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Sikhism What is the meaning of Realization of God ?

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by hpsp, Jan 12, 2016.

  1. hpsp

    hpsp
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    This question has bothered me. I do not appreciate the meaning of this term as per Sikh philosophy. It is stated that merger of soul with super soul is the objective .Even now we have consciousness that is small jot of God. God has larger consciousness may be called as Jot , itself. In that case what would be the meaning of realization of God or Waheguru and of what significance. What will I gain by this ?

    My well versed friends in Sikhi and Sikh philosophy can throw some light on this.
     

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  3. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    apparently there is a member who knows of someone who has realised this, maybe they can shed some light on the matter
     
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  4. Sherdil

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    True love is love without expectation of reward. It is unconditional.

    In such love, you lose yourself.

    By losing yourself you gain everything.
     
  5. Parma

    Parma United Kingdom
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    If your asking for a purpose then put it simply you want to add weight or validity or value to your understanding on yourself I guess. You want to affirm, what's the point I say that same response back from nature would be just as justifiable too. What's your point? If you cannot submerge with nature an want to curve out your own path do it but the obstacle is more then just nature its your independent self with no progressive assistance from the source you wish to receive progress from. So how will you succeed and find purpose without the help of nature; the earth; cosmos in any endeavours you wish to persue? Who's your audience, who's you're customer, who is going to contribute to your success ? To me its always god. I'm never big by myself who knows how the devil in the detail works for I see the nature of life and others only see themselves. God bless
     
    #4 Parma, Jan 12, 2016
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  6. hpsp

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    Every word in Gurbani is a frozen metaphor, like Gurbani itself; a frozen picture.It is this poetry behind these metaphors that gives it overwhelming power.Understanding of this poetry is essence of debugging the meaning of Bani.We all have come across the line ' Gobind milan ki eh teri baria'. Ultimately the question boils down to the meaning of this 'pankti'. If this is answered the problem is resolved, as I understand.

    Thanks to all who have responded.
     
  7. ActsOfGod

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    That has not been my experience. From what I can tell, it is more akin to a flowing river, or an energy, something alive. Gurbani is complex, multi-layered, and sublimely beautiful. It captures your attention and your whole being in a way that nothing else can.

    To be more accurate, perhaps you meant to say "deciphering". To that end, Bhai Gurdas Ji's Vaaran are most helpful.

    All the best on your journey.

    [AoG]
     
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  8. Sherdil

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    Life's purpose is to meet the Divine, i.e. union with the Husband-Lord.

    We are that which we seek, therefore union is achieved by dissipating the illusion of separation.

    The illusion of separation is created by the notion of a self (Haumai), because the notion of a self implies that there is another. When there is no self, then there is no other.

    On a cosmic scale, the illusion of Maya serves as a reflection by which the Divine can come to know itself. Through many forms, the formless ponders over itself and understands itself. We are a microcosm of the Universe, coming to terms with its own existence.

    P.S. I wouldn't advise you to boil down all of Gurbani to a single pankti.
     
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  9. hpsp

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    Thanks Sherdil ji.
    I am too naive and hence the question. I do not understand sikh philosophy much though I have read the entire scripture twice with great zeal and zest but the end result was not that I expected.

    Coming to your reply, Sir:

    What will I get , as a human being, by union with husband Lord.? What if I do not? Is it a must? What are the benefits of such a union to me as a human being ?

    I had mentioned the 'pankti' in the context. You are right Gurbani cannot be reduced to a single line.
     
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  10. ActsOfGod

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    You will obtain the goal for which you (and all of us) were born into this world. You will have accomplished the real task for which you are here, and you will have attained liberation from the cycle of birth and death, and you will thereafter abide in Bliss with the Creator Lord.

    Then you shall be consigned into the cycle of birth and death of 8.4 million species. Needless to say, you will endure a great deal more suffering than you've encountered thus far. And there will be no emancipation until you have achieved human form again -- who knows how long that may take. Therefore, it is imperative to understand your mission now, acknowledge it and pursue it to the absolute best of your ability.

    There is no doubt, it is a must.

    The benefits are innumerable and immeasurable. They are described many times in Gurbani. To begin with, you will achieve immediate benefits in this life of peace and tranquility, of poise and keen understanding, of a calm and settled mind, of happiness, bliss, unending joy, health and wellness, and chardi kala. The benefits continue on after your soul passes into the unknown, and grow immeasurably from there on.

    It is simply too great of a boon to ignore.

    All the best to you.

    [AoG]
     
  11. Ishna

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    The realisation is when you come to perceive the Oneness of all things. When you recognise that your light is the same as The Light, and all differences disappear, and you are fully connected to life, the universe, and everything.

    Great post, Sherdil Ji.

    I would add that our purpose is union with the Husband-Lord, and then to serve It and be an inspiration to others.

    So much of Gurbani sings about the peace of mind, removal of fear, contentment, bliss, and sense of love that comes through this union.

    If you don't strive for it, then you will waste your precious life having never tasted the greatest of all tastes and never achieved your real purpose. You will not be comforted as your death approaches, and you won't get this opportunity again.
     
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  12. hpsp

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    Thanks once again Sir/friend



    What is the contextual meaning of 'you'. ? Does it mean our physical body or mind, that is
    an amorphous term?; or does it mean our Soul? Who will get out of cycle of Birth and rebirth.Once I am dead it is my soul that shall go somewhere , place unknown. Once I am dead it is the soul's problem and not mine as a human being that I am right now.

    Who will suffer?
    This body will be reduced to Panch Tatva after death and what I am today shall not know of any suffering .It shall be of soul's ;as I interpret and understand. Whose release/emanicipation are we talking about?

    P.S.
    I am not aware of the 'Quotes';hence cannot take up your entire post .I shall do cut and paste only. Kindly bear with me.
     
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    #11 hpsp, Jan 14, 2016
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  13. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    What we really need is to hear from someone that has realized god, I mean if this is the central facet of being a Sikh, then there must be loads of people that have achieved this, I mean, surely the central goal would not be something unachievable.

    Although personally I do not believe the realization of god is possible, and is not a goal of Sikhism, in fact, if anything, I believe Sikhism cautions against the realization of god as it is a pointless pursuit, instead lauding living a good life as per the facets and qualities of god.
     
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  14. Ishna

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    I was talking to one of my relatives who is studying to be a ninja.. she said her teachers have said you can only ever catch glimpses of enlightenment. Her aim is to make the window bigger so she can catch bigger glimpses.

    I'm pretty sure I felt that glimpse once, years ago, and come pretty close sometimes whilst doing 'spiritual' things. Gotta make that window wider!
     
  15. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    maybe, where do you stand if you do not want enlightenment?
     
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  16. Ishna

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    Why wouldn't someone enjoy the previously mentioned good experiences that comes along with it?

    Guru Sahib never said Sikhs must shun contentment and peace of mind. It's all part and parcel of the "god realisation/enlightment" path, if Gurbani is anything to go by, from what I can tell.

    They sure do talk about it a lot!
     
  17. Sherdil

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    I view it from the perspective of seva (selfless service). The question of what I will receive in return doesn't even factor into the equation. Union with the Divine is the only worthwhile thing one can be given, in the grand scheme of things.

    This insinuates a personal motive. If I don't do this thing, then I won't receive that or something will happen to me. One's actions then become fueled by self-preservation.

    Nothing is a must. Whatever transpires is per the Hukam. As it pleases the Divine, we are pulled close or pushed away.
     
    #16 Sherdil, Jan 14, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2016
  18. chazSingh

    chazSingh Ireland
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    can realization of God not be the same as merger of soul with super soul...?

    to me these are just different words that potentially just mean the same thing..

    either way...none of us will know what merger is or realization is until we are in the midst of experiencing it...

    i thought realization is just to awaken to something that maybe we have forgotten or are unaware of? am i right? doesn't Simran mean to 'remember'? :)
     
  19. chazSingh

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    you can do it...its not even a question of whether it can be done...:)
    don;t ever give up....perseverance and patience...and a lot of love and belief...it'll happen...then won;t ever
    definitely 'alive' :)
     
  20. ActsOfGod

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    The "you" in this context is indeed your soul, which is what you really are. Due to the five senses and the illusion of separateness, we humans tend to believe that we are individual life forms existing on our own with no connection to others. In reality, you are not your body, your emotions, or even your mind. As the famous Deepak Chopra has said/quoted, you're not a human being having a spiritual experience, you're a spiritual being having a human experience.

    Certainly, you don't have memory of your previous lives and the suffering or happiness endured in them. However, in your present state, you are aware of your situation. As are all the people enjoying life without a care, when others look upon them with envy and think "How come he gets all the benefits and good luck, etc." People eventually put it down to kismat. Some people seem to have all the good luck and enjoy all the pleasures of life without seemingly doing anything to deserve them. While others, who are perfectly good people, honest, hard working, seem to have to endure great suffering and abuse. Again, people look at them and eventually put it down to kismat.

    But this "kismat" is not something random and unchangeable. It is something like an accounting that is carried forward into your next lifetime. Therefore, debts that were incurred in previous lives may be settled in this one. And credits accrued in this life may be reaped in this life, or in the future ones. Therefore, it is of vital interest in everyone's well-being to ensure that they are not going into debt by committing wrongs to others and etc.

    So the effects of actions performed by your physical body will be apparent on your Soul. Your physical body will be reduced to ashes after you die, but your Soul (which is indestructible and infinite), will bear the marks of your actions and while it is stained as such, it will remain separated from the Creator while it works out its karma in this physical plane of action ("Karam Khand").

    The suffering of the Soul is translated into the suffering of the physical body (mental/emotional/physical anguish and pain, etc.)

    Hope this clarification has been helpful.

    [AoG]
     
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  21. Ishna

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    Dear AoG Ji

    Becoming a Sikh removes one from belief in the mechanism of karma. Even if one still believes in karma, becoming a Sikh removes one from its working, and it is no longer relevant.

    May I ask you if you believe in hell? If not, why not, since it's mentioned in Gurbani? And if so, how do you reconcile it with believe in reincarnation?
     
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