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8.4 Million Species ?
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<blockquote data-quote="P J Singh" data-source="post: 224674" data-attributes="member: 25524"><p>Guru Fetah Ji:</p><p></p><p>Thank you for sharing your paper : “<strong>ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਵਿੱਚ ਚੌਰਾਸੀ ਲੱਖ ਦੀ ਗਿਣਤੀ ਦਾ ਭੇਦ” </strong>providing a comprehensive list of Gurbani quotes leading to the conclusion that : <strong>ਗੁਰੂ ਸਾਹਿਬਾਨ ਨੇ ਚੌਰਾਸੀ ਲੱਖ ਨੂੰ ਅਣਗਿਣਤ ਧਰਤੀਆਂ, ਜੀਵ ਜੰਤਾਂ ਅਤੇ ਜੂਨੀਆਂ ਦੀ ਸਿੰਬੋਲਕਿ ਬਹੁ ਗਿਣਤੀ ( symbolic reference to the word countless) ਦੇ ਤੌਰ ਤੇ ਵਰਤਿਆ ਹੈ। </strong></p><p></p><p>I agree with your conclusion that it is a reference to the word “countless”; however, I would submit that the very fact Guru Sahibs (Guru Nanak Sahib, Guru Amardas Ji, Guru Angad Dev Ji and Guru Arjun Sahib) have repeatedly used the word ਚੌਰਾਸੀ ਲੱਖ (8.4 million), there must be some significance of this number besides being a symbolic reference to “countless”. Why did not they use the usual words like ਲਖ , ਅਸੰਖ , ਕੋਟਿ etc that appear throughout Gurbani as a substitute for the word “countless” right from the outset in AGGS:</p><p></p><p>ਸਹਸ ਸਿਆਣਪਾ ਲਖ ਹੋਹਿ ਤ ਇਕ ਨ ਚਲੈ ਨਾਲਿ</p><p></p><p>ਪਾਤਾਲਾ ਪਾਤਾਲ ਲਖ ਆਗਾਸਾ ਆਗਾਸ</p><p></p><p>ਲਖੁ ਲਖੁ ਗੇੜਾ ਆਖੀਅਹਿ ਏਕੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਗਦੀਸ</p><p></p><p>ਕਥਿ ਕਥਿ ਕਥੀ ਕੋਟੀ ਕੋਟਿ ਕੋਟਿ</p><p></p><p>ਕੋਟਿ ਕੋਟੀ ਮੇਰੀ ਆਰਜਾ ਪਵਣੁ ਪੀਅਣੁ ਅਪਿਆਉ</p><p></p><p>ਅਸੰਖ ਜਪ ਅਸੰਖ ਭਾਉ</p><p></p><p>ਅਸੰਖ ਪੂਜਾ ਅਸੰਖ ਤਪ ਤਾਉ</p><p></p><p>ਅਸੰਖ ਗਰੰਥ ਮੁਖਿ ਵੇਦ ਪਾਠ</p><p></p><p></p><p>You have narrated the word ਚੌਰਾਸੀ ਲੱਖ in three different contexts:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">ਲਖ ਚਉਰਾਸੀਹ ਮੇਦਨੀ</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">ਲਖ ਚਉਰਾਸੀਹ ਜੰਤ</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">ਲਖ ਚਉਰਾਸੀਹ ਜੋਨਿ</li> </ul><p>To me they all mean the same - ਚਉਰਾਸੀਹ ਲਖ ਜੰਤ or ਜੋਨਿ.</p><p></p><p><strong>I see you have interpreted ਲਖ ਚਉਰਾ<strong>ਸੀਹ</strong> ਮੇਦਨੀ as 84 lakh ਧਰਤੀਆਂ. Gurbani is a poetic rendition, I agree with many Gurmat scholars who suggest the meaning of ਲਖ ਚਉਰਾਸੀਹ ਮੇਦਨੀ is that the ਮੇਦਨੀ (ਧਰਤੀ) with 84 lakh species abode or we can say the one that sustains 8.4 million species (<strong>ਚਉਰਾ<strong>ਸੀਹ <strong>ਲਖ ਜੂਨਾ ਵਾਲੀ ਧਰਤੀ)</strong></strong></strong>. It does not mean ( as you are suggesting) that there are 8.4 million versions of planet earth (ਧਰਤੀਆਂ). The word ਲਖ ਚਉਰਾਸੀਹ is used as an adjective of ਮੇਦਨੀ.</strong></p><p></p><p>I also wonder why you ignored the fact that Gurbani also says that the half of these ਜੰਤ or ਜੋਨਿ are under water:</p><p></p><table style='width: 100%'><tr><td><a href="https://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%86%E0%A8%A8%E0%A9%80%E0%A8%B2%E0%A9%87" target="_blank">ਆਨੀਲੇ </a><a href="https://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%95%E0%A9%81%E0%A9%B0%E0%A8%AD" target="_blank">ਕੁੰਭ </a><a href="https://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AD%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%88%E0%A8%B2%E0%A9%87" target="_blank">ਭਰਾਈਲੇ </a><a href="https://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%8A%E0%A8%A6%E0%A8%95" target="_blank">ਊਦਕ </a><a href="https://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A0%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%95%E0%A9%81%E0%A8%B0" target="_blank">ਠਾਕੁਰ </a><a href="https://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%95%E0%A8%89" target="_blank">ਕਉ </a><a href="https://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%87%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%A8%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%A8%E0%A9%81" target="_blank">ਇਸਨਾਨੁ </a><a href="https://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%95%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%89" target="_blank">ਕਰਉ </a>॥</td></tr><tr><td><a href="https://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AC%E0%A8%87%E0%A8%86%E0%A8%B2%E0%A9%80%E0%A8%B8" target="_blank">ਬਇਆਲੀਸ </a><a href="https://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B2%E0%A8%96" target="_blank">ਲਖ </a><a href="https://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%9C%E0%A9%80" target="_blank">ਜੀ </a><a href="https://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%9C%E0%A8%B2" target="_blank">ਜਲ </a><a href="https://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AE%E0%A8%B9%E0%A8%BF" target="_blank">ਮਹਿ </a><a href="https://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B9%E0%A9%8B%E0%A8%A4%E0%A9%87" target="_blank">ਹੋਤੇ </a><a href="https://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AC%E0%A9%80%E0%A8%A0%E0%A8%B2%E0%A9%81" target="_blank">ਬੀਠਲੁ </a><a href="https://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AD%E0%A9%88%E0%A8%B2%E0%A8%BE" target="_blank">ਭੈਲਾ </a><a href="https://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%95%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%87" target="_blank">ਕਾਇ </a><a href="https://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%95%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%89" target="_blank">ਕਰਉ </a>॥੧॥</td></tr></table><p></p><p></p><p><strong>My conclusion is similar to yours but with a bit of more specificity:</strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p><strong>ਲਖ ਚਉਰਾਸੀਹ ਜੋਨਿ</strong> <strong>means although there are countless life forms ( ਜੂਨੀਆਂ) on this ਧਰਤੀ, they are in the <u>order of 8.4 million</u> and almost half of these life forms exist under water. </strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p><strong>WJKK WJKF</strong></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="P J Singh, post: 224674, member: 25524"] Guru Fetah Ji: Thank you for sharing your paper : “[B]ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਵਿੱਚ ਚੌਰਾਸੀ ਲੱਖ ਦੀ ਗਿਣਤੀ ਦਾ ਭੇਦ” [/B]providing a comprehensive list of Gurbani quotes leading to the conclusion that : [B]ਗੁਰੂ ਸਾਹਿਬਾਨ ਨੇ ਚੌਰਾਸੀ ਲੱਖ ਨੂੰ ਅਣਗਿਣਤ ਧਰਤੀਆਂ, ਜੀਵ ਜੰਤਾਂ ਅਤੇ ਜੂਨੀਆਂ ਦੀ ਸਿੰਬੋਲਕਿ ਬਹੁ ਗਿਣਤੀ ( symbolic reference to the word countless) ਦੇ ਤੌਰ ਤੇ ਵਰਤਿਆ ਹੈ। [/B] I agree with your conclusion that it is a reference to the word “countless”; however, I would submit that the very fact Guru Sahibs (Guru Nanak Sahib, Guru Amardas Ji, Guru Angad Dev Ji and Guru Arjun Sahib) have repeatedly used the word ਚੌਰਾਸੀ ਲੱਖ (8.4 million), there must be some significance of this number besides being a symbolic reference to “countless”. Why did not they use the usual words like ਲਖ , ਅਸੰਖ , ਕੋਟਿ etc that appear throughout Gurbani as a substitute for the word “countless” right from the outset in AGGS: ਸਹਸ ਸਿਆਣਪਾ ਲਖ ਹੋਹਿ ਤ ਇਕ ਨ ਚਲੈ ਨਾਲਿ ਪਾਤਾਲਾ ਪਾਤਾਲ ਲਖ ਆਗਾਸਾ ਆਗਾਸ ਲਖੁ ਲਖੁ ਗੇੜਾ ਆਖੀਅਹਿ ਏਕੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਗਦੀਸ ਕਥਿ ਕਥਿ ਕਥੀ ਕੋਟੀ ਕੋਟਿ ਕੋਟਿ ਕੋਟਿ ਕੋਟੀ ਮੇਰੀ ਆਰਜਾ ਪਵਣੁ ਪੀਅਣੁ ਅਪਿਆਉ ਅਸੰਖ ਜਪ ਅਸੰਖ ਭਾਉ ਅਸੰਖ ਪੂਜਾ ਅਸੰਖ ਤਪ ਤਾਉ ਅਸੰਖ ਗਰੰਥ ਮੁਖਿ ਵੇਦ ਪਾਠ You have narrated the word ਚੌਰਾਸੀ ਲੱਖ in three different contexts: [LIST] [*]ਲਖ ਚਉਰਾਸੀਹ ਮੇਦਨੀ [*]ਲਖ ਚਉਰਾਸੀਹ ਜੰਤ [*]ਲਖ ਚਉਰਾਸੀਹ ਜੋਨਿ [/LIST] To me they all mean the same - ਚਉਰਾਸੀਹ ਲਖ ਜੰਤ or ਜੋਨਿ. [B]I see you have interpreted ਲਖ ਚਉਰਾ[B]ਸੀਹ[/B] ਮੇਦਨੀ as 84 lakh ਧਰਤੀਆਂ. Gurbani is a poetic rendition, I agree with many Gurmat scholars who suggest the meaning of ਲਖ ਚਉਰਾਸੀਹ ਮੇਦਨੀ is that the ਮੇਦਨੀ (ਧਰਤੀ) with 84 lakh species abode or we can say the one that sustains 8.4 million species ([B]ਚਉਰਾ[B]ਸੀਹ [B]ਲਖ ਜੂਨਾ ਵਾਲੀ ਧਰਤੀ)[/B][/B][/B]. It does not mean ( as you are suggesting) that there are 8.4 million versions of planet earth (ਧਰਤੀਆਂ). The word ਲਖ ਚਉਰਾਸੀਹ is used as an adjective of ਮੇਦਨੀ.[/B] I also wonder why you ignored the fact that Gurbani also says that the half of these ਜੰਤ or ਜੋਨਿ are under water: [TABLE] [TR] [TD][URL='https://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%86%E0%A8%A8%E0%A9%80%E0%A8%B2%E0%A9%87']ਆਨੀਲੇ [/URL][URL='https://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%95%E0%A9%81%E0%A9%B0%E0%A8%AD']ਕੁੰਭ [/URL][URL='https://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AD%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%88%E0%A8%B2%E0%A9%87']ਭਰਾਈਲੇ [/URL][URL='https://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%8A%E0%A8%A6%E0%A8%95']ਊਦਕ [/URL][URL='https://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A0%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%95%E0%A9%81%E0%A8%B0']ਠਾਕੁਰ [/URL][URL='https://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%95%E0%A8%89']ਕਉ [/URL][URL='https://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%87%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%A8%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%A8%E0%A9%81']ਇਸਨਾਨੁ [/URL][URL='https://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%95%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%89']ਕਰਉ [/URL]॥[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][URL='https://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AC%E0%A8%87%E0%A8%86%E0%A8%B2%E0%A9%80%E0%A8%B8']ਬਇਆਲੀਸ [/URL][URL='https://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B2%E0%A8%96']ਲਖ [/URL][URL='https://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%9C%E0%A9%80']ਜੀ [/URL][URL='https://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%9C%E0%A8%B2']ਜਲ [/URL][URL='https://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AE%E0%A8%B9%E0%A8%BF']ਮਹਿ [/URL][URL='https://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B9%E0%A9%8B%E0%A8%A4%E0%A9%87']ਹੋਤੇ [/URL][URL='https://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AC%E0%A9%80%E0%A8%A0%E0%A8%B2%E0%A9%81']ਬੀਠਲੁ [/URL][URL='https://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AD%E0%A9%88%E0%A8%B2%E0%A8%BE']ਭੈਲਾ [/URL][URL='https://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%95%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%87']ਕਾਇ [/URL][URL='https://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%95%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%89']ਕਰਉ [/URL]॥੧॥[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] [B]My conclusion is similar to yours but with a bit of more specificity: ਲਖ ਚਉਰਾਸੀਹ ਜੋਨਿ[/B] [B]means although there are countless life forms ( ਜੂਨੀਆਂ) on this ਧਰਤੀ, they are in the [U]order of 8.4 million[/U] and almost half of these life forms exist under water. WJKK WJKF[/B] [/QUOTE]
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