REPLIES IN BOLD.
Islam Creation In Islam
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azizrasul
SPNer
- Aug 3, 2007
- 105
- 0
How am I supposed to know u r 16 years old. I'm not complaining about u answering. Don't know why ur upset about it. BTW u haven't answered when the SGGS was written.
The fact that the SGGS says their are many Earths leads me to think that it's possible that this may have been copied from the Qur'an in which case the SGGS is not saying anything that was not already available.
If the SGGS was written by men, then it is not God given scripture. Why should believe in a religion that is man made?
Would like to know more about this universal egg.
I suggest u discuss it here first before u do that otherwise u might not be able to handle it. If u can convince people on this forum, u will then be ready. Otherwise, a google search will find u something.
Replies in bold again
Some more....
He has unfolded the universe in many ways. He has expanded it umpteen times. Only the Lord himself is immortal. All the continents, nether worlds, islands and worlds – God himself has made them all subject to death. The one imperishable Lord himself is unmoving and unchanging. (AGGS P1076)
When He wishes to create, the world comes into existence. When He wills otherwise it is retracted into Himself. (AGGS P292)
When the Lord manifests Himself, He expands and creates worlds and life. When He contracts Himself every created thing is assimilated back into Him (Chaupai)
As the Soap Bubble on the surface of water appears and disappears, Nanak says, hear my friends this is exactly how the Universe behaves. (AGGS P1427)
He has unfolded the universe in many ways. He has expanded it umpteen times. Only the Lord himself is immortal. All the continents, nether worlds, islands and worlds – God himself has made them all subject to death. The one imperishable Lord himself is unmoving and unchanging. (AGGS P1076)
When He wishes to create, the world comes into existence. When He wills otherwise it is retracted into Himself. (AGGS P292)
When the Lord manifests Himself, He expands and creates worlds and life. When He contracts Himself every created thing is assimilated back into Him (Chaupai)
As the Soap Bubble on the surface of water appears and disappears, Nanak says, hear my friends this is exactly how the Universe behaves. (AGGS P1427)
vijaydeep Singh
SPNer
Gurfateh
in the name of the kind and the mercyfull.
Borther Aziz,
If das is not mistaken as per Debbandi interpetations two things make life worse for a Muslim.
1. ego(kindly give Arebic name for the same as das has forgotten it).
2.Envey(Hasad).
As per Sikh Panth also Haumai or ego is real ido worship.So instead of using term I or me ,the first person,writer(vijaydeep Singh )use third person as das(meaning slave(of Allah) term used could be Ghualm or Banda also).
coming to things as yourself have agreed that Allah the Greatest of all created the holy Kuran and holy books of Ahle Kitab(people of books).
Das humbley wants to agree to your things but want to say that there is not need to blinedly follow the scince created by non belivers.
Perhaps Ibisl who could take over the heart might be misguiding us.
1.Allah can create and destroy any thing Allah wants as much times as Allah pleases.
2.Allah can defy scince and theory of it placed forwards by Kafirs(here used for non beliveres).
3.All laws of creation or destructions are by the Allah,of the Allah and for the Allah.Allah can alter them at will.
4.No one can compell Allah.
no man,no writing no creation.
Allah Bless.Allah Afiz.
Bimillah Al Rahman Al Raheem
in the name of the kind and the mercyfull.
Borther Aziz,
If das is not mistaken as per Debbandi interpetations two things make life worse for a Muslim.
1. ego(kindly give Arebic name for the same as das has forgotten it).
2.Envey(Hasad).
As per Sikh Panth also Haumai or ego is real ido worship.So instead of using term I or me ,the first person,writer(vijaydeep Singh )use third person as das(meaning slave(of Allah) term used could be Ghualm or Banda also).
coming to things as yourself have agreed that Allah the Greatest of all created the holy Kuran and holy books of Ahle Kitab(people of books).
Das humbley wants to agree to your things but want to say that there is not need to blinedly follow the scince created by non belivers.
Perhaps Ibisl who could take over the heart might be misguiding us.
1.Allah can create and destroy any thing Allah wants as much times as Allah pleases.
2.Allah can defy scince and theory of it placed forwards by Kafirs(here used for non beliveres).
3.All laws of creation or destructions are by the Allah,of the Allah and for the Allah.Allah can alter them at will.
4.No one can compell Allah.
no man,no writing no creation.
Allah Bless.Allah Afiz.
mystery2006
SPNer
- May 5, 2007
- 10
- 0
Though topic is virtually closed but still i m posting this reply to Mr.Aziz:
The number 7 is often given in the Qur’an to refer to ‘many'.
You are incorrect. In islam there are only 7 heavens & 7 earths.
To u ur interpretation, to me mine.
I have backed my interpretations from other quranic verses & hadiths. So they are more accurate then yours. Anyone can not have interpreatation according to ones own wishes, interpretation should be one & correct.
Whoa! Muhammad (peace be upon him) is NOT the author of the Qur’an. He was unlettered.
U didnt understood the point. Read the verse again. Here author of quran is saying to Muhammad that when people ask him about moon then he should reply them that changing of moon's shape is for our record keeping.
The Islamic calendar is a lunar calendar. After the 12 lunar months are over, the new Islamic calendar begins. What point r u making. Don’t quite understand.
The point i was making was that author says that stages have been given to moon so that humans could measure years from it. This is wrong since stages of the moon have nothing to do with us humans. They are because of rotation of moon around earth. The moon existed before us & will continue to exist after us. It has nothing to do with our presence.
and placed therein a Lamp (siraj) and a Moon giving light (nur);
Nowhere it mentions that light is reflected from the sun. Nur is not a reflected light. It simply means a radient(bright) light. Nur is mentioned in SGGS also & in no way it means reflected light.
The word coils tells us that the Earth rotates on its axis
Thats exactly what i told u. Coming of day, then night & then again day. One doesnt needs science to observe this. This phenomenon is visible to everyone. If anyone states that god slowly changes or coils night upon day or day upon night then whats scientific in it?
U haven’t answered the questions as to how the beginning of the universe could have been known by the Arabs
The begining of universe was not known by arabs. The splitting of earth & sky was a part of common folkfare in which people of those days believed. Pagans of arabia worshiped several gods & like other cultures they to had there share of stories related to begining of the universe. Thats why verse mentions specifically that 'cant the unbelievers see' bcoz author assumes that unbelievers already know about splitting of heaven & earth.
The translation I gave is a more accurate one. 2 of the translations u gave are over 70 years old and not necessarily stringent in it’s correct translation.
Yusuf Ali's translation is well accepted by muslim world. And these were written when translators were not keen on proving science in quran so these can be taken as fairly unbiased.
As far as the hadith is concerned, u r equating something that is being said in a metaphorical sense to something that is scientific? This is a common trick of the trade.
Please explain the metaphorical sense of hadith to us.
Adam (peace be upon him) was made from earth AND water.
Here i m giving you translations that mention creation of adam from dust.
Pickthall Lo! the likeness of Jesus with Allah is as the likeness of Adam. He created him of dust, then He said unto him: Be! and he is.
Yusuf Ali The similitude of Jesus before God is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was.
Hilali-Khan Verily, the likeness of 'Iesa (Jesus) before Allah is the likeness of Adam. He created him from dust, then (He) said to him: "Be!" - and he was.
Shakir Surely the likeness of Isa is with Allah as the likeness of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him, Be, and he was.
Sher Ali Surely the case of Jesus is like the case of Adam. HE created him out of dust, then he said to him, "Be', and he was.
Khalifa The example of Jesus, as far as GOD is concerned, is the same as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him, "Be," and he was.
Arberry Truly, the likeness of Jesus, in God's sight, is as Adam's likeness; He created him of dust, then said He unto him, 'Be,' and he was.
Palmer Verily the likeness of Jesus with God is as the likeness of Adam. He created him from earth, then He said to him BE, and he was;-
Rodwell Verily, Jesus is as Adam in the sight of God. He created him of dust: He then said to him, "Be" - and he was.
Sale Verily the likeness of Jesus in the sight of God, is as the likeness of Adam: He created him out of the dust, and then said unto him, be; and he was.
Moreover the knowledge that life comes from water was not new or something that was not known to mankind. Belief that life comes from water predated islam.
The ancient Greeks believed that life came from water. For example, in Metaphysics, Aristotle records that Thales (62? BCE - 546 BCE) believed 'that it [the nature of things] is water' and Anaximander (611 BCE - 547 BCE) stated that life came from the sea.
Can’t imagine anyone before 1952 climbed high peaks in Arabia which caused this. The mountains in Arabis aren’t that high.
Still theres no science in this verse. The verse simply gives a superficial view. Had the verse stated that constriction is due to lack of oxygen or something then we would have accepted it as miracalous but it only gives a layman description. But even if we assume that this was not known to people of arabia then one wonders why the author of quran would give example of a thing that people of arabia cant relate to. Your second assumption that high altitude mountains(i-e mountains greater than 2500m) dont exist in arabia is also incorrect. Arabia does have such high altittude mountain ranges.
So how do they mate, if they didn’t live in some form of a community? Give examples of which animal u r talking about. If animals didn’t live in some form of a community, they wouldn’t survive.
Asexual reproduction is common among certain organisms like bacteria etc. Such animals can exist in isolation without any support for a partner. Infact science believes that it was such simple one celled organisms from which so called paired humans originated.
The number 7 is often given in the Qur’an to refer to ‘many'.
You are incorrect. In islam there are only 7 heavens & 7 earths.
To u ur interpretation, to me mine.
I have backed my interpretations from other quranic verses & hadiths. So they are more accurate then yours. Anyone can not have interpreatation according to ones own wishes, interpretation should be one & correct.
Whoa! Muhammad (peace be upon him) is NOT the author of the Qur’an. He was unlettered.
U didnt understood the point. Read the verse again. Here author of quran is saying to Muhammad that when people ask him about moon then he should reply them that changing of moon's shape is for our record keeping.
The Islamic calendar is a lunar calendar. After the 12 lunar months are over, the new Islamic calendar begins. What point r u making. Don’t quite understand.
The point i was making was that author says that stages have been given to moon so that humans could measure years from it. This is wrong since stages of the moon have nothing to do with us humans. They are because of rotation of moon around earth. The moon existed before us & will continue to exist after us. It has nothing to do with our presence.
and placed therein a Lamp (siraj) and a Moon giving light (nur);
Nowhere it mentions that light is reflected from the sun. Nur is not a reflected light. It simply means a radient(bright) light. Nur is mentioned in SGGS also & in no way it means reflected light.
The word coils tells us that the Earth rotates on its axis
Thats exactly what i told u. Coming of day, then night & then again day. One doesnt needs science to observe this. This phenomenon is visible to everyone. If anyone states that god slowly changes or coils night upon day or day upon night then whats scientific in it?
U haven’t answered the questions as to how the beginning of the universe could have been known by the Arabs
The begining of universe was not known by arabs. The splitting of earth & sky was a part of common folkfare in which people of those days believed. Pagans of arabia worshiped several gods & like other cultures they to had there share of stories related to begining of the universe. Thats why verse mentions specifically that 'cant the unbelievers see' bcoz author assumes that unbelievers already know about splitting of heaven & earth.
The translation I gave is a more accurate one. 2 of the translations u gave are over 70 years old and not necessarily stringent in it’s correct translation.
Yusuf Ali's translation is well accepted by muslim world. And these were written when translators were not keen on proving science in quran so these can be taken as fairly unbiased.
As far as the hadith is concerned, u r equating something that is being said in a metaphorical sense to something that is scientific? This is a common trick of the trade.
Please explain the metaphorical sense of hadith to us.
Adam (peace be upon him) was made from earth AND water.
Here i m giving you translations that mention creation of adam from dust.
Pickthall Lo! the likeness of Jesus with Allah is as the likeness of Adam. He created him of dust, then He said unto him: Be! and he is.
Yusuf Ali The similitude of Jesus before God is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was.
Hilali-Khan Verily, the likeness of 'Iesa (Jesus) before Allah is the likeness of Adam. He created him from dust, then (He) said to him: "Be!" - and he was.
Shakir Surely the likeness of Isa is with Allah as the likeness of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him, Be, and he was.
Sher Ali Surely the case of Jesus is like the case of Adam. HE created him out of dust, then he said to him, "Be', and he was.
Khalifa The example of Jesus, as far as GOD is concerned, is the same as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him, "Be," and he was.
Arberry Truly, the likeness of Jesus, in God's sight, is as Adam's likeness; He created him of dust, then said He unto him, 'Be,' and he was.
Palmer Verily the likeness of Jesus with God is as the likeness of Adam. He created him from earth, then He said to him BE, and he was;-
Rodwell Verily, Jesus is as Adam in the sight of God. He created him of dust: He then said to him, "Be" - and he was.
Sale Verily the likeness of Jesus in the sight of God, is as the likeness of Adam: He created him out of the dust, and then said unto him, be; and he was.
Moreover the knowledge that life comes from water was not new or something that was not known to mankind. Belief that life comes from water predated islam.
The ancient Greeks believed that life came from water. For example, in Metaphysics, Aristotle records that Thales (62? BCE - 546 BCE) believed 'that it [the nature of things] is water' and Anaximander (611 BCE - 547 BCE) stated that life came from the sea.
Can’t imagine anyone before 1952 climbed high peaks in Arabia which caused this. The mountains in Arabis aren’t that high.
Still theres no science in this verse. The verse simply gives a superficial view. Had the verse stated that constriction is due to lack of oxygen or something then we would have accepted it as miracalous but it only gives a layman description. But even if we assume that this was not known to people of arabia then one wonders why the author of quran would give example of a thing that people of arabia cant relate to. Your second assumption that high altitude mountains(i-e mountains greater than 2500m) dont exist in arabia is also incorrect. Arabia does have such high altittude mountain ranges.
So how do they mate, if they didn’t live in some form of a community? Give examples of which animal u r talking about. If animals didn’t live in some form of a community, they wouldn’t survive.
Asexual reproduction is common among certain organisms like bacteria etc. Such animals can exist in isolation without any support for a partner. Infact science believes that it was such simple one celled organisms from which so called paired humans originated.
azizrasul
SPNer
- Aug 3, 2007
- 105
- 0
I'm afraid it u who is incorrect.
But the other Qur’anic verses u quoted were not talking about the same thing, therefore ur drawing ur interpretations incorrectly. As I said ur interpretation to u and me to mine.
As I have already said, the Islamic calendar is a lunar calendar, therefore in Muslims adopt this calendar. We celebrate the 2 Eids based on the lunar calendar. I’m afraid ur making wild points, hoping to hit a mark in some but missing each time.
The point I was making is that the verse was not suggesting that the moon produces light like the sun for example.
The fact that the Earth rotates on it’s axis. I seem to be repeating myself.
The pagans believed in many thing many of which were wrong on a scientific basis. The point is that the Qur’an is correct in all it’s verses relating to science. The same verse that tells how the universe began, also tells us that all living things r made from water. Praise be to Allah.
Just because it’s well respected doesn’t mean it is 100% perfect. Just as it may be unbiased also doesn’t make it perfect just as other earlier commentators thought the verses meant other things. Don’t just stick to one translation that meets ur interpretation but choose one that more accurately reflects the correct interpretation. I suggest u speak to a good linguist of Arabic. That might help.
The hadith apparently isn’t even attributed to Muhammad (peace be upon him) as I pointed out.
“Allah created Adam from dust after He mixed the clay and left him for some time until it became sticky mud, after which Allah shaped him. After that Allah left him till it became like potter's clay.”
A saying of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) - Sahih al-Bukhari
7. Who made good everything that He has created, and He began the creation of man from clay (tiyn).
Qur’an - Surah as-Sajda (The Prostration) 32:7 See also 16:4, 18:37 and 22:5.
So was it known in pre-Islam that the early universe was of smoke? So was it known in pre-Islam that the universe was expanding? U r picking out verses individually. If u take all the verses together u will c the TRUTH, whilst the people u mention may have said things that were coincidentally right but they also said thing that were wrong. The Qur’an is right all the time. Thales explained earthquakes by hypothesizing that the Earth floats on water, and that earthquakes occur when the Earth is rocked by waves. What nonsense. U will find similar things with Anaximander. He believed that the Earth was like a cylinder. Look it up.
Here’s the verse again and note the word breast.
Those whom Allah (in His plan) willeth to guide,- He openeth their breast to Islam; those whom He willeth to leave straying,- He maketh their breast close and constricted, as if they had to climb up to the skies: thus doth Allah (heap) the penalty on those who refuse to believe.
Qur’an - Surah al-An`aam (The Cattle) 6:125
But it’s something that we can relate to now. There were Qur’anic verses whose meaning was not known at the time as the science was not known. Muhammad 9peace be upon him) himself said to the Muslims at the time that they would not understand everything especially in sign of nature. This is the beauty of the Qur’an that we r learning new things. Praise be to Allah, Most Great.
But not where oxygen would need to be taken. It is only in the last part of the descent of Mt. Everest that oxygen is required.
U r resorting to extreme example to prove a point. This shows u r in denial of the truth and not prepared to face up to it.
azizrasul
SPNer
- Aug 3, 2007
- 105
- 0
The process of human reproduction is also discussed in the Qur’an. The spermatic liquid is formed by various secretions from the male human body, which come from the following glands: -
a. testes or generative glands - produces spermatozoon’s, the fertilising cells
b. seminal vesicle glands – these organs are reservoirs of spermatozoon’s and are placed near the prostate gland; they also secrete their own liquid but it does not contain any fertilising agents
c. prostate gland – this secrets a liquid which gives the sperm its creamy texture
d. bulb urethral glands – secrete a clear fluid known as Cowper's fluid and it’s biological function is to prepare the urinary tract for the passage of semen and neutralize acidity due to any residual urine
We are also aware, from biological science, that only a tiny portion of the fertilising semen is required to fertilise the female egg. Once the female egg has been fertilised in the fallopian tube, it descends to lodge inside the uterine wall; this is called the implantation of the egg. Interestingly this is one of the features that medical staff looks for in IVF treatment. Failure in this, results in an unsuccessful pregnancy.
“Verily, We fashioned man from a small quantity of mingled (amchaj) liquids . . .”
Qur’an - Surah al-Insaan (Man) 76:2
37. “Was (man) not a small quantity of sperm which has been poured out?
38. After that, he was something which clings (alaq); then God fashioned him in due proportion and harmoniously.”
Qur’an - Surah al-Qiyaama (The Resurrection) 75:37-8
The further development process of the foetus is explained in the following Qur’anic verses.
12. We fashioned man from the quintessence (sulatat) of a clay (tiyn - water and earth).
13. Then placed him as a drop (nutfah - of seed) in a place of rest, firmly fixed (qararin makin);
14. We fashioned the thing which clings (alaq) into a lump of chewed flesh (mudrat) and We fashioned the chewed flesh (mudrat) into bones and We clothed the bones with intact flesh (lahm), and then produced it as another creation. So blessed be Allah, the Best of creators!
Qur’an - Surah al-Mu`minoon (The Cleaving) 23:12-4 See also 77:20-22.
And indeed He has fashioned you in stages (twar - phases).
Qur’an - Surah Nuh (Noah) 71:14
O mankind! if ye have a doubt about the Resurrection, (consider) that We created you out of dust, then out of sperm, then out of a leech-like clot, then out of a morsel of flesh, partly formed and partly unformed, in order that We may manifest (our power) to you; and We cause whom We will to rest in the wombs for an appointed term, then do We bring you out as babes, then (foster you) that ye may reach your age of full strength; and some of you are called to die, and some are sent back to the feeblest old age, so that they know nothing after having known (much), and (further), thou seest the earth barren and lifeless, but when We pour down rain on it, it is stirred (to life), it swells, and it puts forth every kind of beautiful growth (in pairs).
Qur’an – Surah al-Hajj (The Pilgrimage) 22:5 See also 67:23.
In embryonic stages, the reproductive organs of the male i.e. the testis begin their development near the kidney between the spinal column and the eleventh and twelfth ribs. Later they descend, before birth, to reach the scrotum through the inguinal canal. Even in the adult after the descent of the reproductive organ, these organs receive their nerve supply and blood supply from the Abdominal Aorta, which is in the area between the backbone (spinal column) and the ribs.
5. So let man consider from what he is created.
6. He is created from a drop emitted -
7. Proceeding from between the loins (sulb) and the ribs:
Qur’an – Surah at-Tariq (The Morning Star, The Nightcomer) 86:5-7
The father determines the gender of the unborn child. At the time of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) the reverse was the normal belief i.e. the mother determined the gender of the child.
45. “(God) fashioned the two of a pair, the male and the female,
46. from a small quantity (of sperm) when it is poured out.”
Qur’an – Surah an-Najm (The Star) 53:45-6
Then He made of him two kinds, the male and the female.
Qur’an - Surah al-Qiyaama (The Resurrection) 75:39
Allah created you from dust, then from a little fluid, then He made you pairs (the male and female). No female beareth or bringeth forth save with His knowledge. And no-one groweth old who groweth old, nor is aught lessened of his life, but it is recorded in a Book, Lo! That is easy for Allah.
Qur’an - Surah Fatir (The Creator) 35:11 See also 36:81 and 46:33.
a. testes or generative glands - produces spermatozoon’s, the fertilising cells
b. seminal vesicle glands – these organs are reservoirs of spermatozoon’s and are placed near the prostate gland; they also secrete their own liquid but it does not contain any fertilising agents
c. prostate gland – this secrets a liquid which gives the sperm its creamy texture
d. bulb urethral glands – secrete a clear fluid known as Cowper's fluid and it’s biological function is to prepare the urinary tract for the passage of semen and neutralize acidity due to any residual urine
We are also aware, from biological science, that only a tiny portion of the fertilising semen is required to fertilise the female egg. Once the female egg has been fertilised in the fallopian tube, it descends to lodge inside the uterine wall; this is called the implantation of the egg. Interestingly this is one of the features that medical staff looks for in IVF treatment. Failure in this, results in an unsuccessful pregnancy.
“Verily, We fashioned man from a small quantity of mingled (amchaj) liquids . . .”
Qur’an - Surah al-Insaan (Man) 76:2
37. “Was (man) not a small quantity of sperm which has been poured out?
38. After that, he was something which clings (alaq); then God fashioned him in due proportion and harmoniously.”
Qur’an - Surah al-Qiyaama (The Resurrection) 75:37-8
The further development process of the foetus is explained in the following Qur’anic verses.
12. We fashioned man from the quintessence (sulatat) of a clay (tiyn - water and earth).
13. Then placed him as a drop (nutfah - of seed) in a place of rest, firmly fixed (qararin makin);
14. We fashioned the thing which clings (alaq) into a lump of chewed flesh (mudrat) and We fashioned the chewed flesh (mudrat) into bones and We clothed the bones with intact flesh (lahm), and then produced it as another creation. So blessed be Allah, the Best of creators!
Qur’an - Surah al-Mu`minoon (The Cleaving) 23:12-4 See also 77:20-22.
And indeed He has fashioned you in stages (twar - phases).
Qur’an - Surah Nuh (Noah) 71:14
O mankind! if ye have a doubt about the Resurrection, (consider) that We created you out of dust, then out of sperm, then out of a leech-like clot, then out of a morsel of flesh, partly formed and partly unformed, in order that We may manifest (our power) to you; and We cause whom We will to rest in the wombs for an appointed term, then do We bring you out as babes, then (foster you) that ye may reach your age of full strength; and some of you are called to die, and some are sent back to the feeblest old age, so that they know nothing after having known (much), and (further), thou seest the earth barren and lifeless, but when We pour down rain on it, it is stirred (to life), it swells, and it puts forth every kind of beautiful growth (in pairs).
Qur’an – Surah al-Hajj (The Pilgrimage) 22:5 See also 67:23.
In embryonic stages, the reproductive organs of the male i.e. the testis begin their development near the kidney between the spinal column and the eleventh and twelfth ribs. Later they descend, before birth, to reach the scrotum through the inguinal canal. Even in the adult after the descent of the reproductive organ, these organs receive their nerve supply and blood supply from the Abdominal Aorta, which is in the area between the backbone (spinal column) and the ribs.
5. So let man consider from what he is created.
6. He is created from a drop emitted -
7. Proceeding from between the loins (sulb) and the ribs:
Qur’an – Surah at-Tariq (The Morning Star, The Nightcomer) 86:5-7
The father determines the gender of the unborn child. At the time of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) the reverse was the normal belief i.e. the mother determined the gender of the child.
45. “(God) fashioned the two of a pair, the male and the female,
46. from a small quantity (of sperm) when it is poured out.”
Qur’an – Surah an-Najm (The Star) 53:45-6
Then He made of him two kinds, the male and the female.
Qur’an - Surah al-Qiyaama (The Resurrection) 75:39
Allah created you from dust, then from a little fluid, then He made you pairs (the male and female). No female beareth or bringeth forth save with His knowledge. And no-one groweth old who groweth old, nor is aught lessened of his life, but it is recorded in a Book, Lo! That is easy for Allah.
Qur’an - Surah Fatir (The Creator) 35:11 See also 36:81 and 46:33.
- Jul 14, 2007
- 4,576
- 1,609
Muslim by the name of Mohd Rafi, sings shabad kirtan:
Detecting your Computer Configuration ...
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/discourses-in-english/16516-kirtan-with-english-sub-titles-2.html
Detecting your Computer Configuration ...
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/discourses-in-english/16516-kirtan-with-english-sub-titles-2.html
azizrasul
SPNer
- Aug 3, 2007
- 105
- 0
R u referring to the 'What is Gurmat' thread or the link http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/discou...-titles-2.html?
http://www.islam-watch.org/SyedKamranMirza/Quran-Human-Embryology.htm
Science in Quran: Ambiguity of Human Embryology
by Syed Kamran Mirza
12 May, 2007
Although, the world’s history tells us that no religion can boast/demand any credit for the advancement of modern science, at least one religion “Islam” very recently started futile/meaningless propaganda of the possession of scientific theories from the divine source. This unique and untrue claim has been carefully orchestrated and manipulated by some unscrupulous Muslims with the help of two western medical scientists mainly for three purposes: (a) to continue monopoly business of Saudi Kingdom’s revenue from Hajj pilgrimage; (b) to rejuvenate Islamic fundamentalism; and (c) to earn easy money by those two western scientists. Readers please read the NFB’s article, titled: Religion, Science and Bogus claims”, dated Feb. 8, 2000, by Khurshed Chowdhury. Fact of the matter is, religion and Science are two completely opposite subjects having rivalry and contradictions from the dawn of the human civilization. Readers please also read a very well written NFB article, dated: 4/21/00, titled: “Religion and Science” by Mr. Nurul I. Mukul.
However, it is the intention of this essay to examine what exactly was known about the human origin at the time of 7th century period in order to see whether any of the theories expressed in the Qur'an were true or indeed well known before this time.
There are at least 60 verses which deal explicitly with human origin and developmental sequences inside the womb, but these are scattered throughout the Qur'an and many of the them are repeated over and over again, as is common to much of the book. An useful place to begin would be the material out of which we are created. Although, one would expect the Qur'an to be unambiguous about such an elementary matter, but the verses listed show just how much uncertainty there appears to be in our origins. Note that except where indicated the translation used is the translation of Yusuf Ali (Saudi Revised Edition).
Below are some Quranic Ayats regarding origin of man
Could it be from earth?
11:61 It is He Who hath produced you from the earth
Or dry clay (Arabic Salsaal)?
15:26,28,33 We created man from sounding clay
17:61 ... Thou didst create from clay
32:7 He began the creation of man from clay
Did we come from mud?
23:12 We created man from a product of wet earth (loam) (Pickthall)
23:12 Man We did create from a quintessence (of clay)
38:71 I am about to create a mortal out of mire
Could it be dust?
3:59 He created (Jesus) out of dust
30:20 He created you from dust
35:11 Allah did create you from dust ....
The metaphorical description of God making man out of the soil of the earth is ancient and predates the Qur'an by thousands of years; it is found in the Bible in Genesis 2:7. If this was literal it would be in direct scientific conflict with evolutionists who maintain that life was created out of the oceans,
Did we come from nothing?
19:67 We created him before out of nothing
No, we did not!
52:35 Were they created of nothing?
(Note the contradiction here).
Or water?
25:54 It is He Who has created man from water
21:30 We made you from water
24:45 And God has created every animals from water
Thew Arabic word Nutfah was translated as ‘water’ by present day apologetics, but in older translated Quran both in Bengali and English the word Nutfah was translated as ‘neglected water’ (Tuuchcha pani) meaning semen.
Perhaps we arose from the dead or from one person?
30:19 It is He who brings out the living from the dead
39:6 He created you from a single Person
4:1 Your guardian lord, created you from a single person
The drop of fluid or semen
In a number of places we are informed that man is created from a drop of fluid (semen, seed ):
In the verses listed below ‘ nutfah’ is used when describing the fluid which gushes out during sexual intercourse and clearly this can only refer to semen.
16:4 He created man from a drop of fluid (Pickthall)
16:4 He has created man from a semen( sperm) -drop
32:8 He made his seed from a quintessence of despised fluid
35:11 ...then from a little fluid (Pickthall)
53:46 (he created) from a drop of seed when it is poured forth (Pickthall)
53:46 From a sperm-drop when lodged (in its place)
56:58 Have ye seen that which ye emit (Pickthall)
56:58 Do you then see? The (human Seed) that ye emit
75:37 Was he not a drop of fluid which gushed forth (Pickthall)
75:37 Was he not a drop of sperm emitted (in lowly form)?
76:2 We create man from a drop of thickened fluid (Pickthall)
76:2 We created Man from a drop of mingled semen (sperm)
80:19 From a semen-drop (sperm) He hath created him
Could any of this have been known to sixth-century Muslims at the time of Prophet Muhammed ? Surely that procreation involves the emission of a drop of fluid has been well known from the earliest days of civilization.
The verses which describe the origin of life as a drop of emitted fluid are therefore no more than a direct observation as to what is released during the act of sexual intercourse. We hardly need to rely upon divine inspiration to inform us of this fact. An illiterate man who never heard about Quran can tell about this ‘emitted fluid’ from male, or even a 12 year old boy can tell how and why child is created in the womb of a mother.
The Qur'an emphatically does not mention sperm or eggs; it simply says nutfah. This can reasonably be translated semen, or at best as germinal fluid - which was a term used as early as Hippocrates [1] who spoke of male and female reproductive fluids (but obviously could not have been aware of the cells contained in the fluids).
Prof. Moore by his wishful intention translated nutfah as germinal fluid, he inadvertently reinforces that the Qur'an is borrowing this term from the Greeks.
Borrowing erroneous Greek ideas
Sura- (86:6-7) “He is created from a drop emitted - proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs”
Sura- (7:172) "when thy Lord drew forth from the Children of Adam - from their loins - their descendants" or
Sura- (4:23) "prohibited to you (for marriage) are ... wives of your sons proceeding from your loins".
In the Quranic translation by Maulana Fazlur Rahman Munshi, the Ayat (86:6-7) were translated as: semen are produced from the back of a man and from the breasts (mammary glands) of an woman.
Sura 86:6-7 : is interesting since it claims that during the act of sexual intercourse before which a man is created, the "gushing fluid" or semen issues from between the loins and ribs. Semen is apparently coming out of the area around the kidneys and back, which is a real scientific mistake for we know that the testicles are the sites of sperm production (although the ancient Greeks were not so convinced. Aristotle for example amusingly believed that they functioned as weights to keep the seminal passages open during sexual intercourse [2]).
The Greek physician Hippocrates and his followers taught in the fifth century BC that semen comes from all the fluid in the body, diffusing from the brain into the spinal marrow, before passing through the kidneys and via the testicles into the ***** [3]. Clearly according to this view sperm originates from the region of the kidneys, and although there is serious scientific error to this teaching today, it was well-known in the 7th century period, and shows how the Qur'an could contain such an erroneous statement. So this is an example of an incorrect ancient Greek idea re-emerging in the Qur'an.
Comments
To resolve the considerable guess works and ambiguity about what exactly we are made of , is like a Carpenter when he was asked about a wooden table how he made it, he (Carpenter) then answers: “This table was made out of wood, out of soil, out of water , out of air, out nitrogen and so on.” Now, apologist can argue by saying that,, Tree grows in soil, needs water, nitrogen, air etc. so it is O.K. to answer all those (instead of saying I made it from wood). Or, insincere, blind-folded Mullahs can argue that, these were allegory, and not to be taken literally. Question is where is the key to decide those so called Allegories?
It is quite plausible to consider that, Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) encountered (during the initial propagation of divine revelations) lots of questions (from sahabis), as to how, Allah created human beings, and those questions obviously made it necessary to bring those above mentioned Ayats regarding human origin. Now, question can be asked—how an illiterate Prophet could gather such expert knowledge? In the future essays, I intend to postulate possible means through which Prophet could have received these knowledge.
Among the above mentioned Qur’anic ambiguity, creation of life from water could be taken as something close to modern scientific knowledge. However, Hinduism’s Veda and ancient Greek philosopher/scientist THALES already told the world about it thousands of years before the arrival of the Qur’an.
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Azizrasul ji this article itself is written by muslim/ex-muslim.i don't understand why muslims themselves are refuting science in quran.
- Jul 14, 2007
- 4,576
- 1,609
Watch this video clip:
YouTube - Sikh Scriptures - Creation of The Universe - Sikhism
The thread : "What is Gurmat" is under the Interfaith section.
You might find someone with a like mind as yours.
YouTube - Sikh Scriptures - Creation of The Universe - Sikhism
The thread : "What is Gurmat" is under the Interfaith section.
You might find someone with a like mind as yours.
mystery2006
SPNer
- May 5, 2007
- 10
- 0
Good Reply Kds. Mr Aziz i was going to reply to ur human reproduction post but was busy in last few days. Though Kds has replied well enough but if u still want i can post lenghty point by point rebuttal to bring down ur air castles of islamic science.
azizrasul
SPNer
- Aug 3, 2007
- 105
- 0
kds1980, mystery2006 and aad0002. U all need to do better. I have to admit I'm a bit dissppointed. I expected something more concrete.
Sorry not impressed. I would have expected some clarity. Need to do better than that. Here’s why.
The Qur’an talks about initial creation of man (Adam – peace be upon him) as well as reproductive creation of man, us. Adam (peace be upon him) was created from a mixture of soil and water. The soil to begin with was earth, which then changes as water is introduced to become clay. I see no contradiction to the fact that the Qur’an uses earth (ard) or clay (tiyn) etc. It is simply the stages of creation.
Were they created of nothing, or were they themselves the creators?
There will always be a contradiction if verses are given out of context. A common trick.
Sorry not impressed. I would have expected some clarity. Need to do better than that. Here’s why.
The Qur’an talks about initial creation of man (Adam – peace be upon him) as well as reproductive creation of man, us. Adam (peace be upon him) was created from a mixture of soil and water. The soil to begin with was earth, which then changes as water is introduced to become clay. I see no contradiction to the fact that the Qur’an uses earth (ard) or clay (tiyn) etc. It is simply the stages of creation.
Yes God did. He created the universe out of nothing.
Here’s the whole verse: -
Were they created of nothing, or were they themselves the creators?
There will always be a contradiction if verses are given out of context. A common trick.
We all r made from water i.e. from the sperm. Adam was created from earth and water, hence the word sticky in 37:11. I see no contradiction.
Misunderstanding of the verse here. When we die, we will be re-resurrected i.e. from the dead. The reference to single person is talking about the fact that we all come from Adam (peace be upon him). A totally different point. Using 2 different verses and making them seem to be talking about the same thing is very unimpressive.
Really. Are u suggesting that n illiterate man at that time could have told u that only a tiny drop of the semen is required to fertilize the female egg? This fact has only been known in the last century. Only 1 sperm out of millions of sperms in 1 ejaculation is required to fertilize the egg. I don’t think that an illiterate man in the 6th century or a 12 year old boy would have known that.
Whether he is a Muslim or not does not make a difference to the legitimacy of the Qur’an.
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