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Hard Talk Miracles, Dukh Bhanjani Sahib Paath And Sikhism

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by Seeker2013, Jun 2, 2016.

  1. Seeker2013

    Seeker2013 India
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    Dukh Bhanjani sahib paath :

     
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  3. Aman Singh

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    What is Dukh Bhanjani Sahib paath?
     
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  4. Original

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    ...my dearest Admin G, glad you don't know because the tale is too good ! Read up on King Dhuni Chand [I think] and his daughter Rajni. Harminder Sahib came to be as a result of this fairy tale.
    Once you've read the tale I'll give you the historical perspective as to how Guru Amardas researched and found the "Amritsar" saroover. Then it was down to Guru Ramdas Ji to initiate construction work and finally completed by Guru Arjun Dev.

    Gdnite
     
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  5. Aman Singh

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    Actually, I meant Dukh Bhanjani Sahib paath...
     
  6. Original

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    ..literal meaning would be, "destroyer of suffering, ailments, pain, etc." Composed mainly by the 5th Nanak for restoration of good health, fortune, etc. It is dedicated to "dukh bhanjani beri", which till this stands as a testament to the fairy-tale of Rajkumari Rajni and her leper husband.
     
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  7. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    can good health and fortune be restored by this paath?
     
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  8. Inderjeet Kaur

    Inderjeet Kaur
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    I do not know. Mine has not been restored. Yet.
     
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  9. Original

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    Dearest H - a very good morning !


    ...of course, if you believe it could !

    Medicine deem certain psychological bemusements workable, such as "placebo" for example. Although, it's ineffectual as a drug, but has positive psychological connotations that are likely to produce desired results. Religion also, have "faith healing", which pretty much compliments placebo . So yeah, Gur Ghar is of the view [belief] that if one was to recite "dukh bhanjani sahib path" it could work to their advantage.

    This kind of infallibility is best demonstrated by surgeons dissecting human corpses to look for the soul. And in the absence thereof, continue to believe in its existence, regardless.

    Put it down to belief bro -
     
    #8 Original, Oct 26, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2016
  10. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    could I get the same effect by reciting the works of Enid Blyton if I really believed EB could cure me?
     
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  11. Original

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    No ! Her literature is fictional, operative organ responsible for manufacturing such information is the mind, whereas, the "bani" in question is spiritual, operative organ responsible for emanating information is the soul and, soul as you know is part of God.

    The type of belief you're referring to falls within the ambit of 'fact based reasoning', whereas, religious belief is considered a special category of belief. Take Jesus's resurrection from the dead ? You try telling the Christians it can't be - by Jove, they'll have you for dinner ! Similarly, if certain segment of society choses to recite dukh bhanjani path for whatever reason, they should be afforded the liberty to do so. Reasoning and unreasoning doesn't come into it.

    Remember H, the "concept" religious belief is beyond the apprehension of the mind. In other words, beyond time n space.
     
  12. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    I have a complete respect for any way of life, and the right to carry such out, my only problem is definitive universal statements that intimate absolute truth.
     
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  13. Original

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    ..absolute truth as you know is God; can the existence or non existence thereof be concluded ? No, full stop. You looking to cement universal statements within religious education is like roping Pegasus in mid-air.
     
  14. Harry Haller

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    actually your argument works equally well against you :), its the best answer I could have given, I feel quite redundant, I wish I had thought of that one.
     
  15. Original

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    ..you're the best ! But guess what, so are pathfinder and RD1 in your neck of the woods as writers of English. Thus, Poets' Corner I've labelled thee all. Pleasure to read -
     
  16. Aman Singh

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    Is there any baani with such a name in SGGS?
    --- Double Post Merged, Oct 26, 2016, Original Post Date: Oct 26, 2016 ---
    Are there any direct references to your assertions in SGGS?
    --- Double Post Merged, Oct 26, 2016 ---
    Care to explain!
     
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    #15 Aman Singh, Oct 26, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2016
  17. Original

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    Good morning Admin Ji
    .. no ! this'd be the work of the Sikh Institute to have extracted relevant literature and compiled under the heading "dukh bhanjani sahib".

    ...assertions ? you mean information ! story telling is common to every culture, Indian society was no exception and this here is truth [nam] clothed in the mantle of a story. This is evidenced in the opening verse, ਦੁਖ ਭੰਜਨੁ ਤੇਰਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਜੀ ਦੁਖ ਭੰਜਨੁ ਤੇਰਾ ਨਾਮੁ [p218 SGGSJ - transliteration: dukh bhanjan tera nam ji, meaning, thy name breaker of pain]. Moreover, dukh bhanjani beri [tree] is still standing within the compound Sri Harminder Sahib.
    ...I'd love to, maybe another time, but for now try your parents or other senior citizens. The story of Rajni and her leper hubby prompted Guru Amardas to research for the holy nectar [amrit]. And, it was this location now known as Amritsar [saroovar] where after falling accidently into the holy waters, the leper was cured of his leprosy.
     
  18. Aman Singh

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    So, what happened before and after this one instance? There are still around quarter a million lepers around the world... mostly in India... why they never got cured? Sure they would have tried their luck at the sarovar after knowing of this fairy tale from the word of mouth! (We, the gullible Sikhs, as usual, make a paradigm shift and call it a saakhi, an eyewitness account).

    Care to explain at your leisure time!

    Thank you
    --- Double Post Merged, Oct 27, 2016, Original Post Date: Oct 27, 2016 ---
    @Original ji,

    Where in this shabd, Guru refers to Dukh Bhanjani /or Beri? The fifth Nanak compiled the Aad Guru Granth Sahib, He never extracted relevant Gurbani to form a compilation called Dukh Bhanjani Sahib. He certainly could have done it if He ever intended to...

    So which so-called "Sikh Institute?" has had the authority to do it and by whose prerogative?

     
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  19. swarn bains

    swarn bains United States
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    I have been reading SGGS regularly for the last 40 years. I have completed full SGGS path hundreds of time. From my understanding it does not deal with physical ailments. it only deals with mind and mental ailments. It appears to me that reciting his name through guru's blessings eradicates the mental blockade of ill feelings and changes the thinking. That in turn gives peace of mind. Without guru's teaching reciting God's name has very little effect. Sorry if i said something illogical.
     
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  20. Original

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    ..over a 100,000 footfall a day is recorded at the holy shrine of Amritsar; ask yourself why ?
    Check out page 492 SGGSJ for therein lies your answer, in bold, thus:

    ਗੂਜਰੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੪ ॥ ਗੋਵਿੰਦੁ ਗੋਵਿੰਦੁ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਮੁ ਮਨਿ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਮੁ ਮਿਲਿ ਸਤਸੰਗਤਿ ਸਬਦਿ ਮਨੁ ਮੋਹੈ ॥ ਜਪਿ ਗੋਵਿੰਦੁ ਗੋਵਿੰਦੁ ਧਿਆਈਐ ਸਭ ਕਉ ਦਾਨੁ ਦੇਇ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਓਹੈ ॥੧॥ ਮੇਰੇ ਭਾਈ ਜਨਾ ਮੋ ਕਉ ਗੋਵਿੰਦੁ ਗੋਵਿੰਦੁ ਗੋਵਿੰਦੁ ਮਨੁ ਮੋਹੈ ॥ ਗੋਵਿੰਦ ਗੋਵਿੰਦ ਗੋਵਿੰਦ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਵਾ ਮਿਲਿ ਗੁਰ ਸਾਧਸੰਗਤਿ ਜਨੁ ਸੋਹੈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ ਸੁਖ ਸਾਗਰ ਹਰਿ ਭਗਤਿ ਹੈ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਕਉਲਾ ਰਿਧਿ ਸਿਧਿ ਲਾਗੈ ਪਗਿ ਓਹੈ ॥ ਜਨ ਕਉ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮੁ ਆਧਾਰਾ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਤ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੇ ਸੋਹੈ ॥੨॥ ਦੁਰਮਤਿ ਭਾਗਹੀਨ ਮਤਿ ਫੀਕੇ ਨਾਮੁ ਸੁਨਤ ਆਵੈ ਮਨਿ ਰੋਹੈ ॥ ਕਊਆ ਕਾਗ ਕਉ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਰਸੁ ਪਾਈਐ ਤ੍ਰਿਪਤੈ ਵਿਸਟਾ ਖਾਇ ਮੁਖਿ ਗੋਹੈ ॥੩॥ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਸਰੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਸਤਿਵਾਦੀ ਜਿਤੁ ਨਾਤੈ ਕਊਆ ਹੰਸੁ ਹੋਹੈ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਧਨੁ ਧੰਨੁ ਵਡੇ ਵਡਭਾਗੀ ਜਿਨ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਰਿਦੈ ਮਲੁ ਧੋਹੈ ॥੪॥੨॥ {ਪੰਨਾ 492-493}
    ..non believers I guess ! for look at those who believe the earth to be flat, an excellent approximation when mapping out their garden. The operative word is "belief". Sikhism is "belief", you can't reason nor can you experiment for objectivity, all you can do is believe. "Faith is to believe what you do not see; the reward of this faith is to see what you believe" Thomas Aquinas.
    ..you mean, we the "beautiful" Sikhs. Sikhism is a science; where other species are shaped by evolution, we've taken control of our own destiny, hence the 3 pillars: kk,vs and nam jap. The word of God, meaning, shabad was passed on through storytelling before the art of writing was developed. The Saakhi's, albeit secondary a source from a historical standpoint, are an integral part of Sikhism without which, reconstruction of what it was really like back in the days of Sikh Gurus would be lost. Both the historian and the sociologists would consider the saakhi's important literature for reconstruction of the human past. Remember, the "shabad guru" is not ink and paper, but a word that is spoken; how then do you think it could've survived when homo sapiens were still in their infancy and writing was a far gone conclusion?

    Storytelling is the shortest distance to "truth", meaning satnam. Every culture has it. Try sitting with your mum n dad, grandma and granddad - SGGSJ is the story of "nam" and nam is God. Once upon a time it was never written.
    ..you hav'n a laugh aren't ya ? forgive me, but do you not read Gurmukhi ? The actual shabad is "dukh bhanjan", literal meaning, breaker or destroyer of pain, suffering, etc. Where bhanjan [masculine] means to break, bhanjani [feminine] is depictive of the beri that stands testament to the tale of the leper who was cured.
    ..yeah, so did Shakespeare who never envisaged that much of his writing would be "anthologised".
    What is the function of an institution if it weren't to preserve, proliferate and exponentials of the subject matter with which it is charged ?
    ...so whose done it now then, jo blogs from planet cuckoo land ? wake up son and smell the coffee ! The guru lives in His sangat, meaning institution, meaning SPN, meaning everywhere, lives in you too. Reach him with heart and not head - the penny'll drop !
    ..the same institution that has given millions n millions of Sikhs around the world "gutkas'", inclusive of Guru Gobind Singh's Bani, called the "Sikh Panth". And, since the 10th master had conferred both substantive and procedural autonomy upon the 5 pyara to act in accordance with the Will of Akal Purakh, prerogative is inapplicable.


    Much obliged -
     
    #19 Original, Oct 30, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2016
  21. Seeker2013

    Seeker2013 India
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    Hello Admin ji ,

    Why create a fuss over it ? Dukh Bhanjani sahib is just a collection of baanis from SGGS , various shabads relating to mercy of god in curing our ailments, physical , mental and spiritual .

    Its just baani . Lets not forget that it is human tendency we only go to guru most of the times when we're sad or in pain "dukh" .
    So , sometimes people start doing paath of baani to gain confidence and hope in god .

    Dukh Bhanjani sahib unlike other baanis (anand, sukhmani , etc) is not named so in SGGS. but if u take a dukh bhanjani sahib pothi , you will see theme of all shabads is same : mercy of god , power of prayer, and relief ! .

    The pothi I have , on its preface as a request , the publisher has written :

    "Whosoever afflicted with a disease , either a gursikh or any believer in Guru Nanak , should wake up at amritvela and after nitnem do this paath for 40 days . If not possible to do paath, he should get it listened to. Having faith in Guru Nanak , I guarantee it will help you"

    A big assertion I must say of the publisher , but he just shows his faith in god .

    Anyways, on a related note, there's the old desi habit of vowing of 40 days paath.
    Some people call it karm -kaand , I say it takes 40 days to built a habit .

    Lol , ask someone who wakes up at 8 in the morning to wake up at 4 am for 40 continuous days for sukhmani sahib. Easier said than done !
    --- Double Post Merged, Oct 30, 2016, Original Post Date: Oct 30, 2016 ---
    The saakhi is of Bibi Rajni , a pious and believing woman who was married off to a leper by her angry father , because he thought she was an ungrateful wretch .
    She accepted her fate .

    Long story cut short , her crippled leper husband saw a black crow take a dip in amrit sarovar (harmandir sahib was not present back then) and come out as white. He took a dip and got cured . It was a beautiful small lake surrounded by beautiful forest .

    The story is attributed to time when Guru Ramdas had just become the guru .
    Its said she had 7 sons , and eldest one was named "Gurmukh" by Guru Ram das ji .

    Bibi Rajni - SikhiWiki, free Sikh encyclopedia.

    PS : I used to doubt miracles until one happened to myself a little more than a year back :p
     
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