Sikhism And Tattoos

[Archived_Member4]

Re: Are we allowed to have Tattoos and Piercings

Why People Get Tattooed

No, personal experiment for what reason?

 

[Archived_Member4]

Re: Are we allowed to have Tattoos and Piercings

Why Do Normal People Get Tattooed?

That's what i want to know?

 

[spnadmin]

Re: Are we allowed to have Tattoos and Piercings

What is a ritual?

• any customary observance or practice
• of or relating to or characteristic of religious rituals; "ritual killing"
• the prescribed procedure for conducting religious ceremonies
• of or relating to or employed in social rites or rituals; "a ritual dance of Haiti"; "sedate little colonial tribe with its ritual tea parties"- Nadine Gordimer
• stereotyped behavior

So IMHO, I don't think tattoos are a ritual - unless they are customary acts in a society and part of a religious or cultural ceremony.

Can we be intolerant of tattoos if they are part of a culture's religious practices?

Should we use Gurbani to condemn other people who may use tattoos as part of their religious and cultural experience?

 

[spnadmin]

Re: Are we allowed to have Tattoos and Piercings

That's what i want to know?

Did you click on the link -- Link to: Why Do Normal People Get Tattooed?

Here it is http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/7034500.stm

 

[Archived_Member4]

Re: Are we allowed to have Tattoos and Piercings

Did you click on the link Why Do Normal People Get Tattooed?

Here it is BBC NEWS | UK | Magazine | So why do 'normal' people get tattoos?

Tattooing can be done to fit in. In tribal societies where tattooing was done ritually, it often represented a part of the transition from childhood to adulthood and everyone went through this process.

Well that says right off the bat ritually is there even a point of going any further; next point they bring up is about ego. So really either way tattooes and piercings falls into the five theives or its a ritual. Take your pick or pick both LOL

 

[Archived_Member4]

Re: Are we allowed to have Tattoos and Piercings

What is a ritual?

• any customary observance or practice
• of or relating to or characteristic of religious rituals; "ritual killing"
• the prescribed procedure for conducting religious ceremonies
• of or relating to or employed in social rites or rituals; "a ritual dance of Haiti"; "sedate little colonial tribe with its ritual tea parties"- Nadine Gordimer
• stereotyped behavior

So IMHO, I don't think tattoos are a ritual - unless they are customary acts in a society and part of a religious or cultural ceremony.

Can we be intolerant of tattoos if they are part of a culture's religious practices?

Should we use Gurbani to condemn other people who may use tattoos as part of their religious and cultural experience?

Is this how Gurbani defines a ritual?

 

[spnadmin]

Re: Are we allowed to have Tattoos and Piercings

Tattooing can be done to fit in. In tribal societies where tattooing was done ritually, it often represented a part of the transition from childhood to adulthood and everyone went through this process.

Well that says right off the bat ritually is there even a point of going any further; next point they bring up is about ego. So really either way tattooes and piercings falls into the five theives or its a ritual. Take your pick or pick both LOL

Singh ji

So are you saying that we should condemn the religious practices of other cultures? I don't see anything to LOL about here.

We can also extend the discussion to talk about ego. What is ego? Have a care when you answer however because you don't want to set a trap for yourself.

 

[Archived_Member4]

Re: Are we allowed to have Tattoos and Piercings

Is this how Gurbani defines a ritual?

aadji the way you have defined rituals is that the way gurbani defines it?

 

[BhagatSingh]

Re: Are we allowed to have Tattoos and Piercings

Everything Gurbani explains is not directly said. For this Tattoos are rituals and fit into rituals. I am finding it hard to believe aad ji and Bhagat ji, the team are finding it difficult to prove tattoos are not rituals

because we dont give a damn if they are rituals or not. You seem to care so much so why don't you go ahead and explain what rituals are in gurbani and how tattoas are rituals.
EDIT: SHEEESH!!

 

[spnadmin]

Re: Are we allowed to have Tattoos and Piercings

Is this how Gurbani defines a ritual?

Show me where Gurbani offers a definition of a ritual. An actual definition of a ritual, Singh ji. Please do not quote a line or two that uses the word "ritual" but rather a definition of "ritual."

Example: "Oh Nanak! A ritual can be defined as follows." Ang xxx

 

[Archived_Member4]

Re: Are we allowed to have Tattoos and Piercings

because we dont give a damn if they are rituals or not. You seem to care so much so why don't you go ahead and explain what rituals are in gurbani and how tattoas are rituals.
EDIT: SHEEESH!!

HAHAHAHAHHAHA I am surprised you held off this long man LOL :happy::happy:

I think i proved my point unless Aad ji wants to say something else

 

[BhagatSingh]

Re: Are we allowed to have Tattoos and Piercings

HAHAHAHAHHAHA I am surprised you held off this long man LOL :happy::happy:

I think i proved my point unless Aad ji wants to say something else

lol i had that reply written up but i got busy with someone on msn

 

[BhagatSingh]

Re: Are we allowed to have Tattoos and Piercings

I think i proved my point unless Aad ji wants to say something else

For some reason u always think u proved something when in fact u dont prove anything at all.

 

[spnadmin]

Re: Are we allowed to have Tattoos and Piercings

Singh ji, Bhagat ji,

I have to sign off now. But I will go to bed with this shabad in mind.


ਵਖਤੁ ਵੀਚਾਰੇ ਸੁ ਬੰਦਾ ਹੋਇ ॥
vakhath veechaarae s bandhaa hoe ||
One who reflects upon his allotted span of life, becomes the slave of God.

ਕੁਦਰਤਿ ਹੈ ਕੀਮਤਿ ਨਹੀ ਪਾਇ ॥
kudharath hai keemath nehee paae ||
The value of the Creative Power of the Universe cannot be known.

ਜਾ ਕੀਮਤਿ ਪਾਇ ਤ ਕਹੀ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥
jaa keemath paae th kehee n jaae ||
Even if its value were known, it could not be described.

ਸਰੈ ਸਰੀਅਤਿ ਕਰਹਿ ਬੀਚਾਰੁ ॥
sarai sareeath karehi beechaar ||
Some think about religious rituals and regulations,

ਬਿਨੁ ਬੂਝੇ ਕੈਸੇ ਪਾਵਹਿ ਪਾਰੁ ॥
bin boojhae kaisae paavehi paar ||
but without understanding, how can they cross over to the other side?

ਸਿਦਕੁ ਕਰਿ ਸਿਜਦਾ ਮਨੁ ਕਰਿ ਮਖਸੂਦੁ ॥
sidhak kar sijadhaa man kar makhasoodh ||
Let sincere faith be your bowing in prayer, and let the conquest of your mind be your objective in life.

ਜਿਹ ਧਿਰਿ ਦੇਖਾ ਤਿਹ ਧਿਰਿ ਮਉਜੂਦੁ ॥੧॥
jih dhhir dhaekhaa thih dhhir moujoodh ||1||
Wherever I look, there I see God's Presence. ||1||

He is permeating everywhere. He does not condemn rituals. He says become a slave of God. He does stress that understanding is essential. He does stress that sincere faith be the way that we bow in prayer. He does stress that we conquer munn. And He does say that God's Presence is everywhere, everywhere, everywhere, everywhere. So then -- The value of the Creative Power of the Universe cannot be known. This overpowers tattoos and piercings.

Please forgive me for too much chatter.

 

[Archived_Member4]

Re: Are we allowed to have Tattoos and Piercings

Show me where Gurbani offers a definition of a ritual. An actual definition of a ritual, Singh ji. Please do not quote a line or two that uses the word "ritual" but rather a definition of "ritual."

Example: "Oh Nanak! A ritual can be defined as follows." Ang xxx

I won't quote two or three it is easily achievable to obtain the definition of ritual in Gurbani just got to read Gurbani more carefully. In the mean time I have to leave so i'll give you a full definition of a ritual by using Gurbani in my next post. Until then.....

Waheguru Ji ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ka Fateh

 

[spnadmin]

Re: Are we allowed to have Tattoos and Piercings

Singh ji

We will wait for your definition.

 

[Archived_Member4]

Here's Shabads by Bhagat Kabir ji.

GAUREE, KABEER JEE: If Yoga could be obtained by
wandering around naked, then all the deer of the forest would be liberated. || 1 || What does it matter whether someone
goes naked, or wears a deer skin, if he does not remember the Lord within his soul? || 1 || Pause || If the spiritual
perfection of the Siddhas could be obtained by shaving the head, then why haven.t sheep found liberation? || 2 || If
someone could save himself by celibacy, O Siblings of Destiny, why then haven.t eunuchs obtained the state of supreme
dignity? || 3 || Says Kabeer, listen, O men, O Siblings of Destiny: without the Lord.s Name, who has ever found salvation? ||
4 || 4 || GAUREE, KABEER JEE: Those who take their ritual baths in the evening and the morning are like the frogs in the
water. || 1 || When people do not love the Lord.s Name, they must all go to the Righteous Judge of Dharma. || 1 || Pause
|| Those who love their bodies and try different looks, do not feel compassion, even in dreams. || 2 || The wise men call
them four-footed creatures; the Holy find peace in this ocean of pain. || 3 || Says Kabeer, why do you perform so many
rituals? Renounce everything, and drink in the supreme essence of the Lord. || 4 || 5 || GAUREE, KABEER JEE: What use is
chanting, and what use is penance, fasting or devotional worship, to one whose heart is filled with the love of duality? || 1 ||
O humble people, link your mind to the Lord. Through cleverness, the four-armed Lord is not obtained. || 1 || Pause || Set
aside your greed and worldly ways. Set aside sexual desire, anger and egotism. || 2 || Ritual practices bind people in
egotism; meeting together, they worship stones. || 3 || Says Kabeer, He is obtained only by devotional worship. Through​

innocent love, the Lord is met. || 4 || 6 || ang 324

 

[BhagatSingh]

Here's Shabads by Bhagat Kabir ji.

GAUREE, KABEER JEE: If Yoga could be obtained by
wandering around naked, then all the deer of the forest would be liberated. || 1 || What does it matter whether someone
goes naked, or wears a deer skin, if he does not remember the Lord within his soul? || 1 || Pause || ​

Same could be said for hair. NO point in having hair if you don't remember the Lord.
Not just hair but any outward display.

If the spiritual
perfection of the Siddhas could be obtained by shaving the head, then why haven.t sheep found liberation? || 2 ||

If the spiritual perfection could be obtained by keeping uncut hair then why haven't all the animals found liberation and what about women, rastafarians, sikhs, sadhus and so on ? :shifty:

If
someone could save himself by celibacy, O Siblings of Destiny, why then haven.t eunuchs obtained the state of supreme
dignity? || 3 || Says Kabeer, listen, O men, O Siblings of Destiny: without the Lord.s Name, who has ever found salvation? ||

Exactly! Lords name is more important! I can't stress that enough.

4 || 4 || GAUREE, KABEER JEE: Those who take their ritual baths in the evening and the morning are like the frogs in the
water. || 1 || When people do not love the Lord.s Name, they must all go to the Righteous Judge of Dharma. || 1 || Pause
|| Those who love their bodies and try different looks, do not feel compassion, even in dreams. || 2 || The wise men call
them four-footed creatures; the Holy find peace in this ocean of pain. || 3 || Says Kabeer, why do you perform so many
rituals? Renounce everything, and drink in the supreme essence of the Lord. || 4 || 5 ||

Ya renounce everything! Dont worry about things like long or short, cut or uncut, hair or anything else.

GAUREE, KABEER JEE: What use is
chanting, and what use is penance, fasting or devotional worship, to one whose heart is filled with the love of duality? || 1 ||

I add what is the use for keeping long , uncut hair, ", to one whose heart is filled with the love of duality?"

O humble people, link your mind to the Lord. Through cleverness, the four-armed Lord is not obtained. || 1 || Pause || Set
aside your greed and worldly ways. Set aside sexual desire, anger and egotism. || 2 || Ritual practices bind people in
egotism; meeting together, they worship stones. || 3 || Says Kabeer, He is obtained only by devotional worship. Through​

innocent love, the Lord is met. || 4 || 6 || ang 324

 

[Archived_Member4]

Quote:
4 || 4 || GAUREE, KABEER JEE: Those who take their ritual baths in the evening and the morning are like the frogs in the
water. || 1 || When people do not love the Lord.s Name, they must all go to the Righteous Judge of Dharma. || 1 || Pause
|| Those who love their bodies and try different looks, do not feel compassion, even in dreams. || 2 || The wise men call
them four-footed creatures; the Holy find peace in this ocean of pain. || 3 || Says Kabeer, why do you perform so many
rituals? Renounce everything, and drink in the supreme essence of the Lord. || 4 || 5 ||

Ya renounce everything! Dont worry about things like long or short, cut or uncut, hair or anything else.

Its best you rethink what this shabad is actually saying!

 

[BhagatSingh]

Quote:
4 || 4 || GAUREE, KABEER JEE: Those who take their ritual baths in the evening and the morning are like the frogs in the
water. || 1 || When people do not love the Lord.s Name, they must all go to the Righteous Judge of Dharma. || 1 || Pause
|| Those who love their bodies and try different looks, do not feel compassion, even in dreams. || 2 || The wise men call
them four-footed creatures; the Holy find peace in this ocean of pain. || 3 || Says Kabeer, why do you perform so many
rituals? Renounce everything, and drink in the supreme essence of the Lord. || 4 || 5 ||

Ya renounce everything! Dont worry about things like long or short, cut or uncut, hair or anything else.

Its best you rethink what this shabad is actually saying!

I have explained it above. You can't take my quotes and gurbani quotes (or any other quote for that matter) out of context, it kills the meaning.