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How to change one's destiny

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by singhbj, Jul 27, 2008.

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  1. singhbj

    singhbj
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    Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
    Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

    Guru Sahib Ji & destiny

    One summer when Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj was travelling, he reached a garden where he camped for the day. It so happened that the king's pir (spiritual advisor), was also camping at the same place.

    Thus the Pir had a chance to Satguru Ji. The pir called on Maharaj, who seated him with due courtesy by his side. There was a town nearby where a number of Sikhs of Guru Ji lived. When they heard of Maharaj's arrival at the garden, they all flocked to see the king of kings and the saint of saints with offerings of clothes, arms and money, besides food. The offerings were formally dedicated to Guru Ji by his attendants, who also prayed in their behalf for his blessings, success in temporal pursuits, protection from evil, and the boon of Naam.

    The pir watched the proceedings for the whole day, and then put this question to Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji, "In our scriptures it is said that whatever is destined, is bound to happen. Something else can happen, only if what has been done previously is wrong. Since what has been done, cannot be wrong, there is no scope for anything else happening. So, when the Sikhs pray before you for success in their endeavours, what do they pray for, since nothing else can happen except what is destined?"

    After hearing the pir's question Maharaj took out his seal. He applied ink to the seal and stamped it on a piece of paper.

    "Pir ji, this is the answer to your question," replied Guru Ji. "Kindly explain this to me," said the pir.

    "The letters on the seal were already there. These have not been written now. But the writer knew that when the seal bows its head to touch the paper, the reverse letters will become straight and get stamped on it. Similarly, the Creator has made this provision in one's destiny, so that when one appear before the Guru in humility and performs service, his adverse destiny is corrected. All his problems are solved. This reversal is as per destiny, and not otherwise. Thus, whatever has been said in your scriptures is correct. Nothing less and nothing more." At this answer the pir was very happy.

    Bhull chuk maaf !

    Source: Tuhi Tuhi Tera Tera: 11/01/2005 - 12/01/2005

    Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
    Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
     
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  3. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    that is quite a carrot, what about just performing service for the hell of it?
     
  4. chazSingh

    chazSingh Ireland
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    i currently design and maintain a few websites for local companies...if they want anything changing...only i hold the power to do so. or i can pass that power onto someone else to apply those changes...

    i guess everything has some sort of path \ structure...is god\creation any different?

    of course we can ask for a new job, a new car, passing our exams from Guru Ji...as per our own actions we will only receive what we have sowed in the past. but when we've had enough of just going around in circles in creation...same old...work rest and play...only Guru Ji has the power to guide us towards the truth....and the universe...waheguru will conspire to help us awaken to that truth...

    happens to us all eventually...my nephews are often immersed in their computer games...but at some point they get bored and realize their house has a front door and a whole world to explore...

    that is all we're doing....we can keep aspiring to, asking wahegurus help to get a new car, job etc in the game...but in the end, we're still locked into the Game as a result of those unfulfilled desires...

    or we can listen to what waheguru is saying...that there is a hell of a lot more to this whole shebang than we currently think and know of...if interested, guaranteed he will allow us to know of the complete truth...

    the Truman Show...
     
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  5. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    this is an awful comparison, you hold no power at all, just access to certain passwords, I am sure a third rate hacker would have little problem taking away your power.

    I have no idea, I am just a puny human being, I have no idea how the structure of God operates, and I am deeply wary of anyone who says they know.

    why would we do that? this seems very alien to me, it smacks of deity worship, is the God that we believe in as Sikhs some sort of Santa figure who only exists to grant our irrelevant desires?

    bit like being a good child all year for Christmas? Will Santa know we have been good?

    and then what?

    look around you Chazji, is it not enough?
     
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  6. chazSingh

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    its not an awful example..yes a hacker can get into my website...but why would my client ask a hacker to change his website when i can do it for him? you're confusing me dude...lol
    if i said only God can change ones destiny....can you find a hacker to hack into his creation? No...so why mention a hacker in the comparison? :)

    what i'm trying to say is...if you want something to change in creation...naturally...you find the creator and ask.


    thats fine...be weary....
    but there are those that believe that SGGS Ji is telling us that very fact...and there are those that are following what it says and seeing it with their own eyes (physical and spiritual eyes)

    i'm not saying we should ask for worldly things...i'm saying that people do...
    if you ask for worldly things...then of course your mind will remain in wanting to achieve those worldly things...you'll either achieve those things...or they remain unfulfilled...

    or you could just want to know the truth of life...you may come to know in the end that what we see and hear and touch is all that there is....or you may come to know that there is way more...

    some of the greatest explorers too that jump into the unknown...took that leap of faith...

    there are rules to everything....the main one as described in SGGS ji is ... as you sow shall you reap...
    now...you decide whether you want to do good for a reward...or if you want to do good because your heart tells you its the right thing to do regardless of reward...

    i'm pretty sure your intention behind the action is part of the reward...if you do good because you want something in return then it may not actually reap good..





    nope, its not enough....you want to know why...
    because no matter what i do in my life...or where i go..or what i see...i still feel like there is something missing...the things i do are not fulfilling me. buying a car..a new house...going on various holidays...even charity work...something is still missing...

    now Guru Ji is telling me there is something more to this whole creation...and Guru Ji is wanting me to find out...to seek it...to search for it...and it's pretty crazy when you realize that Guru Ji is telling you the truth...:)

    its like playing a computer game and someone at school tells you there is a bonus level...
    you may be content with just playing the levels you have access to...and you may not even believe there is a bonus level...
    but some people may just try and find it....and you never know...it may actually exist :)
     
  7. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    your suggesting one can hack into Creator? unauthorised entry?

    maybe he has fallen out with you! happens all the time.

    err your arguing my point, I appreciate the gesture, but I'm doing ok on my own
    do you? I never have, I tend to just get on and do it myself, Creator created me, gave me a brain, is enough.

    I am, weary of being wary, but what other way is there when everyone professes to know the answers, but no one seems able to answer simple questions.

    I am saying we should not ask for anything, wordly or otherwise, well that's how I live anyway.

    not much then

    you live your life how you wish, that is your right, but I don't live on maybe's
    they did that to further the knowledge of mankind, yours is slightly more selfish

    there are no rules, only facts, your saying that the main theme of the SGGS is karma?

    The last time I looked in the mirror, I did not see a Seal looking back at me, I make my own rewards, I don't clap for fish.

    My action is normally weary and an act of responsibility, as a member of creation, not with love in my heart and a smile on my face, I just get on with what needs to be done, and then go, the departure is the best bit..

    contentment and acceptance is what you are missing
    strangely Guruji is telling me that this is it, that I am his ambassador, that I represent him, that I just get on with it, and enjoy the journey and then die.

    You will die not knowing the truth, as it is unable to be known and understood by mere mortals like you and me, that makes me sad, I hope are not on your deathbed gazing at the beauty of Creation that you shunned for your search

    and then my friend, the nature of the game is to buy another game, and play that, I think you will never finish this game, I think it will trap you forever, and when the end comes, you will wish you had lived
     
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  8. chazSingh

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    that's not what i said...read again...confused.com :)



    i don;t ask for anything to change other than for Waheguru to inspire me to seek the truth...afterall He is in our hearts...as per SGGS ji...and proved correct if you seek.

    don't listen to them...find it yourself...then you'll know for sure...and then inspire others to also seek it..
    otherwise continue as you are...quite simple..

    what simple questions do you have?

    i guess it noble to seek the truth...if you think what you see hear and touch is not the whole truth...
    if you think it is the whole truth, then continue as you are...

    sometimes you discover things by accident....i.e. apple falls on your head...
    otherwise...discoveries are made initially with a ...'maybe'...it makes us seek distant lands...planets...cures...creatures...etc etc

    is that so crazy?

    seems selfish...the results though affect everyone around me...
    if i see god within me...maybe genuinely i will see god in everyone and everything else...rather than just saying it,

    call it whatever you want...it's not the main theme..its just telling you a rule of the show...you make your own destiny...as you sow shall you reap...

    no one is asking you to ask for anything...neither is Guru ji...lol
    but wanting to know the truth...well don;t we all want to know the truth when a murder is committed, when an event happens, when someone lies to you...knowing the truth is part of life...hence why we look up to the stars and want to know whey this whole thing is here..




    in my material existence...i feel quite content...
    i just one day had a feeling this (life) was not all it....thankfully my feeling was proved correct...i'm glad i looked deeper, now my lifeand feelings towards it have changed big time...for the better

    i never quite liked thinking...'i just die' ... again thankfully i didnt accept that...and seeked answers...got the answers to that also....you just have to seek...

    the problem is you think you are mortal...yes your body is....but you aren't....you limit yourself to that...its great fun finding this all out....it blew my mind away when it came to me..

    you see...our ego has made us think...this is it...we are just this little man or woman...and have no other possibilities...but the possibilities are endless....just like waheguru....we are made of the same stuff...droplets of water from the ocean..


    you are maybe correct...there are so many bonus levels...
    its just great to know for sure now...that i won't ever die...that i am part of something truly spectacular, that everything i've been through and still going through ultimately leads me to this realization..
    will do with you also...maybe by a apple hitting your head scenario...or you'll seek it...in truth you are seeking it...we all are...its the flow of the ocean...the hukam...waheguru learning about Himself through himself...
     
  9. Inderjeet Kaur

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    This is my take on fate and destiny.

    [​IMG]


    I admit, I do not call in the One on this. My reason is simple. I believe in using what I have, what I have been given and what I have developed first, before I ask for the Creator to do it for me. I ask my Creator for things like courage, strength and endurance, ther things I need to achieve my destiny.
     
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  10. Harry Haller

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    do you happen to know anyone personally who has found this truth?
    if not, do you know of anyone who has found this truth?

    I don't

    I am

    how? how can you know anything for sure?

    why would you do that? surely anyone who wishes to seek it will, it is human nature that people will do what they wish when they want, surely it would be better to inspire everyone and anyone regardless?
    2 are above, if you could kindly answer them I would be grateful, lets run with that for starters, then we can move on to the more heavy stuff, although, I must caution you that answers need to be succinct and straightforward, not some half rate PR drivel.

    is this why you do it, to be noble?

    ahhh, you see like you, I do not think this is the whole truth either, however, the difference is, you care, I don't.

    all these discoveries helped mankind, how is your discovery of the truth going to help mankind?

    Given that any discovery is going to be mentally exclusive to you, how can you prove it? You may say you do not care to prove it, it is enough that you know, but again, who does it help?

    I already see god in everyone and everything else rather than just saying it, its not that hard, I do not struggle with it, why do you?

    well I disagree with your rule of the show, your saying karma is big, I am saying it is irrelevant and not even the backing singer never mind the show.

    ok important question coming up, is that not a contradiction? you often say that our destinies are held by god, now your saying its held by us, which is it?

    oh? I thought he wanted my head, I thought that was a central facet of Sikhism, your saying it is not, and that Guruji now does not want my head? which is it?

    err no, are you one of those people that slow down for traffic accidents? maybe you want to know the truth about everything, good luck with that one, sounds more like being nosy
    People lie to me all the time... perception makes it easy to know when.
    why would you look up to the stars? is that an abrahamic heaven thing?
    how has it affected you? I see no huge change in your writing

    could you explain how you got these answers? did someone physically talk to you? was it a mental thing? a message in a bottle?

    can you explain this? your telling me that something blew your mind away when you realised that you were immortal, can you describe this for me please? How did you realise this? was it another mental thing? can I assume that all these relevations are god talking directly to you that you are unable to share with us?

    your talking with authority here, where does this authority come from? have you done some sort of 2 year course that gives you this authority?
    again, what authority enables you make these statements?
    that's all you want? to know that you won't ever die? sounds a bit childish to me.
    this does not make sense, I don't mind reading posts that are put together like a very bad Gyani doing a very bad katha, but I do expect better of someone like you, please explain "waheguru learning about Himself through himself"

    there you go, some simple questions for you
     
  11. Jag279

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    How to change destiny?
    One line answer - kar kar kar na (used 3 times for thoughts words and actions) likh lae jaye...aapay beej aapay hi khaye.

    How does Goes God know who is going to read this message of mine and may be change his life in some manner?
    Because he is the one writing(or wrote; because he is not bound by time, a dimension) the story of creation.
     
  12. Ishna

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    Ji, can you please translate for me?

    Thank you
     
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  13. Ambarsaria

    Ambarsaria Canada
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    Most sakhis (stories/fables) do not comply with Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. So be careful to create links between the sakhis and Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji.

    When you pose the question how to change destiny, you are assuming that there is destiny. There is no destiny. You live the moment, the time that does not stop and per the rules of creation. You will leave a trail of your living but you do not deterministically create it and none is preordained. You can definitely create goals for your living and make an effort to achieve but nothing is guaranteed or 100% ensured.

    Sat Sri Akal.
     
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  14. Ishna

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    It would help to learn how "destiny" is understood in Indian philosophies, what words and phrases are used to allude to it, and then how that relates back to Gurbani. Because the English translations throw the word "destiny" around like lollies, but there appears to be lack of a precise term for it in the Gurmukhi, so the translators appear to be interpreting a phrase to mean "destiny". But is "destiny" the right word?

    At a short glance, Gurbani does mention a lot about that which is 'written on your forehead', or 'written' in general. I don't really know what it means, yet.
     
  15. Jag279

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    Kar kar kar (performing repeated actions through thoughts, words and actions) we program specific meanings into our mind. They act as seeds which thus give us corresponding fruits.
     
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  16. Jag279

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    There is nothing at all in this Universe that Waheguru needs to experience. Thus our destiny is actually decided only by our perceived meanings which thus demand specific experiences and bring them to us.

    If we can change the meanings, we can also change the destiny.

    This doesn't mean that Waheguru has no power over this. But our power is through his mercy only. The change although seems a deviation from path of destiny but is actually already in the divine plan.
     
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  17. Ambarsaria

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    Ishna ji I hope the following helps;

    http://www.shabdkosh.com/pa/translate?e=Destiny&l=pa

    Destiny - meaning in Punjabi
    Pronunciation of Destiny
    ਡੇਸ੍ਟਨੀ
    Meanings of Destiny in Punjabi
    [Hide Transliteration]
    noun
    1. ਹੋਣੀ [hōṇī]
    2. ਲੇਖ (m) [lēkha]
    3. ਭਾਗ (m) [bhāga]
    4. ਕਿਸਮਤ (f) [kisamata]
    5. ਕਰਮ (m) [karama]
    6. ਹੋਣੀ (f) [hōṇī]
    7. ਮੁਕੱਦਰ (m) [mukadara]
    8. ਨਸੀਬ (m) [nasība]
    9. ਬਰਾਤ (f) [barāta]
    10. ਭਾਣਾ (m) [bhāṇā]
    11. ਤਕਦੀਰ (f) [takadīra]
    adjective
    1. ਭਾਵੀ [bhāvī]
    adverb
    1. ਭਾਣੇ [bhāṇē]
    ___________________________
    ਹੋਣੀ - meaning in English
    Pronunciation of ਹੋਣੀ
    hōṇī
    Meanings of ਹੋਣੀ in English
    noun
    1. fate (f)
    2. destiny (f)
    3. predestination (f)
    4. appointed lot (f)
    5. Destiny
    I done one Punjabi to English using the same Dictionary above. You can search further and I have done what I would consider the common meaning of Destiny in Punjabi as follows:

    ਤਕਦੀਰ - meaning in English

    Pronunciation of ਤਕਦੀਰ
    takadīra
    Meanings of ਤਕਦੀਰ in English
    noun
    1. fate (f)
    2. destiny (f)
    3. luck (f)
    4. lot (f)
    5. stars (f)
    Take care,

    Sat Sri Akal.
     
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  18. Ishna

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    Thank you @Ambarsaria Ji

    When I get home from work, I'll see if these words (or a variant of them) appears in the Gurbani - although it will be challenging due to the languages used.

    More commonly in Gurbani, when regard to destiny, we read about things being written, often on one's forehead. What is this expression all about?
     
  19. Ambarsaria

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    From what I recall there are sayings like that. For example, I am not totally sure perhaps someone correct it if I am wrong;

    "Mathey di lakir kadi nahin mitdi/The line on your forehead cannot be erased".

    I believe the reference here is the cultural belief of the pre-ordained or fate being permanently ascribed on our foreheads. Guru ji may have used it as a way to teach those who believed in such and equally to describe that we do not control everything.

    Just as Sikhs do not have relationship to lines on our hands/palmistry, the lines on the forehead should be treated the same way. Just my two cents.

    Sat Sri Akal.

    PS: We know Botox has changed all kinds of things in terms of lines on people's faces.
     
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    #18 Ambarsaria, Jan 11, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2016
  20. Ishna

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    Last few days I've been contemplating deeply on the recurring theme of "likh" in Gurbani. One of my favourite shabads to contemplate at the moment is along the lines of making your body the paper, and the mind the pen. And so many thoughts about the "ever flowing pen of Akaal Sahib".
     
  21. Ishna

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