What Is Naam?
- Thread starter Sherdil
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I like this. We have been doing Naam Simran on this thread all along.
How exactly has that been done and achieved ????
- Jan 19, 2014
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How exactly has that been done and achieved ????
Lucky ji, according to the paragraph I quoted from Dr. Dhillon's piece, the first step is to open your eyes and switch on the lights. Ishna ji provided us with a link. I think the answer to your question will manifest itself after you click it. lol
Nope....sorry,.....I can't see it ??
which shabad in particular highlights and backs up the point you made ?
- Jan 31, 2011
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probably those big Elvis sunglasses lol
arshdeep88
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The only thing that clicks in my mind about Naam is Remembrance of all the creation around,being able to see the beauty of that creation and accepting their existence ,somewhere able to connect with it ,living in accordance with the truth with Awareness,rather ill say a state of mind when you are thankful for many small things in your life rather than complaining. That's how i relate to Naam. I have no idea how Guru-bani relates to it . Might be right might be wrong,just my view.
- May 9, 2006
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Nope....sorry,.....I can't see it ??
which shabad in particular highlights and backs up the point you made ?
The quote Sherdil Ji posted brings together various parts of Gurbani illustrating the idea that reading, talking about, singing of the qualities of Naam is simran; rememberance. They are all activities that bring out awareness to Naam, from where we can conduct ourselves in truth, which is the point of it all, imho.
everything you mention and everything you say is great, and i would think of it as naam simran...i enjoy doing as much of that as possible...it really helps us focus our attention to the shabad that came from waheguru ji.
But, Gurbani also says to look within you...do not seek god on the outside, to seek him within you..
it would be good to hear the sangats opinions of how they would follow gurbani on such direction?
...
मः ३ ॥
Mėhlā 3.
Third Mehl:
ਸੋ ਭਗਉਤੀ ਜ ਭਗਵੰਤੈ ਜਾਣੈ ॥
सो भगउती जो भगवंतै जाणै ॥
So bẖag▫uṯī jo bẖagvanṯai jāṇai.
One who knows the Benevolent Lord God is the true devotee of Bhagaautee.
ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਆਪੁ ਪਛਾਣੈ ॥
गुर परसादी आपु पछाणै ॥
Gur parsādī āp pacẖẖāṇai.
By Guru's Grace, he is self-realized.
ਧਾਵਤੁ ਰਾਖੈ ਇਕਤੁ ਘਰਿ ਆਣੈ ॥
धावतु राखै इकतु घरि आणै ॥
Ḏẖāvaṯ rākẖai ikaṯ gẖar āṇai.
He restrains his wandering mind, and brings it back to its own home within the self.
ਜੀਵਤੁ ਮਰੈ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਵਖਾਣੈ ॥
जीवतु मरै हरि नामु वखाणै ॥
Jīvaṯ marai har nām vakẖāṇai.
He remains dead while yet alive, and he chants the Name of the Lord.
ਐਸਾ ਭਗਉਤੀ ਉਤਮੁ ਹੋਇ ॥
ऐसा भगउती उतमु होइ ॥
Aisā bẖag▫uṯī uṯam ho▫e.
Such a Bhagaautee is most exalted.
ਨਾਨਕ ਸਚਿ ਸਮਾਵੈ ਸੋਇ ॥੨॥
नानक सचि समावै सोइ ॥२॥
Nānak sacẖ samāvai so▫e. ||2||
O Nanak, he merges into the True One. ||2||
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Dr. Dhillon states that "Naam" does not literally mean name. It means the collective qualities of the divine. To read, contemplate, sing and discuss those qualities is Naam Simran. Therefore, reading and understanding Gurbani is Naam Simran. It requires full concentration and contemplation on what you are reciting.
If finding God within you was as simple as saying a single word repetitively, to induce a meditative trance, or to keep your mind focused on your perception of God, then there would be no need for 1430 pages of Gurbani.
Dr. Dhillon concludes his piece with the following:
- May 9, 2006
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Chazji
I think it's possible to look within at the same time as interacting with the world. To hold that sense of connection in your heart, while you go about the world, feeling Naam within you and sensing it all around at the same time.
I'm not suggesting one or the other is better; I'm saying there is value in a holistic Sikhi where silent meditation is just one part amidst a whole lot of other parts, like seva and vichaar. They're all important.
Coming back to Naam specifically, I do like how Karminder Singh Dhillon characterises Naam as virtues and qualities of the divine. Personally I'm inclined to think of Naam more abstractly, as being a reality.
I think it's possible to look within at the same time as interacting with the world. To hold that sense of connection in your heart, while you go about the world, feeling Naam within you and sensing it all around at the same time.
I'm not suggesting one or the other is better; I'm saying there is value in a holistic Sikhi where silent meditation is just one part amidst a whole lot of other parts, like seva and vichaar. They're all important.
Coming back to Naam specifically, I do like how Karminder Singh Dhillon characterises Naam as virtues and qualities of the divine. Personally I'm inclined to think of Naam more abstractly, as being a reality.
from memory i can;t recall anyone saying that repeating one word only is required?? or is the only thing that one must try to do?
of course naam is not a name in the sense that me and you have names...naam is beyond anything we can ever imagine or comprehend.
but at the same time...if your friends have not met you in years, just mentioning your name once may bring a whole flood of 'rememberence' of your attributes, characteristics, personality, moments you shared, emotions you shared' etc etc....
all of that through one word 'your name''
in the same way...when people jap, meditate or whatever on shabads like 'Waheguru' or 'satnaam' it opens a flood of emotion, contemplation and focus, and directed thought, and love for something they feel deep within...
and that my friend is far beyond some mindless 'parroting' that i'm sure many people also do...
i do this with many shabads, as many as i can remember, as much as time permits...they all came from Waheguru, and all have the power to unite us with him...
so do all you can, life is short...we don;t know how many breaths we have left...
::deleted single tuk, in English only, with no page number... Chazji you know better than that!::
live honestly, truthfully, care for one another because we are here in this world to inspire each other and uplift each other...
but we also need to go within and seek what lies literally within our hearts, and this will bring forth naturally and intuitively all of gods attributes also..
God Bless
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Where is everyone getting this idea that looking within means to stop interacting with the world...
as soon as meditation or something is mentioned everyone starts to think that we are sat in a dark room 24/7 uttering a word over and over...no interaction with anyone, no seva no anything...
lol
all is good...
- May 9, 2006
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Because you haven't given me any examples of anything else.
the Simran (reading japji, listening to kirtan, meditating on shabad) i do in the early hours is just 2 hours of the whole day...the rest is all interaction, contemplation, re-evaluation (with a focus always on God), etc etc with my fellow human beings...and a Cat that my wife has somehow adopted...
of course, you don't need to do what i'm doing, just follow your heart and see where it takes you...
use all the tools we have. in the end gurbani makes it very clear that the light of god will manifest within you and it is within yourself that you will become aware of Waheguru Ji and all his creations.
God Bless you ji
http://dailysikhupdates.com/2014/04/27/power-of-simran-a-sikh-whose-inspiring-many/
another parroting Sikh.... or is he onto something?
another parroting Sikh.... or is he onto something?
- Jan 19, 2014
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I agree that evoking the name "Waheguru" brings peace and focuses your mind on the divine. One feels immense love and devotion when they say their Lord's name. It has the ability to uplift spirits and calm the troubled mind. Like a song stuck in your head, the mind continues saying "Waheguru" even when the lips have grown tired. Waheguru remains the focus throughout the day.
That's all good, but the name itself doesn't lead to realization of Akaal. Realization comes from studying, reading, and discussing the attributes of the divine. One does not obtain a PhD in philosophy by merely repeating "Socrates".
You say "Sat Naam" can be used instead of "Waheguru" to evoke the same feelings. What you are still describing is akin to taking a drug or a placebo. "Sat Naam" Simran will not bring forth Sat any more than Pizza Simran will bring forth pizza. Regardless of how much love and devotion you have when you say the word "pizza", you still have to call the pizzeria, so they can deliver it to your house.
Guru ji advocates repeating the name "Har Har", but without gurbani to provide context, the word "Har Har" has no meaning. In fact, the meaning would change from one person to the next. This is why Guru ji has given 1430 pages worth of context.
I wonder how many people doing "Waheguru" Simran understand what Waheguru is, beyond the warm and fuzzy feeling they get inside when they hear this name. I believe the Gurus came to give us knowledge, not just an emotional experience.
Indeed, "Waheguru" Simran takes your mind off of the five thieves, but it does not lead to an understanding of what the 5 thieves are and why they are bad. Without understanding, we become like those three monkeys: See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil. In other words, saturate your senses so the bad stuff can't get in. In this sense, it is a leash for a dog. What's even better is a dog that doesn't need a leash.
I'm not against Waheguru Simran. I'm against using it as a means to enlightenment. It is nothing more than a tool used to quiet the mind. No gyaan is attained from this endeavor.
who said evoking the name and who said anything about using your lips ?
Did I not mention somewhere that the jap repetition is just the initial stage to settle and ''steady'' the mind. Does gurbani not say that you must steady your mind ? OR does it say do whatever tickles your fancy and you feel is right ?
Before sikhi, it was only the brahmin caste that had the privileges of learning religious scriptures and texts.
Only they had the right to be educated, since at that time education meant = well learned = righteous people who understand the texts because of caste birthrights.
So, you are telling me that sikhi is for the learned individual only.
What did bhagat dhana read or many of the other enlightened ones in bani ?
Isn't sikhi about just putting your heart and mind in focus to the Truth or does the hardworking low caste sewage cleaner have to live in the hope of rebirth to be able to read and write, so that eventually he may be gurmukh.
If someone cannot read or write or doesn't even have basic 'social' communicating skills, then they have no hope whatsoever of being gurmukh sikh ?
Do you think that saying the word with all your love is naam simran ?
Saying 'waheguru' is the same as saying 'pizza'
so, a druggie saying 'crack' and sex addict saying 'pus-sy' is simran ?
Read my post in other thread about maya and your thoughts being maya and how to move out of them.
what warm and fuzzy feeling ?
You clearly have No idea what the term ''unspoken word' or 'akath katha' is in gurbani.
HINT- you can read all the texts you want but you will never know unless you do the practical.
Yes, you are against waheguru simran.
I couldn't care less and wouldn't respond if you said ''I don't understand it properly because I haven't practiced it properly enough''.. but you are like the other few on here continuously bashing and picking parts of sikhi that suit your own mayaic world.
Simran cannot teach you how to deal with 5 thieves is what you are saying above.
What part of you falls prey to the 5 thieves ?
Is it your eyes, arms, head, nose...or is it your MIND ?
Then how are you going to start ''mann jitey jagg jeet'' ?
How will you begin to conquer and strengthen this mind..?
Maybe you are going to tell me that you do that by instructing and disciplining your brain to do so !
OR that you don't need to do that as the education, reading, discussing will take care of that.
Who told you that No gyan is attained and where exactly in gurbani does it say that ?
You actually think that ''knowledge'' is all about what you train your brain to do.
Then what is this mystery gyan obtained from akath katha (the unspoken speech) ?
If you spend more time ridiculing it than attempting it practically, then you shall never know.
You guys start a thread about 'Naam' but don't want to hear anything about naam simran or even it's explanation that is given in Anand sahib of where and with whom this naam resides in.
- Jan 31, 2011
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Luckyji your arguing against your own argument, your inference is that for the individual who cannot study, repetition is a good alternative...
The fundamentals of Sikhism are contained in the first ten lines, simple enough even that someone like me understands them, any hardworking low caste sewage worker living in the hope of rebirth should probably embrace Hinduism, as in Sikhism the idea is to find the answers in the one life, and there are plenty Gurmukh Sikhs who do not even know they are, just like there are plenty of non Gurmukh Sikhs who are certain they are such.
absolutely! all classic signs of addiction, whether it be to sex, crack, or that fuzzy feeling that you think is a connection, but is just in fact the end result of Vedic meditation techniques. You need it, you live for it, it becomes home, first base, that special place where you feel happy and at peace, settled, to some its crack, to some its sex, to some its sitting in dark rooms at some ungodly hour mumbling.
pretty much, just as I am against certain types of music, its just not for me, however, I do respect an individuals desire to do it, I do, however, resent having it shoved down my throat and made to feel I am incomplete Sikh because I do not believe in it.
Well I have tried it, and I didn't like it, I felt it was highly addictive, an almost hypnotic like state, a bit like being stoned, going deep within yourself, but not finding anything, just embracing what you feel is the perfect mental state, but is nothing more than mind gymnastics,.
precisely
every cell of your being
it is every cell
discipline?
by dropping the bone
seems a good start
I don't mind hearing all, but I feel I have to speak out when personal opinion becomes undisputed fact, what you are saying is your opinion and yours only, it is not fact, it is not explanation, it is just your opinion, just like what I am writing is mine,
It may be an opinion, but you tell me what is not an opinion ?
You guys asking about ''Naam'' and we have clearly tried to tell you that you have to experience it to be able to understand it.
You refuse to listen because you have your own version and opinions of what sikhi is.
It's human nature that when we become accustomed to some ideas and beliefs that we refuse to broaden our horizons on those issues any further because of fear that it may rock our boats.
However, we only have this fear because the boat is already rocking and we are just about managing to steer it.
as for you finding simran hypnotic and addictive, I don't know what you were doing but it wasn't naam simran by any means !
You guys asking about ''Naam'' and we have clearly tried to tell you that you have to experience it to be able to understand it.
You refuse to listen because you have your own version and opinions of what sikhi is.
It's human nature that when we become accustomed to some ideas and beliefs that we refuse to broaden our horizons on those issues any further because of fear that it may rock our boats.
However, we only have this fear because the boat is already rocking and we are just about managing to steer it.
as for you finding simran hypnotic and addictive, I don't know what you were doing but it wasn't naam simran by any means !
- May 9, 2006
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This 'us vs them' mentatilty is starting to give me the irrits! Aren't we community exploring these topics together??? That kind of "we have tried explaining to you people" attitude is NOT helping anything.
Lucky and Harry Jis: We all experience this thing we can't even define which is 'Naam' individually. Some experience it by meditating quietly, others experience it in their every day lives, most people I assume are somewhere in the middle!
This is PRECISELY the rabbit hole I alluded to in the beginning of this thread. Discussions spiral down the rabbit hole by the repetative fixation on Naam simran meditation TO THE EXCLUSION of all else. Every thread is hijacked in a similar fashion.
It is an obvious problem, and we should all take care to AVOID such discussion in so many threads, not because it's not relevant or important or meaningful or useful, but because it's shutting the discussions down.
Can we PLEASE discuss the appropriate topic, which is actually trying to DEFINE NAAM! Everyone has had ample opportunity to talk about Naam simran and the experience of Naam by quiet meditation; does anyone have anything ELSE to say about Naam?
Lucky and Harry Jis: We all experience this thing we can't even define which is 'Naam' individually. Some experience it by meditating quietly, others experience it in their every day lives, most people I assume are somewhere in the middle!
This is PRECISELY the rabbit hole I alluded to in the beginning of this thread. Discussions spiral down the rabbit hole by the repetative fixation on Naam simran meditation TO THE EXCLUSION of all else. Every thread is hijacked in a similar fashion.
It is an obvious problem, and we should all take care to AVOID such discussion in so many threads, not because it's not relevant or important or meaningful or useful, but because it's shutting the discussions down.
Can we PLEASE discuss the appropriate topic, which is actually trying to DEFINE NAAM! Everyone has had ample opportunity to talk about Naam simran and the experience of Naam by quiet meditation; does anyone have anything ELSE to say about Naam?
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