Is Bhatt Bani Not Guru?

[Harjas Kaur Khalsa]

Purpose is to make people aware of the practice of the manipulated Presentation of the Truth.

The entire issue of challenging bani has to do with this manipulation of Truth. It is one thing to question, seeking deeper understanding. But to undermine, refute and challenge basic Sikh teaching isn't questioning at all...it is like the termite seeking to destroy foundation.

All these fine hair-splitting positions are designed to erode the authenticity and authority of Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji, Rehat Maryada, vaaran of Bhai Gurdas Ji and vaaran of Bhai Nand Lal Ji, and various historical commentaries which all the Takhts analyze, weigh and consider. These arguments are cleverly constructed to raise doubt in the mind of Guru's Sikhs about institutions of Gursikhi such as Kande-ki Pohul, daily recitation of nitenam, panj kakkars, and the underpinnings of Rehat Maryada and the very existence of the Khalsa. In short, they invent a new kind of Sikhi which please the secular person who doesn't want commitment to a Guru.

If one listens to the actual words of people like Kala Afghana, he goes so far as to challenge there is no atma...there is no karam...there is no paap...there is no Vaheguru. The man is an atheist acting as a missionary to preach the eroding disbeliefs and instill doubt in Sikhism. His supporters are more clever than he...they quote sweet Gurbani, and then challenge only certain things to erode confidence, like taking only a small step in an atheistic, anti-Gurmat direction.

To have discussions is fine. Even to have sincere questions is fine. But to impose atheistic secular philosophy into Gurmat Sikh teaching creates an uproar. And why not? It isn't clever talk anymore. Its a direct challenge to the legitimacy of Sikhism, history of Sikhism, culture of Sikhism and essential Sikh belief and institutions. It becomes anti-Gurmat missionary propaganda against the explicit directives of Akal Takht.

Go and debate whatever you want. Accept this but don't accept that. Take this part but tear apart the legitimacy of that part.... Once someone becomes a PREACHER of something against Sikh teaching on a public forum, and challenges the authority of Akal Takht on these matters...HE ENDS THE DISCUSSION for Sikhs.

When someone starts misleading people it is in fact a serious cause for worry.

And thats what these challenges and underminings are about. To lead people AWAY from Gurmat Gursikhi. This is how insidious this is...if we were having a discussion with atheists, secularists, Muslims, Christians, etc. We could present a Sikh position while respecting their right of difference. But this is a Sikh forum. And these debates are happening between Sikh people eroding the validity of Gursikh teaching. To what purpose? To justify lifestyle in contradiction to Gurmat while having the name Gurmat? It is a lie, a fraud, an audacity, and a challenge.

These are the same people who tell you it's okay for a Sikh to cut hair. To cut a child's hair until he is of age to decide for himself. They say a Sikh doesn't need amrit, and say there is no need for amrit at all because it is just self-righteous hypocrisy. These people take and pick what they choose from Gurbani, and go so far as to deny that some bani is even bani. They say don't believe the vaaran of Bhai Gurdas Ji, or vaaran of Bhai Nand Lal Ji or supporting vaaran of the Rehat Mayada, or even rehitnamay...they say it is only opinion...and they have a better, more informed, modern opinion! In short, they make an atheism out of a religion! They make an individual patchwork out of what should be surrendered submission to a SatGuru! They are making THEMSELVES equal to Guru! Because they interpret for themselves only what they want.

But that is not the case in Gurmat Gursikhi. Every bania, and every vaaran which have been accepted by the Takhts since the foundation of Sikhi all agree and cross-confirm. There is no contradiction at all.

they just select a few Guru waak or some Bhatt bani to prove their case that guru is God.”

Well, all opinions and debates are fruitless unless they are Guru-oriented. So the simplest answer is...what does Gurbani say? And here is the answer.

ਕਲਿ ਮਾਹਿ ਰੂਪੁ ਕਰਤਾ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਸੋ ਜਾਣੈ ਜਿਨਿ ਕਿਛੁ ਕੀਅਉ ॥
kal maahi roop karathaa purakh so jaanai jin kishh keeao ||
In this Dark Age of Kali Yuga, the Guru is the Form of the Creator, the Primal Lord God; he alone knows, who has tried it.
17 Sava-yay (praise of Guru Amar DasBhikha

-SGGS Ji p. 1395

And for those who are searching for the real knowledge can read the shabads posted below. Because only HE who has penetrated the insights of both the nirgun and sargun aspects of Vaheguru is merged with Vaheguru. No human being can possibly do this. The human brain is finite. Only a much greater being is even capable of knowing what no human being can know.

ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਸਿਫਤੀ ਕਹਣਿ ਨ ਅੰਤੁ ॥
anth n sifathee kehan n anth ||
Endless are His Praises, endless are those who speak them.
6 JapGuru Nanak Dev

ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਕਰਣੈ ਦੇਣਿ ਨ ਅੰਤੁ ॥
anth n karanai dhaen n anth ||
Endless are His Actions, endless are His Gifts.
7 JapGuru Nanak Dev

ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਵੇਖਣਿ ਸੁਣਣਿ ਨ ਅੰਤੁ ॥
anth n vaekhan sunan n anth ||
Endless is His Vision, endless is His Hearing.
7 JapGuru Nanak Dev

ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਜਾਪੈ ਕਿਆ ਮਨਿ ਮੰਤੁ ॥
anth n jaapai kiaa man manth ||
His limits cannot be perceived. What is the Mystery of His Mind?
7 JapGuru Nanak Dev

ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਜਾਪੈ ਕੀਤਾ ਆਕਾਰੁ ॥
anth n jaapai keethaa aakaar ||
The limits of the created universe cannot be perceived.
8 JapGuru Nanak Dev

ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਜਾਪੈ ਪਾਰਾਵਾਰੁ ॥
anth n jaapai paaraavaar ||
Its limits here and beyond cannot be perceived.
8 JapGuru Nanak Dev

ਅੰਤ ਕਾਰਣਿ ਕੇਤੇ ਬਿਲਲਾਹਿ ॥
anth kaaran kaethae bilalaahi ||
Many struggle to know His limits,
8 JapGuru Nanak Dev

ਤਾ ਕੇ ਅੰਤ ਨ ਪਾਏ ਜਾਹਿ ॥
thaa kae anth n paaeae jaahi ||
but His limits cannot be found.
9 JapGuru Nanak Dev

ਏਹੁ ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਜਾਣੈ ਕੋਇ ॥
eaehu anth n jaanai koe ||
No one can know these limits.
9 JapGuru Nanak Dev

ਬਹੁਤਾ ਕਹੀਐ ਬਹੁਤਾ ਹੋਇ ॥
bahuthaa keheeai bahuthaa hoe ||
The more you say about them, the more there still remains to be said.
9 JapGuru Nanak Dev

ਵਡਾ ਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਊਚਾ ਥਾਉ ॥
vaddaa saahib oochaa thhaao ||
Great is the Master, High is His Heavenly Home.
9 JapGuru Nanak Dev

ਊਚੇ ਉਪਰਿ ਊਚਾ ਨਾਉ ॥
oochae oupar oochaa naao ||
Highest of the High, above all is His Name.
10 JapGuru Nanak Dev

ਏਵਡੁ ਊਚਾ ਹੋਵੈ ਕੋਇ ॥
eaevadd oochaa hovai koe ||
Only one as Great and as High as God
10 JapGuru Nanak Dev

ਤਿਸੁ ਊਚੇ ਕਉ ਜਾਣੈ ਸੋਇ ॥
this oochae ko jaanai soe ||
can know His Lofty and Exalted State.
10 JapGuru Nanak Dev

ਜੇਵਡੁ ਆਪਿ ਜਾਣੈ ਆਪਿ ਆਪਿ ॥
jaevadd aap jaanai aap aap ||
Only He Himself is that Great. He Himself knows Himself.
10 JapGuru Nanak Dev

-SGGS Ji p. 5

And for those who are searching can read the entire shabad leading to this statement.

ਇਕੁ ਬਿੰਨਿ ਦੁਗਣ ਜੁ ਤਉ ਰਹੈ ਜਾ ਸੁਮੰਤ੍ਰਿ ਮਾਨਵਹਿ ਲਹਿ ॥
eik binn dhugan j tho rehai jaa sumanthr maanavehi lehi ||
Realizing the One Lord, love of duality ceases, and one comes to accept the Sublime Mantra of the Guru.
1 Sava-yay (praise of Guru Amar Das Jal-Jalap

ਜਾਲਪਾ ਪਦਾਰਥ ਇਤੜੇ ਗੁਰ ਅਮਰਦਾਸਿ ਡਿਠੈ ਮਿਲਹਿ ॥੫॥੧੪॥
jaalapaa padhaarathh eitharrae gur amaradhaas ddithai milehi ||5||14||
So speaks Jaalap: countless treasures are obtained, by the sight of Guru Amar Daas. ||5||14||
2 Sava-yay (praise of Guru Amar Das Jal-Jalap

ਸਚੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਕਰਤਾਰੁ ਸੁ ਦ੍ਰਿੜੁ ਨਾਨਕਿ ਸੰਗ੍ਰਹਿਅਉ ॥
sach naam karathaar s dhrirr naanak sangrehiao ||
Guru Nanak gathered up the True Name of the Creator Lord, and implanted it within.
2 Sava-yay (praise of Guru Amar Das Kirat

ਤਾ ਤੇ ਅੰਗਦੁ ਲਹਣਾ ਪ੍ਰਗਟਿ ਤਾਸੁ ਚਰਣਹ ਲਿਵ ਰਹਿਅਉ ॥
thaa thae angadh lehanaa pragatt thaas charaneh liv rehiao ||
Through Him, Lehnaa became manifest in the form of Guru Angad, who remained lovingly attuned to His Feet.
3 Sava-yay (praise of Guru Amar Das Kirat

ਤਿਤੁ ਕੁਲਿ ਗੁਰ ਅਮਰਦਾਸੁ ਆਸਾ ਨਿਵਾਸੁ ਤਾਸੁ ਗੁਣ ਕਵਣ ਵਖਾਣਉ ॥
thith kul gur amaradhaas aasaa nivaas thaas gun kavan vakhaano ||
Guru Amar Daas of that dynasty is the home of hope. How can I express His Glorious Virtues?
3 Sava-yay (praise of Guru Amar Das Kirat

ਜੋ ਗੁਣ ਅਲਖ ਅਗੰਮ ਤਿਨਹ ਗੁਣ ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਜਾਣਉ ॥
jo gun alakh aganm thineh gun anth n jaano ||
His Virtues are unknowable and unfathomable. I do not know the limits of His Virtues.
4 Sava-yay (praise of Guru Amar Das Kirat

ਬੋਹਿਥਉ ਬਿਧਾਤੈ ਨਿਰਮਯੌ ਸਭ ਸੰਗਤਿ ਕੁਲ ਉਧਰਣ ॥
bohithho bidhhaathai niramaya sabh sangath kul oudhharan ||
The Creator, the Architect of Destiny, has made Him a boat to carry all His generations across, along with the Sangat, the Holy Congregation.
5 Sava-yay (praise of Guru Amar Das Kirat

ਗੁਰ ਅਮਰਦਾਸ ਕੀਰਤੁ ਕਹੈ ਤ੍ਰਾਹਿ ਤ੍ਰਾਹਿ ਤੁਅ ਪਾ ਸਰਣ ॥੧॥੧੫॥
gur amaradhaas keerath kehai thraahi thraahi thua paa saran ||1||15||
So speaks Keerat: O Guru Amar Daas, please protect me and save me; I seek the Sanctuary of Your Feet. ||1||15||
5 Sava-yay (praise of Guru Amar Das Kirat

ਆਪਿ ਨਰਾਇਣੁ ਕਲਾ ਧਾਰਿ ਜਗ ਮਹਿ ਪਰਵਰਿਯਉ ॥
aap naraaein kalaa dhhaar jag mehi paravariyo ||
The Lord Himself wielded His Power and entered the world.
6 Sava-yay (praise of Guru Amar Das Kirat

ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰਿ ਆਕਾਰੁ ਜੋਤਿ ਜਗ ਮੰਡਲਿ ਕਰਿਯਉ ॥
nirankaar aakaar joth jag manddal kariyo ||
The Formless Lord took form, and with His Light He illuminated the realms of the world.
6 Sava-yay (praise of Guru Amar Das Kirat

ਜਹ ਕਹ ਤਹ ਭਰਪੂਰੁ ਸਬਦੁ ਦੀਪਕਿ ਦੀਪਾਯਉ ॥
jeh keh theh bharapoor sabadh dheepak dheepaayo ||
He is All-pervading everywhere; the Lamp of the Shabad, the Word, has been lit.
7 Sava-yay (praise of Guru Amar Das Kirat

ਜਿਹ ਸਿਖਹ ਸੰਗ੍ਰਹਿਓ ਤਤੁ ਹਰਿ ਚਰਣ ਮਿਲਾਯਉ ॥
jih sikheh sangrehiou thath har charan milaayo ||
Whoever gathers in the essence of the teachings shall be absorbed in the Feet of the Lord.
7 Sava-yay (praise of Guru Amar Das Kirat

ਨਾਨਕ ਕੁਲਿ ਨਿੰਮਲੁ ਅਵਤਰਿ੍ਯ੍ਯਉ ਅੰਗਦ ਲਹਣੇ ਸੰਗਿ ਹੁਅ ॥
naanak kul ninmal avathariyo angadh lehanae sang hua ||
Lehnaa, who became Guru Angad, and Guru Amar Daas, have been reincarnated into the pure house of Guru Nanak.
8 Sava-yay (praise of Guru Amar Das Kirat

ਗੁਰ ਅਮਰਦਾਸ ਤਾਰਣ ਤਰਣ ਜਨਮ ਜਨਮ ਪਾ ਸਰਣਿ ਤੁਅ ॥੨॥੧੬॥
gur amaradhaas thaaran tharan janam janam paa saran thua ||2||16||
Guru Amar Daas is our Saving Grace, who carries us across; in lifetime after lifetime, I seek the Sanctuary of Your Feet. ||2||16||
8 Sava-yay (praise of Guru Amar Das Kirat

ਜਪੁ ਤਪੁ ਸਤੁ ਸੰਤੋਖੁ ਪਿਖਿ ਦਰਸਨੁ ਗੁਰ ਸਿਖਹ ॥
jap thap sath santhokh pikh dharasan gur sikheh ||
Gazing upon the Blessed Vision of His Darshan, the Gursikh is blessed with chanting and deep meditation, truth and contentment.
9 Sava-yay (praise of Guru Amar Das Kirat

ਸਰਣਿ ਪਰਹਿ ਤੇ ਉਬਰਹਿ ਛੋਡਿ ਜਮ ਪੁਰ ਕੀ ਲਿਖਹ ॥
saran parehi thae oubarehi shhodd jam pur kee likheh ||
Whoever seeks His Sanctuary is saved; his account is cleared in the City of Death.
9 Sava-yay (praise of Guru Amar Das Kirat

ਭਗਤਿ ਭਾਇ ਭਰਪੂਰੁ ਰਿਦੈ ਉਚਰੈ ਕਰਤਾਰੈ ॥
bhagath bhaae bharapoor ridhai oucharai karathaarai ||
His heart is totally filled with loving devotion; he chants to the Creator Lord.
10 Sava-yay (praise of Guru Amar Das Kirat

ਗੁਰੁ ਗਉਹਰੁ ਦਰੀਆਉ ਪਲਕ ਡੁਬੰਤ੍ਯ੍ਯਹ ਤਾਰੈ ॥
gur gouhar dhareeaao palak ddubanthyeh thaarai ||
The Guru is the river of pearls; in an instant, he carries the drowning ones across.
10 Sava-yay (praise of Guru Amar Das Kirat

ਨਾਨਕ ਕੁਲਿ ਨਿੰਮਲੁ ਅਵਤਰਿ੍ਯ੍ਯਉ ਗੁਣ ਕਰਤਾਰੈ ਉਚਰੈ ॥
naanak kul ninmal avathariyo gun karathaarai oucharai ||
He was reincarnated into the House of Guru Nanak; He chants the Glorious Praises of the Creator Lord.
11 Sava-yay (praise of Guru Amar Das Kirat

ਗੁਰੁ ਅਮਰਦਾਸੁ ਜਿਨ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਸੇਵਿਅਉ ਤਿਨ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਦੁਖੁ ਦਰਿਦ੍ਰੁ ਪਰਹਰਿ ਪਰੈ ॥੩॥੧੭॥
gur amaradhaas jinh saeviao thinh dhukh dharidhra parehar parai ||3||17||
Those who serve Guru Amar Daas - their pains and poverty are taken away, far away. ||3||17||
11 Sava-yay (praise of Guru Amar Das Kirat

ਚਿਤਿ ਚਿਤਵਉ ਅਰਦਾਸਿ ਕਹਉ ਪਰੁ ਕਹਿ ਭਿ ਨ ਸਕਉ ॥
chith chithavo aradhaas keho par kehi bh n sako ||
I consciously pray within my consciousness, but I cannot express it in words.
12 Sava-yay (praise of Guru Amar Das Kirat

ਸਰਬ ਚਿੰਤ ਤੁਝੁ ਪਾਸਿ ਸਾਧਸੰਗਤਿ ਹਉ ਤਕਉ ॥
sarab chinth thujh paas saadhhasangath ho thako ||
I place all my worries and anxieties before You; I look to the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, for help.
13 Sava-yay (praise of Guru Amar Das Kirat

ਤੇਰੈ ਹੁਕਮਿ ਪਵੈ ਨੀਸਾਣੁ ਤਉ ਕਰਉ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਕੀ ਸੇਵਾ ॥
thaerai hukam pavai neesaan tho karo saahib kee saevaa ||
By the Hukam of Your Command, I am blessed with Your Insignia; I serve my Lord and Master.
13 Sava-yay (praise of Guru Amar Das Kirat

ਜਬ ਗੁਰੁ ਦੇਖੈ ਸੁਭ ਦਿਸਟਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਕਰਤਾ ਮੁਖਿ ਮੇਵਾ ॥
jab gur dhaekhai subh dhisatt naam karathaa mukh maevaa ||
When You, O Guru, gaze at me with Your Glance of Grace, the fruit of the Naam, the Name of the Creator, is placed within my mouth.
14 Sava-yay (praise of Guru Amar Das Kirat

ਅਗਮ ਅਲਖ ਕਾਰਣ ਪੁਰਖ ਜੋ ਫੁਰਮਾਵਹਿ ਸੋ ਕਹਉ ॥
agam alakh kaaran purakh jo furamaavehi so keho ||
The Unfathomable and Unseen Primal Lord God, the Cause of causes - as He orders, so do I speak.
14 Sava-yay (praise of Guru Amar Das Kirat

ਗੁਰ ਅਮਰਦਾਸ ਕਾਰਣ ਕਰਣ ਜਿਵ ਤੂ ਰਖਹਿ ਤਿਵ ਰਹਉ ॥੪॥੧੮॥
gur amaradhaas kaaran karan jiv thoo rakhehi thiv reho ||4||18||
O Guru Amar Daas, Doer of deeds, Cause of causes, as You keep me, I remain; as You protect me, I survive. ||4||18||
15 Sava-yay (praise of Guru Amar Das Kirat

ਭਿਖੇ ਕੇ ॥
bhikhae kae ||
Of Bhikhaa:
15

ਗੁਰੁ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਅਰੁ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਤਤ ਸਿਉ ਤਤੁ ਮਿਲਾਵੈ ॥
gur giaan ar dhhiaan thath sio thath milaavai ||
In deep meditation, and the spiritual wisdom of the Guru, one's essence merges with the essence of reality.
15 Sava-yay (praise of Guru Amar Das Bhikha

ਸਚਿ ਸਚੁ ਜਾਣੀਐ ਇਕ ਚਿਤਹਿ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਵੈ ॥
sach sach jaaneeai eik chithehi liv laavai ||
In truth, the True Lord is recognized and realized, when one is lovingly attuned to Him, with one-pointed consciousness.
16 Sava-yay (praise of Guru Amar Das Bhikha

ਕਾਮ ਕ੍ਰੋਧ ਵਸਿ ਕਰੈ ਪਵਣੁ ਉਡੰਤ ਨ ਧਾਵੈ ॥
kaam krodhh vas karai pavan ouddanth n dhhaavai ||
Lust and anger are brought under control, when the breath does not fly around, wandering restlessly.
16 Sava-yay (praise of Guru Amar Das Bhikha

ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ ਕੈ ਵਸੈ ਦੇਸਿ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਬੁਝਿ ਬੀਚਾਰੁ ਪਾਵੈ ॥
nirankaar kai vasai dhaes hukam bujh beechaar paavai ||
Dwelling in the land of the Formless Lord, realizing the Hukam of His Command, His contemplative wisdom is attained.
17 Sava-yay (praise of Guru Amar Das Bhikha

ਕਲਿ ਮਾਹਿ ਰੂਪੁ ਕਰਤਾ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਸੋ ਜਾਣੈ ਜਿਨਿ ਕਿਛੁ ਕੀਅਉ ॥
kal maahi roop karathaa purakh so jaanai jin kishh keeao ||
In this Dark Age of Kali Yuga, the Guru is the Form of the Creator, the Primal Lord God; he alone knows, who has tried it.
17 Sava-yay (praise of Guru Amar Das Bhikha

ਗੁਰੁ ਮਿਲ੍ਯ੍ਯਿਉ ਸੋਇ ਭਿਖਾ ਕਹੈ ਸਹਜ ਰੰਗਿ ਦਰਸਨੁ ਦੀਅਉ ॥੧॥੧੯॥
gur miliyo soe bhikhaa kehai sehaj rang dharasan dheeao ||1||19||
So speaks Bhikhaa: I have met the Guru. With love and intuitive affection, He has bestowed the Blessed Vision of His Darshan. ||1||19||
18 Sava-yay (praise of Guru Amar Das Bhikha

ਰਹਿਓ ਸੰਤ ਹਉ ਟੋਲਿ ਸਾਧ ਬਹੁਤੇਰੇ ਡਿਠੇ ॥
rehiou santh ho ttol saadhh bahuthaerae ddithae ||
I have been searching for the Saints; I have seen so many Holy and spiritual people.
19 Sava-yay (praise of Guru Amar Das Bhikha

ਸੰਨਿਆਸੀ ਤਪਸੀਅਹ ਮੁਖਹੁ ਏ ਪੰਡਿਤ ਮਿਠੇ ॥
sanniaasee thapaseeah mukhahu eae panddith mithae ||
The hermits, Sannyaasees, ascetics, penitents, fanatics and Pandits all speak sweetly.
19 Sava-yay (praise of Guru Amar Das Bhikha

ਬਰਸੁ ਏਕੁ ਹਉ ਫਿਰਿਓ ਕਿਨੈ ਨਹੁ ਪਰਚਉ ਲਾਯਉ ॥
baras eaek ho firiou kinai nahu paracho laayo ||
I wandered around lost for a year, but no one touched my soul.
19 Sava-yay (praise of Guru Amar Das Bhikha

-SGGS Ji p. 1395

 

[Astroboy]

Harjas Kaur Khalsa Ji,

For the Gurbani you quoted,

 

[spnadmin]

Harjas ji

In your recent comments you have referred to other members as termites, atheists, followers of an aetheist, doubt-raisers, anti-Gurmat, under-miners of Sikhism, liars, and more. No one individual has been singled out, however you seem to have taken aim at the entire discussion. No matter how wrong or how deluded some may be in your eyes, please debate the issues, not personalities.

 

[Astroboy]

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Why I sympathize with you Pyramid Ji,[/FONT]

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]One day, a Sikh was reciting the a holy composition from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. He read the line, "Karte kee mit Karta jaanai, 'ke' jaanai Gur soora". (The word 'kai' was wrongly pronounced. He pronounced it as 'ke'). [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]When Guru Ji listened to this, he ordered his Sikhs to cane the man. Other Sikhs prayed, "Guru Ji, why did you get this Sikh caned? A person, who recites even a single line of your bani, he is liberated; but this Sikh recited (whole of the composition of) 'Oankaar' and is beaten". [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Guru Ji smiled and said, "Brother! He did not 'research' before reading."[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Guru Ji asked that Sikh what he read. The Sikh again read that line wrongly. [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Guru Ji said "Pronounce this line, as 'Karte kee mit Kartaa jaanai, 'kai' jaanai Gur soora'. [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]"Brother! The meaning of this line is like this, 'The Creator knows His extent or the warrior Guru knows'. This Sikh mispronounced a vowel, which distorted the meanings like this, 'The Creator knows His extent. What does Guru know?' This is the contrary meaning. Sikh brothers! He, who pronounces the bani accurately, will be liberated. One who does not recite the Bani correctly will be punished.”[/FONT]
.....................................................................................................................

Why I admire your spirit you Pyramid Ji,

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Once, there was discussion about God. Guru Ji asked, "Brothers! Who was the king during Kabir's life-time?" [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Then, some old persons said, "Humanyoo".
Someone said, "Pithora".
One said, "Sikandar".
One said, "Madan Paal was the king".
There was a big debate for a long time. Guru Ji continued to listen.
“We cannot reach them; the God's men are high. The castes, 'varnas' and kingdoms, all remain lower.”
They all became silent. The Sikhs asked, "O True King! Why did you ask? Please tell yourself".
Guru Ji said, "This is the glory of 'Naam'. Kabir was a poor weaver. Everyone knows him. And the king was the owner of large kingdoms of the world, no one knows him (now). See the glory of the 'Name'. There were thousands of Pandits, Shah, astrologers, kings, but all are unknown (now). By the grace of 'Name', Kabir is called the knowledgeable and 'Sidh' (perfect). O Sikhs! The 'Name' is great. It was 'Sikandar Shah' (who was the king during the lifetime of Kabeer). He conquered India, he bowed before Kabir Ji after seeing the miracle of Kabir. O Sikhs! He, who repeats the 'Name', is the Sikh of the Guru. Repeat the 'Name' and do the 'seva' (service) with thy hands."
[/FONT]..................................................................................................................

Why I should not question your devotion about Guru being God, Pyramid Ji :

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Once, a Sikh made a request before the Guru Ji, "O true King! I am grieved by the world. Eliminate the pain of birth and death. Save me from sins. I am in your protection. I am illiterate". [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Guru Ji said, "Brother Sikh! You are blessed that you became detached (from the world). An fool cannot get sense without education. One should get education. An uneducated person cannot understand anything. The God meets him, whose pronunciation of 'Bani' is perfect. Brother! Do study. [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Guru Ji asked the 'Granthi' to teach that Sikh with love. The 'Granthi' started to teach him. While teaching, he taught him this line of Anand Sahib prayer, "Anand bhya meree maaye, Satguroo main paaya." (The heavenly pleasure occurred, O my mother, for I have found my True Guru). [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]The Sikh recited this line with love and went reciting it. Sometimes, he would eat from 'langar' (the community kitchen). His faith increased reciting this line. [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]After six months, Guru Ji asked the Granthi, "Did he learn?" [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]He replied, "He did not return after learning one line." [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Guru Ji called for that Sikh and asked, "You were sent to learn." [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]He replied with folded hands, "Guru Ji! One line is enough. When the True Guru has been found, 'Anand' is gotten. (Without getting the 'Anand') more reciting is the act of 'Bemukhs'." [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Guru Ji smiled and said, "You are 'nihaal' (bliss). Your cycle of birth and death has been curtailed."[/FONT]

.................................................................................................................

 

[Astroboy]

Bhagat Namdev ji and a Dog


Sab Gobind Hai Sab Gobind Hai Gobind Bin Nahin Koi - ( Aasaa Saint Nam Dev - Guru Granth Sahib Page 485 ) => God is everything, God is everything. Without God, there is nothing at all.

"Truth and unity are one. One supreme Reality pervades the whole universe. A true devotee of God has a universal vision, a --perceeption of oneness. Bhagat Namdev perceives his Lord everywhere and sings the Glory of his all pervading Lord accordingly in the foregoing hymn."

God's name was always on the lips of Bhagat Namdev Ji. Bhagat ji had realised that indeed, everything is God's creation, and that God dwells inside every creature.
Bhagat jis devotion reached such a pitch that , One daywhen Namdev ji was sitting at a place doing his Bhajan, a dog came to the spot and ran away with the bread he had prepared for his midday meal. It is said that Bhagat Namdev ran after the dog not with a stick in his hand, but with a cup of Ghee; and he addressed the dog thus: "O Lord of the world! Why do You want to eat the dry bread? Take some Ghee along with it. It will taste much better". On hearing this the Lord gave his d ivine vision to Bhagat Namdev ji
hindhoo poojai dhaehuraa musulumaan museeth
=> The Hindu worships at the temple, the Muslim at the mosque.

naamae soee saeviaa jeh dhaehuraa n museeth
=> Naam Dayv serves that Lord, who is not limited to either the temple or the mosque. ||4||3||7|| ( Guru Granth Sahib Page 874)

My question : If Bhatt Bani is Guru, how about Bhagat Namdev's - isn't his bani Guru ?

If a devotee has the perception of oneness, he doesn't become God at all. If a devotee praises God, he doesn't become God.

 

[Pyramid]

Well, all opinions and debates are fruitless unless they are Guru-oriented. So the simplest answer is...what does Gurbani say?

Harjas Ji,
Thankyou

Tuhada Das
Yograj

 

[Pyramid]

namjap Ji,​

Thank you much for sharing *************** stories.​

Debate issues -- Pyramid you can do it! Mod​

Tuhada Das
Yograj​

 

[Pyramid]

Cyber Sangat Ji,

Gurparsaad sharing with all: Starting with Bani Bhagat Naam Dev Ji.

AMg 1252
ang 1252
Page 1252​

bdhu kI n hof mwDau mo isau ]​

budhuhu kee n hodd maadho mo sio

Why not make a bet with me, O Lord of Wealth?​

Twkur qy jnu jn qy Twkuru Kylu pirE hY qo isau ]1] rhwau ]
thaakur thae jun jun thae thaakur khael pariou hai tho sio
From the master comes the servant, and from the servant, comes the master. This is the game I play with You. ||1||Pause||​

Awpn dyau dyhurw Awpn Awp lgwvY pUjw ]
aapun dhaeo dhaehuraaaapun aap lugaavai poojaa
You Yourself are the deity, and You are the temple of worship. You are the devoted worshipper.​

jl qy qrMg qrMg qy hY jlu khn sunn kau dUjw ]1]
jul thae thurung thurung thae hai jul kehun sunun ko dhoojaa
From the water, the waves rise up, and from the waves, the water. They are only different by figures of speech. ||1||​

Awpih gwvY Awpih nwcY Awip bjwvY qUrw ]
aapehi gaavaiaapehi naachaiaap bujaavai thooraa
You Yourself sing, and You Yourself dance. You Yourself blow the bugle.​

khq nwmdyau qUM myro Twkuru jnu aUrw qU pUrw ]2]2]
kehuth naamudhaeo thoon maero thaakur jun ooraa thoo pooraa
Says Naam Dayv, You are my Lord and Master. Your humble servant is imperfect; You are perfect. ||2||2||​

AMg 163
ang 163
Page 163​

gauVI guAwryrI mhlw 4 cauQw caupdy
gourree guaaraeree mehulaa 4 chouthaa choupudhae
Gauree Gwaarayree, Fourth Mehl, Chau-Padas:​

<> siqgur pRswid ]
ik ounkaar sathigur prusaadh
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:​

pMifqu swsq isimRiq piVAw ]
punddith saasuth simrith parriaa
The Pandit - the religious scholar - recites the Shaastras and the Simritees;​

jogI gorKu gorKu kirAw ]
jogee gorukh gorukh kariaa
the Yogi cries out, ""Gorakh, Gorakh"".​

mY mUrK hir hir jpu piVAw ]1]
mai moorukh har har jup parriaa
But I am just a fool - I just chant the Name of the Lord, Har, Har. ||1||​

nw jwnw ikAw giq rwm hmwrI ]
naa jaanaa kiaa gath raam humaaree
I do not know what my condition shall be, Lord.​

hir Bju mn myry qru Baujlu qU qwrI ]1] rhwau ]
har bhuj mun maerae thur bhoujul thoo thaaree
O my mind, vibrate and meditate on the Name of the Lord. You shall cross over the terrifying world-ocean. ||1||Pause||​

sMinAwsI ibBUq lwie dyh svwrI ]
sunniaasee bibhooth laae dhaeh suvaaree
The Sannyaasee smears his body with ashes;​

pr iqRA iqAwgu krI bRhmcwrI ]
pur thria thiaag kuree brehumuchaaree
renouncing other men's women, he practices celibacy.​

mY mUrK hir Aws qumwrI ]2]
mai moorukh har aas thumaaree
I am just a fool, Lord; I place my hopes in You! ||2||​

KqRI krm kry sUrqxu pwvY ]
khuthree kurum kurae sooruthun paavai
The Kh'shaatriya acts bravely, and is recognized as a warrior.​

sUdu vYsu pr ikriq kmwvY ]
soodh vais pur kirath kumaavai
The Shoodra and the Vaisha work and slave for others;​

mY mUrK hir nwmu CfwvY ]3]
mai moorukh har naam shuddaavai
I am just a fool - I am saved by the Lord's Name. ||3||​

sB qyrI isRsit qUM Awip rihAw smweI ]
subh thaeree srisatt thoon aap rehiaa sumaaee
The entire Universe is Yours; You Yourself permeate and pervade it.​

gurmuiK nwnk dy vifAweI ]
gurumukh naanuk dhae vaddiaaee
O Nanak, the Gurmukhs are blessed with glorious greatness.​

mY AMDuly hir tyk itkweI ]4]1]39]
mai andhulae har ttaek ttikaaee
I am blind - I have taken the Lord as my Support. ||4||1||39||​

FOR PYRAMID MOOR, BANI IS HAR HAR. Bani Nirankaar.​

AMg 197
ang 197
Page 197​

gauVI mhlw 5 ]
gourree mehulaa 5
Gauree, Fifth Mehl:​

jo pRwxI goivMdu iDAwvY ]
jo praanee govindh dhiaavai
That mortal who meditates on the Lord of the Universe,​

piVAw AxpiVAw prm giq pwvY ]1]
parriaa anuparriaa purum gath paavai
whether educated or uneducated, obtains the state of supreme dignity. ||1||​

swDU sMig ismir gopwl ]
saadhoo sung simar gopaal
In the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, meditate on the Lord of the World.​

ibnu nwvY JUTw Dnu mwlu ]1] rhwau ]
bin naavai jhoothaa dhun maal
Without the Name, wealth and property are false. ||1||Pause||​

rUpvMqu so cquru isAwxw ]
roopuvunth so chuthur siaanaa
They alone are handsome, clever and wise,​

ijin jin mwinAw pRB kw Bwxw ]2]
jin jan maaniaa prubh kaa bhaanaa
who surrender to the Will of God. ||2||​

jg mih AwieAw so prvwxu ]
jug mehiaaeiaa so puruvaan
Blessed is their coming into this world,​

Git Git Apxw suAwmI jwxu ]3]
ghatt ghatt apunaa suaamee jaan
if they recognize their Lord and Master in each and every heart. ||3||​

khu nwnk jw ky pUrn Bwg ]
kuhu naanuk jaa kae poorun bhaag
Says Nanak, their good fortune is perfect,​

hir crxI qw kw mnu lwg ]4]90]159]
har churunee thaa kaa mun laag
if they enshrine the Lord's Feet within their minds. ||4||90||159||​

AMg 339

ang 339
Page 339​

rwjw rwm qUM AYsw inrBau qrn qwrn rwm rwieAw ]1] rhwau ]
raajaa raam thoon aisaa nirubho thurun thaarun raam raaeiaa
O my Sovereign Lord King, You are Fearless; You are the Carrier to carry us across, O my Lord King. ||1||Pause||​

jb hm hoqy qb qum nwhI Ab qum hhu hm nwhI ]
jub hum hothae thub thum naahee ab thum huhu hum naahee
When I was, then You were not; now that You are, I am not.​

Ab hm qum eyk Bey hih eykY dyKq mnu pqIAwhI ]1]
ab hum thum eaek bheae hehi eaekai dhaekhuth mun putheeaahee
Now, You and I have become one; seeing this, my mind is content. ||1||​

jb buiD hoqI qb blu kYsw Ab buiD blu n KtweI ]
jub budh hothee thub bul kaisaa ab budh bul n khuttaaee
When there was wisdom, how could there be strength? Now that there is wisdom, strength cannot prevail.​

kih kbIr buiD hir leI myrI buiD bdlI isiD pweI ]2]21]72]
kehi kubeer budh har lee maeree budh budhulee sidh paaee
Says Kabeer, the Lord has taken away my wisdom, and I have attained spiritual perfection. ||2||21||72||​

AMg 7
ang 7
Page 7​

AwKix joru cupY nh joru ]
aakhan jor chupai neh jor
No power to speak, no power to keep silent.​

joru n mMgix dyix n joru ]
jor n mungan dhaen n jor
No power to beg, no power to give.​

joru n jIvix mrix nh joru ]
jor n jeevan muran neh jor
No power to live, no power to die.​

joru n rwij mwil min soru ]
jor n raaj maal man sor
No power to rule, with wealth and occult mental powers.​

joru n surqI igAwin vIcwir ]
jor n suruthee giaan veechaar
No power to gain intuitive understanding, spiritual wisdom and meditation.​

joru n jugqI CutY sMswru ]
jor n juguthee shuttai sunsaar
No power to find the way to escape from the world.​

ijsu hiQ joru kir vyKY soie ]
jis hath jor kar vaekhai soe
He alone has the Power in His Hands. He watches over all.​

nwnk auqmu nIcu n koie ]33]
naanuk outhum neech n koe
O Nanak, no one is high or low. ||33||​

AMg 405
ang 405
Page 405​

rwgu Awsw mhlw 5 Gru 12
raag aasaa mehulaa 5 ghur 12
Raag Aasaa, Fifth Mehl, Twelfth House:​

<> siqgur pRswid ]
ik ounkaar sath
igur prusaadh ​

One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:​

iqAwig sgl isAwnpw Bju pwrbRhm inrMkwru ]
thiaag sugul siaanupaa bhuj paarubrehum nirunkaar
Renounce all your cleverness and remember the Supreme, Formless Lord God.​

eyk swcy nwm bwJhu sgl dIsY Cwru ]1]
eaek saachae naam baajhuhu sugul dheesai shaar
Without the One True Name, everything appears as dust. ||1||​

so pRBu jwxIAY sd sMig ]
so prubh jaaneeai sudh sung
Know that God is always with you.​

gur pRswdI bUJIAY eyk hir kY rMig ]1] rhwau ]
gur prusaadhee boojheeai eaek har kai rung
By Guru's Grace, one understands, and is imbued with the Love of the One Lord. ||1||Pause||​

srix smrQ eyk kyrI dUjw nwhI Twau ]
suran sumuruth eaek kaeree dhoojaa naahee thaao
Seek the Shelter of the One All-powerful Lord; there is no other place of rest.​

mhw Baujlu lµGIAY sdw hir gux gwau ]2]
mehaa bhoujul lungheeai sudhaa har gun gaao
The vast and terrifying world-ocean is crossed over, singing continually the Glorious Praises of the Lord. ||2||​

jnm mrxu invwrIAY duKu n jm puir hoie ]
junum murun nivaareeai dhukh n jum pur hoe
Birth and death are overcome, and one does not have to suffer in the City of Death.​

nwmu inDwnu soeI pwey ik®pw kry pRBu soie ]3]
naam nidhaan soee paaeae kirupaa kurae prubh soe
He alone obtains the treasure of the Naam, the Name of the Lord, unto whom God shows His Mercy. ||3||​

eyk tyk ADwru eyko eyk kw min joru ]
eaek ttaek adhaar eaeko eaek kaa man jor
The One Lord is my Anchor and Support; the One Lord alone is the power of my mind.​

nwnk jpIAY imil swDsMgiq hir ibnu Avru n horu ]4]1]136]
naanuk jupeeai mil saadhusungath har bin avur n hor
O Nanak, joining the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, meditate on Him; without the Lord, there is no other at all. ||4||1||136||​

AMg 653
ang 653
Page 653​

pauVI ]​

pourree

Pauree:​

qU krx kwrx smrQu hih krqy mY quJ ibnu Avru n koeI ]

thoo kurun kaarun sumuruth hehi kuruthae mai thujh bin avur n koee​

You are the Creator, all-powerful, able to do anything. Without You, there is no other at all.​

quDu Awpy issit isrjIAw Awpy Puin goeI ]

thudh aapae sisatt sirujeeaaaapae fun goee​

You Yourself created the world, and You Yourself shall destroy it in the end.​

sBu ieko sbdu vrqdw jo kry su hoeI ]

subh eiko subudh vuruthudhaa jo kurae s hoee​

The Word of Your Shabad alone is pervading everywhere; whatever You do, comes to pass.​

vifAweI gurmuiK dyie pRBu hir pwvY soeI ]

vaddiaaee gurumukh dhaee prubh har paavai soee​

God blesses the Gurmukh with glorious greatness, and then, he finds the Lord.​

gurmuiK nwnk AwrwiDAw siB AwKhu DMnu DMnu DMnu guru soeI ]29]1] suDu

gurumukh naanuk aaraadhiaa sabh aakhuhu dhunn dhunn dhunn gur soee​

As Gurmukh, Nanak worships and adores the Lord; let everyone proclaim, ""Blessed, blessed, blessed is He, the Guru!""||29||1||Sudh||​

AMg 1270

ang 1270
Page 1270​

rwgu mlwr mhlw 5 caupdy Gru 2

raag mulaar mehulaa 5 choupudhae ghur 2​

Raag Malaar, Fifth Mehl, Chau-Padas, Second House:​

<> siqgur pRswid ]

ik ounkaar sathigur prusaadh ​

One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:​

gurmuiK dIsY bRhm pswru ]

gurumukh dheesai brehum pusaar ​

The Gurmukh sees God pervading everywhere.​

gurmuiK qRY guxIAW ibsQwru ]

gurumukh thrai guneeaa bisuthaar ​

The Gurmukh knows that the universe is the extension of the three gunas, the three dispositions.​

gurmuiK nwd byd bIcwru ]

gurumukh naadh baedh beechaar ​

The Gurmukh reflects on the Sound-current of the Naad, and the wisdom of the Vedas.​

ibnu gur pUry Gor AMDwru ]1]

bin gur poorae ghor andhaar ​

Without the Perfect Guru, there is only pitch-black darkness. ||1||​

myry mn guru guru krq sdw suKu pweIAY ]

maerae mun gur gur kuruth sudhaa sukh paaeeai​

O my mind, calling on the Guru, eternal peace is found.​

gur aupdyis hir ihrdY visE swis igrwis Apxw Ksmu iDAweIAY ]1] rhwau ]

gur oupudhaes har hirudhai vasiou saas giraas apunaa khusum dhiaaeeai​

Following the Guru's Teachings, the Lord comes to dwell within the heart; I meditate on my Lord and Master with every breath and morsel of food. ||1||Pause||​

gur ky crx ivthu bil jwau ]

gur kae churun vittuhu bal jaao ​

I am a sacrifice to the Guru's Feet.​

gur ky gux Anidnu inq gwau ]

gur kae gun anadhin nith gaao ​

Night and day, I continually sing the Glorious Praises of the Guru.​

gur kI DUiV krau iesnwnu ]

gur kee dhoorr kuro eisunaan ​

I take my cleansing bath in the dust of the Guru's Feet.​

swcI drgh pweIAY mwnu ]2]

saachee dhurugeh paaeeai maan ​

I am honored in the True Court of the Lord. ||2||​

guru boihQu Bvjl qwrxhwru ]

gur bohith bhuvujul thaarunehaar ​

The Guru is the boat, to carry me across the terrifying world-ocean.​

guir ByitAY n hoie join Aauqwru ]

gur bhaettiai n hoe jon aouthaar ​

Meeting with the Guru, I shall not be reincarnated ever again.​

gur kI syvw so jnu pwey ]

gur kee saevaa so jun paaeae​

That humble being serves the Guru,​

jw kau krim iliKAw Duir Awey ]3]

jaa ko kuram likhiaa dhur aaeae​

who has such karma inscribed on his forehead by the Primal Lord. ||3||​

guru myrI jIvin guru AwDwru ]

gur maeree jeevan gur aadhaar ​

The Guru is my life; the Guru is my support.​

guru myrI vrqix guru prvwru ]

gur maeree vuruthan gur puruvaar ​

The Guru is my way of life; the Guru is my family.​

guru myrw Ksmu siqgur srxweI ]

gur maeraa khusum sathigur surunaaee​

The Guru is my Lord and Master; I seek the Sanctuary of the True Guru.​

nwnk guru pwrbRhmu jw kI kIm n pweI ]4]1]19]

naanuk gur paarubrehum jaa kee keem n paaee​

O Nanak, the Guru is the Supreme Lord God; His value cannot be estimated. ||4||1||19||​

​

Tuhada Das

Papi Yograj​

 

[Astroboy]

Here's a post by Balbir Singh Ji
(Source: Is Gurbaanee also Nirankaar?)
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/19713-is-gurbaanee-also-nirankaar-2.html#post70791

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
Dear all and Neech Jee!

Welcome to this forum.
God incarnates to execute all His activities. For human beings those are Godly and demonic, different. Neech is also an incarnation of God.
Your answer to the curiosity 'Is Gurbaanee also Nirankaar' is 'YES'.

Sometime back after a call from Gurdwaaraa Head Sikhs collected old BeeRs and Gutkas. They went on a particular day as planned on the bank of a river and celebrated the 'Daah Sanskaar'. The scene was touchy.
I was happy as Gurbaanee had incarnated as Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee and Gutkaas earlier.
This is the difference. A Jeev reincarnates life after the death ceremony.
Nirankaar incarnates before the death ceremony done by Sikhs.

Are Sikhs celebrating 'Daah Sanskaar' of Nirankaar knowingly?


Some of us would find this post controversial. Your comments can add to the current topic as well.

 

[pk70]

there it is again... that confusion about Guru is God being the same thing as incarnation. it's not, by the way. if you read through the several threads on this topic you might see that.

Guru's Shabad also tells us that Nanak is God himself. shall i just take your word for it that Gurbani is WRONG? no, sorry, i'll listen to Guru and try not to set my own limitations on God.

thanks for responding.

Jasleen_Kaur ji

By the way I never requested you to follow me. I have just shared what my limited understang of Gurbani is. According to you, Guru Shabad says Nanak is God, to me it doent say so. Good luck

 

[Pyramid]

Here's a post by Balbir Singh Ji
(Source: Is Gurbaanee also Nirankaar?)
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/19713-is-gurbaanee-also-nirankaar-2.html#post70791

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
Dear all and Neech Jee!

Welcome to this forum.
God incarnates to execute all His activities. For human beings those are Godly and demonic, different. Neech is also an incarnation of God.
Your answer to the curiosity 'Is Gurbaanee also Nirankaar' is 'YES'.

Sometime back after a call from Gurdwaaraa Head Sikhs collected old BeeRs and Gutkas. They went on a particular day as planned on the bank of a river and celebrated the 'Daah Sanskaar'. The scene was touchy.
I was happy as Gurbaanee had incarnated as Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee and Gutkaas earlier.
This is the difference. A Jeev reincarnates life after the death ceremony.
Nirankaar incarnates before the death ceremony done by Sikhs.

Are Sikhs celebrating 'Daah Sanskaar' of Nirankaar knowingly?


Some of us would find this post controversial. Your comments can add to the current topic as well.

Cyber Sangat Ji,

as far as papi yograj knows that it is done to pay respects to the place where Gurbani is printed. Dehi that helped us read Gurbani, Dehi that shared Nirankaar with us mortals. Jithay jaaey bahay mera satguru so thaan suhaava raam rai.
Any place where Guru is Residing is worth of recieving respects. With Guru Ji's grace as the understanding expands, no place(in real it is not but mind thinks it to be) remain without Guru, -I am out of words now.

Tuhada Das
Papi Yograj


namjap Ji,

Thankyou for pointing this out, now we will have this point discussed as well. We will be more confident of Bani- Nirankaar Gurshabad. Thankyou.

Bani Nirankaar Hai, Tis jevad avar na koi.

Tuhada Das
Papi Yograj

 

[Pyramid]

Cyber Sangat Ji,

More Gurparsaad:

ਗੋਂਡ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥
gonadd mehalaa 5 ||
Gond, Fifth Mehl:

ਗੁਰੁ ਮੇਰੀ ਪੂਜਾ ਗੁਰੁ ਗੋਬਿੰਦੁ ॥
gur maeree poojaa gur gobindh ||
I worship and adore my Guru; the Guru is the Lord of the Universe.

ਗੁਰੁ ਮੇਰਾ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਭਗਵੰਤੁ ॥
gur maeraa paarabreham gur bhagavanth ||
My Guru is the Supreme Lord God; the Guru is the Lord God.

ਗੁਰੁ ਮੇਰਾ ਦੇਉ ਅਲਖ ਅਭੇਉ ॥
gur maeraa dhaeo alakh abhaeo ||
My Guru is divine, invisible and mysterious.

ਸਰਬ ਪੂਜ ਚਰਨ ਗੁਰ ਸੇਉ ॥੧॥
sarab pooj charan gur saeo ||1||
I serve at the Guru's feet, which are worshipped by all. ||1||

ਗੁਰ ਬਿਨੁ ਅਵਰੁ ਨਾਹੀ ਮੈ ਥਾਉ ॥
gur bin avar naahee mai thhaao ||
Without the Guru, I have no other place at all.

ਅਨਦਿਨੁ ਜਪਉ ਗੁਰੂ ਗੁਰ ਨਾਉ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
anadhin japo guroo gur naao ||1|| rehaao ||
Night and day, I chant the Name of Guru, Guru. ||1||Pause||

ਗੁਰੁ ਮੇਰਾ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਰਿਦੈ ਧਿਆਨੁ ॥
gur maeraa giaan gur ridhai dhhiaan ||
The Guru is my spiritual wisdom, the Guru is the meditation within my heart.

ਗੁਰੁ ਗੋਪਾਲੁ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਭਗਵਾਨੁ ॥
gur gopaal purakh bhagavaan ||
The Guru is the Lord of the World, the Primal Being, the Lord God.

ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਸਰਣਿ ਰਹਉ ਕਰ ਜੋਰਿ ॥
gur kee saran reho kar jor ||
With my palms pressed together, I remain in the Guru's Sanctuary.

ਗੁਰੂ ਬਿਨਾ ਮੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਹੋਰੁ ॥੨॥
guroo binaa mai naahee hor ||2||
Without the Guru, I have no other at all. ||2||

ਗੁਰੁ ਬੋਹਿਥੁ ਤਾਰੇ ਭਵ ਪਾਰਿ ॥
gur bohithh thaarae bhav paar ||
The Guru is the boat to cross over the terrifying world-ocean.

ਗੁਰ ਸੇਵਾ ਜਮ ਤੇ ਛੁਟਕਾਰਿ ॥
gur saevaa jam thae shhuttakaar ||
Serving the Guru, one is released from the Messenger of Death.

ਅੰਧਕਾਰ ਮਹਿ ਗੁਰ ਮੰਤ੍ਰੁ ਉਜਾਰਾ ॥
andhhakaar mehi gur manthra oujaaraa ||
In the darkness, the Guru's Mantra shines forth.

ਗੁਰ ਕੈ ਸੰਗਿ ਸਗਲ ਨਿਸਤਾਰਾ ॥੩॥
gur kai sang sagal nisathaaraa ||3||
With the Guru, all are saved. ||3||

ਗੁਰੁ ਪੂਰਾ ਪਾਈਐ ਵਡਭਾਗੀ ॥
gur pooraa paaeeai vaddabhaagee ||
The Perfect Guru is found, by great good fortune.

ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਸੇਵਾ ਦੂਖੁ ਨ ਲਾਗੀ ॥
gur kee saevaa dhookh n laagee ||
Serving the Guru, pain does not afflict anyone.

ਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਸਬਦੁ ਨ ਮੇਟੈ ਕੋਇ ॥
gur kaa sabadh n maettai koe ||
No one can erase the Word of the Guru's Shabad.

ਗੁਰੁ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਹਰਿ ਸੋਇ ॥੪॥੭॥੯॥
gur naanak naanak har soe ||4||7||9||
Nanak is the Guru; Nanak is the Lord Himself. ||4||7||9||

Tuhada Das
Papi Yograj

 

[Astroboy]

Pyramid Ji,

Thank you for sharing a beautiful vaak from Gurdev.
It is said that an ounce of practice is better than tons of theory.

The stories may be man-ghadat to you. But not for me. For me 10 gurus' lifetimes were spent in Gurbani uchaaran. It is good to learn from sources which quote these sakhis. Here's another one from this source: ARE YOU EVEN HALF A DISCIPLE?

During the life of Guru Arjan Sahib, a certain family of devotees who were talented in singing the holy scriptures approached the Guru for some financial help to cover the cost of their daughter's marriage. Guru Arjan said, "All right, it will be given." They waited for some days, but nothing further was said; so once again they faced the Guru and said, "Maharaj, we do not want very much; so if each sikh [i.e. disciple] could give one taka [two pice-about a third of a cent] that would be enough." Guru Arjan replied, "All right, tomorrow we will see." The days passed by without further development, and again they approached their Guru, saying, "Please do something quickly, for the date of the marriage is upon us." The Guru said, "All right, tomorrow I will give." When they came to Him the following day, He took out four and a half takas and gave it to them. They looked at the small amount in surprise and said, "Maharaj, what is this? You have such a huge gathering of disciples, and yet you have given us only four and a half takas." Guru Arjan replied, "You said you wanted one taka per Sikh. The first Sikh was Guru Nanak, the second was Guru Angad, the third was Guru Amar Das, the fourth was Guru Ramdas, and, well, the half taka is for me-I am only half a Sikh-and that makes a total of four and a half takas." It was a sharp lesson to those who had thought to be clever and a wonderful example of the humility of Guru Arjan.

 

[Pyramid]

Pyramid Ji,

Thank you for sharing a beautiful vaak from Gurdev.
It is said that an ounce of practice is better than tons of theory.

The stories may be man-ghadat to you. But not for me. For me 10 gurus' lifetimes were spent in Gurbani uchaaran. It is good to learn from sources which quote these sakhis. Here's another one from this source: ARE YOU EVEN HALF A DISCIPLE?

During the life of Guru Arjan Sahib, a certain family of devotees who were talented in singing the holy scriptures approached the Guru for some financial help to cover the cost of their daughter's marriage. Guru Arjan said, "All right, it will be given." They waited for some days, but nothing further was said; so once again they faced the Guru and said, "Maharaj, we do not want very much; so if each sikh [i.e. disciple] could give one taka [two pice-about a third of a cent] that would be enough." Guru Arjan replied, "All right, tomorrow we will see." The days passed by without further development, and again they approached their Guru, saying, "Please do something quickly, for the date of the marriage is upon us." The Guru said, "All right, tomorrow I will give." When they came to Him the following day, He took out four and a half takas and gave it to them. They looked at the small amount in surprise and said, "Maharaj, what is this? You have such a huge gathering of disciples, and yet you have given us only four and a half takas." Guru Arjan replied, "You said you wanted one taka per Sikh. The first Sikh was Guru Nanak, the second was Guru Angad, the third was Guru Amar Das, the fourth was Guru Ramdas, and, well, the half taka is for me-I am only half a Sikh-and that makes a total of four and a half takas." It was a sharp lesson to those who had thought to be clever and a wonderful example of the humility of Guru Arjan.

namjap Ji,

Thankyou for sharing theory after theory.

Tuhada Das
Papi Yograj

 

[spnadmin]

I Can't Moderate Fast Enough Here. Please. Let Us Return To Issues!!!!! With Love, But Also This Ping Pong Match Is Good Entertainment For The Kids Over In The Arcade.

 

[Pyramid]

namjap Ji,​

Thank you much for sharing *************** stories.​

Debate issues -- Pyramid you can do it! Mod​

Tuhada Das
Yograj​

Aad Ji,

I think your message travelled faster than the speed of light.

Pendu desi bandaa, shehree saleeka sikhann nu time laggoo.(I am moor from a village, it will take me time to learn your city life style), But I will get there with Guru Kirpa. There is nothing impossible with Guru Kirpa.

Tuhada Das
Papi Yograj

 

[Astroboy]

If Guru Arjan considered Himself but half a Sikh, then what are we? These days, anyone who learns to give a short talk on the subject becomes a guru overnight. The mere reading of books and learning of hymns by heart - shouting, laughing, singing, making people cry with emotion - and finally saying, "Go, child, you are saved," does not make a Guru. So, listen carefully to the Guru's words on the subject, which speak for themselves:

If the Guru-sikhra is seen, again and again will I bow to Him;
I will tell my innermost thoughts and say,
0 Beloved Guru, join me back to God.

Page 763, Line 1
ਜੋ ਦੀਸੈ ਗੁਰਸਿਖੜਾ ਤਿਸੁ ਨਿਵਿ ਨਿਵਿ ਲਾਗਉ ਪਾਇ ਜੀਉ ॥
जो दीसै गुरसिखड़ा तिसु निवि निवि लागउ पाइ जीउ ॥
Jo ḏīsai gursikẖ&shy;ṛā ṯis niv niv lāga&shy;o pā&shy;ė jī&shy;o.
When I see a Sikh of the Guru, I humbly bow and fall at his feet.
Guru Arjan Dev

 

[spnadmin]

Pyramid ji

OH Thank you. I want to read your commentary :idea:without interruption. So thank you very much.

 

[Pyramid]

Aad Ji - a request here and a clarification.

I said mangharant, right.
This is same as- madeup.

Why Bhagat's statement was not deleted when he said- I made up Panja Sahib Stiory.
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/gurmat-vichaar/20534-physical-body-is-not-god-2.html

He clearly told me to stop making up stuff.
Why you didn't show up there to help me, may I ask?

Tuhada Das
Papi Yograj

 

[Pyramid]

If Guru Arjan considered Himself but half a Sikh, then what are we? These days, anyone who learns to give a short talk on the subject becomes a guru overnight. The mere reading of books and learning of hymns by heart - shouting, laughing, singing, making people cry with emotion - and finally saying, "Go, child, you are saved," does not make a Guru. So, listen carefully to the Guru's words on the subject, which speak for themselves:
quote]

This is exactly papi yograj wants to share with people - Please dont believe in any one- But Guru. Dont believe in anything that is not in line with Gurbani.
Live and share the Truth- Gurbani.

Tuhada Das
Papi Yograj