a translation of the Stanza we were talking about, using my own understanding and whatever grasp I still have of Punjabi and Gurmukhi.

I have put it before the much learned sad Sangat out there for corrections and red marks.

The link is
Sikhi - A Simple Stanza, A Simple Translation - Your Thoughts Requested

 

[Sikhilove]

Although it fashionable to pretend to know exactly and give my own opinion as being fact, I have to confess to having no idea, if God is in everything and everyone, how could I be united with something that is already in me? Would align have been a better translation? sorry chum, I have no idea, I am still trying to figure out Mool Mantra

oh well, if your not going to answer my questions, I may as well go to bed, 4am start and all that

It means to keep his mind out of the bulls*ht and back to the Truth.
We all get caught up by the khel, fall so deep in its trap that at times we feel there's no way out.
But we're already free.

 

[Harry Haller]

Harry, even your newspaper lined room has chinks in it. The Sunlight is out there trying to find a way in all the day time, and I’m sure it does catch your jaundiced eye now and then, when you are busy spotting no-clothes-emperors outside.

absolutely, but your missing the point slightly, I have no problem with the emperor, if he wishes to go round naked, that is up to him, its the people fawning over his non existent wardrobe that bother me,

If you feel that I am an emperor-with-no-clothes then so be it. That’s your choice. That’s your POV. It does not affect me in any way.

at no point have i accused you of being an emperor with no clothes on, you may be one of the ones admiring his trousers, I don't know, there are lots of people admiring his trousers...

You know you cannot live without this world, and all that it has, which you require, and depend on.

No, I cannot, but I can limit my exposure to it, my business is on line, no mobile, no TV, no friends, no associates, its quite peaceful, a bit lonely sometimes, but peaceful,

Do you label everyone with the same cynical brush? Or do you reserve it for the Bourgeois only?

How {censored}ing insightful of you, yes, your right, I despise the bourgeois, with their stupid immaculate gardens and starched net curtains, ah yes, the bourgeois, the fearful terrified bourgeois, unable to commit to god, or the flesh, they spend their days in that warm nice world devoid of intensity, cowards.

You appear to suspect everything, including the Bani and its translations. Don’t you think you have to start somewhere?

I started and I have finished, 20 years is a long time to spend living what you perceive to be bani, to find out it was all wrong, do I suspect the bani, no, I suspect my own understanding, my own failure at spotting naked emperors, and yes, the bad translations. I now have to embrace the very opposite of Sikhism in order to live, given the state I am in at the moment. Its my own fault really, I took things literally, when I was told to display no lust, anger, pride, being an idiot, I did, years later a very wise Sikh man told me where I had gone wrong, ah you see, you have to have moderation, you cannot just have no pride, lust or anger, there has to be moderation, ah, great, and who sets this moderation level, oh, the individual, which kind of makes a mockery of the whole concept. So, in order to feel again, to feel normal again, I have to embrace lust, embrace pride, but unfortunately, I am too old, and I can't be bothered.

The few answers you say you get may be due to others avoiding you because of your mistrust and the fact that they cannot get anywhere with your comments and answers.

Bullshit, I have asked many questions on this blog alone, no answers, just skirting, its ok, I would not expect anything less, after all, I guess you have your pride and your egos, saying 'I don't know ' is probably quite hard for some,

I don’t gain anything by engaging with you other than grief, for want of a better word. On the other hand, I devote much of precious time to you.

likewise, you have my time too, but I think grief is a strong word, grief is when your sitting in a fume filled car, or dangling from the ceiling, or when you have just found out your wife is dead, this is not grief, if it is for you, then you have not lived.

You may not realise it, but you did make a start – in that you had some chinks in your newspaper lined room to allow you to see the world go by. Go a step further.

You know those chinks have been bothering me for weeks, your right, I need to tape them up.

I am always here (subject to God’s will). My hand is always there, in trust. I will still call a spade a spade and I trust you will too. It is part of being a Sikh is it not?

no idea, I have no idea what being a Sikh is about, I could say being a SIkh is about having a personal agenda that one has aligned with a particular translation of the SGGS

Coming back to your question which I have not forgotten – I took your concerns aboard and tried a translation of the Stanza we were talking about, using my own understanding and whatever grasp I still have of Punjabi and Gurmukhi.

I have put it before the much learned sad Sangat out there for corrections and red marks.

In which case you will soon start noting that the emperor is looking a bit naked, the amazing thing is of course, no one else notices, but you will, don't let it drive you too mad! and Good luck, it was nice sharing!

 

[Harry Haller]

We all get caught up by the khel, fall so deep in its trap that at times we feel there's no way out.
But we're already free.

no, we don't all get caught up in it, I am not caught up in it, its not that hard, who gives a flying {censored} what car you have, where you live, whether there is a brothel downstairs so you have to walk past short fat ugly blokes to get to your front door, how you dress, how you act, its only when you feel people do give a {censored} that you get caught in the game, that and when you talk the talk but don't walk the walk, its not that hard at all, just a bit boring, and a bit lonely, its not really living, more like a living death but very peaceful.