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How To Change One's Destiny

chazSingh

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do you happen to know anyone personally who has found this truth?
if not, do you know of anyone who has found this truth?



I don't


I am


how? how can you know anything for sure?


why would you do that? surely anyone who wishes to seek it will, it is human nature that people will do what they wish when they want, surely it would be better to inspire everyone and anyone regardless?


2 are above, if you could kindly answer them I would be grateful, lets run with that for starters, then we can move on to the more heavy stuff, although, I must caution you that answers need to be succinct and straightforward, not some half rate PR drivel.


is this why you do it, to be noble?



ahhh, you see like you, I do not think this is the whole truth either, however, the difference is, you care, I don't.


all these discoveries helped mankind, how is your discovery of the truth going to help mankind?

Given that any discovery is going to be mentally exclusive to you, how can you prove it? You may say you do not care to prove it, it is enough that you know, but again, who does it help?



I already see god in everyone and everything else rather than just saying it, its not that hard, I do not struggle with it, why do you?



well I disagree with your rule of the show, your saying karma is big, I am saying it is irrelevant and not even the backing singer never mind the show.


ok important question coming up, is that not a contradiction? you often say that our destinies are held by god, now your saying its held by us, which is it?


oh? I thought he wanted my head, I thought that was a central facet of Sikhism, your saying it is not, and that Guruji now does not want my head? which is it?


err no, are you one of those people that slow down for traffic accidents? maybe you want to know the truth about everything, good luck with that one, sounds more like being nosy


People lie to me all the time... perception makes it easy to know when.
why would you look up to the stars? is that an abrahamic heaven thing?


how has it affected you? I see no huge change in your writing



could you explain how you got these answers? did someone physically talk to you? was it a mental thing? a message in a bottle?



can you explain this? your telling me that something blew your mind away when you realised that you were immortal, can you describe this for me please? How did you realise this? was it another mental thing? can I assume that all these relevations are god talking directly to you that you are unable to share with us?


your talking with authority here, where does this authority come from? have you done some sort of 2 year course that gives you this authority?

again, what authority enables you make these statements?

that's all you want? to know that you won't ever die? sounds a bit childish to me.


this does not make sense, I don't mind reading posts that are put together like a very bad Gyani doing a very bad katha, but I do expect better of someone like you, please explain "waheguru learning about Himself through himself"

there you go, some simple questions for you

i know many people that are experiencing the truth...or elements of it, as it seems to be vast, infinite...

inspiration is a normal part of life...happens in all walks of life...it can be very positive..

just as you sit on a rollercoaster and have a new experience...you're experience of the world within will take place in the same way...i.e. you are fully conscious through the whole thing...alive and kicking.,
no drug like experiences...no trance like states...your conscious...

God experiencing Himself through his creation...
I say that because SGGS Ji says all there is only 'God'....so who am i...who are you....what is the tree in my garden...the water in the sea...the wind that flows past me...the sun that shines...the shabad that vibrates within?
its all waheguru...so what is having the experience of life through all these creatures?

Ego was designed by waheguru to make 'one' (himself) appear as many...but there is really only one..Waheguru..
Ego is so powerful...that when the perceived seperated state appears...the 'many' question the existence of the 'one' ... how crazy is that? lol....where the truth is ..there is only one...
 

chazSingh

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Feb 20, 2012
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There is nothing at all in this Universe that Waheguru needs to experience. Thus our destiny is actually decided only by our perceived meanings which thus demand specific experiences and bring them to us.

If we can change the meanings, we can also change the destiny.

This doesn't mean that Waheguru has no power over this. But our power is through his mercy only. The change although seems a deviation from path of destiny but is actually already in the divine plan.

this is the amazing thing...we think destiny is being changed...but the new path was always in the original path \ plan for us all along... :)
 

Harry Haller

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i know many people that are experiencing the truth...or elements of it, as it seems to be vast, infinite...

inspiration is a normal part of life...happens in all walks of life...it can be very positive..

just as you sit on a rollercoaster and have a new experience...you're experience of the world within will take place in the same way...i.e. you are fully conscious through the whole thing...alive and kicking.,
no drug like experiences...no trance like states...your conscious...

God experiencing Himself through his creation...
I say that because SGGS Ji says all there is only 'God'....so who am i...who are you....what is the tree in my garden...the water in the sea...the wind that flows past me...the sun that shines...the shabad that vibrates within?
its all waheguru...so what is having the experience of life through all these creatures?

Ego was designed by waheguru to make 'one' (himself) appear as many...but there is really only one..Waheguru..
Ego is so powerful...that when the perceived seperated state appears...the 'many' question the existence of the 'one' ... how crazy is that? lol....where the truth is ..there is only one...

do you remember the bit about simple questions, I will repeat it if you wish,

  1. do you happen to know anyone personally who has found this truth?
    if not, do you know of anyone who has found this truth?
any chance of a simple answer, yes or no will suffice
 

chazSingh

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Feb 20, 2012
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do you remember the bit about simple questions, I will repeat it if you wish,

  1. do you happen to know anyone personally who has found this truth?
    if not, do you know of anyone who has found this truth?
any chance of a simple answer, yes or no will suffice

yes.
 

Harry Haller

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excellent, we will take baby steps, now is it the first statement, ie, do you know them personally, or is it the second?
 

chazSingh

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Feb 20, 2012
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excellent, we will take baby steps, now is it the first statement, ie, do you know them personally, or is it the second?

there are some i know personally.....my own brother...we both try our utmost to earn our money truthfully...to share with others and to naam jap. Its great to have someone close to discuss and share experiences, positives, negatives, difficulties with.

some are close friends that i have known for years.

others are currently on this forum...and some who have left.

and last but not least, and the most important...my Guru Ji...with whom i no longer have any doubts with ... SGGS JI


in case that answer is too long for you...

Yes, some personally and others not so personally...
 

Harry Haller

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there are some i know personally.....my own brother...we both try our utmost to earn our money truthfully...to share with others and to naam jap. Its great to have someone close to discuss and share experiences, positives, negatives, difficulties with.

some are close friends that i have known for years.

others are currently on this forum...and some who have left.

and last but not least, and the most important...my Guru Ji...with whom i no longer have any doubts with ... SGGS JI


in case that answer is too long for you...

Yes, some personally and others not so personally...

so just so I can get this right in my head, all these people have found the ultimate truth that you yourself are seeking for? Their journey is over, they are enlightened?
 

chazSingh

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so just so I can get this right in my head, all these people have found the ultimate truth that you yourself are seeking for? Their journey is over, they are enlightened?

if i told you that last night Roberto Firmino Scored a Goal for Liverpool FC...is that the truth? yes it is...

but it is only part of the truth....the full truth is he scored 2 goals...and so did another player....
in fact {censored}nal scored 3 as well...

all these are truths...

i've never asked anyone i know if they know the complete truth as i get the feeling the complete truth is so vast and infinite...its not something you can define, label or say "yes, i know it all"...

but many people i know, know that consciousness goes on past physcial death....that shabad can be heard within, that there are endless creations beyond creations...that time and distance hold no barriers, that there are infinite possibilities to everything....that the physcial is only one dimension that we are part of...we have access to all.

sounds crazy,,,,i don;t even know how to write these kinds of things down...
if you believe in this and want to know yourself first hand...thats great...
if not, thats great also...
good luck in whatever direction you feel you want to go my friend

God Bless
 

Harry Haller

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nope, its not enough....you want to know why...
because no matter what i do in my life...or where i go..or what i see...i still feel like there is something missing...the things i do are not fulfilling me. buying a car..a new house...going on various holidays...even charity work...something is still missing...

now Guru Ji is telling me there is something more to this whole creation...and Guru Ji is wanting me to find out...to seek it...to search for it...

i've never asked anyone i know if they know the complete truth as i get the feeling the complete truth is so vast and infinite...its not something you can define, label or say "yes, i know it all"...
do you remember the bit about simple questions, I will repeat it if you wish,

  1. do you happen to know anyone personally who has found this truth?
    if not, do you know of anyone who has found this truth?
any chance of a simple answer, yes or no will suffice

you said yes, my friend, now, it seems to me you are a little confused, allow me to put my point forward again, your looking for something that to date, no one else has found, unless you can claim otherwise
 

chazSingh

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Feb 20, 2012
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you said yes, my friend, now, it seems to me you are a little confused, allow me to put my point forward again, your looking for something that to date, no one else has found, unless you can claim otherwise

its ok to be confused at something that Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji said was as hard as 'steel' to describe.

i have no problems with coming across as being confused

looking for something that no one else has found to date? well if it hasn't struck you yet...i believed that the Guru Ji's found it or were led to it...i believe the bhagats, sants, pure khalsas who's shabads were included in SGGS Ji had found it, or were led to it...

and in my short experience so far, i can only say that i no longer just believe anymore...i 'know' they did because many things they say are coming true.

A truth is that after physical death we do not die....i know many that have come to know this through experience whilst still being alive.

A Truth is that there are creations upon creations...i know many that have come to know this through experience whilst still being alive.

a truth is that you can come to know many truths through living honestly, sharing your earnings and doing naam jap...i know many including myself that have come to know some truths through this

A truth is that all is in Waheguru's control...i know this, and others know this because none of us can re-create any experiences of some of these truths with our own (minds) exertions...we pay attention...and Guru Ji does the rest if it so pleases Guru Ji.

the deeper you look, the more it seems there is to find...the ocean of the mind and beyond...endless it seems

i'm a confused person...but i couldnt care less...is there any logic in love..?


god bless my good friend
 
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Harry Haller

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its ok to be confused at something that Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji said was as hard as 'steel' to describe.
but confused? unsure maybe, but confused?

looking for something that no one else has found to date? well if it hasn't struck you yet...i believed that the Guru Ji's found it or were led to it...i believe the bhagats, sants, pure khalsas who's shabads were included in SGGS Ji had found it, or were led to it...

it, I do not think this it exists, I think all you have are periods of self understanding, which get longer and longer.

and in my short experience so far, i can only say that i no longer just believe anymore...i 'know' they did because many things they say are coming true.
self fulfilling prophecy?

A truth is that after physical death we do not die....i know many that have come to know this through experience whilst still being alive.

this is not a truth because it cannot be proven, gravity can be proven in a few moments, life after death cannot.

A Truth is that there are creations upon creations...i know many that have come to know this through experience whilst still being alive.

you mean different worlds, again, it cannot be proven, I could say a truth is that my best friend is a smurf, but unless I show you the smurf, its not a truth!

a truth is that you can come to know many truths through living honestly, sharing your earnings and doing naam jap...i know many including myself that have come to know some truths through this

err again, this not a truth, it cannot be proven

A truth is that all is in Waheguru's control...i know this, and others know this because none of us can re-create any experiences of some of these truths with our own (minds) exertions...we pay attention...and Guru Ji does the rest if it so pleases Guru Ji.

again this is not a truth, there is much debate as to whether we are living pre destined lives, or we are living under our own control, if all is under Waheguru's control then why does the phrase manmukh exist?
the deeper you look, the more it seems there is to find...the ocean of the mind and beyond...endless it seems

it is endless, but circular not linear.

i'm a confused person...but i couldnt care less...is there any logic in love..?

no, which is why I avoid it like the plague
god bless my good friend
and you too!
 

chazSingh

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Feb 20, 2012
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but confused? unsure maybe, but confused?

confusion happens because i'm dealing with something that cannot be understood completely...or put into words..or proved by myself to someone else...excuse me for being a little confused when trying to describe Waheguru lol...


it, I do not think this it exists, I think all you have are periods of self understanding, which get longer and longer.

what are you saying here...it doesn't mean anything...its just words...so you think i'm just having moments of self understanding, which get longer and longer...what is this? realization, self understanding, awakening...whatever the word used...something happens..and i get my proof...call it what you like :) its all words until you're there, experiencing it first hand

this is not a truth because it cannot be proven, gravity can be proven in a few moments, life after death cannot.

to prove something is being able to show it or guide someone else to the same experience.

its proven to me...and i'm telling you if you want proof do what SGGS Ji says and you'll get your proof.

i can't prove that the apple i ate was sour...i have to ask you to also eat it :)

you mean different worlds, again, it cannot be proven, I could say a truth is that my best friend is a smurf, but unless I show you the smurf, its not a truth!


why are you so interested in being able to prove it...is it not enough for you to obtain the proof for yourself?

you're like a person that wants everyone to tell you what a certain holiday destination is like...when the best experience would be...pack you bags and get on a flight dude..lol

SGGS Ji tells you where to by the bag...ticket...boarding zone, time of arrival at destination etc etc...

on the question of other worlds...it can be proved to you...if waheguru shows it to you...if you have the right intentions...

err again, this not a truth, it cannot be proven

oh dear oh dear

again this is not a truth, there is much debate as to whether we are living pre destined lives, or we are living under our own control, if all is under Waheguru's control then why does the phrase manmukh exist?

waheguru Will, waheguru flow...involves true selfless love as the base current...if we act in this 'naturally' we are vibrating at the same frequency. the Ego (which gives us this individualized experience) tends to bring anger, attachment, greed, lust into the picture...manmuck is one who follows such thoughts and turns them into actions which thus have their negative effects....gurmuck follows the heart more often than not, whilst fighting to rid the effects of the negative traits within them)

Waheguru is in control because all the above happens in His rules...as you sow shall you reap...go with the flow of current, love, compassion, forgiveness, patience, perserverence etc etc and you glide a lot easier...or flap your arms around in the current with negative traits and cause waves and ripples and tsunami's...physically manifested or mentally manifested...

this is how i see it at the present moment...
 

Harry Haller

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confusion happens because i'm dealing with something that cannot be understood completely...or put into words..or proved by myself to someone else...excuse me for being a little confused when trying to describe Waheguru lol...

It clearly says in the SGGSji that Waheguru cannot be described, and that anyone who attempts to describe the state of one who has found Waheguru will surely regret it. So why are you asking me to excuse you, when you are clearly in breach of a direct statement?

what are you saying here...it doesn't mean anything...its just words...so you think i'm just having moments of self understanding, which get longer and longer...what is this? realization, self understanding, awakening...whatever the word used...something happens..and i get my proof...call it what you like :) its all words until you're there, experiencing it first hand

So you are not having moments? you have reached understanding 24/7?

to prove something is being able to show it or guide someone else to the same experience.

Its interesting you write this, I agree with the former, its being able to show it, but the latter, 'guide someone else to the same experience' sounds a bit sinister, you can guide someone by drugging them, or bamboozling them, if they are gullible, then guiding someone to see your point of view is not unlike grooming.

its proven to me...and i'm telling you if you want proof do what SGGS Ji says and you'll get your proof.

ok, do which bit of what the SGGSji says? I already do what the SGGSji says to the best of my abilities, which bit do you suggest I embrace?

an't prove that the apple i ate was sour...i have to ask you to also eat it :)
But you see I don't want to eat it, its sour, and I am having to follow you around while you get other people to eat it, I am not interested in your apple.

hy are you so interested in being able to prove it...is it not enough for you to obtain the proof for yourself?

I already have, I am not the one making grand statements that I am unable to provide proof for.

you're like a person that wants everyone to tell you what a certain holiday destination is like...when the best experience would be...pack you bags and get on a flight dude..lol

Nope, I am the person watching someone tell everyone about his holiday, when the holiday snaps reveal something completely different, all I am doing is standing here and telling you that the luxury hottub and valet service was not actually there.

SGGS Ji tells you where to by the bag...ticket...boarding zone, time of arrival at destination etc etc...
SGGSji, or you?
on the question of other worlds...it can be proved to you...if waheguru shows it to you...if you have the right intentions...
I see, so now my intentions are all wrong, and I am not in the super duper club that has access to all these other words.
 

chazSingh

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It clearly says in the SGGSji that Waheguru cannot be described, and that anyone who attempts to describe the state of one who has found Waheguru will surely regret it. So why are you asking me to excuse you, when you are clearly in breach of a direct statement?

you're asking me questions, and i'm trying to answer as best i can...and yes i will fail at trying to describe things i cannot put into words or truely understand myself.

you can;t keep asking all your questions, and then when i try, hit me with Guru Ji's verse above..lol

make your mind up...either you agree with Guru Ji's verse and agree some things can only be experienced and may be beyond all logic and reasoning...or you continue asking questions expecting some proof from me...

So you are not having moments? you have reached understanding 24/7?

in one breath you are saying we cannot prove existence of this that and the other, then you're telling me i'm just having moments of self realization or something...what are you trying to say here?

Its interesting you write this, I agree with the former, its being able to show it, but the latter, 'guide someone else to the same experience' sounds a bit sinister, you can guide someone by drugging them, or bamboozling them, if they are gullible, then guiding someone to see your point of view is not unlike grooming.

why are you so negative? its all doom n gloom lol... seriously....i can guide someone to pass their maths exam by helping them....i can guide around a city that i know more about...i can guide someone to the correct platform for a train because i catch it regularly...i can guide someone through dense thick forest if i've managed to get through it myself...

why do you have to pick something or view something so negatively? yes someone can be groomed and abused, but there does exist the opposite...have some faith in your fellow human beings my good friend :)


ok, do which bit of what the SGGSji says? I already do what the SGGSji says to the best of my abilities, which bit do you suggest I embrace?

the bits i have talked about many times before...but those are bits you don;t agree with :)

But you see I don't want to eat it, its sour, and I am having to follow you around while you get other people to eat it, I am not interested in your apple.

then stop asking me questions :) or skip past my posts.


I already have, I am not the one making grand statements that I am unable to provide proof for.

i'm telling you that some things that are stated in SGGS Ji, i have come to know of through experience by trying to implement things in SGGS Ji into my daily life...and thankfully Waheguru heard my calls.
Do you think i want to sit everyone down and offer some proof...take a DNA sample of Waheguru and have it sampled then Get the BBC to broadcast the results or something...what proof do you want...how do you want it showed to you...i'm telling you whats in SGGS Ji works...and can be proved but its a very personal proof...you have to walk the walk yourself as you have to do in many aspects of life..you already know this...why make pointless remarks like above?

if you are overweight...do you just want proof via claims made on T.V of a fat loss program, or pictures of a before and after....if you want to know if something works for you...you have to try it.


Nope, I am the person watching someone tell everyone about his holiday, when the holiday snaps reveal something completely different, all I am doing is standing here and telling you that the luxury hottub and valet service was not actually there.

errm....ok...


I see, so now my intentions are all wrong, and I am not in the super duper club that has access to all these other words.


you see harry ji, you 'are' in the special club.....you were born as a human being...the only creation of god capable of unravelling and experiencing the KAAR (creation), the ONG (the shabad) and the IK....the one.
 

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