Islam Creation In Islam

[Astroboy]

In conclusion, we have two Holy Books namely the Quran and the Sri Guru Granth Sahib. Both of them mention that God, Allah created the universe. One book (the Quran) says Allah loves only certain portion of HIS creation and dislikes the other portion. Whereas the other book (SGGS) says God, Allah resides in HIS creation, so how can you label one portion good and the other portion bad?

Now it is up to the individual to reason out the logic from these two books and follow the "right one".

 

[mystery2006]

“Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth (meaning the universe) were joined together (ratq) in one piece, then We (meaning God, the Creator) rent them asunder (fataqa) and We got every living thing out of water. Will they then not believe?”

Excuse me Mr. Aziz but could u plz tell me how can unbelievers see that heaven and earth were once one & latter they were seperated ?
Even if we assume that the verse refers to big-bang then it is sheer nonsense to include this starting line since at the time of big-bang there were neither believers nor unbelievers to witness the event. So the question now is why would someone add such a starting line?
The answer is that splitting of heavens & earth was a common knowledge among the pagans(pre-islamic arabians). Thats the reason why the verse makes an assumption that the readers already know that heaven & earth were split. The verse only asserts that it was none other than allah that caused the splitting. So another muslim claim of scientific knowledge falls flat.

 

[azizrasul]

When his obdurate, obstinate and bigoted approach pushed me to my limit, I was compelled to write this essay.

Pity he didn’t make a good job of it. Here’s why.

These are the phenomena they have observed since their birth. God controls these heavenly objects, they thought. That certain laws of physics govern the progress of these celestial bodies, they could never comprehend.

God created the universe and all the physical laws associated with it. Hence there is no contradiction to say that God does not control the celestial bodies. He does indirectly thru His physical laws.

Is not He (best) Who made the earth a fixed abode, and placed rivers in the folds thereof, and placed firm hills therein, and hath set a barrier between the two seas? Is there any Allah beside Allah? Nay, but most of them know not!

Here when the fixed abode is being mentioned it is the Earth relative to itself not the Earth as a celestial body in relation to the universe.

Here’s 2:22 that he mentions as a possible verse: -

Who hath appointed the earth a resting-place for you, and the sky a canopy;
and causeth water to pour down from the sky, thereby producing fruits as food for
you. And do not set up rivals to Allah when ye know (better).

Again the earth is being mentioned relative to us as a people not in relation to other celestial bodies.

Since the previously mentioned scholar was absolutely certain that the Qur’an contains all the scientific principles, with due respect, I earnestly requested him to show me a verse, just a single verse in the Qur’an that states that the earth moves round the sun; or that the earth rotates on its own axis, at the least. ‘I shall accept all your contentions, for sure, if you can show me such a verse’, I wrote. The Arabic word for earth is ‘Ard’ and the Arabic word for rotation is ‘Falak’. ‘Please show a just a single verse in the Qur’an that uses the two words ‘Ard’ and ‘Falak’ side by side’, I insisted.

He could not show me a single verse to that effect.

The Qur’an does not contain ALL scientific principles. Hence this individual has begun his argument with an incorrect fact. So asking earnestly or otherwise is not going to produce something that is not there.

How is it possible for Allah to commit such a humongous blunder

He didn’t. It was Zul-Qurnain who says this i.e. when it say ‘he found ..’ is referring to Zul-Qurnain not God.

Many readers may not be aware that the 'Muslim World' considers Muhammad to be the greatest scientist,

Never heard that before. Anyone can make an argument based on a false statement and then say, Ha! See u were wrong.

We all know that islamic countries have billions of petro dollars.how could we so sure that

That dr. maurice bucaille was not bribed.Do you think that this world is really so simple

No amount of money can change scientific laws. If Bucaille WAS bribed (this is a pretty desperate view), were all the scientists bribed as well?

As far as scientific discoveries are concerned it is yeh it clearly matters.today western world has made scientific discoveries that's why you peole want to associate with them.

If quran is really so scientific then how is it possible that after reading and analysing quran for 1200 years islamic scholars were unable to discover that earth is round, bing bang theory etctheory.

I don’t associate myself with them as u put it. I’m simply looking at the science. If the scientific discoveries are made by non Muslims then so what? It’s the science that counts. It does not belong to anyone. The ‘Big Bang’ theory is in the Qur’an. Look at my opening post. You ask why the Islamic scholars didn’t know that the earth was round, yet u say nothing about the fact that the Qur’an is saying something about the sequence of creation, the expanding universe, the early gaseous universe, etc. Talking about things that are not in the Qur’an is a sure sign on of avoiding what IS there.

In conclusion

Your conclusion. Allah does not reside in His creation, according to Islam.

Unbelievers can see that from the ‘Big Bang’ theory. Your taking the word ‘see’ literally. That’s not how it is being used here.

 

[cherylyoung]

In post #57862 Azizrasul said: "If I want to be a follower of a religion, I want proof of it’s authenticity. I don’t want to follow it blindly. It’s like the blind leading the blind."

According to my understanding of Islam, (and the post of Azizrasul) it is the clear and convincing proof of scientific "facts" in the Qur'an scriptures that compel Muslims to accept the spiritual philosophy of the Qur'an as true. I think that is what Azizrasul meant by "proof of its authenticity."

This is a fallacy of resoning. Simply stated:
If the a, b, c, information is true/authentic (in the Qur'an)
Then, the x, y, z philosophy (in the Qur'an) is true/authentic.
Therefore, being convinced by these "clear" proofs,
A person may decide to become a follower because
he is not following a religion due to blind faith but rather
due to logical reasoning.

So, I reiterate....
I agree with post #57816 that even if the Qur'an has accurate scientific facts, it does not mean the spiritual fruits of Islam are correct.

It would be a logical fallacy to assume that the spiritual fruits of Islam are correct/true/authentic BECAUSE it has/may have accurate scientific facts.

Rather than following a religion blindly, it seems to me that Muslims are blind to truth, reason and logic and deliberately decide to follow Islam after being convinced by fallacies of logic.

Azizrasul said: "I’m concentrating on Science & the Qur’an. Again, I repeat, GET WITH IT."

Does "GET WITH IT" mean submit to Islam because of being convinced by the logic fallacy? The rhyme and poetry in the Qur'an are nice but even that would not convict me to submit to Islam.

Azizrasul said: "If u guys are saying that Islam cannot be authentic when science and Qur’an are matching, how can anyone take Sikhism seriously or believed as authentic when it gives no such evidence."

Simply stated...
A person ought to take a religion seriously when it matches science.
A person ought to take Islam seriously (as authentic) because it matches science.
A person ought not to take Sikhism seriously (or believe as authentic) because it does not give evidence (of science).

It seems to me that you believe in science.

 

[azizrasul]

I agree with post #57816 that even if the Qur'an has accurate scientific facts, it does not mean the spiritual fruits of Islam are correct.

I think in many cases if someone accepts that the science is correct in the Qur’an he\she will accept part or all of the Qur’an. Whether they revert to Islam or not lies with Allah, Most Great.

I would be interested to know what other criteria other than science u can come up with to at least validate a part of scripture. How would u convince me that the Sikh scriptures are true and that if I followed them I would succeed in the hereafter?

Rather than following a religion blindly, it seems to me that Muslims are blind to truth, reason and logic and deliberately decide to follow Islam after being convinced by fallacies of logic.

Muslims are acceptors of truth not blind to it, although I have met some Muslim who do blindly follow Islam parrot fashion as taught by some Imams, particularly from the Indian subcontinent. If ALL Muslims tried to understand Islam to whatever level they are capable of, then would be GREAT.

GET WITH IT

I mean get with the subject of the thread. Whether you believe in Islam or not is up to you.

Simply stated...
A person ought to take a religion seriously when it matches science.
A person ought to take Islam seriously (as authentic) because it matches science.
A person ought not to take Sikhism seriously (or believe as authentic) because it does not give evidence (of science).

It seems to me that you believe in science.

I repeat, how else would you authenticate any scripture. Would be happy to explore other ways of doing it. As a human, I would not accept any scripture even the Qur’an without some way of showing at least to an individual’s satisfaction that it is authentic. The Sikh scriptures so far has not done that. I asked what the Hindu scriptures say about the creation of the universe. The silence is ‘deafening’.

If you want to convince anyone of their beliefs u need to come up with something. U can’t just expect someone to accept just because u say so. That’s certainly not logical. At least I have tried even if no one on this forum accepts it. I believe we will ALL stand before Allah on the Day of Judgement, when we will have to answer to Him.

None of the Sikh participants have done the same by trying to convince me of Sikhism. The only thing I got was that a bit of hair produced many worlds?????? What’s all that about?

It seems to me that you believe in science.

I believe in Allah as the Creator. I was simply trying to prove that Allah is the author of the Qur’an thru science.

There is also a verse giving us information regarding other earth like planets, which have been discovered.

God is He Who created seven Firmaments and of the earth a similar number.
Qur’an - Surah at-Talaaq (Divorce) 65:12

5. So verily I call to witness the Planets (khunnas) that recede,
6. Go straight, or hide;
Qur’an - Surah at-Takwir (The Overthrowing) 81:15-16

Regarding the motion of the sun and the moon. The moon orbits the Earth, whilst the sun orbits the Milky Way galaxy approximately every 225 million years at a speed of 250 kilometres per second. Verse 21:33, below, shows that both celestial bodies have orbits and have their own motions (the sun and the moon rotate on their own axes).

“(God) is the One Who created the night, the day, the Sun and the Moon. Each one is travelling in an orbit with its own motion.”
Qur’an - Surah al-Anbiyaa (The Prophets) 21:33 See also 36:40.

The sun and the moon follow courses (exactly) computed.
Qur’an - Surah ar-Rahman (The Beneficent) 55:5

He created the heavens and the earth in true (proportions): He coils (kawwara) the night upon the day and He coils (kawwara) the day upon the night." He has subjected the sun and the moon (to His law): Each one follows a course for a time appointed. Is not He the Exalted in Power - He Who forgives again and again?
Qur’an – Surah az-Zumar (The Groups) 39:5

The sun is a source of light, while the moon reflects it.

It is He Who made the sun to be a shining glory and the moon to be a light (of beauty), and measured out stages for her; that ye might know the number of years and the count (of time). Nowise did Allah create this but in truth and righteousness. (Thus) doth He explain His Signs in detail, for those who understand.
Qur’an - Surah Yunus (Jonah) 10:5 See also 25:61 and 71:16

38. And the sun runs his course for a period determined for him: that is the decree of (Him), the Exalted in Might, the All-Knowing.
39. And the Moon,- We have measured for her mansions (to traverse) till she returns like the old (and withered) lower part of a date-stalk.
40. It is not permitted to the Sun to catch up the Moon, nor can the Night outstrip the Day: Each (just) swims along in (its own) orbit (according to Law).
Qur’an – Surah Yasin 36:38-40 See also 57:6.

The constellations that appear in the night sky throughout the year are also mentioned in the Qur’an.

Blessed is He Who made constellations in the skies, and placed therein a Lamp (siraj) and a Moon giving light (nur);
Qur’an - Surah al-Furqan (The Criterion) 25:61

And verily in the heaven we have set mansions of the stars, and We have beautified it for beholders.
Qur’an - Surah al-Hijr (The Rock) 15:16

By the heaven, holding mansions of the stars,
Qur’an - Surah al-Burooj (The Constellations) 85:1

 

[mystery2006]

Hello again Mr. Aziz.
Well i was disappointed with ur response to my first post on the topic. All u came up with was that word 'see' is being taken literally but neither u refuted my explaination nor did u gave any alternative meaning.

Anways lets continue analyzing your so called 'quranic science'

There is also a verse giving us information regarding other earth like planets, which have been discovered.
God is He Who created seven Firmaments and of the earth a similar number. Qur’an - Surah at-Talaaq (Divorce) 65:12
Which earth like planets are u talking about? Our solar system alone has nine planets & there are thousands of such planets scattered all over. As far as i see theres nothing scientific in this verse.

“(God) is the One Who created the night, the day, the Sun and the Moon.
This is just a statement nothing scientific in it.

Each one is travelling in an orbit with its own motion.”
This also a layman's observation. Standing in deserts of arabia anyone can see sun & moon travelling from one part of the sky to another.

The sun and the moon follow courses (exactly) computed.
Again same movement of sun & moon in the sky. Whats scientific?

He created the heavens and the earth in true (proportions): He coils (kawwara) the night upon the day and He coils (kawwara) the day upon the night."
Again an ordinary statement. Coiling of night & day is a common phenomenon visible to naked human eye. It doesnt requires to be a rocket scientist to see that night coils in day & day in night.

He has subjected the sun and the moon (to His law):
Again plane statement.

Each one follows a course for a time appointed And the sun runs his course for a period determined for him: that is the decree of (Him), the Exalted in Might, the All-Knowing.
And the Moon,- We have measured for her mansions (to traverse) till she returns like the old (and withered) lower part of a date-stalk.
Again simple layman observations. Any one can see sun travels from east to west for a fixed period in the day.Same applies to motion of the moon at night. Not an iota of science in it.

It is not permitted to the Sun to catch up the Moon, nor can the Night outstrip the Day:
This again confirms the layman attitude of the author. Are sun & moon racing with each-other so that they might outstrip each-other? Another layman observation is everytime sun & moon are mentioned, the night & day are followed. This is along the expected lines since author could never imagine that night & day are because of rotation of earth on its own axis. For author day was associated with sun & night with moon.

The sun is a source of light, while the moon reflects it.
No where in ur given verses i could find a verse that confirms this statement.

The constellations that appear in the night sky throughout the year are also mentioned in the Qur’an
So mentioning of something visible to human eye becomes scientific??

And verily in the heaven we have set mansions of the stars, and We have beautified it for beholders.
Another layman observation. Here author tells us that stars are used to beautify the heaven. Ofcourse from earth twinkling little stars will surely appear as decorative items. Wheres the science?

 

[cherylyoung]

I think in many cases if someone accepts that the science is correct in the Qur’an he\she will accept part or all of the Qur’an. Whether they revert to Islam or not lies with Allah, Most Great....

I agree. In many cases, a person may accept part of the Qur'an based on the "science" in it...and thus may decide to follow Islam. That person would be making the decision based on faulty logic. Unfortunately, many people do not understand the basics of logic. In those cases, the person can be blindsided by the pseudo logic of the argument.

Azizrasul, you said: "Muslims are acceptors of truth not blind to it, although I have met some Muslim who do blindly follow Islam parrot fashion as taught by some Imams, particularly from the Indian subcontinent. If ALL Muslims tried to understand Islam to whatever level they are capable of, then would be GREAT."

According to my observations and experience, Muslims perceive that they accept "truth." Muslims are very earnest, sincere and devout in their worship of what they perceive to be true. However, because a person perceives something to be true, or repeats it many, many times, what the person believes to be true, may, in actuality be only partially true or may be false.

Some people believe whatever they read or see. Whether a scripture has been authenticated by prophecy or science or a scholar, it may still not be true or from a divine source. Even if I were personally visited by an angelic looking creature who claimed to be Allah, who performed miracles, and who spoke poetry to me, I would not necessarily follow the philosophy. According to my logic, I choose to follow a leader or philosophy because of the merits of the philosophy.

Azizrasul, you said: "I repeat, how else would you authenticate any scripture. Would be happy to explore other ways of doing it. As a human, I would not accept any scripture even the Qur’an without some way of showing at least to an individual’s satisfaction that it is authentic. The Sikh scriptures so far has not done that. I asked what the Hindu scriptures say about the creation of the universe. The silence is ‘deafening’. "

Although I have read the Qur'an, I have not yet read the Sikh scriptures so I cannot comment about that. I could comment on the cosmology of other religions that I have read, but I doubt that you would be interested. In fact, it seems that you are not interested in creation at all. If seems that your focus is to persuade non-Muslims that the Qur'an is authentic.

You said: U can’t just expect someone to accept just because u say so. That’s certainly not logical. I totally agree.

You said: At least I have tried even if no one on this forum accepts it. I believe we will ALL stand before Allah on the Day of Judgement, when we will have to answer to Him. Again I totally agree.

I share your belief in the accountability of a Day of Judgment. For this reason, I take care in my behavior.

You said: I believe in Allah as the Creator. I may not use the name Allah as Muslims, Sikhs and some Christians do, but I believe in a divine creator who has a plan for humanity.

You said: "I was simply trying to prove that Allah is the author of the Qur’an thru science."

Although you did try to prove it, your logic is flawed.

Regardless of the multitude of ayah (verses) that you quote, the number of times you quote them, the supposed proof of science in the verses, the beauty of the rhyme and meter and the seal of approval of a cleric ......you cannot succeed to prove that the Qur'an is true or that the author of the Qur'an is Allah (actually I thought the author of the Qur'an was supposed to be the angel Jibril). It is not possible to use flawed logic to prove something to be true or authentic.

On the Day of Judgment, though, I sincerely believe that your earnest efforts will not go unnoticed. Your behavior, your worship and your feelings toward other people and objects of creation will, I believe, be noticed. These are my beliefs. However, I may be wrong. My beliefs may be entirely false. I cannot prove them.

 

[azizrasul]

Which earth like planets are u talking about?

Over the past decade other Earth like planets have been discovered in OTHER solar systems.

This is just a statement nothing scientific in it.

It was meant as a statement

Each one is travelling in an orbit with its own motion.”

This also a layman's observation. Standing in deserts of arabia anyone can see sun & moon travelling from one part of the sky to another.

Concentrate on the word ‘orbit’. We know that the Sun orbits the Milky Way galaxy. The Moon orbits the Earth. Thus the Qur’an tells us that Sun & Moon have orbits. That IS science.

He created the heavens and the earth in true (proportions): He coils (kawwara) the night upon the day and He coils (kawwara) the day upon the night."

Again an ordinary statement. Coiling of night & day is a common phenomenon visible to naked human eye. It doesnt requires to be a rocket scientist to see that night coils in day & day in night.

Concentrate on the word ‘coils. We know that the Earth rotates on its axis. That IS science.

He has subjected the sun and the moon (to His law):

Again plane statement.

It was meant as a statement

Each one follows a course for a time appointed And the sun runs his course for a period determined for him:

Extract from the Bible, the Qur’an and Science by Dr. Maurice Bucaille

“The Qur'an reminds us several times that: "(God) subjected the sun and the moon: each one runs its course to an appointed term."
This sentence is to be found in sura 13, verse 2. sura 31, verse 29; sura 35, verse 13 and sura 39, verse 5.
In addition to this, the idea of a settled place is associated with the concept of a destination place in sura 36, verse 38: "The Sun runs its course to a settled place. This is the decree of the All Mighty, the Full of Knowledge."
'Settled place' is the translation of the word mustaqarr and there can be no doubt that the idea of an exact place is attached to it.
How do these statements fare when compared with data established by modern science?
The Qur'an gives an end to the Sun for its evolution and a destination place. It also provides the Moon with a settled place. To understand the possible meanings of these statements, we must remember what modern knowledge has to say about the evolution of the stars in general and the Sun in particular, and (by extension) the celestial bodies that automatically followed its movement through space, among them the Moon.
The Sun is a star that is roughly 4½ billion years old, according to experts in astrophysics. It is possible to distinguish a stage in its evolution, as one can for all the stars. At present, the Sun is at an early stage, characterized by the transformation of hydrogen atoms into helium atoms. Theoretically, this present stage should last another 5½ billion years according to calculations that allow a total of 10 billion years for the duration of the primary stage in a star of this kind. It has already been shown, in the case of these other stars, that this stage gives way to a second period characterized by the completion of the transformation of hydrogen into helium, with the resulting expansion of its external layers and the cooling of the Sun. In the final stage, its light is greatly diminished and density considerably increased; this is to be observed in the type of star known as a 'white dwarf'.
The above dates are only of interest in as far as they give a rough estimate of the time factor involved, what is worth remembering and is really the main point of the above, is the notion of an evolution. Modern data allow us to predict that, in a few billion years, the conditions prevailing in the solar system will not be the same as they are today. Like other stars whose transformations have been recorded until they reached their final stage, it is possible to predict an end to the Sun.
The second verse quoted above (sur'a 36, verse 38) referred to the Sun running its course towards a place of its own.
Modern astronomy has been able to locate it exactly and has even given it a name, the Solar. Apex: the solar. system is indeed evolving in space towards a point situated in the Constellation of Hercules (alpha lyrae) whose exact location is firmly established; it is moving at a speed already ascertained at something in the region of 12 miles per. second.
All these astronomical data deserve to be mentioned in relation to the two verses from the Qur'an, since it is possible to state that they appear to agree perfectly with modern scientific data.”

No where in ur given verses i could find a verse that confirms this statement.

I didn’t understand what u mean here?

The constellations that appear in the night sky throughout the year are also mentioned in the Qur’an

So mentioning of something visible to human eye becomes scientific??

I just added this for completion not for science.

Could the Arabs in the desert see an early gaseous universe?
Could the Arabs in the desert see an expanding universe?
Could the Arabs in the desert see that all living things are made from water?

Is this not science?

Although I have read the Qur'an, I have not yet read the Sikh scriptures so I cannot comment about that. I could comment on the cosmology of other religions that I have read, but I doubt that you would be interested. In fact, it seems that you are not interested in creation at all. If seems that your focus is to persuade non-Muslims that the Qur'an is authentic

How do u no I would not be interested. Ask first before making a decision. Again u r incorrect in that I am not interested in creation. Look at the thread title. Yes my focus is to tell non Muslims that I believe that the Qur’an is authentic. I’m proud to do that. There are more interesting verses to come.

I share your belief in the accountability of a Day of Judgment. For this reason, I take care in my behavior.

I totally agree.

Although you did try to prove it, your logic is flawed.

You say that when u also say that your beliefs may be entirely FALSE? Strange.

(actually I thought the author of the Qur'an was supposed to be the angel Jibril)

Incorrect. The author is Allah, Most Great. He transmitted the words to Jibril (paece be upon him) who in turn transmitted it to the Prophet (peace be upon him).

On the Day of Judgment, though, I sincerely believe that your earnest efforts will not go unnoticed. Your behavior, your worship and your feelings toward other people and objects of creation will, I believe, be noticed. These are my beliefs. However, I may be wrong.

How would u know of my feelings of other people?

My beliefs may be entirely false. I cannot prove them.

Very very INTERESTING.

We are aware that the level of oxygen at high altitude is reduced, the further up we go. In fact mountaineers when climbing Mount Everest have to wear oxygen masks just before they reach the top.

Those whom Allah (in His plan) willeth to guide,- He openeth their breast to Islam; those whom He willeth to leave straying,- He maketh their breast close and constricted, as if they had to climb up to the skies: thus doth Allah (heap) the penalty on those who refuse to believe.
Qur’an - Surah al-An`aam (The Cattle) 6:125

 

[azizrasul]

And Allah has created every animal from water: of them there are some that creep on their bellies; some that walk on two legs; and some that walk on four. Allah creates what He wills for verily Allah has power over all things.
Qur’an - Surah an-Nur (The Light) 24:45

There is not an animal (that lives) on the earth, nor a being that flies on its wings, but (forms part of) communities like you. Nothing have we omitted from the Book (of Our decrees), and they (all) shall be gathered to their Lord in the end.
Qur’an - Surah al-An`aam (The Cattle) 6:38

Those who are kind and considerate to God’s creatures, God bestows His kindness and affection on them. Show kindness to the creatures on the earth so that God may be kind to you.
A saying of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)

Glory to Allah, Who created in pairs all things that the earth produces, as well as their own (human) kind and (other) things of which they have no knowledge.
Qur’an - Surah Yaseen 36:36 See also 16:10, 22:63 and 67:14.

(He is) the Creator of the heavens and the earth: He has made for you pairs from among yourselves, and pairs among cattle: by this means does He multiply you: there is nothing whatever like unto Him, and He is the One that hears and sees (all things).
Qur’an - Surah ash-Shura (Consultation) 42:11

 

[mystery2006]

Over the past decade other Earth like planets have been discovered in OTHER solar systems.
What do you mean by earth like planets? As far as i know there is no other planet on which life exists. Moreover the verse mentions 'similar in number' which means there must be just 7 other earth like planets. So give me a good scientific proof that only 7 other earth like planets exist.

Concentrate on the word ‘orbit’. We know that the Sun orbits the Milky Way galaxy. The Moon orbits the Earth. Thus the Qur’an tells us that Sun & Moon have orbits. That IS science.
Here Mr.Aziz wants us to believe that author of quran refers to actual orbits of sun & moon & my conclusion is that it refers to orbit of sun & moon across the sky as visible to human eye. To prove my point i will now point to another verse regarding moon
verse 2:189.
"They ask you about the new moon. Say: They indicate the periods for (various activities of) mankind, and for the pilgrimage."

In above verse people asked prophet mohommad about the moon and why it changes shape. This was a perfect opportunity for author of quran to say it is because of the rotation of the moon around the Earth and because the light of the moon is a reflection of the light of the sun. But author did not know the right answer. He instead said that the Moon is a giant clock/calendar in the sky created for the believers to know what time of the month it is and when they should perform their pilgrimage.

This is further confirmed by another verse which Mr Aziz himself mentioned:
036:040
It is not for the sun to overtake the moon, nor doth the night outstrip the day. They float each in an orbit.
Author of quran thought that the Sun and the Moon have similar orbits chasing each other in the sky while it is not allowed for the Sun to catch the Moon.

In another verse author of quran says that the Moon has its own light and then reiterates that it is a calendar in the sky, created for us humans to measure the time.
10:5
PICKTHAL: He it is Who appointed the sun a splendour and the moon a light, and measured for her stages, that ye might know the number of the years,............

Of course both these statements are false. The Moon has no light of its own nor it has anything to do with us humans. The moon has been there probably as long as the Earth has been around and that is 4.5 billion years while we humans appeared on this planet only 100,000 ago and will most likely disappear much sooner than the moon. It is ridiculous to assume that the celestial objects have been created for us humans. We are merely one species among the millions inhabiting this planet. Nothing is created for us. These ideas are childish and do not belong to this day and age of science.

This is further confirmed by a sahih hadith which is well accepted by all the muslims

Volume 6, Book 60, Number 326:
Narrated Abu Dharr:
Once I was with the Prophet in the mosque at the time of sunset. The Prophet said, "O Abu Dharr! Do you know where the sun sets?" I replied, "Allah and His Apostle know best." He said, "It goes and prostrates underneath (Allah's) Throne; and that is Allah's Statement:--

So again in this hadith also nothing scientific is mentioned. So Mr. Aziz above evidence is sufficent to conclude theres no science whatsoever in quran. Infact above statement prove the ignorance of author of quran to simple astronomical facts which makes it really diificult to believe that author was indeed god.

Concentrate on the word ‘coils. We know that the Earth rotates on its axis. That IS science.
Concentrating on word coils only confirms that its indeed a layman's observation. We know after day there comes night & after night there comes day & the sequence goes on. This is visible to any ordianry fellow. Whats scientific? And as i mentioned above nowhere quran mentions that earth rotates on its axis. Author of quran is not even aware of simple astronomical facts.

"The Sun runs its course to a settled place. This is the decree of the All Mighty, the Full of Knowledge."
Mr Aziz has given a very lenghty extract to prove that it refers to evolution of the sun. The verse just mentions that sun after completing its course in day from east to west goes on to settle in a place. This is inline with ignorance of the author of quran but whats the proof? The proof comes in form of a hadith which is well recognized by all the muslims. Here it is:

Volume 6, Book 60, Number 326:
Narrated Abu Dharr:
Once I was with the Prophet in the mosque at the time of sunset. The Prophet said, "O Abu Dharr! Do you know where the sun sets?" I replied, "Allah and His Apostle know best." He said, "It goes and prostrates underneath (Allah's) Throne; and that is Allah's Statement:--

This hadith makes it clear enough that settled place refers to underneath allah's throne where sun goes after sunset. So another scientific claim falls flat.

Could the Arabs in the desert see an early gaseous universe?
This was my question to you. It was quranic verse that mentioned cant unbelievers see. when i asked u to explain how was it possible to see big-bang u simply came with lame excuse that i m taking word 'see literally. But still neither u refuted my explaination nor did u came with any alternative.

 

[mystery2006]

Could the Arabs in the desert see an expanding universe?
This is another ignorant claim. The verse mentions vastness & not expansion.
Here is the relevant verse:
YUSUFALI: With power and skill did We construct the Firmament: for it is We Who create the vastness of pace.
PICKTHAL: We have built the heaven with might, and We it is Who make the vast extent (thereof).
SHAKIR: And the heaven, We raised it high with power, and most surely We are the makers of things ample.
So all the translation mention it as vast. This is no science because standing in deserts of arabia when one looks at sky he sees the vastness of sky extending from one end to another. Vastness of sky is visible to anyone & it doesnt amounts to any scientific proof.

Could the Arabs in the desert see that all living things are made from water?
Hmm good question but as far as i know first human-i-e Adam was created from dust. There was no water used in his creation & we all came from Adam only so where's the role of water in bringing humans up?

We are aware that the level of oxygen at high altitude is reduced, the further up we go. In fact mountaineers when climbing Mount Everest have to wear oxygen masks just before they reach the top.
He maketh their breast close and constricted, as if they had to climb up to the skies
Here again Mr.Aziz presents to us a superficial observation as if it contains some great knowledge. The fact that we feel constriction of our chest as we climb mountain is very superficial. Anyone who has ever climbed on mountain will know this that his chest constricts as he moves upwards. This constriction is caused by lack of oxygen but nowhere the author of the verse mentions this fact. He simply states that the chest will be constricted which is again an commonly observable phenomenon with no science in it. And another thing to look at is the author mentions constriction as an example as if people already knew how it feels when chest is constricted while climbing. So another claim goes down the drain.

And Allah has created every animal from water
You mean evolution or what?

There is not an animal (that lives) on the earth, nor a being that flies on its wings, but (forms part of) communities like you
Wrong there are many animals that dont live in communities like humans.

 

[azizrasul]

Moreover the verse mentions 'similar in number' which means there must be just 7 other earth like planets. So give me a good scientific proof that only 7 other earth like planets exist.

The number 7 is often given in the Qur’an to refer to ‘many’. If u do a Google search u might find something. Try this one http://www.scienceinschool.org/repository/docs/issue2exoplanet.pdf

my conclusion

To u ur interpretation, to me mine.

In above verse people asked prophet mohommad about the moon and why it changes shape. This was a perfect opportunity for author of quran

Whoa! Muhammad (peace be upon him) is NOT the author of the Qur’an. He was unlettered.

In another verse author of quran says that the Moon has its own light and then reiterates that it is a calendar in the sky, created for us humans to measure the time.

The Islamic calendar is a lunar calendar. After the 12 lunar months are over, the new Islamic calendar begins. What point r u making. Don’t quite understand.

Of course both these statements are false. The Moon has no light of its own nor it has anything to do with us humans. The moon has been there probably as long as the Earth has been around and that is 4.5 billion years while we humans appeared on this planet only 100,000 ago and will most likely disappear much sooner than the moon. It is ridiculous to assume that the celestial objects have been created for us humans. We are merely one species among the millions inhabiting this planet. Nothing is created for us. These ideas are childish and do not belong to this day and age of science.

Read the verse carefully. The verse is not saying that the Moon PRODUCES light rather that it gives the light (by the reflection from the Lamp, i.e. the Sun). U r running with arguments based on deliberate incorrect interpretations.

Blessed is He Who made constellations in the skies, and placed therein a Lamp (siraj) and a Moon giving light (nur);
Qur’an - Surah al-Furqan (The Criterion) 25:61

Concentrate on the word ‘coils. We know that the Earth rotates on its axis. That IS science.
Concentrating on word coils only confirms that its indeed a layman's observation. We know after day there comes night & after night there comes day & the sequence goes on. This is visible to any ordianry fellow. Whats scientific? And as i mentioned above nowhere quran mentions that earth rotates on its axis. Author of quran is not even aware of simple astronomical facts.

The word coils tells us that the Earth rotates on its axis, similar to a Sikh who coils his turban when he puts it on or off. You r looking at things on the basis of a person standing in the desert and fixing the interpretation that way rather than looking at the verses deeply enough. In other words u r in what I would call avoidance mode.

As far as the hadith is concerned, u r equating something that is being said in a metaphorical sense to something that is scientific? This is a common trick of the trade.

Could the Arabs in the desert see an early gaseous universe?
This was my question to you. It was quranic verse that mentioned cant unbelievers see. when i asked u to explain how was it possible to see big-bang u simply came with lame excuse that i m taking word 'see literally. But still neither u refuted my explaination nor did u came with any alternative.

The excuse wasn’t lame as u put it but showed ur lack of interpretation. U haven’t answered the questions as to how the beginning of the universe could have been known by the Arabs. As u won’t answer, I can only conclude u don’t have an answer. After all this is the heart of the topic. Similarly with the gaseous universe, etc. No answer. What’s wrong? Can’t think of an alternative interpretation to base your arguments on?

Could the Arabs in the desert see an expanding universe?
This is another ignorant claim. The verse mentions vastness & not expansion.

The translation I gave is a more accurate one. 2 of the translations u gave are over 70 years old and not necessarily stringent in it’s correct translation. Hence the number of SUPPOSED contradictions have come about simply because the original Arabic was not translated correctly, e.g. the verses relating to Mary (peace be upon her) and angel\angels. If u do a Google search, u will c what I mean.

Could the Arabs in the desert see that all living things are made from water?
Hmm good question but as far as i know first human-i-e Adam was created from dust. There was no water used in his creation & we all came from Adam only so where's the role of water in bringing humans up?

U are consistently wrong in ur statements. Adam (peace be upon him) was made from earth AND water. I will be looking into evolution shortly, insha-allah and will explain then. In the meantime u must accept that all living creatures are made from a sperm like substance of some sort which contains mostly water.

constricted

The chest feels constriction at extremely high altitudes. Can’t imagine anyone before 1952 climbed high peaks in Arabia which caused this. The mountains in Arabis aren’t that high.

So another claim goes down the drain.

That’s ur view, not mine.

Wrong there are many animals that dont live in communities like humans.

So how do they mate, if they didn’t live in some form of a community? Give examples of which animal u r talking about. If animals didn’t live in some form of a community, they wouldn’t survive.

The universe will come to an end at some time in the future.

The Day when We shall roll up the heavens as a recorder rolleth up a written scroll. As We began the first creation, We shall repeat it. (It is) a promise (binding) upon Us. Lo! We are to perform it.
Qur’an - Surah al-Anbiyaa (The Prophets) 21:104

The verse is referred to in scientific circles as the Collapsing Theory or the Big Crunch, where as a result of gravity, the universe will slow down and implode within itself in its centre and eventually re-explode i.e. an infinite sequence of Big Bangs and Big Crunches. Research in this area, by the scientific community, continues to be made.

 

[kds1980]

In Sura An-Naml (27:61) it is stated clearly:

Is not He (best) Who made the earth a fixed abode, and placed rivers in the folds thereof, and placed firm hills therein, and hath set a barrier between the two seas? Is there any Allah beside Allah? Nay, but most of them know not!

Here when the fixed abode is being mentioned it is the Earth relative to itself not the Earth as a celestial body in relation to the universe.

Here’s 2:22 that he mentions as a possible verse: -

Who hath appointed the earth a resting-place for you, and the sky a canopy;
and causeth water to pour down from the sky, thereby producing fruits as food for
you. And do not set up rivals to Allah when ye know (better).

Again the earth is being mentioned relative to us as a people not in relation to other celestial bodies.

AS i said earlier its a case of interpretatation.You are interpretting earth as relative to us while he is interpretting as celestial body.so why should i beleive muslims in this interpretation.They will surely interpret it in way that is more scientific

No amount of money can change scientific laws. If Bucaille WAS bribed (this is a pretty desperate view), were all the scientists bribed as well?

Maurice Bucaille - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Critics of Bucaille dismiss his work as rather crude Islamic propaganda. They claim that he uses "stretched or arbitrary" interpretations [2] and mistranslations, [3] and point to his close relationship with the Saudi royal family. Critics also point out that while Maurice Bucaille claims the Quran is perfect, it is doubtful whether or not he actually converted to Islam.[4] In his book The Qur'an and the Bible in the light of history and science,, Dr. William Campbell intents to refute Bucaille's interpretations. [1]

Although Dr. Bucaille was not very well-known in scientific circles, he has become quite famous in Islamic media. Muslim "Dawah" (religious propaganda) webpages and forums take his "discoveries" very seriously, and his books are quoted as proof that the Quran is God's word.[citation needed]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
He was very close to saudi royal family and he was not even well known in scientific world
and you want all of us to beleive that he was unbiased.

azizrasul ji you should know that just because 1 scientist or 1 science school say something that does not mean that whole scientific community has accepted it.DR. ian stevenson
has researched thousands of cases of reincarnation and his conclusion is that reincarnation is true.now does that mean whole scientific community or christians or muslim world has accepted reincarnation. the answer is no.so unless majority of scientists accept that there is science in quran you cannot say that scientific world has accepted that there is science in quran.

The ‘Big Bang’ theory is in the Qur’an. Look at my opening post. You ask why the Islamic scholars didn’t know that the earth was round, yet u say nothing about the fact that the Qur’an is saying something about the sequence of creation, the expanding universe, the early gaseous universe, etc. Talking about things that are not in the Qur’an is a sure sign on of avoiding what IS there.

look at the quote below.

(21:30)

YUSUFALI: Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before we clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?

PICKTHAL: Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens and the earth were of one piece, then We parted them, and we made every living thing of water? Will they not then believe?

SHAKIR: Do not those who disbelieve see that the heavens and the earth were closed up, but We have opened them; and We have made of water everything living, will they not then believe?

It is saying that earth and heavens were joined it is not mentioning about big bang theory

Origin of the Universe

There are a number of different themes in primitive creation mythologies. The idea that the Heavens and Earth was once a "single block" that was "broken in two" was one of them and was commonly know in the Middle East by the 7th century (in answer to the Qur'an's rhetorical question; yes, the non-believers did know). The Egyptians, for example, believed that the god of the heavens and the Earth goddess were once one and that another god "broke" them apart.

"According to an Egyptian legend, Geb [the earth god] married his sister Nut, the sky goddess, without the permission of the powerful Sun god Re. Re was so angry at Nut and Geb that he forced their father Shu, the god of air, to separate them. That is why the Earth is divided from the sky."

"According to the Sumerians, An was the sky god and symbolized heaven. ... The wife of An was Ki, the Earth."

"... when the heavens had been separated from the earth, when the earth had been delimited from the heavens ..." [Gilgamesh, Enkidu and the nether world]

So its quite clear that mythology that earth and heaven was one and god separated it was
already there in middle east.so quran mentioned the same mythology.now it is upto islamic scholars how they interpret it.

Btw if the above verse in quran is mentioning about bing bang then the following verse is also saying that sun sets in muddy pool

USC-MSA Compendium of Muslim Texts
YUSUFALI: Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: Near it he found a People: We said: "O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness."
PICKTHAL: Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout. We said: O Dhu'l-Qarneyn! Either punish or show them kindness.
SHAKIR: Until when he reached the place where the sun set, he found it going down into a black sea, and found by it a people. We said: O Zulqarnain! either give them a chastisement or do them a benefit.

Now from the verse above its quite clear that quran is saying that sun sets in muddy pool
so if you beleive that there is big bang theory in quran then you have to accept that above verse is scientific blunder.

 

[azizrasul]

so why should i beleive muslims in this interpretation.

U take whatever interpretation that satisfies u. No 1 is asking u 2 accept the Muslims interpretation if u don’t want 2.

Please note that the wikipedia web site is a collection of articles given by people. This does not mean anything. Look at the merits of the science itself is much better and make a personal decision whether u agree or not. Discuss the verses with scientists would pay better dividends. What the majority say or don’t say doesn’t make something true or false. It’s a personal thing. After all I could argue that Islam is the fastest rowing religion today. Hence Islam is striking some people around the world.

It is saying that earth and heavens were joined it is not mentioning about big bang theory

Of course it’s not mentioning the words big bang, but it does mention ‘rent them asunder’.

Strange that u should compare mythical and false gods with the One TRUE God. These mythical gods often boasted about the power they thought they had and came up with all sorts of things. Also they were not saying they were saying based on any evidence from science, which is what Alexander Friedman did in the early 1920’s. Over 3000 thousand years ago the King during the time of Ibrahim (peace be upon him) boasted he had power over life and death.

002.258 Bethink thee of him who had an argument with Abraham about his Lord,
because Allah had given him the kingdom; how, when Abraham said: My Lord is He
Who giveth life and causeth death, he answered: I give life and cause death. Abraham
said: Lo! Allah causeth the sun to rise in the East, so do thou cause it to come up from
the West. Thus was the disbeliever abashed. And Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk.

Now from the verse above its quite clear that quran is saying that sun sets in muddy pool so if you beleive that there is big bang theory in quran then you have to accept that above verse is scientific blunder.

Have a look at this from

Here is a brief commentary to the above verse as mentioned in the books of tafseer (exegesis of Qur’an):

“Till, when he reached the setting place of the sun…”, means that Zul Qarnain followed a route until he reached the furthest point that could be reached in the direction of the sun’s setting, which is the west of the earth. As for the idea of his reaching the place in the sky where the sun sets, this is something impossible, and the tales told by storytellers that he traveled so far to the west that the sun set behind him are not true at all. Most of those stories come from the myths of the People of the Book and the fabrications and lies of their heretics.

“he found it setting in a muddy spring…” means that he saw the sun as if it were setting in the ocean. This is something that everyone who goes to the coast or beach can see: it looks as if the sun is setting into the sea, but in fact it never leaves its path in which it is fixed. The muddy spring or hami’ah is derived from the word hama’ah which means ‘mud’.

In his commentary on the story referred to in the Qur’anic verse, the prominent Muslim scholar Sheikh Yusuf Al-Qaradawi, states the following:

“Indeed, the Qur’an is not a historical book where events are mentioned with their exact places and times. Rather, Allah mentions stories in the Qur’an so as to derive lessons from them both in present and future times.

Allah mentions that the story of Zul Qarnain in the Qur’an so as to derive lessons from it. The Qur’an itself did not mention who Zul Qarnain is. Also, there is no detailed explanation to his story. Where exactly did he go? To the east or to the west? There is not any mention of the people he went to. Added to that, there is no mention of names except for those of Zul Qarnain and Gog and Magog. The wisdom behind that is known to Almighty Allah Alone. But again, we are required to draw fruitful lessons from such stories, and we are not required to know every little detail about the minute incidents.”

Moreover, Dr. Muzammil H. Siddiqi, Director of the Islamic Society of Orange County, Garden Grove, California and former President of the Islamic Society of North America, gives the following counter argument:

“The author of the flyer refers to the story of an ancient ruler mentioned in the Qur’an in Surat Al-Kahf. The Qur’an says that this ruler named Zul Qarnain traveled to distant lands. He went westward to a distant land near the ocean and he saw the sun was setting there in a murky pond. The translation of the Qur’anic words are “Till, when he reached the setting place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring...” (Al-Kahf 18:86). The author of this flyer took this literally and objected, how could God say that the sun was setting in a murky pond? He considered this a “foolish and false statement” and a proof that the Qur’an was not the word of God and that Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) was not God’s Prophet.

In the New Testament, Jesus is reported to have said about the Queen of Sheba that she came from the ends of the earth (Matthew 12:42; Luke 11:31). Would the author also say that Jesus’ words were also foolish and false and would he reject him also? Obviously, we know that the Queen Sheba did not come from the ends of the earth. Yemen is not the end of the earth. The author would say that Jesus spoke metaphorically. We say the same thing, that in the story of Zul Qarnain, God spoke metaphorically.

The author claims that “the great Islamic scholars (such as Tabari, Zamakhshari, Baydawi, Jalalain, etc.) took this literally.” This is not correct. The fact is that most of the commentators of the Qur’an do not take it literally. Most of them explain that “the sun appeared to him as if it was setting in murky water.” The famous commentators of the Qur’an Jalalain say, “fi ra’y al-`ayn wa illa fahiya a’zamo min ad-dunya” meaning “it appeared to his own eyes otherwise the sun is bigger than the earth.”

The Qur’anic statement is clearly metaphorical, and this is the way it has been understood by most of the classical and modern commentators of the Qur’an.

The author claims that Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) also explained it in a literal sense. He quoted a hadith in which the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) is reported as saying, “Do you know, Abu Dharr, where this sun sets?” He answered, “God and His Messenger know better.” Muhammad said, “It sets in a spring of slimy water.” According to most authorities, this statement is not from Prophet Muhammad but it is attributed to Ka`b Al-Ahbar, a Jewish rabbi who converted to Islam and who reported this from the Torah, not from Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him).”

 

[azizrasul]

The Creation of Humankind

God creates early forms of humankind. Each new species is created anew whilst the previous species is destroyed (becomes extinct). This is a stark difference between Islam and the Evolutionists (Darwin’s[1] theory) who suggest a gradual continuous improvement, by natural selection through survival of the fittest, in man’s physical nature through millions of years. However the fossil record shows that each species remained the same throughout its existence and each new species came on the scene abruptly. In light of this evidence an alternative theory has been presented as a possible explanation of new species occurring suddenly in order to write of God just as the proponents of Darwin have done. The new theory claims that the sudden introduction of a new species could have come about by a mutation in a single individual from which its offspring would then inherit as such time as a new mutation re-occurred in the future. As with Darwin’s theory of evolution, this is also unproven.

“Verily, We created them and strengthened (referring to man’s physical constitution) all of them. And when We willed, We replaced them completely by people (qawm) who were of the same kind.”
Qur’an - Surah al-An`aam (The Cattle) 6:133

15. “O mankind! You are the ones who are in need of Allah. And Allah! He is the Absolute, the Owner of Praise.
16. If He wanted, he could destroy you and bring about a new creation.
17. And that is not hard for Allah.”
Qur’an - Surah Faatir (The Originator) 35:15-17

7. (God) is the One who created you, then fashioned you harmoniously and in due proportion;
8. Into whatsoever form He willed, He made you out of components.
Qur’an - Surah al-Infitaar (The Believers) 82:7-8 See also 87:2.

The Qur’an refers to man being created from a mixture of earth and water. Angels collected these components from Earth by God’s command. It was from this that the body of Adam (peace be upon him) the first (homo-sapien) man was created. The name Adam means ‘from the earth’.

“He (God) caused you to grow from the earth (ard).”
Qur’an - Surah Hud (The Prophet Hud) 11:61

This earth was moistened until it became like sticky clay. Adam (peace be upon him) is ‘modelled’ from this sticky clay.

Then ask them whether they are stronger in creation or those (others) whom We have created. Surely We created them of sticky clay (tiyn).
Qur’an - Surah as-Saffat (Those drawn up in Ranks) 37:11 See also 23:12.

The resulting body becomes dry like potter’s clay, which made a sound when it was tapped, and was further fashioned and completed.

(God) fashioned man from a (dry) clay, like pottery.
Qur’an - Surah ar-Rahman (The Beneficent) 55:14
And verily We created man, out of a dry sounding clay of malleable black mud (salsal).
Qur’an - Surah al-Hijr (The Rock) 15:26

“Allah created Adam from dust after He mixed the clay and left him for some time until it became sticky mud, after which Allah shaped him. After that Allah left him till it became like potter's clay.”
A saying of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) - Sahih al-Bukhari

Allah it is Who appointed for you the earth for a dwelling-place and the sky for a canopy, and fashioned you and perfected your shapes, and hath provided you with good things. Such is Allah, your Lord. Then blessed be Allah, the Lord of all Creation!
Qur’an - Surah al-Ghaafir (The Forgiver) 40:

God asks the angel; Gabriel (peace be upon him) to breathe into Adam (peace be upon him) and he came to life. Adam (peace be upon him) sneezes and his first words were al-humdu lillah (Praise be to God).

7. Who made good everything that He has created, and He began the creation of man from clay (tiyn).
8. And made his progeny (nasl) from a quintessence of the nature of a fluid despised (due to the fact that the liquid passes through the urinary tract).
9. But He fashioned him in due proportion, and breathed into him something of His Spirit (Gabriel). And He gave you (the faculties of) hearing and sight and feeling (and understanding): little thanks do ye give!
Qur’an - Surah as-Sajda (The Prostration) 32:7-9 See also 16:4, 18:37 and 22:5.

28. When thy Lord said to the angels: I am going to fashion a man (Adam) from clay, from moulded mud;
29. When I have harmoniously fashioned him (in due proportion) and breathed into him of My Spirit (Gabriel), …
Qur’an - Surah al-Hijr (The Rock) 15:28-9

[1]Charles Robert Darwin (1809 - 1882) an English naturalist conceived in 1838 the theory that species developed naturally over time. This proposition came as a result of Darwin’s five year (1831 - 1836) voyage on the ship HMS Beagle notably to the Galápagos Islands. His book ‘On the Origin of Species’ published in 1859 established the introduction to the idea of evolution.

 

[Dimitri]

I hvn't gone through the whole thread. here is some references to creation in Guru Granth Saheb.

There are earts beyond earths, beyond earths (AGGS P3)
There are skies above skies and earths below earths. Human mind gets tired of search. All knowledge simply points to the one fact that there is no end of vastness (AGGS P5)
There are numerous suns, moons and other galaxies (AGGS P7)
Many millions are the winds, waters and fires. Many millions are the countries and realms of the universe. many millions are the moons and suns. many millons are the fields of creation and the galaxies. many millions are the skies and the solar systems (AGGS P276)
God has established his stocks and stores in Many Worlds. He has replenished them once and for all so that the supplies never run out (AGGS p7).
I see none as great a giver as you. O great giver you give in charity to the beings of all the continents, worlds, solar systems, nether regions and universes (AGGS P549)
There are worlds upon worlds of His Creation. As He commands so they exist. He watches over all, and contemplating the creation, he rejoices. o Nanak, to describe thie is as hard as steel (AGGS P8)

Whatever is in the Universe is also in the matter. Only researchers understand this. P695

 

[azizrasul]

Thanks for that Dimitri, at last the information I have been looking for. I will examine it in detail and repost my thoughts on it. Jazakullah Kahir.

 

[azizrasul]

When was the SGGS written and by whom? Was the Qur’an used as part of the compilation?

Does anyone know when was the Hindi scriptures were written and by whom? What is the name of the Hindu scriptures? Are there any verses within it that tells us how the universe was created?

 

[spnadmin]

Azzisrasul ji

You can find these answers on your own with relatively little effort. Some of them have already been addressed earlier in the thread.

 

[azizrasul]

When was the SGGS written and by whom? Was the Qur’an used as part of the compilation?

Does anyone know when was the Hindi scriptures were written and by whom? What is the name of the Hindu scriptures? Are there any verses within it that tells us how the universe was created?

Most of the questions have not been answered, that's why I'm asking.