Dasam Granth And Its History

[Tejwant Singh]

Inder Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

You write one more lie below:

This strategy has nothing to do with SPN. it is about how to comabt misinformation about our scriptures on the internet in general and kala afghana sect.

You have accused SPN of being a Kala afghana sect. One more false accusation from a person who calls himself a Sikh..Tsk. Tsk.. Shame!


As I said before you have lost moral athourity to talk anything concerning Sikhi. You have shown that you lack Sikhi traits and lie blatantly as you have been shown to do.

Tejwant Singh

 

[Inder singh]

Inder Singh ji

I hope you now knowthat we do not trash DG here nor are we Kala Afghana mouthpieces. Personally, I have never heard or read anything by him for your information.

I think SPN is probably a more open forum than most. People who post here do not often reflect the beliefs of mods/admin. I hope you understand that because, if you could put that accusatory/judgemental style behind you, I think you could contribute a lot to Sikh discussions and a lot less people would be upset.

dal singh ji

I used to write here two years back or so. I admired SPN in my post. But i know some people from other forums. When i started posting here about a month back on ardas thread and because of my known views i was bullied for my beliefs as Hindu, hindu peddaling dasam granth and Hindu with dhoti down.

So it is not SPN that is at fault but a few peoplewho need to be blamed for that.
They are well known for their ideology.

My intention is not to get personal glorifiaction and nor it is my intention to push any agenda. I have done thorough study of dasm granth to make my opinion about this controversy. My intention is to bare the facts so that our future generations are not deprived of their glorious heritage and merge back into cigarette smoking majority.

I ahve nothing against SPN in particular as i appreciated Aman singh when he warned a person for using foul langauge for Dasam granth sahib. We have common goal and that is to preserve our scritpures and literature.

 

[Inder singh]

What about the statements about correction specifically.

and if there is any error and omission in it, then the poets may still improve (krishna avtaar)

and

if there has remained any error in it, then kindly correct it (ram avtaar)

This doesn't sound like something Guru ji would say about dhur kee bani. Guru Har Rai refused to see Ram Rai for changing a line of bani.

But. If you are saying that this portion is not like bani per se (which I think you are) and is for other considerations, such as trying to encourage a martial attitude, I could agree.

But then it goes backto defining bani. What is bani in the Dasam Granth and what not. Can we simply say those pieces that our a part of our recognised prayers are bani and those not are information for other worldly purposes?

These composiions are adaptions form Purans where dimensions of Hindu deities are changed. These are mythical episodes to infuse war spirit. Also interspersed is spiritual message for sikhs

As in following is a mesage to be a saint soldier

ਧੰਨ ਜੀਓ ਤਿਹ ਕੋ ਜਗ ਮੈ ਮੁਖ ਤੇ ਹਰਿ ਚਿੱਤ ਮੈ ਜੁਧੁ ਬਿਚਾਰੈ ॥ ਦੇਹ ਅਨਿੱਤ ਨ ਨਿੱਤ ਰਹੈ ਜਸੁ ਨਾਵ ਚੜੈ ਭਵਸਾਗਰ ਤਾਰੈ ॥
धंन जीओ तिह को जग मै मुख ते हरि चि्त मै जुधु बिचारै ॥ देह अनि्त न नि्त रहै जसु नाव चड़ै भवसागर तारै ॥
Bravo to the soul of that person, who remembers the Lord through his mouth and reflects in his mind about the war of righteousness; who considers this body the war of righteousness; who considers this body as transient, ascends the boat of Lords` praise and ferries across the dreadful ocean of the world;

ਧੀਰਜ ਧਾਮ ਬਨਾਇ ਇਹੈ ਤਨ ਬੁੱਧਿ ਸੁ ਦੀਪਕ ਜਿਉ ਉਜੀਆਰੈ ॥ ਗਯਾਨਹਿ ਕੀ ਬਢਨੀ ਮਨਹੁ ਹਾਥ ਲੈ ਕਾਤਰਤਾ ਕੁਤਵਾਰ ਬੁਹਾਰੈ ॥੨੪੯੨॥
धीरज धाम बनाइ इहै तन बु्धि सु दीपक जिउ उजीआरै ॥ गयानहि की बढनी मनहु हाथ लै कातरता कुतवार बुहारै ॥२४९२॥
Who makes this body as the abode of forbearance and enlightens it with the lamp of intellect and who taking the broom of knowledge in his hand sweeps away the rubbish of cowardice.2492.

Krishan avtar, Dasam granth

So it is combination of changed puranic text and Guru sahib's message. may be Guru ji is humble when he is writing for suggestion of any improvement in altered text.

 

[The Khalsa Fauj]

Inder Singh, you are saying lots of things just to cover up flaws of DG pointed out by Dal Singh. I request you to accept public talk to prove your point.

 

[spnadmin]

dal singh ji

I used to write here two years back or so. I admired SPN in my post. But i know some people from other forums. When i started posting here about a month back on ardas thread and because of my known views i was bullied for my beliefs as Hindu, hindu peddaling dasam granth and Hindu with dhoti down.

So it is not SPN that is at fault but a few peoplewho need to be blamed for that.
They are well known for their ideology.

My intention is not to get personal glorifiaction and nor it is my intention to push any agenda. I have done thorough study of dasm granth to make my opinion about this controversy. My intention is to bare the facts so that our future generations are not deprived of their glorious heritage and merge back into cigarette smoking majority.

I ahve nothing against SPN in particular as i appreciated Aman singh when he warned a person for using foul langauge for Dasam granth sahib. We have common goal and that is to preserve our scritpures and literature.

Inder ji --

Forsooth! You were here online with us approximately one year ago and at that time you were slinging mud at moderators and forum members who objected to your rude and abusive rhetoric at that time. In those days the subject was Kala Afghana and your tactics were exactly the same.

No questions, nor requests for evidence, nor expectations of logical argument were accepted by you. Anyone who questioned, or even mentioned Kala Afghan in a neutral light was judged as a slanderer then too.

It was easy - Simply call "nindya" and wait for the dust to settle. Please do not continue this line of debate. You have some apologizing to do to this forum and to several of its members. When are you going to face up to that?

 

[Inder singh]

Inder ji --

Forsooth! You were here online with us approximately one year ago and at that time you were slinging mud at moderators and forum members who objected to your rude and abusive rhetoric at that time. In those days the subject was Kala Afghana and your tactics were exactly the same.

No questions, nor requests for evidence, nor expectations of logical argument were accepted by you. Anyone who questioned, or even mentioned Kala Afghan in a neutral light was judged as a slanderer then too.

It was easy - Simply call "nindya" and wait for the dust to settle. Please do not continue this line of debate. You have some apologizing to do to this forum and to several of its members. When are you going to face up to that?

Aad ji

You were moderator at that time . Did i come in confrontation with you? I know you were arguing with one Jasleen kaur and Surinder kaur who left this site. i do not rememebr having any problem with you.

Of course i have strong opinion abotu kala afghana and i say it openly. To say something openly is not nindya.

 

[Inder singh]

Inder ji --

Forsooth! You were here online with us approximately one year ago and at that time you were slinging mud at moderators and forum members who objected to your rude and abusive rhetoric at that time. In those days the subject was Kala Afghana and your tactics were exactly the same.

No questions, nor requests for evidence, nor expectations of logical argument were accepted by you. Anyone who questioned, or even mentioned Kala Afghan in a neutral light was judged as a slanderer then too.

It was easy - Simply call "nindya" and wait for the dust to settle. Please do not continue this line of debate. You have some apologizing to do to this forum and to several of its members. When are you going to face up to that?

Aad ji

You were moderator at that time . Did i come in confrontation with you? I know you were arguing with one Jasleen kaur and Surinder kaur who left this site. i do not rememebr having any problem with you. They were protesting for not being able to post their views from refrences from panthic weekly by someone. They were posting and one moderator was deleting.

Of course i have strong opinion about kala afghana and i say it openly.He is not part of sikh panth. To say something openly is not nindya.

 

[Inder singh]

Inder Singh, you are saying lots of things just to cover up flaws of DG pointed out by Dal Singh. I request you to accept public talk to prove your point.

We can arrange public talk. Please bring Darshan singh who is leader now to CA. I will arrange some knowledgable speaker from India. Are you ready for that?

 

[spnadmin]

Aad ji

You were moderator at that time . Did i come in confrontation with you? I know you were arguing with one Jasleen kaur and Surinder kaur who left this site.

YOu have had a memory lapse. Check the threads.

i do not rememebr having any problem with you. They were protesting for not being able to post their views from refrences from panthic weekly by someone. They were posting and one moderator was deleting.

Another memory lapse.

Of course i have strong opinion about kala afghana and i say it openly.He is not part of sikh panth. To say something openly is not nindya.

This statement is actually interesting. That means that Kala Afghana, Peshaura Singh, Darshan Singh, and other implicated as slanderers, are by your admission innocent. Perhaps then they too have been falsely defamed?

We request that you set the record straight then. Apologize to the SPN members who also spoke publicly but have been accused of slander on two other forums, and this one as well.

There is no point in continuing a discussion of Dasam Granth until you do.

 

[The Khalsa Fauj]

Arrange it in Toronto. I can't guarantee Prof. Darshan Singh to be there. Why do you only want to talk to old Prof.? Also, arrange it in Toronto, not California. I told you before too that I don't have contact for Prof. Darshan Singh. I only got phone # of Gurcharan Singh Jeonwala. He drives truck and is in the US right now. Where? I am not too sure. I am always ready for DG talk in Toronto.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Inder Singh ji

Guru fateh.

You write:

Of course i have strong opinion abotu kala afghana and i say it openly. To say something openly is not nindya.

But accusing others of being KA's chelas and SPN belonging to the KA cult without any proof is not only Nindya but shameless mockery of Sikhi especially by someone who calls himself a Sikh, which is YOU.

You have falsely accused me and other people here of being KA's chelas without any proof.

Here is one more of your lies and then you say you have studied what as a Sikh?

Tejwant Singh

​

 

[Inder singh]

We request that you set the record straight then. Apologize to the SPN members who also spoke publicly but have been accused of slander on two other forums, and this one as well.

There is no point in continuing a discussion of Dasam Granth until you do.

Apology for what? For opposing their views on hurliing abuses on dasam granth and epithets on me. Sorry no apology for that.

You can close the thread if you wish.

 

[dalsingh]

Inder Singh, you are saying lots of things just to cover up flaws of DG pointed out by Dal Singh. I request you to accept public talk to prove your point.

I wouldn't call them flaws. We just need to understand the context of the writing. My point is that the writings are not what I understand dhur ki bani to be. Dhur ki bani can never be changed. So whoever wrote this, and it may be dasmesh pita, saw the writings as different themselves.

I tell you, this DG discussion is just too much sometimes...too heavy

Okay, I'm bowing out.

Behave yourselves everyone.

 

[The Khalsa Fauj]

Since your pulling yourself out of the situation, I won't start debate with you. DG issue is a heavy one because DG is a huge granth with lots of matter.

 

[harbansj24]

Right from childhood we have brought up on 5 banis as "Amrit Vele da Nitnem". These include Jaap Sahib, Swayaye and Chaupayee Sahib. Now suddenly we are told that these are part of "Dasam Granth" and we should not be reciting these, as these have not been rendered by Guru Gobind Singh Ji.

Can you imagine the emotional turmoil that millions of ordinary Sikhs like me, having complete unsahkable faith that this Nitnem has had positive effect in shaping our life and personality, will be subjected to?

Even considering the claims of these persons that these are not compositions of Guru Gobind Singh ji, can still anybody point out, what exactly is wrong if these are recited as part of Nitnem?

We also have some respected members saying since Rehat Nama is not a part of Guru Granth Sahib and that since Guru Gobind singh Ji had ordained Sikhs to only follow Guru Granth Sahib, Sikhs need not have the external manisfestations of Sikhs.

It is my most humble submission that very ordinary Sikhs like me should not be confused and their faith in Sikhi not be shattered.

There has also been an argument the Sikhism is a living and dynamic faith and it can change with new insights etc. But then is it necessary to do so suddenly in a very crass manner by making unsubstantiated allegations against all Hindus and thus promoting unnecessary ill will?

No, our great Gurus have been very magnanimous and have never preached hatred towards any Quam.

 

[Inder singh]

We also have some respected members saying since Rehat Nama is not a part of Guru Granth Sahib and that since Guru Gobind singh Ji had ordained Sikhs to only follow Guru Granth Sahib, Sikhs need not have the external manisfestations of Sikhs.

That is what opponents of Dasam Bani want to achieve in the long run. I have evidence wherein some of these so called neo singhsabhas who promote hate towards Dasam bani saying that hair is not a must for sikhs. They keep it as a cultural baggage.I wish a check is imposed
on them not to hurt religious feelings of a vast majority of sikh and mislead our younger generation.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

That is what opponents of Dasam Bani want to achieve in the long run. I have evidence wherein some of these so called neo singhsabhas who promote hate towards Dasam bani saying that hair is not a must for sikhs. They keep it as a cultural baggage.I wish a check is imposed
on them not to hurt religious feelings of a vast majority of sikh and mislead our younger generation.

Inder Singh ji,

Guru Fateh. ( I hope I get a response in Fateh when you post back as a Sikh).

1.Why so angry again?

2.Why do you want to impose only your thinking unto people?

3.Why lack of tolerance which is again an anti Sikhi trait?

4. Disagreement is not hatred. You are reading from the wrong Dictionary. Disagreements means there are other facets to the same jewel which you as a Sikh should allow yourself to take a glimpse at it from a different light.

If you disagree then, please show it with evidence and prove other wrong. Screaming loudly and accusing will make you ho{censored} for nothing.

I heard you are 82 yrs old. If you are, then I admire one thing in you, that is your tenacity. Now, I hope you will respond to the disagreements in a Sikhi fashion, not in a Talibanic manner.

Tejwant Singh

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Sadh Sangat,


Guru Fateh.

I have some questions as a lay man, so please bear with me if they seem very elementary. I am here to learn.

1. When did Guru Gobind Singh ji start Khandei De Pahul? What date and year?

2. When did Guru Sahib add Gurbani of Guru Teg Bahadur in SGGS? What date & Year?

3. When was Gurgadi given to SGGS ? What date and year?

Thanks for you help.

I am looking forward to the responses.

Tejwant Singh

 

[dalsingh]

1. When did Guru Gobind Singh ji start Khandei De Pahul? What date and year?

The accepted date by Sikhs is 1699 AD, Vasakhi. I'm sure you know this.

2. When did Guru Sahib add Gurbani of Guru Teg Bahadur in SGGS? What date & Year?

Don't know.

3. When was Gurgadi given to SGGS ? What date and year?

It is generally accepted that Gurgaddi was given to SGGS ji very shortly before Guru Gobind Singh ji left his bodily form here. That would be 1708 AD. I'm sure the date would be included in Sainpati's Gursobha which is the closet work to his passing.

 

[harbansj24]

DearTejwant Singh Ji,

Gurufateh,

My knowledge is very limited. I can recollect only 2 dates as follows;

Point 1. April 13, 1699.
Point 2. Do not know
Point 3. Oct. 20, 1708.

Regards

Harbans Singh