Are you?
Sorry, I must have missed it then. Would you be kind enough to give it another go?
Thanks.
Hard Talk Miracles, Dukh Bhanjani Sahib Paath And Sikhism
- Thread starter Seeker2013
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Are you?
Sorry, I must have missed it then. Would you be kind enough to give it another go?
Thanks.
ha...
you wrote
We are talking about Gurbani and I just want clarifications from Original ji that the verse he quoted twice to show it means Amritsar, the city, the tangible place.Is that so?
The verse is "ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਸਰੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਸਤਿਵਾਦੀ ਜਿਤੁ ਨਾਤੈ ਕਊਆ ਹੰਸੁ ਹੋਹੈ" [p492 SGGSJ on Page 493 btw.
if this 'amritsar' is not a tangible place as in the city...what, in your opinion, is Guru Ji referring to here?
Chaz Singh ji,
Guru Fateh.
Sorry again! Please explain what you mean in a lay man's terms.
Thanks
Guru Fateh.
Sorry again! Please explain what you mean in a lay man's terms.
Thanks
This Amritsar thingy...pool of nectar....that turn crows to swans...
What in your opinion do you think it is? what is it referring to...it's been given a name by Guruji...its been referenced to...
what in your opinion do you think Guru Ji is referring to here?
Please read post # 39 to get your answer. If you happen to disagree, then feel free to express your thoughts.
Thanks
you wrote:
The crow and swan are used as metaphors because black colour is racist and has been used in the Indian culture nonchalantly for millennia.. If that were the case in its true sense, then the question arises as all are Ik Ong Kaar's creation, why create a useless black bird then?!
why create the 'cold' if not to discern and recognise heat...to create an experience...to see the difference...
Why create darkness if not to make 'light' apparent, and prompt us to investigate it further.
you wrote: The crow and swan are used as metaphors because black colour is racist and has been used in the Indian culture nonchalantly for millennia
How does this explain in any way what Guru ji is trying to explain in his shabad...
please explain, to me what it is that Guru ji is trying to explain in this shabad...please...your post doesn't do that...not to me anyway..
Whats Guru ji's message? the pool of nectar will make you non-racists? i don;t get it
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I note some posts are descending once more to not using the quote system, please try and use it or things can get confusing
thanks
thanks
Good evening All,
First n foremost; Chaz Ji, good to hear you talk ! secondly, thank you and Swarn Ji for interpreting the shabad in its true literal meaning.
Admin Ji
Gracias !
Goodnight n Godbless
First n foremost; Chaz Ji, good to hear you talk ! secondly, thank you and Swarn Ji for interpreting the shabad in its true literal meaning.
Admin Ji
..I agree with you wholly solely; more so with it being a clear message from Guru Nanak to stay away from such practices of bathing n visiting, "allegedly" holy places. However, Harmandir Sahib [literally, the abode of God, which is also known by other names, e.g, Golden Temple, Amritsar, Darbar Sahib, Ramdas Sarovar] have a very special place in Sikh History. It's not your usual run of the mill name, it is central to Sikh Ideology [see below]. But first, please read "so dar" on page 8 of SGGSJ, with emphasis if you will, to what guru Nanak is saying. Once you've read So Dar, I'll reconstruct the past as it really was and tell you "why" Guru Amardas chose the particular spot where The Golden Temple stands today.
Gracias !
Greetings Sir !
...really ! you mean granth n panth consistent, wow, that's a miracle coming from you sir ! thank god I'm not the only one who can read and interpret gurbani truthfully !
..sir pls refer to #27 above for complete clarification and find there, all the T's crossed and the I's dotted - thank you !
..read the history of Amritsar or better still, let me give you an eye opener: originally, it was Guru Amardas who'd after considerable research and development foresight left specific instructions to build what is today, the Golden Temple. He pin-pointed the exact location where Harmandir Sahib stands today. The land then belonging to the villages of Tung [gumtala sultanvind], which later came to be known as "guru da chuk" was brought by the 4th Guru and there to the south of the "dukh bhanjani beri" guru ji built his own residential accommodations. Gradual development around the sarovar had started. Seeds of urbanization were sown. First settlers called it "santokhsar", then it was called "ramdaspur" and finally, when the 5th Guru started brick n mortar work he called it "Amritsar". Bang in the middle of the sarovar was to be built "harmandir sahib". History will tell you how the 5th Guru built the abode of god in the middle of "amrit-sarovar" [meaning, elixir of eternal life] and then in 1604 inaugurated the 1st parkash of SGGSJ. But like I said to Admin Ji, read So Dar to have an in-depth understanding to enable you to understand why this location is so fundamental to Sikh ideology.
...of course I do ! I'm a miracle -
..that's because I'm not no westernised Sikhi ! I'm the raw material from the land of the five-alive., hence the name "original". I don't write to spite or create to hate, I play to relay the word of my forefathers - Satnam Waheguru.
..you've probably read the translated version; try reading the original version and you'll see how guru ji's was relaxed, soaked in complete serenity, wholly n solely immersed in the choreography of nam, chanting "tera bhana meetha laga" and not as little as a sigh expelled or intimated from guru ji's lips whilst sitting on the hotplate with burning sand poured over his head. WOW acclaimed mogul scribes and emperors who fell to their knees for this was a "miracle".
..I must confess, from you I learn a lot about Hindutva. I didn't know anything of the term Hindutva let alone the philosophy until I came to SPN and I still don't I'm afraid. But look, all the same, I owe you gratitude and if someone wants to hear more I know where to send them.
Goodnight n Godbless
you wrote:
The crow and swan are used as metaphors because black colour is racist and has been used in the Indian culture nonchalantly for millennia.. If that were the case in its true sense, then the question arises as all are Ik Ong Kaar's creation, why create a useless black bird then?!
why create the 'cold' if not to discern and recognise heat...to create an experience...to see the difference...
Why create darkness if not to make 'light' apparent, and prompt us to investigate it further.
you wrote: The crow and swan are used as metaphors because black colour is racist and has been used in the Indian culture nonchalantly for millennia
How does this explain in any way what Guru ji is trying to explain in his shabad...
please explain, to me what it is that Guru ji is trying to explain in this shabad...please...your post doesn't do that...not to me anyway..
Whats Guru ji's message? the pool of nectar will make you non-racists? i don;t get it
Please read Swaran Bains ji's interpretation to understand the meaning. If you still need help, then let me know.
Original ji,
Guru Fateh.
"ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਸਰੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਸਤਿਵਾਦੀ ਜਿਤੁ ਨਾਤੈ ਕਊਆ ਹੰਸੁ ਹੋਹੈ"
Your above verse is what is also written on banners justifying 'the miracles'
It has nothing to do with the granth n panth but is incorrectly translated with Hindutva in mind to rake money from the innocent by misleading people like you who claim that Sikhi believes in miracles. You have the same Hindu belief of reincarnation which you have shared with us before. It is a shame indeed when some pretend to claim their Hindu beliefs as Sikhi ones.
The above verse has nothing to do with Amritsar, the city. But it has all to do with Guru Shabad which is Amrit Sar-ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਸਰੁ
What does the verse "ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਸਰੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਸਤਿਵਾਦੀ ਜਿਤੁ ਨਾਤੈ ਕਊਆ ਹੰਸੁ ਹੋਹੈ" [p492 SGGSJ on Page 493 btw.
I did. It has nothing to do with your concocted story. Gurbani stands on its own. It does not need any fairy tales to justify it.
As mentioned before, Gurbani needs no concocted stories. If you have any proofs of your claims above,please supply them for better understanding. It is also interesting to notice that when ever I ask you for proofs, you always shirk away from providing them. A Sikh never shirks away from these things.
You believe in miracles.
You are not a miracle. You are the result of chemistry and biology between semen and egg. It is quite elementary actually.
Sikhi does not believe in miracles unlike you do.
Sikhi is universal. Its message is for all humanity just in case your forefathers forgot to tell you that. Whatever you claim to be does not jive with Sikhi in many ways and I am sure you are aware of that.
If Sikhi believed in miracles, then the hot plate where Guru Arjan was forced to sit on, would never have gotten hot along with many other things considered as miracles.
Just in case you do not know about things, do not be afraid to ask from others about them. Sikhi makes us conversationalists.
What is a translated version what is the original version? Please post both here.
Please respond to this question.
Did the plate on with Guru Arjan was made to sit get hot or not with all the fire underneath?
The answer should not be difficult.
Thanks.
Guru Fateh.
"ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਸਰੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਸਤਿਵਾਦੀ ਜਿਤੁ ਨਾਤੈ ਕਊਆ ਹੰਸੁ ਹੋਹੈ"
Your above verse is what is also written on banners justifying 'the miracles'
It has nothing to do with the granth n panth but is incorrectly translated with Hindutva in mind to rake money from the innocent by misleading people like you who claim that Sikhi believes in miracles. You have the same Hindu belief of reincarnation which you have shared with us before. It is a shame indeed when some pretend to claim their Hindu beliefs as Sikhi ones.
The above verse has nothing to do with Amritsar, the city. But it has all to do with Guru Shabad which is Amrit Sar-ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਸਰੁ
What does the verse "ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਸਰੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਸਤਿਵਾਦੀ ਜਿਤੁ ਨਾਤੈ ਕਊਆ ਹੰਸੁ ਹੋਹੈ" [p492 SGGSJ on Page 493 btw.
I did. It has nothing to do with your concocted story. Gurbani stands on its own. It does not need any fairy tales to justify it.
As mentioned before, Gurbani needs no concocted stories. If you have any proofs of your claims above,please supply them for better understanding. It is also interesting to notice that when ever I ask you for proofs, you always shirk away from providing them. A Sikh never shirks away from these things.
You believe in miracles.
You are not a miracle. You are the result of chemistry and biology between semen and egg. It is quite elementary actually.
Sikhi does not believe in miracles unlike you do.
Sikhi is universal. Its message is for all humanity just in case your forefathers forgot to tell you that. Whatever you claim to be does not jive with Sikhi in many ways and I am sure you are aware of that.
If Sikhi believed in miracles, then the hot plate where Guru Arjan was forced to sit on, would never have gotten hot along with many other things considered as miracles.
Just in case you do not know about things, do not be afraid to ask from others about them. Sikhi makes us conversationalists.
What is a translated version what is the original version? Please post both here.
Please respond to this question.
Did the plate on with Guru Arjan was made to sit get hot or not with all the fire underneath?
The answer should not be difficult.
Thanks.
In my opinion...
Whilst our dyann is immersed in the 9 doors of the Body, focussed completely on the outer physical world...then the Shabad can well and truely mean the physical place...
Its amritsar/harmandir sahib is designed a certain way..Guru Sits within it...we study its architecture..the water that surrounds it, the water that is immersed almost 24/7 with the singing of Gurshabad...forget the word 'Miracle' ... the Miracle is...it can be transforming to many people...the people that want to shed their Ego....the people that want to truely make the step towards Guru Ji...
I know people that went there, came back transformed people, now the rest of their lives are based on continuing that journey ahead...or in reality...the journey within them...through the stargate into the Realm of the Guru within...This transformation is their destiny...no matter where that tranformation first initiated.
once we take the outer Guru Seriously when Guru Ji says "seek within"...then the Amritsar and Harimandir sahib can be found within...thats where the real bathing takes place..
but the outer still plays its part.
Just my opinion..
Whilst our dyann is immersed in the 9 doors of the Body, focussed completely on the outer physical world...then the Shabad can well and truely mean the physical place...
Its amritsar/harmandir sahib is designed a certain way..Guru Sits within it...we study its architecture..the water that surrounds it, the water that is immersed almost 24/7 with the singing of Gurshabad...forget the word 'Miracle' ... the Miracle is...it can be transforming to many people...the people that want to shed their Ego....the people that want to truely make the step towards Guru Ji...
I know people that went there, came back transformed people, now the rest of their lives are based on continuing that journey ahead...or in reality...the journey within them...through the stargate into the Realm of the Guru within...This transformation is their destiny...no matter where that tranformation first initiated.
once we take the outer Guru Seriously when Guru Ji says "seek within"...then the Amritsar and Harimandir sahib can be found within...thats where the real bathing takes place..
but the outer still plays its part.
Just my opinion..
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are you saying that god is more present at some places than he is at others? are that some locations have a higher level of spirituality?
That's not what i said...but that's quite some attempt at twisting some words
We are born looking 'outward' through the 9 doors...that is our existence...we live through those 9 doors...then there is a 10th...taking us deep within ourselves...
Whilst we are focused on the outer...outer Guru we bow to at the Gurdwara is saying...'look within if you want to know the full truth...not just what you experience through the 9 doors"...
So we can just ignore...or not even bother reading Guru Ji...or we can do just that...go within..
then maybe the total complete truth of exisence, of life, or Waheguru, of you will be known...
God is present everywhere...its just that if Me, you...or anyone wants True Deep feeling and actual experience of Waheguru...you must seek it within..
Just like Your Love for your parents (as we discussed in the other topic) can only be felt, by you, can only be known to be True by you...within your own being, by you
If your Love for your parents is TRUE...then it also exists on the outside through your actions...its everywhere....just like Waheguru...but your Love is felt and known and experienced and lived inside you.
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That's not what i said...but that's quite some attempt at twisting some words
But he sits everywhere does he not?
no, my love for my parents has nothing to do with the love of the supreme, in my humble confused opinion, I will have to open a thread to explain my thoughts, but then, as always, they are just my thoughts
Chaz - let the eggs hatch ! Allow Aman Singh to dig n dive for translation of "so dar" [p8 SGGSJ] and then perhaps, we can offer theoretical reasoning within which Harmandir Sahib stands, Amritsar Sarovar.
Your overview above is pretty neat and tidy, it is formal and elaborate within the meaning of religious belief. This is religious choreography, an outer behaviour exhibited in such ambience environment coordinating to an inner being to connect with and participate in the spiritual world. It is called belief, hence, Sikh ! But guess what, the rational mind [thinkers] is not comfortable with the notion of "belief" because it seems to demand unconditional acceptance without any reasonable basis. Cognitive science of religion deem it the "irrational nature" of humankind, any argument for conclusive results will ultimately fail.
You either believe [Gurmukh] or you don't [Manmukh], it's that simple !
Speak soon -
Your overview above is pretty neat and tidy, it is formal and elaborate within the meaning of religious belief. This is religious choreography, an outer behaviour exhibited in such ambience environment coordinating to an inner being to connect with and participate in the spiritual world. It is called belief, hence, Sikh ! But guess what, the rational mind [thinkers] is not comfortable with the notion of "belief" because it seems to demand unconditional acceptance without any reasonable basis. Cognitive science of religion deem it the "irrational nature" of humankind, any argument for conclusive results will ultimately fail.
You either believe [Gurmukh] or you don't [Manmukh], it's that simple !
Speak soon -
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All animals are equal,but some are more equal than others.
The Universe is occupied completely by God, but he is more present in some places more than others.
does questioning the latter statement make me a Manmukh?
The Universe is occupied completely by God, but he is more present in some places more than others.
does questioning the latter statement make me a Manmukh?
Harry ji,
Guru Fateh.
Many snake oil salesmen, some of which are also part of our SPN family, believe that if one parrots some particular paath/s several times a day, "the miracles" take place.
It is nothing but a fear factor concocted by the so called "Spiritual Alchemists". Little do they know that a Sikh is Ik Ong Kaar loving, not Ik Ong Kaar fearing. The latter is left to Hinduism and the Abrahamic religions.
Having said that, it is sad to notice that many Sikhs, even here at SPN, believe in these "miracles", thus embracing themselves with many meaningless mechanical rituals that Guru Nanak taught us not to. It seems that the words of Guru Nanak have fallen onto deaf ears.
One of the most blatant "pilgrimages", although Sikhi is against any kind of mechincal ritual to please some deity, is going to Hemkunt every summer. This ritual is based on Hindutva and sadly was encouraged by Bhai Sahib Bhai Veer Singh. He financed the whole shenanigan where thousands of obese people litter the pathway yearly and many hire people to take them to the mountaintop.
I would like to know Original ji's take on this because he has told us in one of his posts the reason of his log in name. He claims to be an Original Sikh.
In the Sikhi Spirit of full disclosure I would like to add that Bhai Veer Singh was a very close friend of my granddad-Pita ji, Dr. Balwant Singh Malik. Bhai Sahib, Pita ji and his cousin Prof. Puran Singh used to spend summer months in the cooler hill stations and interact on Sikhi among other things. The other gentleman who also used to be there with them was Sobha Singh, the famous Sikh painter who painted our Gurus' portraits through his vision. No one has any idea how our Gurus looked like because for our Gurus, it is all about The ONE which has nothing to don with Me-ism.
What a great lesson for us Sikhs to follow!
Tejwant Singh
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..pls explain - thank you !
..the concept God is that it is us who have our very being and existence in Him ! And, since God is infinite why confine Him to one universe; He is beyond as well !
..simply put, a manmukh is someone without a Guru !
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I did, the question is the presence of god greater in say Hemkunt, than say, my bedroom?
Well, I appreciate your statement, but if we could just focus on God's presence on planet earth for the moment, once we have established his level of presence on this tiny speck of creation, maybe then we can set our sights on arguments of the universe and beyond.
you will have to define Guru succinctly to get away with that one, define Guru.
..come on H, Hemkunt/ bedroom ? that's below the belt by any measure of the word "compare n contrast" ! you're entitled to an opinion, but not at the disparage of others. Religious sensitivity must always be borne in mind no matter how trivial the subject or the proposition might be.
Thank you
..to what end ?
..speaking literally would mean a "believer" in the existence of God !
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