Hukam And Medical Treatment

[seeker3k]

eka naam hukum hai nanak satgur diya bhujai jio

This is very intrusion point what gurbanicd wrote. It raise few points in my mind.

eka naam hukum hai nanak satgur diya bhujai jio
<!-- google_ad_section_end --><o> </o>

Eka naam mean there is only one naam it is from hukam of God. This naam is made it known by satguru. Says Nanak.
I know many people will think that Nanak is satguru. And some will argue that satguru is God.

Does any one see what I see?

Sorry if I am taking this forum in different direction

seekr3 jio

It is a great observation. Intriguing. It is taking the discussion away from the core subject.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Not Exactly...in my opinion NAAM means OBEYING THE HUKM. The TWO have to be TOGETHER...one cannot possibly be a "person of Naam" and NOT OBEY the HUKM..and one who Obeys the HUKM automatically is a Naam Person !!
THIS is why the GURBANI/GURMATT is for PRACTISING...APPLYING....OBEYING THE HUKM !! Gurbani tell us HOW to OBEY...what happens to those who OBEY...and how exhilirating it is to OBEY......OBEY...OBEY..OBEY..and one turns into a Naam Bhiyasee Brahmgyani..one with the Brahm...
People have gotten onto the wrong paths when they choose one "word" and call it Naam and then begin RECITING/JAPPING....without OBEYING....APPLYING....PRACTISING the Naam in Essence...

 

[Rajwinder]

Answering the original question :

- "Keeping our body in the same form as created by Waheguru" surely is a gesture of respect to him.
- Design of the body is surely marvelous.
- But maintenance of this body is up to us humans.
- We cant deny contribution of science in helping maintaining this body, Gone cases 20 years back are normal cases now.
- But at the same time science can not answer all the "why" but i think Guru Granth Sahib ji do answer that.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Guru Ji told the Sidhs and the Yogis in Sidh Ghhosht...."WHY waste your precious time..in useless pursuits..such as WHICH WORD did the Creator use to produce the Universe..some beleive it was OM..other s said its KUN..and so on...GURU JI said.."whne the Creator "said" that WORD..no one was around to hear it....and so ONLY the Creator KNOWS..why do we waste our time trying to find out what we cannot ever KNOW !!!....and so on and so on..People just like to argue..endlessly....arguing...waste of time...
BEGIN READING...APPLYING...GURBANI in our LIVES..to CHANGE for the better..

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

RAJWINDER Ji.
ACCEPT my Divine Greetings,
I fully appreciate yoour views.
I hope we can interact more on how the concept of modern science and Gurbaani
convey similar messages to us.
with best wishes
Prakash.s.bagga

 

[Tejwant Singh]

sdad ji,

Guru fateh.

You write:

In addition, it is possible that past karma requires a person to go through something so they may learn and move on,

Would you be kind enough to elaborate what you mean by past karma?Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh

 

[spnadmin]

Discussions of Gurbani grammar in threads where it is not relevant to core issues and adds nothing to their understanding will be deleted without warning.

 

[spnadmin]

RAJWINDER Ji.
ACCEPT my Divine Greetings,
I fully appreciate yoour views.
I hope we can interact more on how the concept of modern science and Gurbaani
convey similar messages to us.
with best wishes
Prakash.s.bagga

If SPN members wish to carry this concept of modern science and Gurbani further, please start a new thread. All members are encourage to start threads. However,please investigate earlier threads started and discussed on your topic of choice to avoid duplication and redundancy. Thank you

 

[sunmukh]

Ek OnKaar Sat Naam

Suupose a majority of the Sikh quom would agree with what you have stated above, and then tried to impose its opinion on others who dd not agree. Would you be comfortable with that scenario?

Or suppose parents were to withhold some forms of treatment from children because they themselves did not accept heart surgery or dialysis through their own intepretations of gurbani. Would you be comfortable with that?

SPNadmin ji, this is a very tricky topic.

It is almost impossible to reconcile personal opinion on such a theme with all interpretations of Gurbani.

Gurbani is there, for all to read and consider, but people will still interpret the Lord's Hukam as it suits their personal circumstances, and this includes myself. Then there are those who are content to ignore the Lord's Hukam.

I have no panacea or chintaman (touchstone) type solution to offer to the infinite variety of anxieties expressed by learned members.

As far as I can make out, Gurbani offers one universal remedy to all my woes and suffering, now and yet to experienced later on in this lifetime. For me, from a completely personal individual view, (which some may perceive as a selfish view), it is a sufficient solution.

An example of the remedy is given by Guru Ram Das ji, in the shabd commencing P1321:

<TABLE cellSpacing=5><TBODY><TR><TD>ਕਲਿਆਨ ਮਹਲਾ ੪ ॥
Kali▫ān mėhlā 4.
Kalyaan, Fourth Mehl:

</TD></TR><TR><TD>ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕੀਜੈ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਨਿਧਾਨ ਹਮ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਨ ਗਾਵਹਗੇ ॥
Parabẖ kījai kirpā niḏẖān ham har gun gāvhage.
O God, Treasure of Mercy, please bless me, that I may sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord.

</TD></TR><TR><TD>ਹਉ ਤੁਮਰੀ ਕਰਉ ਨਿਤ ਆਸ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਮੋਹਿ ਕਬ ਗਲਿ ਲਾਵਹਿਗੇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
Ha▫o ṯumrī kara▫o niṯ ās parabẖ mohi kab gal lāvhige. ||1|| rahā▫o.
I always place my hopes in You; O God, when will you take me in Your Embrace? ||1||Pause||
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Guru ji continues (same page) :

<TABLE cellSpacing=5><TBODY><TR><TD>ਜੋ ਹਰਿ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਤੁਮ ਦੇਹੁ ਸੋਈ ਹਮ ਪਾਵਹਗੇ ॥
Jo har su▫āmī ṯum ḏeh so▫ī ham pāvhage.
Whatever You give me, O my Lord and Master - that is what I receive.

</TD></TR><TR><TD>ਮੋਹਿ ਦੂਜੀ ਨਾਹੀ ਠਉਰ ਜਿਸੁ ਪਹਿ ਹਮ ਜਾਵਹਗੇ ॥੨॥
Mohi ḏūjī nāhī ṯẖa▫ur jis pėh ham jāvhage. ||2||
There is no other place where I can go. ||2||

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

and also on same page:

<TABLE cellSpacing=5><TBODY><TR><TD>

</TD></TR><TR><TD>ਕਲਿਆਨੁ ਭੋਪਾਲੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੪
Kali▫ān bẖopālī mėhlā 4
Kalyaan Bhopaalee, Fourth Mehl:

</TD></TR><TR><TD>ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥
Ik▫oaʼnkār saṯgur parsāḏ.
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

</TD></TR><TR><TD>ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਪਰਮੇਸੁਰੁ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਦੂਖ ਨਿਵਾਰਣੁ ਨਾਰਾਇਣੇ ॥
Pārbarahm parmesur su▫āmī ḏūkẖ nivāraṇ nārā▫iṇe.
O Supreme Lord God, Transcendent Lord and Master, Destroyer of pain, Transcendental Lord God.

</TD></TR><TR><TD>ਸਗਲ ਭਗਤ ਜਾਚਹਿ ਸੁਖ ਸਾਗਰ ਭਵ ਨਿਧਿ ਤਰਣ ਹਰਿ ਚਿੰਤਾਮਣੇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
Sagal bẖagaṯ jācẖėh sukẖ sāgar bẖav niḏẖ ṯaraṇ har cẖinṯāmaṇe. ||1|| rahā▫o.
All Your devotees beg of You. Ocean of peace, carry us across the terrifying world-ocean; You are the Wish-fulfilling Jewel. ||1||Pause||


</TD></TR><TR><TD>ਦੀਨ ਦਇਆਲ ਜਗਦੀਸ ਦਮੋਦਰ ਹਰਿ ਅੰਤਰਜਾਮੀ ਗੋਬਿੰਦੇ ॥
Ḏīn ḏa▫i▫āl jagḏīs ḏamoḏar har anṯarjāmī gobinḏe.
Merciful to the meek and poor, Lord of the world, Support of the earth, Inner-knower, Searcher of hearts, Lord of the Universe.


</TD></TR><TR><TD>ਤੇ ਨਿਰਭਉ ਜਿਨ ਸ੍ਰੀਰਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਇਆ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਮੁਰਾਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਮੁਕੰਦੇ ॥੧॥
Ŧe nirbẖa▫o jin sarīrām ḏẖi▫ā▫i▫ā gurmaṯ murār har mukanḏe. ||1||
Those who meditate on the Supreme Lord become fearless. Through the Wisdom of the Guru's Teachings, they meditate on the Lord, the Liberator Lord. ||1||


</TD></TR><TR><TD>ਜਗਦੀਸੁਰ ਚਰਨ ਸਰਨ ਜੋ ਆਏ ਤੇ ਜਨ ਭਵ ਨਿਧਿ ਪਾਰਿ ਪਰੇ ॥
Jagḏīsur cẖaran saran jo ā▫e ṯe jan bẖav niḏẖ pār pare.
Those who come to Sanctuary at the Feet of the Lord of the Universe - those humble beings cross over the terrifying world-ocean.


</TD></TR><TR><TD>ਭਗਤ ਜਨਾ ਕੀ ਪੈਜ ਹਰਿ ਰਾਖੈ ਜਨ ਨਾਨਕ ਆਪਿ ਹਰਿ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਕਰੇ ॥੨॥੧॥੭॥
Bẖagaṯ janā kī paij har rākẖai jan Nānak āp har kirpā kare. ||2||1||7||
The Lord preserves the honor of His humble devotees; O servant Nanak, the Lord Himself showers them with His Grace. ||2||1||7||

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

For answers to particular hypothetical scenarios:

- I would not be comfortable with any religious grouping trying to impose their values. It is for the Lord God, Waheguru ji, to guide individuals.

- If parents tried to restrict medical aid to their own children I would respect their decisions. This is little different to the conditioning that takes place. As long as their is no deliberate abuse or efforts to speed up sufffering I would have no problem. Ideally, I would like the children to make the decisions, when they are mentally mature, such as when they are over 16 or so, so I would prefer that medical assistance was provided until they can make that decision. If they are mentally incapictated, then as a parent I would have to balance their suffering, with the quality of life they will endure. If there is cause for optimism, and good chance of improvement, then I would carry on with their treatment. If outlook was grim, I would request an end to treatment.

Personally, one of my daughters has Type 1 diabetes, which began at age 13. She cannot survive without regular injections of insulin each day. She is now 15. Initially I was very concerned for her, but now it is up to her as to how she handles her treatment, and she actually rejects interference. She knows the consequences, and it is up to her.

Would you be willing to accept withholding heart surgery or dialysis from any and all professed Sikhs, as a matter of Sikh rehit?

Would you be concerned if cultural opinion went against heart surgery or dialysis, in spite of no argument against medical treatment in Sri Guru Granth Sahib?

Again, I don't feel it is for religions to involve themselves at personal levels, and medical treatment is a personal matter. If Sikh Rehat insisted upon witholding treatment, I would accept it, as that is waht I want anyway. However if I was of the opposite view, I expect I would ignore the Sikh Rehat.

If cultural opinion was against treatment for serious ailments, then I would be happy with it. It is an attitude I would support, as I do not feel their is virtue in seeking to defeat the Lord's Hukam .

Should we allow our preference for naturalistic states to be entrenched in culture and law because of personal definitions we have for "hukam."

SPNadmin ji, this is already the state we find ourselves in. There are already people who cannot afford treatment, and there are those who do not seek treatment, even when they can affford it. Any worded definitions of the Lord's Hukam cannot describe the complexity and infinite variations, manifestations and fexibility of the Lord's Hukam. Any new rigid manmade hukam, in say the SRM, limiting exercise of such preferences, would only lead to ones who hold naturalistic preferences to either ignore them or to stray and look elsewhere. There is much straying from Sikhi due to unpalatable hukams as it is, and one would wonder why there is a need to become yet more restrictive, when the Lord pervades throughout His creation.

P396:

ਤੇਰਾ ਹਕੁ ਮੁ ਅਪਾਰ ਹੈ ਕੋਈ ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਪਾਏ ॥
tayraa hukam apaar hai ko-ee ant na paa-ay.
Your Command is infinite; no one can find its limit

.

Sat Sri Akal

 

[sunmukh]

Ek OnKaar Sat Naam

Why the difference between paracetamol and heart surgery? They are both interventions!

What about inherited disorders or disorders that are not fatal but degrade quality of life and/or independence? For example, cataracts cause blindness. An operation to remove the cataract will restore vision and make you a more useful member of society? Is the blindness and resultant reliance on others also promoted in abstaning from medical treatment? What about mental health disorders which require medication, eg schizophrenia? Without medication they will not die but can have a negative impact on society.

How about other interventions such as physiotherapy? Or preventative actions such as vaccination which have a positive impact on society as a whole? Measles for example is very nasty and causes much pain but only rarely kills. Same with flu in the elderly.

Some of the children I have worked with who would have died without medical help, have ended up being more wonderful souls and have done more good for this Earth than their healthy counterparts!

Surely it is possible to live a simple, non-materialistic life without having to die early? Older people often act as an anchor in our modern fast moving life and are often the best influences on the people around them! Possibly it is better for society to retain them for their wisdom and ability to give perspective rather than lose them. Without perspective, materialism is likely to increase.

The environment is indeed a mess. A mess that I'm very passionate about. But surely the best way to tackle that is to raise awareness about habits amongst those you come into contact with so more can be done to preserve the Earth's treasures. And you can only be a campaigner when alive! Having a wasteful life then dying early isn't the answer IMHO.

Interesting perspective. Thanks for joining the debate

Findmyway ji, I thank you for your response.

Finding solutions that are always running in accord with a single track one-way path are very diificult to find. I cannot for the life of me say where exactly I would draw the line between one form of ailment and another, or one form of treatment and another. I can only comment loosely with use of extremes, such as paracetemol vs heart surgery. Where the line is drawn, if and when I come to a situation where I need to make a critical decision that will determine my life will depend on my frame of mind at the time. Hopefully I will still remember Guru ji's advice at that time, will retain full faith in God, and will not be clinging on with my finger nails for a few extra months or years. I hope my faith will allow me to progress to my next life, without any fear of death. If I am extremely fortunate, I will not be reborn. The Lord God will look after me hereafter as well as now, so I have no such fear at the moment; however I do not know how I will feel as death draws closer. Hopefully I will fortify my mind yet further, in coming months and years, with Gurbani, and maybe some selected extracts from Buddhist technical texts. With this knowledge I hope to avoid gasping for a bit longer, when I reach my end.

If I need to make a decision about my youngest child, if he becomes very ill, then my wife's thoughts will weigh deeply upon my mind, as will any doctor's opinion about future quality of life and prognosis.

What is good and bad is subjective, so even if children who receive treatment are deemed to do more for society than others who receive no treatment, I don't think it is fair to use this as a reason for saying this justifies the treatment. The reason why and when one enters the human life form, or when one leaves is in the hands of the Lord, and He determines what is good and bad, and He is the cause of all actions during life anyway. He is the architect of destiny.

If I as an individual see my purpose of life to be over, then I am content to not receiving any treatment. If I see there is more to be done, then I may seek treatment. I am not here to make money, to win respect or status. They will not go forward, and I have only my innermost mind to take forward to next birth. At this moment, I feel Gurbani has shown me why I am here, and I have understood why I am here, and I have faith In God. I love Him. I really do, and I dwell on Him as much as possible, and care for little else, including all religions, even though it was Sikh religion that brought me to this state of mind. They are now seen as just another tool provided by the Lord, to take me to Him. He is all that counts, although I will continue with my daily life. I have full expectation that He will not let me down hereafter. He can take me when He wants. I neither need to take forward steps or backward steps from death. It will happen at a time of His choosing.

One does not have to take any steps to make oneself die earlier than one would naturally, but if one is dying then there is no need to intervene. God is the one who looks after all, and God determines life and death. If one dies 5 or 10 or 20 or 50 years earlier than others it is no big deal. God
will still look after all, even afterwards. One harvests what one sows and if I behave, there is absolutely nothing whatsoever to fear from death, and I can actually look forward to it, without jumping towards it.

Sat Sri Akal

 

[Tejwant Singh]

A question that frequently comes up in kids gurmat classes which I am unable to satisfactorily answer is:

If we are supposed to accept Waheguru's hukam and retain the body in the state given to us by Him, then why is medical treatment acceptable?

The tack I often take is to say that:

1) It gives others a chance to do seva.

2) We are remaining within Waheguru's hukam if the treatment is aiming to restore normal bodily function and therefore improve quality of life. If the treatment is for vanity (plastic surgery) or to change the body to give you better function than that normally expericed in nature (eg there is research into developing glasses which give super good vision-beyond that which is normally found in humans) then that is no longer acceptable.

3) Diseases exist because if everyone was in perfect working order we would not appreciate the amazing body given to us by Waheguru to function on this Earth.

One argument for keeping kesh and not having piercings is that is the way that we were made so why distort it. How to explian why these are different from accepting medical problems as requiring intervention when that is the way we were made?

Please do not focus on hair or piercings etc. These are used as examples as that is the question that comes up. Please focus on the question about medical interventions.

Thanks for your feedback,
Jasleen Kaur

Jasleen ji,

Guru fateh.

Thanks for the intriguing question which has led to a wonderful interaction.

Allow me to pitch in my 2 cent worth.

I must admit on the offset that I am sorry to say I do not find any connection between Hukam and medical treatment.

Sikh means a learner, a seeker, a student, a problem solver, a person who can turn the stumbling blocks into stepping stones.

Hukam is both an acceptance and a challenge. Hukam is the first and the last word; however there is a span between the two to be filled by us. Now, the question arises what tools to use to fill in this span.

The latest example is in the recent events in Copiapo (pot of gold), Chile. There were 35 miners in total. As soon as two of them left, the wall collapsed and the 33 got stuck. They had rations for 2 days which they extended to 17 days by eating half a spoon of tuna daily till the small hole was drilled and the outer world who had thought all had been dead came to the realisation that all were found alive. It was all Hukam. Hukam is not the acceptance of things in a passive manner but being proactive about things.

Finding solutions to the problems faced is also Hukam. Hukam is not about giving up but about moving forward after its acceptance.

Hukam has allowed the research in all possible fields including the medical field. Soon, the first person with the spinal cord injury will be able to benefit from the embryonic stem cells research.

We are very fortunate to have Sri Guru Granth Sahib, our only Guru, our Tool Box, our only GPS which guides us and offers us the tools to excel in any and every field we may choose. This is the DNA of Sikhi. This is the Hukam.

Regards

Tejwant Singh

 

[spnadmin]

Tejwant Singh ji

I am always humbled by these thoughts

Hukum is both an acceptance and a challenge. Hukum is the first and the last word; however there is a span between the two to be filled by us. Now, the question arises what tools to use to fill in this span.

...
Finding solutions to the problems faced is also Hukam. Hukam is not about giving up but about moving forward after its acceptance.

Hukam has allowed the research in all possible fields including the medical field. Soon, the first person with the spinal cord injury will be able to benefit from the embryonic stem cells research.

We are very fortunate to have Sri Guru Granth Sahib, our only Guru, our Tool Box, our only GPS which guides us and offers us the tools to excel in any and every field we may choose. This is the DNA of Sikhi. This is the Hukam.

Regards

Tejwant Singh

I think this is a good example from the field of medicine. Two generations ago among Italian Americans, to be blind was considered a "disgrazia" -- which does not mean shame but means literally a "fall from grace." Blindness was to be endured because it fell upon an individual according to the will of God. Certainly people sought medical treatment, but at the end of the day the notion of a sort of curse always hung about the blind person and his family. Here is a Singh with a different "view" of things, a different "vision." There are dozens of Singhs and Kaurs who "see" things this way.

Restoring eyesight his vision​

Sanjay Bumbroo talks to Mr Anup Singh Jubbal, an NRI, who plans to open a charitable eye hospital to help the needy
Tribune News Service

AMRITSAR: Mr Anup Singh Jubbal has been doing yeoman’s service to people suffering from cataract or other eye disorders by holding eye camps in the border districts of Amritsar and Tarn Taran for some time now.

Mr Jubbal, president, Canadian Eyesight International, a charitable organisation looking to provide eyesight to people in India, has been raising funds in Surrey, Canada, for setting up a state-of-the-art Sri Hargobind Sahib Mata Sulakhni Eye Hospital at Chabba in Tarn Taran.

He plans to build a hospital that would not only provide cataract surgeries free of cost and conduct eye clinics but also impart education and training to youths.

Lamenting on the lack of support from the government, Mr Jubbal, while talking with The Tribune, said he had so far not received any financial or other aid from the state or the Central governments. But if the government wanted to help them, he would welcome the move, as it would give a philip to the project.

He said a 24,000 sq ft building was recently donated by a local charitable organisation for the setting up of the project.

He was now planning to set up a permanent hospital and preventable blindness centre there.

Mr Jubbal, who has studied up to Class 12, had migrated to Canada in 1968.

In the beginning, he had to work very hard but the lady luck soon smiled at him and he set up a real estate business there.

He had to suffer losses in the business but that did not deter him from doing hard work again and getting back to his feet.

He said ups and downs in the life taught him that money could provide everything except peace of mind.

“This hospital is crucial and we need the support of the community,” said Mr Jubbal, who is also member of the Rotary Club Surrey-Guildford.

He said though eye surgery cost just Rs 1,750, it was beyond the reach of a majority of people in India, especially those living in villages.

He said blindness was 80 per cent preventable with good nutrition, sanitation, medicine or surgery.

Honoured by Prime Minister and Governor in the past for his services, Mr Jubbal said he was being well supported by his wife, Sarup Kaur Jubbal, in his cause.

He said the Project Eyesight India, under the auspices of Eyesight International in cooperation with local doctors, has been conducting eye clinics and cataract surgeries in India since 1989.

He said cataract was the result of darkening of the eye’s lens that could be caused by the rubella virus, trauma to the eye and ageing.

With surgery, impaired vision could be rectified by a lens implant, he added.

He said he had held several eye check-up camps in Gujarat, Uttar Pradesh, Madhya Pradesh, Maharashtra and Haryana with the support of rotary clubs of Canada and India.

So far they had restored the eyesight or performed surgery on around 43,000 persons and treated thousands more for avoidable blindness.

An eye camp was recently held in Gurdwara Parau at Fatehabad, near Goindwal Sahib, where surgeries were performed on people suffering from cataract and medicines distributed free of cost.

Mr Jubbal said people in Surrey could come to India and participate in eye clinics and get their families to attend these as well.

He said the organisation would spread the word in surrounding villages within a 10-mile radius and everyone, regardless of their age, ethnicity or religion, could attend these camps.

He added that they had also been holding free eye clinics in British Columbia. As eye examination was no longer free under the medical services plan there, people were now showing interest in getting their eyesight checked and even make donations to the hospital in order to help bring sight to countless individuals.

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2006/20061223/aplus1.htm

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

TEJWANT SINGH JI,
DIVINE GREETINGS,
You have rihgtly described the character of HUKAMu and your views are execellent example of how HUKAMu should be accepted in actual life,
Really nice thoughts,
With best wishes,
Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[gurbanicd]

Page441 Line 19 Raag Aasaa: Guru Amar Das

ਹੁਕਮੁ ਤੇਰਾ ਖਰਾ ਭਾਰਾ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਕਿਸੈ ਬੁਝਾਏ ॥

hukam thaeraa kharaa bhaaraa guramukh kisai bujhaaeae ||
The Command of Your Will is very strict; how rare is the Gurmukh who understands.

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

With reference to the topic under discussion a freind of mine got my attention to a
point of effect of Gurbaani in treatment of deceases.a very important conclusion which I would like to share thatGurbaani has effect on our thought process and in that sense effects our mind response to our thoughrt process.Gurbaani positively must have healing effect on deceases arising fron our improper alignment of our thought process but what about deceases arising from out sources such as epidemic inflictions?
Probably here comes the role of HUKAMu
Prakash.S.bagga

 

[spnadmin]

A number of messages have been deleted. Either the complete shabad was ot posted or there was a reply to a post with a missing shabad.

Reason: All forum members must post a complete shabad with Gurmukhi and English, along with an explanation, and Ang number. Everyone involved has been warned several times in other threads. This is a forum rule. Please abide by it. Thank you.

 

[findingmyway]

Spnadmin ji,
Your earlier post has just inspired another thought. The biggest cause of blindness in the world is people not having access to glasses when they are needed. Although it is not strictly medical treatment, it is an intervention. For those people advocating abstinence from medical treatment, would this intervention be considered wrong too? I guess it's a slippery slope with no clear boundaries! Then again most of us live in shades of grey!

 

[spnadmin]

Thanks findinmyway ji

I think an even grayer area would be treatment for glaucoma. Untreated it leads to blindness, The interventions are a mix of medication, corrective lenses, and life-style adjustments. Cataracts is another areas. Why go blind when surgery and corrective lenses can help? Why not be able to read Sri Guru Granth Sahib at the end of life? Why have to depend on someone to read it to you ?

 

[spnadmin]

Usually we try to give new members, and those posting for the first time, extra latitude when TOS are not observed.

Again however I repeat an entire shabad must be posted, with Ang number, in English and Gurmukhi.

In addition, sarcasm and rebuke was unnecessary. So let's give it another try. Thank you.

 

[spnadmin]

whatcomesafterfour ji

Please be advised that the entire moderation team has been asked to keep an eye on your entries as possible spam.

I have myself noted that you are a master of the short, pithy remark that is only tangentially related to thread content.

Usually we allow some latitude for new members, and allow some problem posts to go forward until new members are feeling more confident with posting and participation. However in your case, you have combined mockery with irrelevance in nearly every thread where you have posted. And particularly in your responses to Gyani ji and to me.

P/S iRe: your witty example of a situation where I posted only one line of shabad in violation of forum rules is an excellent example of why you need to be more careful if you wish to continue as a participating member. You know full well that the single vaar was an example posted by another member, and was part of my that one-liners not be used. Do not confuse patience with anything other than patience.

You are officially warned.