☀️ JOIN SPN MOBILE
Forums
New posts
Guru Granth Sahib
Composition, Arrangement & Layout
ਜਪੁ | Jup
ਸੋ ਦਰੁ | So Dar
ਸੋਹਿਲਾ | Sohilaa
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ | Raag Siree-Raag
Gurbani (14-53)
Ashtpadiyan (53-71)
Gurbani (71-74)
Pahre (74-78)
Chhant (78-81)
Vanjara (81-82)
Vaar Siri Raag (83-91)
Bhagat Bani (91-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਝ | Raag Maajh
Gurbani (94-109)
Ashtpadi (109)
Ashtpadiyan (110-129)
Ashtpadi (129-130)
Ashtpadiyan (130-133)
Bara Maha (133-136)
Din Raen (136-137)
Vaar Maajh Ki (137-150)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗਉੜੀ | Raag Gauree
Gurbani (151-185)
Quartets/Couplets (185-220)
Ashtpadiyan (220-234)
Karhalei (234-235)
Ashtpadiyan (235-242)
Chhant (242-249)
Baavan Akhari (250-262)
Sukhmani (262-296)
Thittee (296-300)
Gauree kii Vaar (300-323)
Gurbani (323-330)
Ashtpadiyan (330-340)
Baavan Akhari (340-343)
Thintteen (343-344)
Vaar Kabir (344-345)
Bhagat Bani (345-346)
ਰਾਗੁ ਆਸਾ | Raag Aasaa
Gurbani (347-348)
Chaupaday (348-364)
Panchpadde (364-365)
Kaafee (365-409)
Aasaavaree (409-411)
Ashtpadiyan (411-432)
Patee (432-435)
Chhant (435-462)
Vaar Aasaa (462-475)
Bhagat Bani (475-488)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੂਜਰੀ | Raag Goojaree
Gurbani (489-503)
Ashtpadiyan (503-508)
Vaar Gujari (508-517)
Vaar Gujari (517-526)
ਰਾਗੁ ਦੇਵਗੰਧਾਰੀ | Raag Dayv-Gandhaaree
Gurbani (527-536)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਹਾਗੜਾ | Raag Bihaagraa
Gurbani (537-556)
Chhant (538-548)
Vaar Bihaagraa (548-556)
ਰਾਗੁ ਵਡਹੰਸ | Raag Wadhans
Gurbani (557-564)
Ashtpadiyan (564-565)
Chhant (565-575)
Ghoriaan (575-578)
Alaahaniiaa (578-582)
Vaar Wadhans (582-594)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੋਰਠਿ | Raag Sorath
Gurbani (595-634)
Asatpadhiya (634-642)
Vaar Sorath (642-659)
ਰਾਗੁ ਧਨਾਸਰੀ | Raag Dhanasaree
Gurbani (660-685)
Astpadhiya (685-687)
Chhant (687-691)
Bhagat Bani (691-695)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਤਸਰੀ | Raag Jaitsree
Gurbani (696-703)
Chhant (703-705)
Vaar Jaitsaree (705-710)
Bhagat Bani (710)
ਰਾਗੁ ਟੋਡੀ | Raag Todee
ਰਾਗੁ ਬੈਰਾੜੀ | Raag Bairaaree
ਰਾਗੁ ਤਿਲੰਗ | Raag Tilang
Gurbani (721-727)
Bhagat Bani (727)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੂਹੀ | Raag Suhi
Gurbani (728-750)
Ashtpadiyan (750-761)
Kaafee (761-762)
Suchajee (762)
Gunvantee (763)
Chhant (763-785)
Vaar Soohee (785-792)
Bhagat Bani (792-794)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ | Raag Bilaaval
Gurbani (795-831)
Ashtpadiyan (831-838)
Thitteen (838-840)
Vaar Sat (841-843)
Chhant (843-848)
Vaar Bilaaval (849-855)
Bhagat Bani (855-858)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੋਂਡ | Raag Gond
Gurbani (859-869)
Ashtpadiyan (869)
Bhagat Bani (870-875)
ਰਾਗੁ ਰਾਮਕਲੀ | Raag Ramkalee
Ashtpadiyan (902-916)
Gurbani (876-902)
Anand (917-922)
Sadd (923-924)
Chhant (924-929)
Dakhnee (929-938)
Sidh Gosat (938-946)
Vaar Ramkalee (947-968)
ਰਾਗੁ ਨਟ ਨਾਰਾਇਨ | Raag Nat Narayan
Gurbani (975-980)
Ashtpadiyan (980-983)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਲੀ ਗਉੜਾ | Raag Maalee Gauraa
Gurbani (984-988)
Bhagat Bani (988)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਰੂ | Raag Maaroo
Gurbani (889-1008)
Ashtpadiyan (1008-1014)
Kaafee (1014-1016)
Ashtpadiyan (1016-1019)
Anjulian (1019-1020)
Solhe (1020-1033)
Dakhni (1033-1043)
ਰਾਗੁ ਤੁਖਾਰੀ | Raag Tukhaari
Bara Maha (1107-1110)
Chhant (1110-1117)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕੇਦਾਰਾ | Raag Kedara
Gurbani (1118-1123)
Bhagat Bani (1123-1124)
ਰਾਗੁ ਭੈਰਉ | Raag Bhairo
Gurbani (1125-1152)
Partaal (1153)
Ashtpadiyan (1153-1167)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਸੰਤੁ | Raag Basant
Gurbani (1168-1187)
Ashtpadiyan (1187-1193)
Vaar Basant (1193-1196)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਾਰਗ | Raag Saarag
Gurbani (1197-1200)
Partaal (1200-1231)
Ashtpadiyan (1232-1236)
Chhant (1236-1237)
Vaar Saarang (1237-1253)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਲਾਰ | Raag Malaar
Gurbani (1254-1293)
Partaal (1265-1273)
Ashtpadiyan (1273-1278)
Chhant (1278)
Vaar Malaar (1278-91)
Bhagat Bani (1292-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਾਨੜਾ | Raag Kaanraa
Gurbani (1294-96)
Partaal (1296-1318)
Ashtpadiyan (1308-1312)
Chhant (1312)
Vaar Kaanraa
Bhagat Bani (1318)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਲਿਆਨ | Raag Kalyaan
Gurbani (1319-23)
Ashtpadiyan (1323-26)
ਰਾਗੁ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ | Raag Prabhaatee
Gurbani (1327-1341)
Ashtpadiyan (1342-51)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਜਾਵੰਤੀ | Raag Jaijaiwanti
Gurbani (1352-53)
Salok | Gatha | Phunahe | Chaubole | Swayiye
Sehskritee Mahala 1
Sehskritee Mahala 5
Gaathaa Mahala 5
Phunhay Mahala 5
Chaubolae Mahala 5
Shaloks Bhagat Kabir
Shaloks Sheikh Farid
Swaiyyae Mahala 5
Swaiyyae in Praise of Gurus
Shaloks in Addition To Vaars
Shalok Ninth Mehl
Mundavanee Mehl 5
ਰਾਗ ਮਾਲਾ, Raag Maalaa
What's new
New posts
New media
New media comments
New resources
Latest activity
Videos
New media
New comments
Library
Latest reviews
Donate
Log in
Register
What's new
New posts
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Welcome to all New Sikh Philosophy Network Forums!
Explore Sikh Sikhi Sikhism...
Sign up
Log in
Discussions
Interfaith Dialogues
Albert Einstein And Spirituality: From The Man Of Atom Bomb
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Caspian" data-source="post: 142697" data-attributes="member: 5962"><p>Okay, first the easy questions.</p><p></p><p>1) If those three are my only options then I would have to say "It" but I am equally inclined to say all three or none of the above. I don't think the concept of god in Sikhism lends itself to easy characterization like that. "It" would be preferred in normal language use, just so we can talk about "It." <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite7" alt=":p" title="Stick Out Tongue :p" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":p" /> </p><p></p><p>2) This point is contingent on whether or not the sikh god is impersonal or personal. I believe the sikh notion of god is impersonal (consequently, I don't believe in the compassion bit, but thats a different conversation although it is related to my answer). So if the sikh god is not personal, then it is not a deity in the same sense as other religions (like islam and christianity). However, the compassion bit which I mentioned above, personifies god in a personal manner (atleast to me It does—im open to any argument that can suggest that a god can be both impersonal and compassionate, kind or caring). If it happens to be the case that the sikh god IS personal (this is a position I believe the average sikh holds). Then to me, of course, that sikh god is a deity. And that kind of a god was the god I debated against in my earlier threads (like the 2+2=5 one) although I acknowledge that is probably not the right interpretation of the sikh god. I have to say the "impersonality" clashes heavily with the "compassionate" bit in my head. </p><p></p><p>I wouldn't say I have a bitterness towards sikhi that borders on spite (which is the notion I think most people on this site assume, that I am doing this out of spite either at my parents or my community). I have a slightly negative attitude towards most religions (although I assure you, i'm far more negative towards christianity and islam then I am sikhism, that might not mean much to you though). And this negativity isnt really any form of "hatred," its more of a "scorn" akin to how quantum scientists look at string theorists—they just don't get along lol. Quantum scientists dont think that String theorists are crazy... but rather, they think that what they believe in doesnt really amount to "good" science and it contains an element of "faith" that goes above and beyond what is acceptable for a science. Having said that, they acknowledge that in the end, string theory may come out being true. So likewise, I feel that there are somethings that are holding Sikhism back from being a truly universal religion as it was intended on being (the 5 K's, etc) some of which are of no fault of the religion, but rather the disciples (silly stories and inconsistant belief between one sikh and another). Even though I'm willing to acknowledge that in the end, sikhism may very well be right—I disagree with how it was put in place and how it is being practiced. So most of my objections are with the practical side of sikhi and not so much the theory.</p><p></p><p>Its not that i dont accept you for who you are. By all means, be a sikh, remain a sikh, etc. But the same way you think I have not critically examined sikhism is what I think of many sikhs. I mean, me and you probably agree on more aspects of sikhism then me and the average sikh. Even the whole "god is impersonal" thing. Ill agree with you about that. But I feel like asking a question like that one i asked before (how can god be bother impersonal and compassionate?) gets sikhs to critically reflect on their religion just as much as I am reflecting on it. Having said that, if at the end of the day u come to a different conclusion then I have, and ur happy with urs as much as im happy with mines, by all means <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite7" alt=":p" title="Stick Out Tongue :p" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":p" /> stick with it. Im not forcing anyone to become an atheist. I will admit to raising concerns but that is because I think there isnt a pathway for sikhs in the community to similarily raise concerns without the threat of ex communication or just generally being looked down upon. I also think sikhs tend to give very lazy answers to fellow sikhs. But if an atheist raises an objects, that gets sikhs thinking. Im doing this for everybody <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite7" alt=":p" title="Stick Out Tongue :p" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":p" />. In one of my very first threads here, a sikh commented "if only we had more young sikhs like you asking questions like these" however the longer ive been here that has come to been replaced by "why are u raising objects? just leave us be" <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite7" alt=":p" title="Stick Out Tongue :p" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":p" /></p><p></p><p>Just as a side note. My parents are probably the best parents I could have asked for. If I was to be "reborn" into a family and I had my choice of an atheist family I did not know or the current Sikh family I am from. I would choose to be reborn into this sikh family and just be the black sheep all over again. They've been more then tolerant of me and my views. (Just wanna throw that out there cuz some people accuse my parents of having did something to me to turn me into what I am lol).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Caspian, post: 142697, member: 5962"] Okay, first the easy questions. 1) If those three are my only options then I would have to say "It" but I am equally inclined to say all three or none of the above. I don't think the concept of god in Sikhism lends itself to easy characterization like that. "It" would be preferred in normal language use, just so we can talk about "It." :P 2) This point is contingent on whether or not the sikh god is impersonal or personal. I believe the sikh notion of god is impersonal (consequently, I don't believe in the compassion bit, but thats a different conversation although it is related to my answer). So if the sikh god is not personal, then it is not a deity in the same sense as other religions (like islam and christianity). However, the compassion bit which I mentioned above, personifies god in a personal manner (atleast to me It does—im open to any argument that can suggest that a god can be both impersonal and compassionate, kind or caring). If it happens to be the case that the sikh god IS personal (this is a position I believe the average sikh holds). Then to me, of course, that sikh god is a deity. And that kind of a god was the god I debated against in my earlier threads (like the 2+2=5 one) although I acknowledge that is probably not the right interpretation of the sikh god. I have to say the "impersonality" clashes heavily with the "compassionate" bit in my head. I wouldn't say I have a bitterness towards sikhi that borders on spite (which is the notion I think most people on this site assume, that I am doing this out of spite either at my parents or my community). I have a slightly negative attitude towards most religions (although I assure you, i'm far more negative towards christianity and islam then I am sikhism, that might not mean much to you though). And this negativity isnt really any form of "hatred," its more of a "scorn" akin to how quantum scientists look at string theorists—they just don't get along lol. Quantum scientists dont think that String theorists are crazy... but rather, they think that what they believe in doesnt really amount to "good" science and it contains an element of "faith" that goes above and beyond what is acceptable for a science. Having said that, they acknowledge that in the end, string theory may come out being true. So likewise, I feel that there are somethings that are holding Sikhism back from being a truly universal religion as it was intended on being (the 5 K's, etc) some of which are of no fault of the religion, but rather the disciples (silly stories and inconsistant belief between one sikh and another). Even though I'm willing to acknowledge that in the end, sikhism may very well be right—I disagree with how it was put in place and how it is being practiced. So most of my objections are with the practical side of sikhi and not so much the theory. Its not that i dont accept you for who you are. By all means, be a sikh, remain a sikh, etc. But the same way you think I have not critically examined sikhism is what I think of many sikhs. I mean, me and you probably agree on more aspects of sikhism then me and the average sikh. Even the whole "god is impersonal" thing. Ill agree with you about that. But I feel like asking a question like that one i asked before (how can god be bother impersonal and compassionate?) gets sikhs to critically reflect on their religion just as much as I am reflecting on it. Having said that, if at the end of the day u come to a different conclusion then I have, and ur happy with urs as much as im happy with mines, by all means :P stick with it. Im not forcing anyone to become an atheist. I will admit to raising concerns but that is because I think there isnt a pathway for sikhs in the community to similarily raise concerns without the threat of ex communication or just generally being looked down upon. I also think sikhs tend to give very lazy answers to fellow sikhs. But if an atheist raises an objects, that gets sikhs thinking. Im doing this for everybody :P. In one of my very first threads here, a sikh commented "if only we had more young sikhs like you asking questions like these" however the longer ive been here that has come to been replaced by "why are u raising objects? just leave us be" :P Just as a side note. My parents are probably the best parents I could have asked for. If I was to be "reborn" into a family and I had my choice of an atheist family I did not know or the current Sikh family I am from. I would choose to be reborn into this sikh family and just be the black sheep all over again. They've been more then tolerant of me and my views. (Just wanna throw that out there cuz some people accuse my parents of having did something to me to turn me into what I am lol). [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Discussions
Interfaith Dialogues
Albert Einstein And Spirituality: From The Man Of Atom Bomb
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
Accept
Learn more…
Top