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General Whos Destroying Sikhi?

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by SikhGiani, Feb 24, 2012.

  1. SikhGiani

    SikhGiani
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    1.Leaders-With makker sarna badal who needs enimes. Almost all are big leaders have been found to be corrupt and misusing Gurdwara funds.

    2.Granthis- Not prepared with enough education to teach. Most granthes arent teaching the young Sikhs punjabi Gurbani and katha keertan.

    3. So called Satguru Ram Singh Chair setup at Guru Nanak University. Do i need to say more.

    4. Castes- This deisase even though our faith is against this this problem has not gone away.

    5.Sects- Like Radhaswami, Namdhari and Jootha are converting Sikhs to there faith. If we count all the Sikhs who go to these deras then how many less Sikhs are there in punjab who accully believe in Guru Sahib and dont belong to these groups. Thousands of deras distorting Sikhi and elevating themselves equal to Guru Maharaj Ji.

    6. Sikhs dont teach about there faith to people for the benefit as Guru Nanak Sahib taught people of other faith to believe in God. Gurdwaras are only built because of the Sikh population

    7. Not enough teaching instutions- Little has been done to open Sikh Schools in every town to pass on the teaching of the Gurus.

    8. No unity among ourselves- A cartoon of Muhammad is drawn muslims from every part of the world are upset meanwhile Beadbi of Guru Granth Sahib is done over and over again. The Genocide of 1984 and we still dont have justice and the culprits are free on the street.

    9. Sant Baba- The corrupt babas have used the public for money and there desires. Saying they have baptized millions of people even though most of the punjab are baptied. If the corrupt self proclamied Sants are right all of punjab would be Amritdhari.

    I hope each of us will try to correct these problems.
     
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  3. Ambarsaria

    Ambarsaria Canada
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    SikhGiani ji unfortunately the answer is "All of the above".

    The only part you perhaps have not flagged is the external influence peddlers how such have created a space of respect and resources for all that ails or is destroying Sikhism. No question you can only be corrupted if you are corruptible. For example your fisrt point in the list,

    Sikhism needs a well thought out action plan with Objectives and timelines. The young and new generation perhaps will relate to it more and it will be more achievable.

    I will respond later to see how your list can be made into an action plan.

    Sat Sri Akal and a great post.
     
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  4. Luckysingh

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    These are fantastic but sadly all very true points.

    A whole generation (I've seen) of sikhs has passed and they have all addressed, complained and argued regarding these issues.
    BUT, nothing has actually been done.

    We cannot just do the same, and let these issues slip away through our very fingers yet again.

    For the sake of the youth, young and future of sikhi, we MUST ACTION, and we shouldn't wait for the next guy to make the first move.
    WE MUST ALL ACT.

    To start on an action plan, is itself a very positive step.
    Somehow we also need to focus on exposing this awareness on a much larger scale.

    Deep down, I hope that I could look back at the above list of factors in a few years and confidently say NOT APPLICABLE to most, if not all of them.

    Sat kartar
    Lucky Singh
     
  5. Kamala

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    No one destroyed it, people just don't know how to be a proper Sikh, the granthis are not wrong.
     
  6. Luckysingh

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    Too many chiefs not enough indians, comes to mind
     
  7. Kanwaljit Singh

    Kanwaljit Singh India
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    Sikhi is indestructible, there are just people misleading people.
     
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  8. prakash.s.bagga

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    Unless we are absolute clear about Basic concepts as given in SGGS .No change can take place.There seems to be no Locus Standi in real understanding of SGGS .
    Sikh philosophy is trapped by Hindu Philosophy in India whereas Abroad ithe philosophy is trapped by the concept of Abraham GOD.
    The Basic concept of the word GURoo is complelty missing.
    So where is the scope of improvement .Nevetheless we should always be hopeful as Guroo will set everthing in own ways.
    Prakash.S.Bagga
     
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  9. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    Interesting to see replies from so many different viewpoints

    the pragmatic , the realistic, the irrelevant, those that do not accept and the well intentioned but confusing

    in no particular order of course lol
     
    #8 Harry Haller, Feb 24, 2012
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2012
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  10. prakash.s.bagga

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    KAMALA Ji,
    You can give a look at quote from Geeta as

    "YADA YADA DHARMASYA GLAANI BHAWATI.......

    Who makes the Dharama Corrupt...It is people only

    Prakash.s.Bagga
     
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  11. navneetk

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    But sadly in case of sikhs only sikhs are responsible for everything and all the mess that have been created. Members on this forum are talking anti gurmat philosophical things. They do not believe, here on this forum, in simran, in naam, in reincarnation , in Karma and other concepts. Even bigwigs like gyani ji are talking their views only and not gurbani or gurmat. Those sikhs who do not believe in simran etc., are doing great harm to sikhi or sikhism. This forum needs thorough cleansing...
     
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  12. BaljinderS

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    One thing that keeps me coming back to SPN is that everything is backed up with references. There is no blind preaching. We are all intelligent beings (some more than others). In a nutshell people can make up their own mind, most people are lazy so they go with who is marketing the message better than others.
     
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  13. Annie

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    Yes, exactly! Also many people are taught from an early age to not question authority. Sometimes they don't even know WHY they do the things they do, or believe what they believe. Sometimes it is easier to hear a man than it is to hear Waheguru.
     
  14. prakash.s.bagga

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    I doubt if this is a Forum for Preaching.I think this is for sharing the views and this way
    evolve our own understanding to a better line of understanding.by reading the diversed views.
    Prakash.s.Bagga
     
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  15. Ambarsaria

    Ambarsaria Canada
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    navneetk ji thanks for your post.

    You have been bitten by the bug of introspection to the extreme. Your contribution to solutions can be considerd non exisiting with non-specific allegations. Please continue to vote for BJP as they will solve all of Sikhi's problems along with RSS as you search inside your cocoon. Perfectly passified Sikh with "Self Doubt" pacifier. Feels great to be down and out and drag others down into a pile of abiding mush.

    Please please you can do better. Guru Arjan Dev ji, Guru Teg Bahadar ji, Guru Gobind Singh ji and countless many young and old who suffered so that you may be born one day are eternally grateful for you thanklessness.:}--}:. People totally forget that the reason you, I and many others are here is in part related to sacrifices of many of Sikhism before.

    I profusely thank all before. The path forward is sacrifice too in different ways and not just fault finding in self, others and becoming despondent.

    Sat Sri Akal.
     
    #14 Ambarsaria, Feb 24, 2012
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2012
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  16. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh United States
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    Similar to words such as "Black MONEY...Corruption money..kala dhan..?? what nonsense.
    The Money is perfectly Legit and Legal tender..its the HUMAN that is BLACK...his HEART is BLACK. Thats why Gurbani never talks about Kala Dhan...it never fails to mention the HUMANS who grab PRAYA HAKK as PORK eaters and BEEF EATERS. The MONEY in their Bank Accounts is LEGAL TENDER and no one can differentiate a kala dhan 500 RS Note found in the pocket of a corrupt police Inspector at a Road Block....from a 500 RS NOTE earned by a Honest Farmer by selling his homegrown moolian at the market ?? BOTH "Notes" carry the same Baldy Gandhi...and the words Reserve Bank of India....

    Same situation in whos destroying sikhi....its so easy to spot who...and why ??
     
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  17. Kanwaljit Singh

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    Reincarnation will always be a concept and none can do anything about it. That is the point we are trying to make. You can't change what you are coming from. You can't change where you will be going. You can only hope to live this life in a Gurmukh way.

    And you really think you can cleanse the forum? I will be happy to watch (and help if I can) where you take it. I am busy for next few 'lives' cleaning my mind.
     
  18. Luckysingh

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    Navneetk ji

    To feel that this forum is anti gurmat, and participating in destroying sikhi due to some views is a little crazy to say the least.
    It's like saying that a computer anti-virus program is no good as it contains a virus!

    There are many different views, yes I agree, there are also many different personalities, characters,styles of portraying etc...etc..
    But at the end we all want to get to where Guruji accepts and we are accepted for eternity.

    Each one of us is on our own Captain of a ship on this huge world ocean.There are billions of ships all on the same ocean.
    The goal is mukhti, liberation, merge with the true lord or even just wait and see where our GPS guide is going to take us(destination).
    The destination can't be physically located on a map, but we know we will feel it when it happens. (I use the word when, although at destination, there most likely will be no time concept)
    The GPS guide ( analagous to SGGS) is what can take us all to the same destination as long as we follow and act the instructions.
    Each ship has a different size, colour,shape etc.. and some carry heavy loads like reincarnation,karma, simran, meditation.. etc...Some will not carry the baggage but trust the guide completely.
    Along the way some will encounter storms, rocks, icebergs and other obstacles. Just like we encounter in life, it is during these encounters that the ones with complete faith will trust the guide and veer around the obstacles BUT some will decide to call and take rescue help from overhead aircraft disguised as fake baba's, sikh sects. Thus they have abandoned their trust in the original guide.
    Do they get to the destination?? We can't say, we will never know, however they have NO GUARANTEE as they have abandoned the original guide.

    But the true devotees will persevere and stick with their GPS guide or SGGS.
    Having the different baggage/ beliefs( as mentioned above) will NOT make any ship go faster, or give it a short/fast route.
    At the end, all that matters is that the captain(individual) arrives at the destination, regardless of any baggage. The final passport control will just consider and judge the individual captain NOT their baggage/load or the value of the ship.

    So NavneetK, I think we should focus on keeping fellow ships away from overhead rescue rather than trying to give them/ take off extra loads/baggage. It's also important to not follow or be followed by another captain's ship as there is again NO guarantee who is going to the correct destination, as explained we are NOT following our original GPS guide, the Guru Granth Sahib.


    I'm sorry if I have used anything out of context. I was trying to demonstrate the Sri Guru Granth Sahib as the ultimate guide. I clearly am not saying it is a tomtom or garmin or something replacable. We all know of the radhasoami, naamdhari, AKJ etc...etc....--I am clearly not saying anything ANTI about them, just that a person doesn't need them if they keep strong faith in their 'original guide'

    Bul chuk marf

    Sat kartar
    LuckySingh
     
  19. prakash.s.bagga

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    LUCKYSINGH Ji,

    I would slightly differ with your views to refer SGGS as GPS.
    If you look at a quote from SGGS ji as
    #GuRu Jahaju,Khewatu GuRoo,GuR Binu Taraya na Koe#pp104

    So accordingly we as individual are travellers only and we need to have the complete knowledge about the JAHAJ we have to board in to reach our correct destination.
    And this knowledge can be provided by GuRoo only. That is why we need Such a GuRoo as guide .

    Prakash.S.Bagga
     
  20. Annie

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    The world is full of people of all spiritual "ages." Some are like self centered children, some are in different stages growth, and only a few are old and wise. How would an old and wise person react to a troublesome child? Would he angrily point his finger and blame the child... or would he patiently teach?
     
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  21. BaljinderS

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    It all depends on if the child/student is willing to learn. some children are just stubborn by nature and it takes lot more work to teach them..

    I think we can safely assume we are not talking about children here. There are some things that can be taught and there are a lot things you learn from interactions with others (sangat),media, etc etc.
    Its easy to mould a child to your thinking but not an teenager or an adult :singhsippingcoffee:
     
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