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Islam Creation in Islam

Discussion in 'Interfaith Dialogues' started by azizrasul, Aug 3, 2007.

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  1. azizrasul

    azizrasul
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    Salaamu Aleykum Everyone,

    This is my first post.

    I emanate from Pakistan but live in the UK. I'm currently an IT consultant but was originally an Electronic Engineer.

    I wanted to begin my life here with the Islamic view of how the universe was created by extracting passages from my book called 'Islam - Pure and Simple' which I'm happy to send upon request.

    The Creation of the Universe


    An extremely long time ago, the only thing that existed was God[1] (the Creator). There was no universe. God begins the creation of the universe from a single particle, which is split apart. The scientific[2] world, refer to this as the “Big Bang Theory”[3], where an energy source created a particle called the primary nebula or primeval atom. The tiny particle has also been referred to as the cosmic egg.

    The following verse is the only Qur’anic verse, which refers to the moment of creation of the universe. It is interesting that God talks about the root ingredients at the moment of creation and also that of water as a root ingredient of the creation of all living creatures. This is indeed a verse dealing with God’s ability and power to create.

    “Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth (meaning the universe) were joined together (ratq) in one piece, then We (meaning God, the Creator) rent them asunder (fataqa) and We got every living thing out of water. Will they then not believe?”
    Qur’an - Surah al-Anbiyaa (The Prophets) 21:30 See also 24:45.

    [1] Moses (peace be upon him) in Hebrew called Him Eloha, Jesus (peace be upon him) in Aramaic called Him Allaha and Muhammad (peace be upon him) in Arabic called Him Allah. The name Allah is a contraction of the Arabic words ‘Al’ and ‘lah’ meaning The God. The same applies to the names Eloha and Allaha.


    [2] Refer to the discoveries of people such as Alexander A. Friedmann (1888 -1925), Monsignor George Henri Lemaitre (1894 -1966), Edwin Powell Hubble (1889 -1953), George A. Gamow (1904 - 1968), Arno A. Penzias (1933 -), Robert Wilson (1936 -), Robert H. Dicke (1916 - 1997), Phillip James E. Peebles (1935 -), etc.


    [3] Coined by Fred Hoyle (1915 – 2001) who was not a supporter of the Big Bang theory and called it as a casual remark in 1950.
     
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  3. Sworn_Avenger

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    oops you must have got the wrong website, this is SIKH PHILOSOPHY.

    go to alJazeera Magazine
     
  4. Sworn_Avenger

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  5. Astroboy

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    Looks to me that Islam influenced Hinduism and that's why the same concept appears in the oldest vedic literature.
     
  6. Sworn_Avenger

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    Hinduism is the oldest religion. Islam has influenced hinduism on nothing. what he has written, can be read in The old testament, its nothing new, your religion did not see this, u were influenced by judaism
     
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  7. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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  8. Sworn_Avenger

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    Women in Sikhism face different but worse fate. Sikh women in the UK,CANADA,AUSTRALIA,AMERICA have been influenced by the western ways, the disresepct level is crazy, their dress sense is shocking!!! so sikh girls...need to find their roots and respect again. at least where im from i cant judge to you in malaysia.
     
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  9. vijaydeep Singh

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    Gurfateh

    Well das had a Muslim girl freind.She would have been killed along with her family had they went ahead to mary her off to das after converting her to Sikhism.

    So thats the way Women enjoy the liberty over there.

    Coming to verse in Holy Kuran.It is our God Akal(Bi Fani or undistructable) and Alaih(un absorbalbe(like other 4 or 5 elements of creation go back to energy)) and Allah(whose bounty and power are never emptied).

    That God only did send the Holy verse in form of Suras made up of Ayats to Rasol Akran Sal Al Lahe Salle Wa Wassalam.

    As that God wants so do muslim work and so do other work as not leafe can flutter without will fo that God.Our deeds are predifended and alterd by same on the iron plates.

    God is nur or visible form of energy(Amit Auj) and that energy is invisible also.

    That energy does manifest in form of matter.

    By the way had God been creator and not the manfester of the self,the the place where firt mater was created by God,energy which God used to create atom,the place where God stood to create,who created that all?

    Good thing ben posted but we are not the unbelivers.Rather what we belive is actualy waht god let us belive.
     
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  10. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    I'd like to ask you some questions on the creation of Islam in this context: Are you familiar with the history behind the succession of the 12 Imams?
    First of all, may I ask which sect you belong to. Reason why I am asking is because it is pointless to further this discussion if my answers given don't favour your particular beliefs. Because I understand that Islam has very many sects and each has its cultural and historical difference from the other sects.

    Most of the bloodshed between the sects within Islam has also got to do with differences in places of worship and method of worship and whose is the correct version of the Quran. This bloodshed, I believe, is only in non-South East Asian countries because in Malaysia, such violence is unheard of.
    It could be because most muslims (98%) are sunnis.
     
  11. vijaydeep Singh

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    Gurfateh
    Well if das has been asked about it.


    Dear Friend(Das does not know weather begum is a name or the attribute of sorrow less and Begum in our land means better half but in Sikhism it for some high things).

    anyway das is aware that about the 4th Imama there is some problems with Shi's and Sunnis and as per interpetaion of Holy Kuran there are 72 formals and further more sub divisions of code which is basically one Islamic code.

    Das belongs to the 73rd sect of Islam called Gurmat or what people say Sikhism.But das(Bande in farsi) has good numbers of brethern from Wahabis,Tablighis,Qadaris,Shi-as and Sunnis freternity and das parys to Allah for unity of all Momins.Amin.
     
  12. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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    Can you throw some light on the differences of opinion of the 4th Imam between Sunni and Sh'ia sect?
    Are you saying that you are a sikh by name and a follower of islam in principle? If not, then what are you saying?
    If you cannot clarify in simple words, then I guess I can't take anything you say seriously.
     
  13. vijaydeep Singh

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    Gurfateh

    3 Imams are justified by Sunnis while not by Shias.

    Coming to das's thing.

    Das is Sikh by Faith(born as a Hindu) but Sikhism talks to total surrender(Saran) to God.Surreder means Islam also and one who surrernders the slef to Allah and say all deeds and controls is of Allah and no self ego left is a true Sikh.

    Islam anyway talks surrender to Allah and one who does it is a Muslim(Term derived from Islam only in Arebic).

    So being Sikh makes das as a Muslim.

    Sorry to put things in complex way as das's presentation skills are not very good.
     
  14. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    Azizrasul,

    So where does the Splitting of the Moon and
    Cat's Eye Nebula come in "Creation in Islam"?
     
  15. azizrasul

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    So why is there an Interfaith section on this website?

    1. Islam is the oldest religion as the first homosapien Adam (peace be upon him) was a Muslim.

    2. Hinduism is FAR removed from Islam. Hence I would not have thought that either of these religions have influenced the other.

    3. Judaism was the Islam of that time i.e. submitting your will to the One God. The Torah and the Qur'an (and other scriptures) were given by Allah. However there is no verse in the corrupted version of the Torah of today that tells us of how the universe began. If there is, I'd like to know about it. In fact if there are any other scriptures that tell us how the universe began, post it. I would be interested.

    I'm neither Sunni or Shia. These terms were invented after the time of Muhammad (peace be upon him).
     
    #14 azizrasul, Aug 3, 2007
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2007
  16. Sworn_Avenger

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    1. You cant come on a sikh website and disrespect it

    2. Jews were the first to write of adam and eve. True or False!

    your religion wrote it over 500 years AD. True or false.

    Christian and jews believe in adam and eve so what makes it a muslim thing. read it properly and u'll see adam and eve had no religion at that time. Adam werent circumsized was he, if he was who done it for him Eve!!!

    so no islam is not the oldest religion so sit bak and stfu
     
  17. Sworn_Avenger

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    ok ok, Ex. 20:11

    Written roughly around 1400BC - 400BC so please tel me the Qu'ran was writted before then it would make my day.
    They say laughing is good for you
     
  18. vijaydeep Singh

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    Gurfateh

    Brother Aziz,

    Asalaam Al Qum,

    There are some Muslims who say that this version of Holy Kuran is only 1/3rd.Anyway das is more with you that what we have is OK.

    We also have faith that Gurmat is from Baba Adam Ahle Sala.

    have a look.

    ang 1165

    ਸਤਰਿ ਸੈਇ ਸਲਾਰ ਹੈ ਜਾ ਕੇ
    सतरि सैइ सलार है जा के ॥
    Saṯar sai­ė salār hai jā kė.
    He has 7,000 commanders,


    ਸਵਾ ਲਾਖੁ ਪੈਕਾਬਰ ਤਾ ਕੇ
    सवा लाखु पैकाबर ता के ॥
    Savā lākẖ paikābar ṯā kė.
    and hundreds of thousands of prophets;


    ਸੇਖ ਜੁ ਕਹੀਅਹਿ ਕੋਟਿ ਅਠਾਸੀ
    सेख जु कहीअहि कोटि अठासी ॥
    Sėkẖ jo kahī­ahi kot aṯẖāsī.
    He is said to have 88,000,000 shaykhs,


    ਛਪਨ ਕੋਟਿ ਜਾ ਕੇ ਖੇਲ ਖਾਸੀ ॥੧॥
    छपन कोटि जा के खेल खासी ॥१॥
    Cẖẖapan kot jā kė kẖėl kẖāsī. ||1||
    and 56,000,000 attendants. ||1||


    ਮੋ ਗਰੀਬ ਕੀ ਕੋ ਗੁਜਰਾਵੈ
    मो गरीब की को गुजरावै ॥
    Mo garīb kī ko gujrāvai.
    I am meek and poor - what chance do I have of being heard there?


    ਮਜਲਸਿ ਦੂਰਿ ਮਹਲੁ ਕੋ ਪਾਵੈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ
    मजलसि दूरि महलु को पावै ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
    Majlas ḏūr mahal ko pāvai. ||1|| rahā­o.
    His Court is so far away; only a rare few attain the Mansion of His Presence. ||1||Pause||


    ਤੇਤੀਸ ਕਰੋੜੀ ਹੈ ਖੇਲ ਖਾਨਾ
    तेतीस करोड़ी है खेल खाना ॥
    Ŧėṯīs karoṛī hai kẖėl kẖānā.
    He has 33,000,000 play-houses.


    ਚਉਰਾਸੀ ਲਖ ਫਿਰੈ ਦਿਵਾਨਾਂ
    चउरासी लख फिरै दिवानां ॥
    Cẖa­urāsī lakẖ firai ḏivānāʼn.
    His beings wander insanely through 8.4 million incarnations.


    ਬਾਬਾ ਆਦਮ ਕਉ ਕਿਛੁ ਨਦਰਿ ਦਿਖਾਈ
    बाबा आदम कउ किछु नदरि दिखाई ॥
    Bābā āḏam ka­o kicẖẖ naḏar ḏikẖā­ī.
    He bestowed His Grace on Adam, the father of mankind,


    ਉਨਿ ਭੀ ਭਿਸਤਿ ਘਨੇਰੀ ਪਾਈ ॥੨॥
    उनि भी भिसति घनेरी पाई ॥२॥
    Un bẖī bẖisaṯ gẖanėrī pā­ī. ||2||
    who then lived in paradise for a long time. ||2||


    ਦਿਲ ਖਲਹਲੁ ਜਾ ਕੈ ਜਰਦ ਰੂ ਬਾਨੀ
    दिल खलहलु जा कै जरद रू बानी ॥
    Ḏil kẖalhal jā kai jaraḏ rū bānī.
    Pale are the faces of those whose hearts are disturbed.


    ਛੋਡਿ ਕਤੇਬ ਕਰੈ ਸੈਤਾਨੀ
    छोडि कतेब करै सैतानी ॥
    Cẖẖod kaṯėb karai saiṯānī.
    They have forsaken their Bible, and practice Satanic evil.


    ਦੁਨੀਆ ਦੋਸੁ ਰੋਸੁ ਹੈ ਲੋਈ
    दुनीआ दोसु रोसु है लोई ॥
    Ḏunī­ā ḏos ros hai lo­ī.
    One who blames the world, and is angry with people,


    ਅਪਨਾ ਕੀਆ ਪਾਵੈ ਸੋਈ ॥੩॥
    अपना कीआ पावै सोई ॥३॥
    Apnā kī­ā pāvai so­ī. ||3||
    shall receive the fruits of his own actions. ||3||


    ਤੁਮ ਦਾਤੇ ਹਮ ਸਦਾ ਭਿਖਾਰੀ
    तुम दाते हम सदा भिखारी ॥
    Ŧum ḏāṯė ham saḏā bẖikẖārī.
    You are the Great Giver, O Lord; I am forever a beggar at Your Door.


    ਦੇਉ ਜਬਾਬੁ ਹੋਇ ਬਜਗਾਰੀ
    देउ जबाबु होइ बजगारी ॥
    Ḏė­o jabāb ho­ė bajgārī.
    If I were to deny You, then I would be a wretched sinner.


    ਦਾਸੁ ਕਬੀਰੁ ਤੇਰੀ ਪਨਹ ਸਮਾਨਾਂ
    दासु कबीरु तेरी पनह समानां ॥
    Ḏās Kabīr ṯėrī panah samānāʼn.
    Slave Kabeer has entered Your Shelter.


    ਭਿਸਤੁ ਨਜੀਕਿ ਰਾਖੁ ਰਹਮਾਨਾ ॥੪॥੭॥੧੫॥
    भिसतु नजीकि राखु रहमाना ॥४॥७॥१५॥
    Bẖisaṯ najīk rākẖ rehmānā. ||4||7||15||
    Keep me near You, O Merciful Lord God - that is heaven for me. ||4||7||15||


    Also try to read the tranlitration for Islamic terms.

    Fact is both we and you Ie Sikhs and Muslim worship same God and faith is same Sanatan(Akali or eternal faith called Islam or Gurmat.

    Just for the sake of fundamentalists ego people tend to fight that yours is Good or mine is good.
     
  19. azizrasul

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    How did I do that?



    Not a valid question. TRUE scripture comes from God not people. It was God who wrote the first scripture believed to be given to Ibrahim (peace be upon him). In case you don’t know, Ibrahim (peace be upon him) is a direct ancestor of Muhammad (peace be upon him) from the male line.


    False. The Qur’an was revealed about 1400 years ago.



    Islam began at the time of Adam (peace be upon him). He was the first Muslim and the first Prophet and the first homosapien man. Huwwa (or Eve as you called her) was the first Muslim homosapien woman. Hence you would expect Jews\Christians to believe in Adam & Huwwa as the prophets Moses\Jesus (peace be upon them) were the Muslim prophets at there times. So there is no contradictions as you seem to be seeing them.



    Who’s being disrespectful now? You seem to object to non Sikhs entering this forum! If the forum moderators don’t want me to participate, I’m happy to leave.

    The order in which the Muslim prophets came and received scripture from God is as follows: -


    Prophets of Allah, as Mentioned in the Qur’an

    Adam (first prophet of Islam)
    Idris (Enoch)
    Nuh (Noah)
    Hud (Heber - great great grandson of Nuh)
    Salih (Shelah)
    Ibrahim (Abraham)
    [Received the Souhouf (the Scrolls) in Hebrew]
    Isma’il (Ishmael – eldest son of Ibrahim)
    Is’haq (Isaac – youngest son of Ibrahim)
    Lut (Lot – nephew of Ibrahim)
    Ya’qub (Jacob – son of Is’haq)
    Yusuf (Joseph – second youngest son of Ya’qub)
    Shu’aib (Jethro)
    Ayub (Job)
    Musa (Moses)
    [Received the Taurat (the Torah or the Law) & the Ten Commandments both in Hebrew]
    Harun (Aaron – elder brother of Musa)
    Dhu’l-kifl (Ezekiel)
    Dawud (David)
    [Received the Zaboor (the Psalms) in Hebrew]
    Suliman (Solomon – son of Dawud)
    Ilias (Elias)
    Al-Yasa (Elisha)
    Yunus (Jonah)
    Zakariyah (Zechariah)
    Yahya (John – son of Zakariyah)
    Isa (Jesus – son of Mary)
    [Received the Injil, in Aramaic]
    Muhammad (the Seal of the Prophets)
    [Received the Qur’an, in Arabic]
    (Peace and Allah’s blessings be upon them all)



    Never heard that before. What evidence do you have for that?



    Vijaydeep Singh where does this come from. Is this from the Sikh scriptures? If so, can you give me a reference or a web page giving only the English version? Thanks.
     
  20. Astroboy

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  21. azizrasul

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    Any thoughts on the Qur'anic verse dealing with the creation of the universe in the opening post?
     
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