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Pacific Miraculous Sign at Sikh Temple, Or ...Is It Another Sign of Sikh Gullibility with Miracles??

Discussion in 'Breaking News' started by Chaan Pardesi, Apr 17, 2011.

  1. Chaan Pardesi

    Chaan Pardesi
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    Images: A close up of the image compared with a metal symbol

    Women at Gurdwara Sahib Serdang Lama looking at the Khanda image on the rumala.

    KUALA LUMPUR: The appearance of a Khanda image, Sikhism's holy symbol, at Gurdwara Sahib Serdang Lama has set the Sikh community abuzz with excitement.

    The image was seen forming on the rumala, a yellow cloth covering Sikhism's holy book, the Guru Granth Sahib.

    Temple priest Guridtta Singh, an Indian national who has been here for 11/2 years, said this was the first time he had seen such a phenomenon. He said he never heard of such incidents in India or any where else in the world.

    Guru Gobind Singh Ji was the 10th and last human Sikh Guru who completed writing the Sikh holy book, the Dasam Granth. He also declared the Guru Granth Sahib as the next permanent Sikh Guru.

    The incident unfolded on the last day of the three-day prayer recitation in celebration of Vaisakhi, the start of the Sikh new year and the birth of the Khalsa Brotherhood founded by Guru Gobind Singh.

    Private tutor Jasvinder Kaur, 38, said she went to the gurdwara on Thursday with a garland of flowers but could not enter the temple as she was not properly dressed.

    She handed the garland to a devotee named Manjit Kaur to place it above the rumala. The rumala was presented by another devotee, Kawalpreet Kaur, 57, who had used it for her son's wedding in February.

    Legal secretary Jasvinder Kaur, 45, said after the garland was placed, drops of water fell onto the rumala and formed a patch resembling the Khanda.

    "From about 8.30pm, there was lightning and thunder as devotees were reciting prayers. As we completed our prayers, I looked up after bowing to Guru Granth Sahib and I saw with amazement the Khanda forming on the rumala."

    There was also a smaller image of the Khanda on the lower left side of the cloth.

    Another unusual incident was the appearance of a black bird at the temple early the next morning (Friday), which flew onto the palki, a cabinet where the Guru Granth Sahib was kept.

    The bird then bowed to the holy book and flew to the dining hall for a sip of water before flying off.

    The women explained that they believed the bird was a messenger of Guru Gobind Singh as he always had a bird on his right arm.

    To honour this occurrence, the temple conducted a 12-hour prayer session from 7am yesterday.

    So far, some 300 devotees had flocked to the 97-year-old temple and more were expected to come as word gets around.


    Read more: Miraculous sign at Sikh temple http://www.nst.com.my/nst/articles/17kha-2/Article/#ixzz1JmZjz8cy


    Gurcharan Singh Kulim, Chigwel, London, UK
     

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  3. Randip Singh

    Randip Singh
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    Gullibility!!!

    I have a tea stain on my T shirt that looks a bit like an Ek Onkar, maybe they want to worship that too?
     
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  4. Chaan Pardesi

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    Thank You veer Randip Singh, Ji.

    The explanation is very simple.I wonder if people have heard of Oxidation?
    Oxidation is defined as the interaction between oxygen molecules and all the different substances they may come into with contact, from metal to living tissue. Technically, however, with the discovery of electrons, oxidation came to be more precisely defined as the loss of at least one electron when two or more substances interact. Those substances may or may not include oxygen. (Incidentally, the opposite of oxidation is reduction — the addition of at least one electron when substances come into contact with each other.) Sometimes oxidation is not such a bad thing, as in the formation of super-durable anodized aluminum Other times, oxidation can be destructive, such as the rusting of an automobile or the spoiling of fresh fruit.

    But in case of material, once the material has been broken,tampered left for prolonged periods in an enclosed environment or sat upon or impressed with , then the individual cells of the area of the material come in direct contact with air and the oxygen molecules start burning them. The result is a form of rust we see as brownish spots or blemishes- these blemishes on cloth can leave an impression- as we can see whne comes in contact with water and oxygen creates the impressed image on it .The rumalla cloth must have been folded for ages with perhaps a metal khanda and left in a cupboard or trunk with weight upon it ...until used now.

    But who will explain this to the gullible Sikhs?Will they believe when such an explanation is given?

    Who followed the bird that was seeking food and moving its head forever back and forth; then followed it into the dining hall and watched it drink water...?In tropical countries birds will fly in through the very many open spaces and rest on wooden perches...I have seen this many many times....and then fly out again...perhaps get adrink of water on its way .......during my last visit to malaysia, I saw a brid fly into the open darbar sahib of Klang Gurduara and then after some time fly out again...was that bird there to bless the wedding, or simply an invited or uninvited guest?

    What next?I have seen a dent on my friends car that looks like the image of a gursikh with flowing beard.....shall we turn that into an image of prayer?


    Gurcharan Singh, Kulim
     
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  5. Ambarsaria

    Ambarsaria Canada
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    I suggest wash the Rumala fast before more ignorance is spread.

    I don't want to say much about Guridtta Singh but I wonder why he is allowed to sit in "Tabbia" (in attendance of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji) if his beliefs are against what Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji teaches us. Very very strange people.

    Sat Sri Akal.
     
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  6. Admin Singh

    Admin Singh
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    @Randip Singh ji!lol
     
  7. kertar

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    Sat sri akaal

    Dear friends

    you need to understand gurbani it is not science the science we are talking about today have been taught by Guru Nanak 500 years ago so don't get carry away by how smart you are. please try to understand Gurbani and you will know what I am saying,
    Thank you
    Kertar Singh
    Kuala Lumpur
     
  8. Ambarsaria

    Ambarsaria Canada
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    Kertar Singh ji welcome to spn and your first post.

    I hope you don't have any issues with removing the stain from the rumala? Rumalas should be cleaned as necessary and if cannot be cleaned should be discarded as well.

    Sat Sri Akal.
     
  9. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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    The so called miracle can become a turning point for many people. Where many preachers have failed to transform the Sikhs from partaking Khande Di Pahul, this oxidation process can transform them. What's wrong with leaving it as a 'miracle'?

    I see miracles everyday. My life is full of miracles. My life as a Sikh is a miracle.
     
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  10. Ambarsaria

    Ambarsaria Canada
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    Actions based on falsehood can only propagate falsehood.

    Oh learned one why you are trying to unlearn over such foolishness!

    Sat Sri Akal.
     
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  11. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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    It is a state of mind, not falsehood. No one planted the magic show there. It just happened. Not all people are educated to the extent that they can see through such miracles. In a way blind faith and theory are the same thing. For e.g. scientists are blind faith followers of the big bang theory. They can't prove it, so they have this assumption.
     
  12. Ambarsaria

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  13. Chaan Pardesi

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    Originally Posted by kertar [​IMG]
    Sat sri akaal

    """Kertar Singh says..

    Dear kertar Singh Ji, if I may ask you some explanation of your above.

    1]How do you measure one understands Gurbani enough to say it is not science as well, or whatever are you trying to explain

    2]what type of "the science we are talking about today have been taught by Guru Nanak 500 years ago"and how do you again gauge someone is not carried away between Gurbani and science; when in one breath you say it was taught by Guru nanak Ji 549 years ago?

    3]Please explain, "please try to understand Gurbani and you will know what I am saying"...that is exactly what I do not understand.What are you trying to say?



    For the attention of the readers...There have been two similar incidents in the Panth.One took place in 1947 and the other took place in 1985.But I shall narrate and expand upon that later, once Kertar Singh ji explains what he sat out to explain, but not the quite completed it.Perhaps, Gurditta Singh ji 's help can be enlisted as well to explain.

    However from his short missive it looks he is not comfortable with the views of others over this subject.

    Gurcharan Singh Kulim, Kota Kamuning, Kuala Lumpur.
     
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  14. Ambarsaria

    Ambarsaria Canada
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    namjap ji there is a saying,

    I give up conversing with you on falsehoods, blind faith and miracles. To each their own.

    Enjoy your journey.

    Sat Sri Akal.
     
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  15. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    The oxidation process is setting a future stage for Gurbani-related activities to take place. Wouldn't it be wonderful to be totally and emotionally involved in a Kirtan Darbar where ragis giving explanations of other miracles, can bring tears into people's eyes. It can be a turning point for many to really pursue Sikhism with seriousness.

    Do you believe in the miracle of the Panj Pyare ?
     
  16. Harwinder

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    Napjap ji i agree this is a state of mind for everything is a state or mind, Falsehood is something that is purposly done. We dont or cannot assume anything to the point that it was purposly done or not.

    This "MIRCALE" by the "Guru ji" That has brought the community together to ponder upon this inciddent. May it be a blessing or not.

    Lets just be thankfull for it being a reason for people coming closer to shri guru granth saib ji and leave it at that.

    EVEN though we should not need a reason in the first PLACE it should be desire to learn.
     
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  17. Harwinder

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    However i do believe in Ambersaria jis theory of falsehood if it were done on purpose by someone
     
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  18. Randip Singh

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    What miracle do you mean?

    The miracle that they were brave enough to offer their head? Then YES

    The alleged miracle that their heads were chopped off and then reattached? Then NO!
     
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  19. Chaan Pardesi

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    Ambarsaria JI, Your you- tubes reminded me of another such bird, a parrot that is a pet in my nephews house on the island of Penang in Malaysia.This parrot is amazing.it is named Ash!

    Whenever we are on holidays there, the number of times, when we would pick up the phone..only to find it was the parrot that was simulating the ringing tone of their phone!Then on ocassions when the phone would really ring, it would simulate the voice of their maid a wonderful philipino lady, the parrot would shout out the name of one of my grand nephews ...Naveeeen or .. Depaaak ./..another brother of his!


    At other times, it would squawk as a horn- as if the car, and we would call out tothe maid that someone is at the gate, only to be told...Noo, sir, it is only assh making a nuisance of itself!!

    Along the line it has picked up a vocabulary of about 100 words; among which one is satnam waheguru!At times when it feels like it will chaant satnaam waheguru non stop for minutes...then call out "...what ?be quiet!!

    I have often wondered if I could teach it the panj paurian of jaap ji sahib; as it was rattling on one day, after me as I sat out early morning doing my paath in the verandah!


    Is that miracle or Gurbani?What do we define that as ?

    Gurcharan singh Kulim, Kamuning Hills,Kuala Lumpur.
     
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  20. spnadmin

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  21. Mai Harinder Kaur

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    I have a parrot named Thuki who is a sometimes talker. She says, "Come here!" when she's hungry. "Thuki pretty, pretty, PRETTY bird" means she wants attention. She also squawks out "It's twelve o'clock!" at odd times. (That involves a storm and a Hindu, but that's another story.) Her favourite word however is "Waheguru!" It's a miracle! A bird who japs naam! Call in all the Sikhs in the diaspora to hear my miracle bird! (Donations acccepted, please leave in the jar by the door.) Of course, she is a natural mimic and picked up "Waheguru" from me. I admit I love it. Sometimes it's comical, as when she orders around the Almighty: "Waheguru! Come here!" Sometimes, she merely informs: "Waheguru! It's twelve o'clock!" I enjoy it when she really gets going: "Waheguru! Waheguru! Waheguru! Waaaaaheguuuuruuuu!" Someday, no doubt she'll start jaikaraing. I look forward to that, too.

    This is all funny stuff, but there is a serious side. Do I believe in miracles? If a miracle is the suspension of Natural Law by some supernatural force, no, I do not believe in miracles. I have never believed the Akaal Purakh set up this universe in a particular way and then suspended the rules now and then for people that It has taken a special liking to. I do acknowledge that things happen that are inexplicable to us at our present level of knowledge. That only indicates that our knowledge of Natural Law is incomplete.

    I do believe that we receive strength, courage, sudden insight in ways that might be termed miraculous. Khandas appearing on cloth and my parrot parroting Gurmantar are not miracles and to take them as such IMO is at best wishful thinking and at worst superstition.

    Sheesh!
     

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