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Understanding Gurbani

Discussion in 'Gurmat Vichaar' started by Sikh80, Dec 17, 2007.

  1. Sikh80

    Sikh80
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    Dear friends

    I am making this post to go round second time. Shall be oblidged if meaning of the above is clarified by anyone.
     
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  3. spnadmin

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    Sikh80ji

    Actually there may not be an "explanation" but rather an understanding. These lines require an authentic veechar -- which is a deeper undertaking. My opinion of course.
     
  4. Sikh80

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    Respected aad ji,
    I am not sure as to how to arrive at contemplation of these words unless one can enthread the ideas behind the lines.
    As the words require clarification is 'true', it is talking about the True merchandis/genuine Article and true capital should be that we earn or possess. We do not make tru capital without Simran.Hence true capital would be the time that we are allowed to spend in simran/chanting/meditation etc..
    Kindly correct me.
     
  5. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Sikh80

    What I am saying is that a quick explanation doesn't do the bani justice.
     
  6. Sikh80

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    In that case would you be nice enough if you could kindly share the concepts that you have built. It may be thru. PM if you prefer.
    As per your convenience only.
     
  7. Randip Singh

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    Sikh80 ji.

    Can I make a suggestion. When we post one or two times from an Ang we lose the meaning. Post the entire Ang/Shabad/Mehla and then we can discuss my friend. Do not forget page numbers.

    Thanks.
     
  8. Archived_member2

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    Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
    Dear all and Sikh80 Jee!

    Thanks for the wonderful reference from Gurdev's Vaaks.

    So many translations are available in the market. May I ask which one is the best liked by Sikh public?


    Balbir Singh
     
  9. Sikh80

    Sikh80
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    Rrspected Randip ji/Balbir ji
    AS desired I am giving below the lines from SGGS ji,Ang 18.The specific lines are colored.


    isrIrwgu mhlw 1 ] (18-4)
    Siree Raag, First Mehl:
    BlI srI ij aubrI haumY mueI Grwhu ] (18-4, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
    It all worked out-I was saved, and the egotism within my heart was subdued.
    dUq lgy iPir cwkrI siqgur kw vyswhu ] (18-4, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
    The evil energies have been made to serve me, since I placed my faith in the True Guru.
    klp iqAwgI bwid hY scw vyprvwhu ]1] (18-5, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
    I have renounced my useless schemes, by the Grace of the True, Carefree Lord. ||1||
    mn ry scu imlY Bau jwie ] (18-5, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
    O mind, meeting with the True One, fear departs.
    BY ibnu inrBau ikau QIAY gurmuiK sbid smwie ]1] rhwau ] (18-6, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
    Without the Fear of God, how can anyone become fearless? Become Gurmukh, and immerse yourself in the Shabad. ||1||Pause||
    kyqw AwKxu AwKIAY AwKix qoit n hoie ] (18-6, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
    How can we describe Him with words? There is no end to the descriptions of Him.
    mMgx vwly kyqVy dwqw eyko soie ] (18-7, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
    There are so many beggars, but He is the only Giver.
    ijs ky jIA prwx hY min visAY suKu hoie ]2] (18-7, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
    He is the Giver of the soul, and the praanaa, the breath of life; when He dwells within the mind, there is peace. ||2||
    jgu supnw bwjI bnI iKn mih Kylu Kylwie ] (18-8, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
    The world is a drama, staged in a dream. In a moment, the play is played out.
    sMjogI imil eyksy ivjogI auiT jwie ] (18-8, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
    Some attain union with the Lord, while others depart in separation.
    jo iqsu Bwxw so QIAY Avru n krxw jwie ]3] (18-9, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
    Whatever pleases Him comes to pass; nothing else can be done. ||3||
    gurmuiK vsqu vyswhIAY scu vKru scu rwis ] (18-9, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
    The Gurmukhs purchase the Genuine Article. The True Merchandise is purchased with the True Capital.
    ijnI scu vxMijAw gur pUry swbwis ] (18-10, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
    Those who purchase this True Merchandise through the Perfect Guru are blessed.
    nwnk vsqu pCwxsI scu saudw ijsu pwis ]4]11] (18-10, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
    O Nanak, one who stocks this True Merchandise shall recognize and realize the Genuine Article. ||4||11||
     
  10. Archived_member2

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    Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
    Dear all and Sikh80 Jee!

    Thanks for your efforts providing the translation.

    gurmuiK vsqu vyswhIAY scu vKru scu rwis ] (18-9, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
    The Gurmukhs purchase the Genuine Article. The True Merchandise is purchased with the True Capital.
    ijnI scu vxMijAw gur pUry swbwis ] (18-10, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
    Those who purchase this True Merchandise through the Perfect Guru are blessed.

    The translation of the first Vaak provided is "The Gurmukhs purchase the Genuine Article. The True Merchandise is purchased with the True Capital."
    It is the contemplation. The true Guru provides the genuine Thing (Vasatu). This is true Naam. May I ask who preached Sikhs that one can purchase the true Naam?
    Also, true capital grows with the Naam Simran. Strange, some possess it, all ready to buy true Naam.

    The translation of the next Vaak provided is "Those who purchase this True Merchandise through the Perfect Guru are blessed."
    Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee is the perfect Guru as preachers try to convince all Sikhs. I cannot imagine He is the perfect Guru who has placed the thick iron box (golak) to keep the sales safe from culprits. Some visitors may be feeling blessed offering a part of their mayic earnings though.

    I feel the business oriented dealings in the world has inspired the translator.


    Balbir Singh
     
  11. Sikh80

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    Thanks Balbir ji for a wonderful explanation.

    1.The line refers to purchase.It means an exchange of one thing for the Naam.[true merchandise] If Gurmukh gets naam he must have some true capital. This true capital is the simran.

    2. The second lines states that the process of purchas eis thru. the Guru.{perfect Guru]

    You have put in some questions in the post. Yes, It SGGS ji that tells us that we should have naam else we waste the life.
     
  12. Sikh80

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    One way of looking at the above could be that we have given precious breath or Pranas in this life ,it can be also our true capital. It is with this capital of limited Time [ Limited Breaths] that one carryout Simran and earn the true thing Naam thru. perfect Guru.
    Balbir ji, Incidentally SGGS ji or God HImself is our Guru. It is thru. SGGS that we attain the Naam of lord and then contemplate on this.
     
  13. Archived_member2

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    Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
    Dear all and Sikh80 Jee!

    Quote "1.The line refers to purchase.It means an exchange of one thing for the Naam.[true merchandise] If Gurmukh gets naam he must have some true capital. This true capital is the simran."
    I do not find any word in the great Vaak from Gurdev that one can translate purchase.
    Also, one receives Naam first. Simran begins. The true capital starts growing.

    Quote "2. The second lines states that the process of purchas eis thru. the Guru.{perfect Guru]"
    Please explain. Which words are translated 'the process of purchase'?

    Quote "You have put in some questions in the post. Yes, It SGGS ji that tells us that we should have naam else we waste the life."
    This is right. Does Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee also tells us to purchase the Naam else we waste the life?

    Quote "However, the basic question that arises is if already one is engaged in simran of 'waheguru' [the naam] what will one get."
    This is interesting. Not only Sikhs many others know also now that 'Waheguru' is the Naam. Thanks to the advertising techniques of the Sikh preachers. Still, the number of forums is increasing to discuss what is Naam.

    Quote "In such an eventuality the meaning of the above two lines will need a change as one has already a 'naam'."
    The essence of each Vaak from the true Gurus remains the same. The translators go on changing the meanings according to their developed consciousness.

    **************

    Quote "One way of looking at the above could be that we have given precious breath or Pranas in this life ,it can be also our true capital."
    This is an illusion. No ego has ever given precious breath or Pranas. Ego is not the owner of this domain either.

    Quote "It is with this capital of limited Time [ Limited Breaths] that one carryout Simran and earn the true thing Naam thru. perfect Guru."
    I hope some have understood it and nothing is missing now.

    Quote "Incidentally SGGS ji or God HImself is our Guru."
    God is ONE. Please experience ONE in anyONE. The word 'or' vanishes then.

    Quote "It is thru. SGGS that we attain the Naam of lord and then contemplate on this."
    Did Gurdev ever confirm that SGGS is the giver of the Naam of Lord?


    Balbir Singh
     
  14. Sikh80

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    Dear Balbir ji,
    Your first post was nice.
    The second is confusing the issue as my comments and your comments have got mixed up. Yes, it is in SGGS ji that we get the knowledge that one's life is wasted without Naam.
    Further wahguru is naam , it is the way I have conceptualised.
    Please give your answer independently not in the form of line by line analysis.
     
  15. simpy

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    FORGIVE ME BALBIR JI (for the interruption from me neech)

    Your words :
    in contrast to all the rest of your post my question to you is:

    HOW COME 'GURDEV' IS DIFFERENT THAN DHAN DHAN SGGS JI, AND NEED A CONFIRMATION TO BE __________??????????





    humbly asking for everybody's forgiveness
     
  16. Sikh80

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    I think For sikhs it is true that only SGGS ji or The GOD Himself can be the Guru.

    1. SGGS ji is 'sabad guru' and contains bani that is treated as Nirankaar[ bani Nirankaar Hey] Hence 'Sabad guru' is also Nirankaar.
    2.In nutshell LOrd HImself is the Guru.
     
  17. Archived_member2

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    Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
    Dear all and Sikh80 Jee!

    Quote "Yes, it is in SGGS ji that we get the knowledge that one's life is wasted without Naam."
    This is truth, but why some translators are saying that one can purchase true Naam?

    Quote "Further wahguru is naam , it is the way I have conceptualised."
    Gurdev never said that 'Waheguru' was Naam. Please provide one reference if someone has found it different.

    Quote "Please give your answer independently not in the form of line by line analysis."
    The true Guru provides One Naam. Everything else becomes clear.
    Strange, many go on reading line after line and ask what is Naam.

    This is another translation of the wonderful Vaaks from Gurdev available on Internet.

    gurmuiK vsqu vyswhIAY scu vKru scu rwis ] (18-9, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
    Through the Guru, purchase the Divine commodity. The True merchandise is bought with the true Capital.

    ijnI scu vxMijAw gur pUry swbwis ] (18-10, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
    Hail ! unto those, who, through the Perfect Guru, have pruchased the True Name.

    I want to ask what kind of bargaining is in progress between the buyer and the seller that a transaction still has not taken place.

    **************

    Quote from Surinder Jee "HOW COME 'GURDEV' IS DIFFERENT THAN DHAN DHAN SGGS JI, AND NEED A CONFIRMATION TO BE __________??????????"
    The true Gurus wrote Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee so that everybody can confirm the same truth experiencing true Naam Simran and progressing with it at consciousness.
    This is but not possible when someone is engaged in activities that Gurdev never wrote and suggested.
    Did the true Gurus ever write that their writings are Satgur?

    Please listen. Gurdev is singing.

    ibnu siqgur hir nwmu n lBeI lK kotI krm kmwau ]2]
    "bin satgur hari naam na labha-ee lakh kotee karam kamaa-o. ||2|| " SGGS Ang 40-15

    Strange, many possess the Guru's Writings and feel that they are owning Satgur, engaging them in koti karam around it.

    The True Guru and His Words are Truth and the Same.

    **************

    Quote from Sikh80 Jee "SGGS ji is 'sabad guru' and contains bani that is treated as Nirankaar[ bani Nirankaar Hey] Hence 'Sabad guru' is also Nirankaar."
    Have I understood it correctly? SGGS Jee is 'Sabad Guru'. 'Sabad Guru' is nirankaar. So SGGS Jee is Nirankaar.
    Nirankaar means without any form or shape (akaar). SGGS Jee but has a form and shape too.


    Balbir Singh
     
  18. Sikh80

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    I have not gone thru. your line by line analysis that does not make sense to me. But 'Nirankaar' is not 'Niraakar' with which you seem to be confused.These are two separate words. It Is 'Niraakar' that means without form.
    inr;karu​
    nirankaar​
    The Formless One, God

    Pl. correct the translation given by you. Your post is not very relevant. I am happy without any further clarification as I have ,in the meantime , referred to the meaning in Sahib singh ji. I also observe that the tone of your post does not speak well of Guru sahibs. May be I am wrong.
     
  19. Sikh80

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    It is better to spend time oneself and arrive at the meaning. It is of no use to post the doubts for clarifications.
     
  20. Sikh80

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    ਸਬਦੁ ਬੀਚਾਰਿ ਭਏ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰੀ ॥
    सबदु बीचारि भए निरंकारी ॥

    Sabaḏ bīcẖār bẖa­ė nirankārī.
    Contemplating the Shabad, we become Nirankaari - we come to belong to the Formless Lord God.

    [ Nirankaar refers to Formless god- Yes Granth sahib ji has a form. But it is Nirankaar, the formless god.]
    Kindly do not play mental tricks.]
     
    #19 Sikh80, Dec 19, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016
  21. Sikh80

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    I am posting the entire shabad for the benefit of all.


    ਰਾਮਕਲੀ ਮਹਲਾ
    रामकली महला १ ॥
    Rāmkalī mehlā 1.
    Raamkalee, First Mehl:
    ਖਟੁ ਮਟੁ ਦੇਹੀ ਮਨੁ ਬੈਰਾਗੀ
    खटु मटु देही मनु बैरागी ॥
    Kẖat mat ḏėhī man bairāgī.
    Above the six chakras of the body dwells the detached mind.
    ਸੁਰਤਿ ਸਬਦੁ ਧੁਨਿ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਜਾਗੀ
    सुरति सबदु धुनि अंतरि जागी ॥
    Suraṯ sabaḏ ḏẖun anṯar jāgī.
    Awareness of the vibration of the Word of the Shabad has been awakened deep within.
    ਵਾਜੈ ਅਨਹਦੁ ਮੇਰਾ ਮਨੁ ਲੀਣਾ
    वाजै अनहदु मेरा मनु लीणा ॥
    vājai anhaḏ mėrā man līṇā.
    The unstruck melody of the sound current resonates and resounds within; my mind is attuned to it.
    ਗੁਰ ਬਚਨੀ ਸਚਿ ਨਾਮਿ ਪਤੀਣਾ ॥੧॥
    गुर बचनी सचि नामि पतीणा ॥१॥
    Gur bacẖnī sacẖ nām paṯīṇā. ||1||
    Through the Guru's Teachings, my faith is confirmed in the True Name. ||1||
    ਪ੍ਰਾਣੀ ਰਾਮ ਭਗਤਿ ਸੁਖੁ ਪਾਈਐ
    प्राणी राम भगति सुखु पाईऐ ॥
    Parāṇī rām bẖagaṯ sukẖ pā­ī­ai.
    O mortal, through devotion to the Lord, peace is obtained.
    ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਮੀਠਾ ਲਾਗੈ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮਿ ਸਮਾਈਐ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ
    गुरमुखि हरि हरि मीठा लागै हरि हरि नामि समाईऐ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
    Gurmukẖ har har mīṯẖā lāgai har har nām samā­ī­ai. ||1|| rahā­o.
    The Lord, Har, Har, seems sweet to the Gurmukh, who merges in the Name of the Lord, Har, Har. ||1||Pause||
    ਮਾਇਆ ਮੋਹੁ ਬਿਵਰਜਿ ਸਮਾਏ
    माइआ मोहु बिवरजि समाए ॥
    Mā­i­ā moh bivaraj samā­ė.
    Eradicating attachment to Maya, one merges into the Lord.
    ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਭੇਟੈ ਮੇਲਿ ਮਿਲਾਏ
    सतिगुरु भेटै मेलि मिलाए ॥
    Saṯgur bẖėtai mėl milā­ė.
    Meeting with the True Guru, we unite in His Union.
    ਨਾਮੁ ਰਤਨੁ ਨਿਰਮੋਲਕੁ ਹੀਰਾ
    नामु रतनु निरमोलकु हीरा ॥
    Nām raṯan nirmolak hīrā.
    The Naam, the Name of the Lord, is a priceless jewel, a diamond.
    ਤਿਤੁ ਰਾਤਾ ਮੇਰਾ ਮਨੁ ਧੀਰਾ ॥੨॥
    तितु राता मेरा मनु धीरा ॥२॥
    Ŧiṯ rāṯā mėrā man ḏẖīrā. ||2||
    Attuned to it, the mind is comforted and encouraged. ||2||
    ਹਉਮੈ ਮਮਤਾ ਰੋਗੁ ਲਾਗੈ
    हउमै ममता रोगु न लागै ॥
    Ha­umai mamṯā rog na lāgai.
    The diseases of egotism and possessiveness do not afflict
    ਰਾਮ ਭਗਤਿ ਜਮ ਕਾ ਭਉ ਭਾਗੈ
    राम भगति जम का भउ भागै ॥
    Rām bẖagaṯ jam kā bẖa­o bẖāgai.
    one who worships the Lord. Fear of the Messenger of Death runs away.
    ਜਮੁ ਜੰਦਾਰੁ ਲਾਗੈ ਮੋਹਿ
    जमु जंदारु न लागै मोहि ॥
    Jam janḏār na lāgai mohi.
    The Messenger of Death, the enemy of the soul, does not touch me at all.
    ਨਿਰਮਲ ਨਾਮੁ ਰਿਦੈ ਹਰਿ ਸੋਹਿ ॥੩॥
    निरमल नामु रिदै हरि सोहि ॥३॥
    Nirmal nām riḏai har sohi. ||3||
    The Immaculate Name of the Lord illuminates my heart. ||3||
    ਸਬਦੁ ਬੀਚਾਰਿ ਭਏ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰੀ
    सबदु बीचारि भए निरंकारी ॥
    Sabaḏ bīcẖār bẖa­ė nirankārī.
    Contemplating the Shabad, we become Nirankaari - we come to belong to the Formless Lord God.
    ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਜਾਗੇ ਦੁਰਮਤਿ ਪਰਹਾਰੀ
    गुरमति जागे दुरमति परहारी ॥
    Gurmaṯ jāgė ḏurmaṯ parhārī.
    Awakening to the Guru's Teachings, evil-mindedness is taken away.
    ਅਨਦਿਨੁ ਜਾਗਿ ਰਹੇ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਈ
    अनदिनु जागि रहे लिव लाई ॥
    An­ḏin jāg rahė liv lā­ī.
    Remaining awake and aware night and day, lovingly focused on the Lord,
    ਜੀਵਨ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਗਤਿ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਪਾਈ ॥੪॥
    जीवन मुकति गति अंतरि पाई ॥४॥
    Jīvan mukaṯ gaṯ anṯar pā­ī. ||4||
    one becomes Jivan Mukta - liberated while yet alive. He finds this state deep within himself. ||4||
    ਅਲਿਪਤ ਗੁਫਾ ਮਹਿ ਰਹਹਿ ਨਿਰਾਰੇ
    अलिपत गुफा महि रहहि निरारे ॥
    Alipaṯ gufā meh raheh nirārė.
    In the secluded cave, I remain unattached.
    ਤਸਕਰ ਪੰਚ ਸਬਦਿ ਸੰਘਾਰੇ
    तसकर पंच सबदि संघारे ॥
    Ŧaskar pancẖ sabaḏ sangẖārė.
    With the Word of the Shabad, I have killed the five thieves.
    ਪਰ ਘਰ ਜਾਇ ਮਨੁ ਡੋਲਾਏ
    पर घर जाइ न मनु डोलाए ॥
    Par gẖar jā­ė na man dolā­ė.
    My mind does not waver or go to the home of any other.
    ਸਹਜ ਨਿਰੰਤਰਿ ਰਹਉ ਸਮਾਏ ॥੫॥
    सहज निरंतरि रहउ समाए ॥५॥
    Sahj niranṯar raha­o samā­ė. ||5||
    I remain intuitively absorbed deep within. ||5||
    ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਜਾਗਿ ਰਹੇ ਅਉਧੂਤਾ
    गुरमुखि जागि रहे अउधूता ॥
    Gurmukẖ jāg rahė a­uḏẖūṯā.
    As Gurmukh, I remain awake and aware, unattached.
    ਸਦ ਬੈਰਾਗੀ ਤਤੁ ਪਰੋਤਾ
    सद बैरागी ततु परोता ॥
    Saḏ bairāgī ṯaṯ paroṯā.
    Forever detached, I am woven into the essence of reality.
    ਜਗੁ ਸੂਤਾ ਮਰਿ ਆਵੈ ਜਾਇ
    जगु सूता मरि आवै जाइ ॥
    Jag sūṯā mar āvai jā­ė.
    The world is asleep; it dies, and comes and goes in reincarnation.
    ਬਿਨੁ ਗੁਰ ਸਬਦ ਸੋਝੀ ਪਾਇ ॥੬॥
    बिनु गुर सबद न सोझी पाइ ॥६॥
    Bin gur sabaḏ na sojẖī pā­ė. ||6||
    Without the Word of the Guru's Shabad, it does not understand. ||6||
    ਅਨਹਦ ਸਬਦੁ ਵਜੈ ਦਿਨੁ ਰਾਤੀ
    अनहद सबदु वजै दिनु राती ॥
    Anhaḏ sabaḏ vajai ḏin rāṯī.
    The unstruck sound current of the Shabad vibrates day and night.
    ਅਵਿਗਤ ਕੀ ਗਤਿ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਜਾਤੀ
    अविगत की गति गुरमुखि जाती ॥
    Avigaṯ kī gaṯ gurmukẖ jāṯī.
    The Gurmukh knows the state of the eternal, unchanging Lord God.
    ਤਉ ਜਾਨੀ ਜਾ ਸਬਦਿ ਪਛਾਨੀ
    तउ जानी जा सबदि पछानी ॥
    Ŧa­o jānī jā sabaḏ pacẖẖānī.
    When someone realizes the Shabad, then he truly knows.
    ਏਕੋ ਰਵਿ ਰਹਿਆ ਨਿਰਬਾਨੀ ॥੭॥
    एको रवि रहिआ निरबानी ॥७॥
    Ėko rav rahi­ā nirbānī. ||7||
    The One Lord is permeating and pervading everywhere in Nirvaanaa. ||7||
    ਸੁੰਨ ਸਮਾਧਿ ਸਹਜਿ ਮਨੁ ਰਾਤਾ
    सुंन समाधि सहजि मनु राता ॥
    Sunn samāḏẖ sahj man rāṯā.
    My mind is intuitively absorbed in the state of deepest Samaadhi;
    ਤਜਿ ਹਉ ਲੋਭਾ ਏਕੋ ਜਾਤਾ
    तजि हउ लोभा एको जाता ॥
    Ŧaj ha­o lobẖā ėko jāṯā.
    renouncing egotism and greed, I have come to know the One Lord.
    ਗੁਰ ਚੇਲੇ ਅਪਨਾ ਮਨੁ ਮਾਨਿਆ
    गुर चेले अपना मनु मानिआ ॥
    Gur cẖėlė apnā man māni­ā.
    When the disciple's mind accepts the Guru,
    ਨਾਨਕ ਦੂਜਾ ਮੇਟਿ ਸਮਾਨਿਆ ॥੮॥੩॥
    नानक दूजा मेटि समानिआ ॥८॥३॥
    Nānak ḏūjā mėt samāni­ā. ||8||3||
    O Nanak, duality is eradicated, and he merges in the Lord. ||8||3||
     
    #20 Sikh80, Dec 19, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016

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