Sukhmani Sahib Astpadi 1 Sabad 6 / ਸੁਖਮਨੀ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਅਸਟਪਦੀ ੧ ਸਬਦ ੬

[Tejwant Singh]

Ambarsaria ji,

Very many thanks for the pains taken for replying to queries.
Having dealt with the basic question ,It is time to discuss the larger question that you would be required to answer as you deem fit.

After going through your posts carefully, It is concluded that you have thought it fit to assign the meaning to Prabh ke simaran... as 'Creator's understanding';the conventional works and sheer reading is not even suggestive of this. You would have your reasons to come out with the meaning that deviates from the conventional one.

Mind does not accept such a round turn. In bani consistency is another important factor; i.e 'Simran'/'Simrana'/dhyan karna/Dhyana/ japana/[may be ...sift salah karni]/rab de nam noo jaap kar ke man vich vasana] should have same meaning everywhere.
It is the touchstone of interpretation.

Hence the reading of bani as a whole is recommended. I do not know if you have undertaken an exercise of checking if the meaning assigned to simaran fits in all places in bani.

Once a reply is received we shall have an opportunity of learning that you want to state by 'creator's understanding'. It shall not be out of context that creator has been stated to be beyond comprehension. You very well know this.If that be so; will some useful purpose be served by following that you have stated i.e trying to 'understand creator' or Creator's understanding? Will it not be excessive indulging in sianapa/intellectualizing?.

You may like to dwell on this and send a suitable reply as to what is Prabh simaran..or Creator's understanding.
To me ,It comes as a part of realization when we are in Fourth Stage [out of Trigunas] with Divine Grace.
I am reminded of a line of bani and I can share only skeltal part and you can make out .....Tajo sianap[...]...simro har har....

Regards!

Taranjeet Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

Before I attempt to learn from this very interesting discussion between you and Ambarsaria ji, I have a few questions to ask. I hope you do not mind.

1. What is Simran for you and how do you practice it?

2. Is chanting/parroting one word for one hour or so Simran or just a transitory feel good exercise?

3. How can repeating one or two words for sometime make us understand the 1429 pages of SGGS, our only Guru?

4. If Simran is chanting/parroting, then shall we chant/parrot a couple of words, half a verse, the full verse, some part of a Shabad, half or full Shabad, one whole page and for how long? One can go on and on.

5. My question is where one draws the line and as our ultimate goal is to understand Ik Ong Kaar with the help of SGGS, our only Guru, and practice the Shabad Guru in our lives, what is the modus operandi?

Could you also please explain the 4 stages your are talking about above?

Are they used as mere metaphors or do they mean something more than that and If they do, then what in reality they are and how can one climb this ladder of stages you mentioned?

Lastly, you write:

It shall not be out of context that creator has been stated to be beyond comprehension.

By beyond comprehension, I understand that we as humans do not have the ability to understand Ik Ong Kaar as The Whole because the Universe is expanding, many things are happening in these wow and awe factors that surround us. Which is OK, but it does not mean that we can not understand whatever we can with our ability nor does it mean that Ik Ong Kaar is misunderstood. We are lucky to have SGGS to clarify that and help us understand the little we can.

So, for me, trying to understand Ik Ong Kaar with the help of Gurbani is trying to make a difference in this world, for me, for others who are near and dear to me and many more whom I do not even know and perhaps will never know.

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh

 

[Taranjeet singh]

Taranjeet Singh ji,

1. What is Simran for you and how do you practice it?


Could you also please explain the 4 stages your are talking about above?


Tejwant Singh

Tejwant Singh ji,

I am not worthy enough to answer your questions as I am very new to this. I shall take up your queries at Sl 1-4 in the following para.

To strike a reasonable balance between studying /understanding and practicing is a subjective matter that is governed by hosts of factors. Few things are granted to us by His grace only.

I shall very honestly share with you as to how I do; I am , like anybody else, answerable to Guru sahibs tomorrow.

I am not an early riser i.e I am not keeping Rehat of Amritvella that is stated to be the time when we are likely to be benefited most.

Still whenever I do , I focus on 'wahe- guru' and some time on 'Mool-Mantra'. There is no chanting at all, or at least, I do not do. I try to do it inside with my breaths. This seems simplest of all as lot of labor is saved. We have been told may in a Times in 'Gurbani' that we should practice it. So I do it and shall continue to to do with focus and love.

You may kindly refer to the Paudi-32 of Jap ji sahib for guidance. I intend to carry on this through out my life if I am blessed with.

Understanding Bani is also an ongoing process. It shall never stop. Both the things are to be carried on simultaneously. Nitnem is another area that one should keep in mind. I try to to do Jap ji sahib in the morning and Rehras Sahib in the evening. My wife spends quite a time in Gurudara sahib and I accompany her rarely. I shall improve upon this as well.

Regarding your next point of Fourth stage; it is a stage when we have come out of the three qualities of Maya ,i.e Tamo, Rajo and Satto It comes to us with our efforts and by His grace. Once we have been blessed with overcoming this, state is referred to is Fourth stage. It is not necessarily the Turia-'awastha' ;I am not sure of this.

In sukh mani sahib , the very first line is Simrao...[ Guru ji is addressing sangat in all humility- I do simaran and simmr simmr sukh pavo...and that you should also do this.......Please refer Dr Sahib Singh ji for exact meaning.]

Yes, you have your view point about understanding Ik-ong kaar.
We are contemporarians undertaking this journey and are blessed with the understanding given by HIM and we act accordingly. You are justified because you believe that it is correct, I do it because I consider that parroting is also important, so I am also correct. Choices are purely personal.

Wishing you all the success in your endeavors. I take your leave now.

 

[Harry Haller]

Taranjeetji

Very eloquently put dear friend, We are all different, I personally find Tejwantji's approach extremely refreshing and practical, and I agree with the pragmatic approach personally, however to quote Voltaire

"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"

I would change that to

"I do not agree with elements of your path, but I'll defend to the death your right to do it"

At the end of the day it is between you and your inner essence of Creator.

 

[Ambarsaria]

Taranjeetji

Very eloquently put dear friend, We are all different, I personally find Tejwantji's approach extremely refreshing and practical, and I agree with the pragmatic approach personally, however to quote Voltaire

"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"

I would change that to

"I do not agree with elements of your path, but I'll defend to the death your right to do it"

At the end of the day it is between you and your inner essence of Creator.

Harry Haller ji Taranjeet Singh ji is a very humble demeanor soul. I guarantee you that Taranjeet Singh ji has studied more Gurbani than I ever will.

Taranjeet Singh ji's references to Prof. Sahib Singh ji is proof enough for me that when Taranjeet Singh ji's does Simran such is based on understanding.

You can basically understand once and do Simran all your life as many times as it is your desire. It will simply re-inforce and refresh understanding.

I will take note in my translations in case I am putting down Simran or appearing to be doing so. I have nothing against Simran per se. I have come across people who come out of Simran sessions then act as though they have learnt nothing from what they just finished doing Simran of.

As my only point is understanding is very hard to come by through Simran alone without discourse, study done by self or shared by others and picked up by self. It is definitely not impossible as some are so gifted that they understand as they read.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[Harry Haller]

Ambarsariaji,

I feel a bit of a hypocrite actually....

Although I do not do Simran myself, I have a huge love of music, especially music that for want of a better word, makes you cry, something that touches you so deeply that you savour the words through the tears, contemplate them as the music plays, nodding to yourself at how right they are, how insightful they are, sometimes the words are not even important, its the tone and the structure of the music, it takes you back to a place in your head.

When people do this with bani, they call it Simran, but Simran also describes the repetition of a single word in order to gain a 'high', in the same way that Nihangs ingest Bhang to get a similar high,

I think the word Simran is too all encompassing to use it specifically in argument, however the Simran as described by Taranjeetji, I do every day but without the words running through my head as given by Guru, which actually makes me not just a hypocrite but blinkered too...........

I think chanting the words of bani, that you understand and love, and embrace is wonderful, I think that if your focus is on something else, or you are doing it to tick a box, or fill up time, or to get a celestial pat, then it is quite pointless,

 

[Ambarsaria]

My love in music is the following style of Sikhi renditions of History, etc. If you listen to this on Freeway/Highway and don't get a speeding ticket there is something wrong lol,

Dhadi Daya Singh Dilbar 1994. FULL parsang - YouTube

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[Ambarsaria]

Ambarsaria ji,

Very many thanks for the pains taken for replying to queries.
Having dealt with the basic question ,It is time to discuss the larger question that you would be required to answer as you deem fit.

After going through your posts carefully, It is concluded that you have thought it fit to assign the meaning to Prabh ke simaran... as 'Creator's understanding';the conventional works and sheer reading is not even suggestive of this. You would have your reasons to come out with the meaning that deviates from the conventional one.

Mind does not accept such a round turn. In bani consistency is another important factor; i.e 'Simran'/'Simrana'/dhyan karna/Dhyana/ japana/[may be ...sift salah karni]/rab de nam noo jaap kar ke man vich vasana] should have same meaning everywhere.

It is the touchstone of interpretation.

Taranjeet Singh ji the following answer to your above discourse,

ਸਿਮਰਣ
Mahan Kosh Encyclopedia ਸੰ. स्मरण. {ਸੰਗ੍ਯਾ}. ਚੇਤਾ. ਯਾਦਦਾਸ਼੍ਤ। (2)ਚਿੰਤਨ. ਸੋਚਣਾ.(Aware Thinking)"ਹਰਿ ਪੇਖਨ ਕਉ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ ਅਥਵਾ ਗੁਣ ਮਨ ਦੀ ਵ੍ਰਿੱਤੀ ਏਕਾਗ੍ਰ2ਸਿਮਰਤ ਮਨ ਮੇਰਾ" (ਗਉ ਮਃ ੫)। (3) ਇਸ੍ਟਕਰਕੇ ਯਾਦ ਕਰਨਾ. "ਜਸ੍ਯ ਸਿਮਰਣ ਰਿਦੰਤਰਹ". (ਸਹਸ ਮਃ ੫).
Mahan Kosh data provided by Bhai Baljinder Singh (RaraSahib Wale); See http://www.ik13.com

ਜਾਪਿ
Mahan Kosh Encyclopedia ਜਪਣ ਦਾ ਅਮਰ. ਜਪ. "ਮਨ ਮਾਹਿ ਜਾਪਿ ਭਗਵੰਤੁ". (ਰਾਮ ਮਃ ੫) "ਆਠ ਪਹਰ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕਾ ਜਪੁਜਾਪਿ". (ਰਾਮ ਮਃ ੫)। (2) ਸੰ. ज्ञाप्ति ਗ੍ਯਪ੍ਤਿ. {ਸੰਗ੍ਯਾ}. ਜਾਨਕਾਰੀ. ਇ਼ਲਮ।(Knowledge, Education)(3) ਬੁੱਧਿ।(Intellect, Intelligence) (4) ਪ੍ਰਸੰਨਤਾ। (5) ਸਤੁਤਿ. ਤਾਰੀਫ. "ਆਪਨ ਕੀਆ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਆਪੇ ਹੀ ਫਿਰਿਜਾਪਿ". (ਸੁਖਮਨੀ)। (6) ਜਾਪ੍ਯ. ਜਪਣ ਯੋਗ੍ਯ.
Mahan Kosh data provided by Bhai Baljinder Singh (RaraSahib Wale); See http://www.ik13.com

Mahan Kosh Encyclopedia ਸੰ. बुद्घि. ਬੁੱਧਿ.{ਸੰਗ੍ਯਾ}. ਅ਼ਕ਼ਲ (Intelligence). ਸਮਝ. (Understanding)ਵਿਵੇਕਸ਼ਕਤਿ. "ਬੁਧਿ ਗਿਆਨ ਸਰਬ ਤਿਹ ਸਿਧਿ". (ਸੁਖਮਨੀ) ਦੇਖੋ, ਬੁਧ੍* ਧਾ.
Mahan Kosh data provided by Bhai Baljinder Singh (RaraSahib Wale); See http://www.ik13.com

ਸੰ. जप् ਧਾ- ਜਪਨਾ, ਮਨ ਵਿੱਚ ਕਹਿਣਾ। (2) {ਸੰਗ੍ਯਾ}. ਮੰਤ੍ਰਪਾਠ. "ਜਪਹੀਨ ਤਪਹੀਨਕੁਲਹੀਨ ਕਰਮਹੀਨ". (ਗਉ ਨਾਮਦੇਵ) ਸੰਸਕ੍ਰਿਤ ਗ੍ਰੰਥਾਂ ਵਿੱਚ ਜਪ ਤਿੰਨ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਰ (Three meanings) ਦਾ ਹੈ- ਅੱਖਰਾਂ ਵਿੱਚ ਕੀਤਾ ਜਾਵੇ, ਜਿਸ ਨੂੰ ਸੁਣਕੇ ਸ਼੍ਰੋਤਾ ਅਰਥ ਸਮਝ2(ੳ) ਵਾਚਿਕ, ਜੋ ਸਪਸ੍ਟਸਕੇ.(Listening one gets the meaning and clarity)(ਅ) ਉਪਾਂਸ਼ੁ, ਜੋ ਹੋਠਾਂ ਅੰਦਰ ਬਹੁਤ ਧੀਮੀ ਆਵਾਜ਼ ਨਾਲ ਕੀਤਾ ਜਾਵੇ, ਜਿਸ ਨੂੰਬਹੁਤ ਪਾਸ ਬੈਠਣ ਵਾਲਾ ਭੀ ਨਾ ਸਮਝ ਸਕੇ. (ੲ) ਮਾਨਸ, ਜੋ ਮਨ ਦੇ ਚਿੰਤਨ ਤੋਂ ਕੀਤਾਜਾਵੇ.¹ਤੰਤ੍ਰਸ਼ਾਸਤ੍ਰ ਅਨੁਸਾਰ ਮੰਤ੍ਰਾਂ ਦੇ ਜਪ ਦੀ ਗਿਣਤੀ, ਭਿੰਨ ਭਿੰਨ ਸਾਮਗ੍ਰੀ ਅਤੇਜੁਦੇ ਜੁਦੇ ਫਲ ਅਨੇਕ ਜਾਪਕਾਂ ਨੇ ਲਿਖੇ ਹਨ, ਜਿਸ ਦੀ ਨਕਲ ਕਿਸੇ ਸਿੱਖ ਨੇ ਗੁਰੂ ਸਾਹਿਬਦਾ ਨਾਮ ਲੈਕੇ "ਸਰਧਾਪੂਰਕ" ਪੁਸ੍ਤਕ ਵਿੱਚ ਭੀ ਕੀਤੀ ਹੈ। (3) ਉਹ ਮੰਤ੍ਰ ਅਥਵਾ ਵਾਕ, ਜਿਸ ਦਾ ਜਪ ਕੀਤਾ ਜਾਵੇ। (4) ਦੇਖੋ, ਜਪੁ ਅਤੇ ਜਪੁਜੀ. [¹ਦੇਖੋ, ਹਾਰੀਤ ਸਿਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਅਃ੪, ਸ਼ ੪੦ ਤੋਂ ੪੪.]
Mahan Kosh data provided by Bhai Baljinder Singh (RaraSahib Wale); See http://www.ik13.com

Taranjeet Singh ji based on your post I have highlighted the thought process that I followed in my translation of,

ਸਿਮਰਣ
ਜਾਪਿ

translated as,

Aware Thinking; Knowledge, Education; Intellect, Intelligence; Understanding; Listening one gets the meaning and clarity

I wonder if this provides the clarity that you were looking for.

I will be happy to consider other comments, critique or suggestions.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[Harry Haller]

So like everything else that has been turned upside down for me regarding what I thought Sikhi was about, Simran is actually the thought process before Seva, in effect, what a lot of people do called Simran is actually nothing of the sort,

I wonder then, what Bani says about the state of escapism that many feel they need to visit by whatever means, I would hazard a guess that this very state has Vedic leanings and is simply another attempt to corrupt the way forward.

 

[Ambarsaria]

Veer Harry Hller ji couple of comments on your post

So like everything else that has been turned upside down for me regarding what I thought Sikhi was about, Simran is actually the thought process before Seva, in effect, what a lot of people do called Simran is actually nothing of the sort,

It is almost impossible to judge anyone's state of mind while such are doing repetitive chanting. Perhaps different people have different thoughts, visualization as they so proceed. Some may relate to SGGS, some may relate to their personal understanding (say Vaheguru), or countless many scenarios. Whether such thoughts have rational association with SGGS, teachings therein, etc., is a part perhaps behooves on all Sikhs to consider while participating in such.

I wonder then, what Bani says about the state of escapism that many feel they need to visit by whatever means, I would hazard a guess that this very state has Vedic leanings and is simply another attempt to corrupt the way forward.

Sikhism does not teach one to run away knowing. Sikhism does not have pre-judgement on much we do even though one can kind of relate to things. Say you are jogging because you so like. You play tennis as you so like. Blessed body is recognized in Sikhism meaning our bodies both mentally and physically. So keeping up and taking care of such blessed gift is per Sikhism. Now voided mantar (that I have no meaning association) and really given to exploit my ignorance or fallibility is not acceptable in Sikhism.

We can perhaps cover it off in more detail in more appropriate threads like Simran based or even interfaith.

Just some thoughts.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[Harry Haller]

Veer Harry Hller ji couple of comments on your post
It is almost impossible to judge anyone's state of mind while such are doing repetitive chanting. Perhaps different people have different thoughts, visualization as they so proceed. Some may relate to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, some may relate to their personal understanding (say Vaheguru), or countless many scenarios. Whether such thoughts have rational association with Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, teachings therein, etc., is a part perhaps behooves on all Sikhs to consider while participating in such.

Sikhism does not teach one to run away knowing. Sikhism does not have pre-judgement on much we do even though one can kind of relate to things. Say you are jogging because you so like. You play tennis as you so like. Blessed body is recognized in Sikhism meaning our bodies both mentally and physically. So keeping up and taking care of such blessed gift is per Sikhism. Now voided mantar (that I have no meaning association) and really given to exploit my ignorance or fallibility is not acceptable in Sikhism.

We can perhaps cover it off in more detail in more appropriate threads like Simran based or even interfaith.

Just some thoughts.

Sat Sri Akal.

Veerji It appears if we give weight to your meaning of Simran, and I do, then Simran is NOT chanting..........

 

[Ambarsaria]

Veerji It appears if we give weight to your meaning of Simran, and I do, then Simran is NOT chanting..........

Veer Harry Haller ji we are all different. We cannot rule out chanting as Simran, as understood by millions. If it is used with understanding there is nothing wrong but I personally am not a huge fan of such. I sometimes liken it to entertainment with Chamtas, Chhainen, Tallian, etc. The following to me is entertainment,

Bhai Manpreet Singh: Bhinni Rainarhye - YouTube

Other types covered in thread like below and Section 1,

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-...mran-nitnem-gurbani-study-you.html#post157486

What people need to realize that if one word is all that Guru ji wanted us to repeat then they would not have composed Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. If one Bani is all one needs to focus on, then again they would not have composed Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. If understanding by as many was not the end objective they could have written it in Sanskrit to reduce the number of people who could access and self study Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

That is why for me Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is understanding driven. Our way of showing respect to our Guru ji's efforts and learn, understanding is the fundamental key. One can adopt many different styles beyond that.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Taranjeet Singh ji the following answer to your above discourse, Taranjeet Singh ji based on your post I have highlighted the thought process that I followed in my translation of,

ਸਿਮਰਣ
ਜਾਪਿ

translated as,

Aware Thinking; Knowledge, Education; Intellect, Intelligence; Understanding; Listening one gets the meaning and clarity

I wonder if this provides the clarity that you were looking for.

I will be happy to consider other comments, critique or suggestions.

Sat Sri Akal.

Ambarsaria ji,

Guru Fateh.

This is what Simran and Jap are for me not parroting/chanting a couple of words repeatedly.

Simran and Jap are the steps given to us by our Gurus to get rid of the mechanical rituals which other religions like Hinduism and Islam are famous for but to use our brains in order to develop a Gurmat related thought process.

I will relate my personal experience. I walk 6.5 miles daily which takes me about 1.40hrs and I listen to the Keertan on my ipod in a shuffle mode which means I do not know when & which Shabad is going to pop up. Last month, when I was at my last 40 mins of the walk, Simran by Bhai Harjinder Singh ji popped up which lasts for 50 mins. As my walking rhythm was in sync, I enjoyed the last 40 mins of my walk tremendously. So, I decided the next day to walk only with the Simran repeating for 1.40hrs. I could not get into any rhythm at all. It was boring and painful for me. As we were talking about it here, I forced myself to do it for a week and no difference but it had gotten worse for me. So, after one week of this torturous experiment I stopped and came back to shuffle all my 1000 Shabads.

I enjoy listening to the Shabads because everytime I listen to them again, I am able to grasp more of their meanings by finding other angles. It happens effortlessly and I am glad the rhythm is back.

Thanks for the meanings of Simran and Jap. They are just the way I think.

Regards

Tejwant Singh

 

[Taranjeet singh]

Ambararia ji,
Kindly find below the meaning from the sources that are available at Srigranh.org..Although you have also given the meaning .However, inadvertently these could not be highlighted.It is how ordinary sangat understand the words.Simran/Japana and Dhyana are very close words; have difference in shades of their Colors....Jap is an act of meditation by repetition of Mantra [and may be silent but not necessarily] I am posting it in a thread in which the discussion about this is ongoing.
ਸਿਮਰਣ[SIZE=-1]
Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Gurmukhi-Gurmukhi Dictionary[/SIZE] [SIZE=-0] ਸਿਮਰਨ, ਜਪ, ਬੰਦਗੀ, ਅਰਾਧਨ। ਸਿਮਰਨ ਕਰਨ ਦੁਆਰਾ। ਸਿਮਰਨ ਕਰਨ, ਜਪਣ। ਉਦਾਹਰਣ: ਬਿਨੁ ਹਰਿ ਸਿਮਰਣ ਪਾਪਿ ਸੰਤਾਪੀ॥ {ਆਸਾ ੧, ੨੪, ੨:੨ (356)}। [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Mahan Kosh Encyclopedia[/SIZE] [SIZE=-0] ਸੰ. स्मरण. {ਸੰਗ੍ਯਾ}. ਚੇਤਾ. ਯਾਦਦਾਸ਼੍ਤ। (2) ਚਿੰਤਨ. ਸੋਚਣਾ. "ਹਰਿ ਪੇਖਨ ਕਉ ਸਿਮਰਤ ਮਨ ਮੇਰਾ" (ਗਉ ਮਃ ੫)। (3) ਇਸ੍ਟ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ ਅਥਵਾ ਗੁਣ ਮਨ ਦੀ ਵ੍ਰਿੱਤੀ ਏਕਾਗ੍ਰ ਕਰਕੇ ਯਾਦ ਕਰਨਾ. "ਜਸ੍ਯ ਸਿਮਰਣ ਰਿਦੰਤਰਹ". (ਸਹਸ ਮਃ ੫). [/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]
Mahan Kosh data provided by Bhai Baljinder Singh (RaraSahib Wale); See http://www.ik13.com

ਜਪ
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Gurmukhi-Gurmukhi Dictionary[/SIZE] [SIZE=-0] ਜਪਨਾ, ਮਨ ਹੀ ਮਨ ਵਿਚ ਵਾਰ ਵਾਰ ਕਹਿਣਾ, ਹੌਲੇ ਸਵਰ ਵਿਚ ਉਚਾਰਣ ਕਰਨਾ। (2) ਜਾਪ ਕਰਨ ਵਾਲੇ (ਭਾਵ)। ਉਦਾਹਰਣ: ਅਸੰਖ ਜਪ ਅਸੰਖ ਭਾਉ॥ {ਜਪੁ ੧, ੧੭:੧ (3)}। ਅਨਿਕ ਬਰਖ ਕੀਏ ਜਪ ਤਾਪਾ॥ {ਮਾਝ ੫, ੧੨, ੩:੧ (98)}। ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਜਪ ਤਪ ਸੰਜਮੀ ਹਰਿ ਕੈ ਨਾਮਿ ਪਿਆਰੁ॥ {ਸਿਰੀ ੩, ੪੦, ੪:੧ (29)}। ਚਰਣ ਭਜੇ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਕੇ [/SIZE]
Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Gurmukhi-English Dictionary 2. Sk. v. 1. the longer poem of Guru Nanak Dev in the beginning of Guru Granth Sahib. 2. recite, murmur
Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Gurmukhi-English Data provided by Harjinder Singh Gill, Santa Monica, CA, USA.
[SIZE=-1]English Translation[/SIZE] [SIZE=-0] (1) The act of meditation by repetition of a Mantra/sacred word (may be silent). (2) Name of a composition of hymns by Guru Nanak. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Mahan Kosh Encyclopedia[/SIZE] [SIZE=-0] ਸੰ. जप् ਧਾ- ਜਪਨਾ, ਮਨ ਵਿੱਚ ਕਹਿਣਾ। (2) {ਸੰਗ੍ਯਾ}. ਮੰਤ੍ਰਪਾਠ. "ਜਪਹੀਨ ਤਪਹੀਨ ਕੁਲਹੀਨ ਕਰਮਹੀਨ". (ਗਉ ਨਾਮਦੇਵ) ਸੰਸਕ੍ਰਿਤ ਗ੍ਰੰਥਾਂ ਵਿੱਚ ਜਪ ਤਿੰਨ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਰ ਦਾ ਹੈ- (ੳ) ਵਾਚਿਕ, ਜੋ ਸਪਸ੍ਟ ਅੱਖਰਾਂ ਵਿੱਚ ਕੀਤਾ ਜਾਵੇ, ਜਿਸ ਨੂੰ ਸੁਣਕੇ ਸ਼੍ਰੋਤਾ ਅਰਥ ਸਮਝ ਸਕੇ. (ਅ) ਉਪਾਂਸ਼ੁ, ਜੋ ਹੋਠਾਂ ਅੰਦਰ ਬਹੁਤ ਧੀਮੀ ਆਵਾਜ਼ ਨਾਲ ਕੀਤਾ ਜਾਵੇ, ਜਿਸ ਨੂੰ ਬਹੁਤ ਪਾਸ ਬੈਠਣ ਵਾਲਾ ਭੀ ਨਾ ਸਮਝ ਸਕੇ. (ੲ) ਮਾਨਸ, ਜੋ ਮਨ ਦੇ ਚਿੰਤਨ ਤੋਂ ਕੀਤਾ ਜਾਵੇ.¹ ਤੰਤ੍ਰਸ਼ਾਸਤ੍ਰ ਅਨੁਸਾਰ ਮੰਤ੍ਰਾਂ ਦੇ ਜਪ ਦੀ ਗਿਣਤੀ, ਭਿੰਨ ਭਿੰਨ ਸਾਮਗ੍ਰੀ ਅਤੇ ਜੁਦੇ ਜੁਦੇ ਫਲ ਅਨੇਕ ਜਾਪਕਾਂ ਨੇ ਲਿਖੇ ਹਨ, ਜਿਸ ਦੀ ਨਕਲ ਕਿਸੇ ਸਿੱਖ ਨੇ ਗੁਰੂ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ ਲੈਕੇ "ਸਰਧਾਪੂਰਕ" ਪੁਸ੍ਤਕ ਵਿੱਚ ਭੀ ਕੀਤੀ ਹੈ। (3) ਉਹ ਮੰਤ੍ਰ ਅਥਵਾ ਵਾਕ, ਜਿਸ ਦਾ ਜਪ ਕੀਤਾ ਜਾਵੇ। (4) ਦੇਖੋ, ਜਪੁ ਅਤੇ ਜਪੁਜੀ. [¹ਦੇਖੋ, ਹਾਰੀਤ ਸਿਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਅਃ ੪, ਸ਼ ੪੦ ਤੋਂ ੪੪.] [/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]

ਜਾਪ
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Gurmukhi-Gurmukhi Dictionary[/SIZE] [SIZE=-0] (1) ਜਪਨ, ਸਿਮਰਨ, ਜਪ। (2) ਜਪ ਨੇ, ਜਪਨ ਨਾਲ। ਉਦਾਹਰਣ: ਸੀਤਲ ਭਏ ਗੁਰ ਚਰਨੀ ਲਾਗੇ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਹਿਰਦੇ ਮਹਿ ਜਾਪ॥ {ਬਿਲਾ ੫, ੧੦੬, ੧*:੨ (825)}। ਕਾਹੂ ਜਾਪ ਕਾਹੂ ਤਾਪ ਕਾਹੂ ਪੂਜਾ ਹੋਮ ਨੇਮ॥ {ਗਉ ੫, ੧੫੫, ੨:੧ (213)}। [/SIZE]
Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Gurmukhi-English Dictionary n. (From Sk. Japa) recitation, murmured prayer
Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Gurmukhi-English Data provided by Harjinder Singh Gill, Santa Monica, CA, USA.
English Translation Jaap, a long composition (poem) by Guru Gobind Singh.
[SIZE=-1]Mahan Kosh Encyclopedia[/SIZE] [SIZE=-0] ਸੰ. {ਸੰਗ੍ਯਾ}. ਵਾਹਗੁਰੂ ਦੇ ਨਾਮ ਅਥਵਾ ਕਿਸੇ ਮੰਤ੍ਰ ਦਾ ਜਪਣਾ. ਜਪ। (2) ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ ਜੀ ਨੇ ਜਪੁਜੀ ਦੇ ਥਾਂ ਭੀ ਜਾਪ ਸ਼ਬਦ ਵਰਤਿਆ ਹੈ. "ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਵੇਲੇ ਜਾਪ ਉਚਾਰਾ". (ਵਾਰ ੧)। (3) ਗ੍ਯਾਨ. ਦੇਖੋ, ਗ੍ਯਪ ਧਾ। (4) ਦੇਖੋ, ਜਾਪਜੀ. "ਜਪ ਜਾਪ ਜਪੇ ਬਿਨਾ ਜੋ ਜੇਵੈ ਪਰਸਾਦ। ਸੋ ਵਿਸਟਾ ਕਾ ਕਿਰਮ ਹੁਇ". xxx (ਰਹਿਤ)। (5) ਦੇਖੋ, ਜਾਪਿ। (6) ਦੇਖੋ, ਜਾਪਨ। (7) ਦੇਖੋ, ਜਾਪੇ ੨.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary

[/SIZE][SIZE=-0]ਯਾਦ
ਸਮਰਣ. ਸਿਮਰਣ. ਚੇਤਾ[/SIZE]
http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary

My understanding is fairly limited. But I am a Punjabi and know that meaning of these words cannot be altered. You would do all of us a favor by looking into this with clear mind. Yes, I am neither contesting anything nor am I indulging in any argument. If you still feel that you are right in your understanding please carry on with that you intend do. As I have crystallized the meaning of some terms I am not likely to be swayed by the current of thoughts of any individual. I am bit rigid in these matters for which I seek your forgiveness in advance.

If you find some error/(s) please post the same and let me know. Errors can be resolved.

Entire edifice of sikhi is being put to challenge by your posts. Conventional meanings are being kicked as if these did not exist. It is difficult for me to accept such a translation. It is my last post in the series. I shall not re-post the same thing time and again.

Thanks and Kind Regards

 

[Ambarsaria]

Taranjeet Singh veer ji I believe I have explained my approach. The results of my approach are posted as my understanding/translation.

The wonderful way to look at it is if you can post your own understanding of Astpadi 1 and pauri/sabad 6. Then we can focus on differences. If you are simply going to depend upon Sant Singh Kahlsa ji's English translation to claim that to be your understanding, then how can I help you. Sant Singh Khalsa ji's translation is even more a literal version of Bhai Manmohan Singh ji and far removed from Prof. Sahib Singh ji. What you want me to do!

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Taranjeet Singh veer ji I believe I have explained my approach. The results of my approach are posted as my understanding/translation.

The wonderful way to look at it is if you can post your own understanding of Astpadi 1 and pauri/sabad 6. Then we can focus on differences. If you are simply going to depend upon Sant Singh Kahlsa ji's English translation to claim that to be your understanding, then how can I help you. Sant Singh Khalsa ji's translation is even much more literal version of even Bhai Manmohan Singh ji and far removed from Prof. Sahib Singh ji. What you want me to do!

Sat Sri Akal.

Ambarsaria ji,

Guru Fateh.

I have requested the same thing to Taranjeet Singh ji in my post earlier and I am eagerly waiting for his own interpretation so all of us can learn from it.

@ Taranjeet Singh ji: A Sikh, a learner, a student is never rigid. That is the whole idea of being a Sikh means. We learn, unlearn and relearn daily. This is our duty as Sikhs.

Can you please elaborate what Guru Nanak means by JAP which is followed by Mool Mantar in 38 Pauris using your above rationale/reasoning of the Punjabi Dictionary and Mahan Kosh?

How one would Jap these 38 Pauris? What is the modus operandi?

Could you also please elaborate the whole Shabads in your own words from the one liners given above as your explanations?

Hope to read your interpretations soon and I am sure I am going to learn a lot from them.

Regards

Tejwant Singh

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

Ambararia ji,
Kindly find below the meaning from the sources that are available at Srigranh.org..Although you have also given the meaning .However, inadvertently these could not be highlighted.It is how ordinary sangat understand the words.Simran/Japana and Dhyana are very close words; have difference in shades of their Colors....Jap is an act of meditation by repetition of Mantra [and may be silent but not necessarily] I am posting it in a thread in which the discussion about this is ongoing.
ਸਿਮਰਣ
[SIZE=-1]Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Gurmukhi-Gurmukhi Dictionary[/SIZE] [SIZE=+0]ਸਿਮਰਨ, ਜਪ, ਬੰਦਗੀ, ਅਰਾਧਨ। ਸਿਮਰਨ ਕਰਨ ਦੁਆਰਾ। ਸਿਮਰਨ ਕਰਨ, ਜਪਣ। ਉਦਾਹਰਣ: ਬਿਨੁ ਹਰਿ ਸਿਮਰਣ ਪਾਪਿ ਸੰਤਾਪੀ॥ {ਆਸਾ ੧, ੨੪, ੨:੨ (356)}। [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Mahan Kosh Encyclopedia[/SIZE] [SIZE=+0]ਸੰ. स्मरण. {ਸੰਗ੍ਯਾ}. ਚੇਤਾ. ਯਾਦਦਾਸ਼੍ਤ। (2) ਚਿੰਤਨ. ਸੋਚਣਾ. "ਹਰਿ ਪੇਖਨ ਕਉ ਸਿਮਰਤ ਮਨ ਮੇਰਾ" (ਗਉ ਮਃ ੫)। (3) ਇਸ੍ਟ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ ਅਥਵਾ ਗੁਣ ਮਨ ਦੀ ਵ੍ਰਿੱਤੀ ਏਕਾਗ੍ਰ ਕਰਕੇ ਯਾਦ ਕਰਨਾ. "ਜਸ੍ਯ ਸਿਮਰਣ ਰਿਦੰਤਰਹ". (ਸਹਸ ਮਃ ੫). [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Mahan Kosh data provided by Bhai Baljinder Singh (RaraSahib Wale); See http://www.ik13.com[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]ਜਪ
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Gurmukhi-Gurmukhi Dictionary[/SIZE] [SIZE=+0]ਜਪਨਾ, ਮਨ ਹੀ ਮਨ ਵਿਚ ਵਾਰ ਵਾਰ ਕਹਿਣਾ, ਹੌਲੇ ਸਵਰ ਵਿਚ ਉਚਾਰਣ ਕਰਨਾ। (2) ਜਾਪ ਕਰਨ ਵਾਲੇ (ਭਾਵ)। ਉਦਾਹਰਣ: ਅਸੰਖ ਜਪ ਅਸੰਖ ਭਾਉ॥ {ਜਪੁ ੧, ੧੭:੧ (3)}। ਅਨਿਕ ਬਰਖ ਕੀਏ ਜਪ ਤਾਪਾ॥ {ਮਾਝ ੫, ੧੨, ੩:੧ (98)}। ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਜਪ ਤਪ ਸੰਜਮੀ ਹਰਿ ਕੈ ਨਾਮਿ ਪਿਆਰੁ॥ {ਸਿਰੀ ੩, ੪੦, ੪:੧ (29)}। ਚਰਣ ਭਜੇ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਕੇ [/SIZE]
Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Gurmukhi-English Dictionary 2. Sk. v. 1. the longer poem of Guru Nanak Dev in the beginning of Guru Granth Sahib. 2. recite, murmur
Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Gurmukhi-English Data provided by Harjinder Singh Gill, Santa Monica, CA, USA.
[SIZE=-1]English Translation[/SIZE] [SIZE=+0](1) The act of meditation by repetition of a Mantra/sacred word (may be silent). (2) Name of a composition of hymns by Guru Nanak. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Mahan Kosh Encyclopedia[/SIZE] [SIZE=+0]ਸੰ. जप् ਧਾ- ਜਪਨਾ, ਮਨ ਵਿੱਚ ਕਹਿਣਾ। (2) {ਸੰਗ੍ਯਾ}. ਮੰਤ੍ਰਪਾਠ. "ਜਪਹੀਨ ਤਪਹੀਨ ਕੁਲਹੀਨ ਕਰਮਹੀਨ". (ਗਉ ਨਾਮਦੇਵ) ਸੰਸਕ੍ਰਿਤ ਗ੍ਰੰਥਾਂ ਵਿੱਚ ਜਪ ਤਿੰਨ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਰ ਦਾ ਹੈ- (ੳ) ਵਾਚਿਕ, ਜੋ ਸਪਸ੍ਟ ਅੱਖਰਾਂ ਵਿੱਚ ਕੀਤਾ ਜਾਵੇ, ਜਿਸ ਨੂੰ ਸੁਣਕੇ ਸ਼੍ਰੋਤਾ ਅਰਥ ਸਮਝ ਸਕੇ. (ਅ) ਉਪਾਂਸ਼ੁ, ਜੋ ਹੋਠਾਂ ਅੰਦਰ ਬਹੁਤ ਧੀਮੀ ਆਵਾਜ਼ ਨਾਲ ਕੀਤਾ ਜਾਵੇ, ਜਿਸ ਨੂੰ ਬਹੁਤ ਪਾਸ ਬੈਠਣ ਵਾਲਾ ਭੀ ਨਾ ਸਮਝ ਸਕੇ. (ੲ) ਮਾਨਸ, ਜੋ ਮਨ ਦੇ ਚਿੰਤਨ ਤੋਂ ਕੀਤਾ ਜਾਵੇ.¹ ਤੰਤ੍ਰਸ਼ਾਸਤ੍ਰ ਅਨੁਸਾਰ ਮੰਤ੍ਰਾਂ ਦੇ ਜਪ ਦੀ ਗਿਣਤੀ, ਭਿੰਨ ਭਿੰਨ ਸਾਮਗ੍ਰੀ ਅਤੇ ਜੁਦੇ ਜੁਦੇ ਫਲ ਅਨੇਕ ਜਾਪਕਾਂ ਨੇ ਲਿਖੇ ਹਨ, ਜਿਸ ਦੀ ਨਕਲ ਕਿਸੇ ਸਿੱਖ ਨੇ ਗੁਰੂ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ ਲੈਕੇ "ਸਰਧਾਪੂਰਕ" ਪੁਸ੍ਤਕ ਵਿੱਚ ਭੀ ਕੀਤੀ ਹੈ। (3) ਉਹ ਮੰਤ੍ਰ ਅਥਵਾ ਵਾਕ, ਜਿਸ ਦਾ ਜਪ ਕੀਤਾ ਜਾਵੇ। (4) ਦੇਖੋ, ਜਪੁ ਅਤੇ ਜਪੁਜੀ. [¹ਦੇਖੋ, ਹਾਰੀਤ ਸਿਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਅਃ ੪, ਸ਼ ੪੦ ਤੋਂ ੪੪.] [/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]ਜਾਪ
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Gurmukhi-Gurmukhi Dictionary[/SIZE] [SIZE=+0](1) ਜਪਨ, ਸਿਮਰਨ, ਜਪ। (2) ਜਪ ਨੇ, ਜਪਨ ਨਾਲ। ਉਦਾਹਰਣ: ਸੀਤਲ ਭਏ ਗੁਰ ਚਰਨੀ ਲਾਗੇ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਹਿਰਦੇ ਮਹਿ ਜਾਪ॥ {ਬਿਲਾ ੫, ੧੦੬, ੧*:੨ (825)}। ਕਾਹੂ ਜਾਪ ਕਾਹੂ ਤਾਪ ਕਾਹੂ ਪੂਜਾ ਹੋਮ ਨੇਮ॥ {ਗਉ ੫, ੧੫੫, ੨:੧ (213)}। [/SIZE]
Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Gurmukhi-English Dictionary n. (From Sk. Japa) recitation, murmured prayer
Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Gurmukhi-English Data provided by Harjinder Singh Gill, Santa Monica, CA, USA.
English Translation Jaap, a long composition (poem) by Guru Gobind Singh.
[SIZE=-1]Mahan Kosh Encyclopedia[/SIZE] [SIZE=+0]ਸੰ. {ਸੰਗ੍ਯਾ}. ਵਾਹਗੁਰੂ ਦੇ ਨਾਮ ਅਥਵਾ ਕਿਸੇ ਮੰਤ੍ਰ ਦਾ ਜਪਣਾ. ਜਪ। (2) ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ ਜੀ ਨੇ ਜਪੁਜੀ ਦੇ ਥਾਂ ਭੀ ਜਾਪ ਸ਼ਬਦ ਵਰਤਿਆ ਹੈ. "ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਵੇਲੇ ਜਾਪ ਉਚਾਰਾ". (ਵਾਰ ੧)। (3) ਗ੍ਯਾਨ. ਦੇਖੋ, ਗ੍ਯਪ ਧਾ। (4) ਦੇਖੋ, ਜਾਪਜੀ. "ਜਪ ਜਾਪ ਜਪੇ ਬਿਨਾ ਜੋ ਜੇਵੈ ਪਰਸਾਦ। ਸੋ ਵਿਸਟਾ ਕਾ ਕਿਰਮ ਹੁਇ". xxx (ਰਹਿਤ)। (5) ਦੇਖੋ, ਜਾਪਿ। (6) ਦੇਖੋ, ਜਾਪਨ। (7) ਦੇਖੋ, ਜਾਪੇ ੨.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+0]ਯਾਦ[/SIZE][SIZE=+0]
ਸਮਰਣ. ਸਿਮਰਣ. ਚੇਤਾ[/SIZE]
http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary

My understanding is fairly limited. But I am a Punjabi and know that meaning of these words cannot be altered. You would do all of us a favor by looking into this with clear mind. Yes, I am neither contesting anything nor am I indulging in any argument. If you still feel that you are right in your understanding please carry on with that you intend do. As I have crystallized the meaning of some terms I am not likely to be swayed by the current of thoughts of any individual. I am bit rigid in these matters for which I seek your forgiveness in advance.

If you find some error/(s) please post the same and let me know. Errors can be resolved.

Entire edifice of sikhi is being put to challenge by your posts. Conventional meanings are being kicked as if these did not exist. It is difficult for me to accept such a translation. It is my last post in the series. I shall not re-post the same thing time and again.

Thanks and Kind Regards

TARANJEET SINGH Ji,

JAPu and SIMRANu both are related to SINGLE WORD.

JAPu is repeatation of SABADu ..Any Single NOUN word but WAHiGURoo is the best word for this.
SIMRANu is tuning the Munn or Mind with RAAM NAAMu /HARi NAAMu which
is again a SINGLE WORD as Collective NOUN of PRABHu.

Prakash.S.Bagga
Unique SINGLE WORD as COllective Noun

 

[Ambarsaria]

TARANJEET SINGH Ji,

JAPu and SIMRANu both are related to SINGLE WORD.

JAPu is repeatation of SABADu ..Any Single NOUN word but WAHiGURoo is the best word for this.
SIMRANu is tuning the Munn or Mind with RAAM NAAMu /HARi NAAMu which
is again a SINGLE WORD as Collective NOUN of PRABHu.

Prakash.S.Bagga
Unique SINGLE WORD as COllective Noun

Praksah.S.Bagga ji not a true representation of issues. Let us review below. I have taken the earliest occurrences of the key words to illustrate.
________________________________________________________________

(http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&g=1&h=1&r=1&t=1&p=1&k=1&Param=1)

॥ਜਪੁ ॥
जपु ॥
Jap.
Chant And Meditate:
ਉਸ ਦਾ ਸਿਮਰਨ ਕਰ।
ਜਪੁ = ਇਸ ਬਾਣੀ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ'ਜਪੁ' ਹੈ।
"ਜਪੁ" ਬਾਣੀ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ ਹੈ।
"ਜਪੁ"is name of this Bani/Collection of writings/Hymns.

Question 1. "Chant And Meditate"!, where does this come from?

How can a name be translated into arbitrary verbs;
1. Chant;
2. Meditate
​

Answer. You cannot!

======================================================
ਘੜੀਐ ਸਬਦੁ ਸਚੀ ਟਕਸਾਲ ॥

घड़ीऐ सबदु सची टकसाल ॥
Gẖaṛī▫ai sabaḏ sacẖī taksāl.
and mint the True Coin of the Shabad, the Word of God.
ਇਸ ਤਰ੍ਹਾਂ ਸੱਚੀ ਸਿਕਸ਼ਾਲਾ ਅੰਦਰ ਰੱਬੀ ਕਲਾਮ ਰਚੀ ਜਾਂਦੀ ਹੈ।
ਘੜੀਐ = ਘੜੀਦਾ ਹੈ, ਘੜਿਆ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ। ਘੜੀਐ ਸਬਦੁ = ਸ਼ਬਦ ਘੜਿਆ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ। ਸੱਚੀ ਟਕਸਾਲ = ਇਸ ਉੱਪਰ-ਦੱਸੀ ਹੋਈ ਸੱਚੀ ਟਕਸਾਲ ਵਿਚ।

(ਕਿਉਂਕਿ ਇਹੋ ਜਿਹੀ ਹੀ) ਸੱਚੀ ਟਕਸਾਲ ਵਿਚ (ਗੁਰੂ ਦਾ) ਸ਼ਬਦ ਘੜਿਆ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ।
ਘੜੀਐ ਸਬਦੁ
ਘੜੀਐ è Make, Chiseling/cutting in carpentry
ਸਬਦੁèਸਬਦੁèਸਬਦ + (ੁ) è Sabad + (of)

ਘੜੀਐ ਸਬਦੁ è Making/Creating of Sabad è Making/Creating of Word

Question 2. "the Word of God” ;
Where is “Word of God”stated in the Tuk/Sentence?

Answer: Nowhere

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(http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=10&g=1&h=1&r=1&t=1&p=1&fb=1&k=1)
ਤਿਨ ਕਵਣੁ ਖਲਾਵੈ ਕਵਣੁ ਚੁਗਾਵੈ ਮਨ ਮਹਿ ਸਿਮਰਨੁ ਕਰਿਆ ॥੩॥

तिन कवणु खलावै कवणु चुगावै मन महि सिमरनु करिआ ॥३॥
Ŧin kavaṇ kẖalāvai kavaṇ cẖugāvai man mėh simran kari▫ā. ||3||
Who feeds them, and who teaches them to feed themselves? Have you ever thought of this in your mind? ||3||
ਉਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਕੌਣ ਖੁਲਾਉਂਦਾ ਹੈ, ਅਤੇ ਕੌਣ ਚੁਗਾਉਂਦਾ ਹੈ? (ਕੀ ਤੂੰ ਆਪਣੇ) ਚਿੱਤ ਅੰਦਰ ਕਦੇ ਇਸ ਦਾ ਖਿਆਲ ਕੀਤਾ ਹੈ?
ਚੁਗਾਵੈ = ਚੋਗਾ ਦੇਂਦਾਹੈ। ਮਨਿ ਮਹਿ = (ਉਹ ਕੂੰਜ ਆਪਣੇ) ਮਨ ਵਿਚ। ਸਿਮਰਨੁ = (ਉਹਨਾਂ ਬੱਚਿਆਂ ਦਾ) ਧਿਆਨ।ਖਲਾਵੈ = ਖੁਆਲਦਾ ਹੈ। ਕਵਣੁ ਖਲਾਵੈ = ਕੌਣ ਖੁਆਲਦਾ ਹੈ? ਕੋਈ ਭੀ ਕੁਝ ਖੁਆਲਦਾ ਨਹੀਂ।੩।"ਜੈਸੀ ਗਗਨਿ ਫਿਰੰਤੀ ਊਡਤੀ, ਕਪਰੇ ਬਾਗੇ ਵਾਲੀ। ਉਹ ਰਾਖੈ ਚੀਤੁ ਪੀਛੈ ਬਿਚਿ ਬਚਰੇ, ਨਿਤ ਹਿਰਦੈ ਸਾਰਿ ਸਮਾਲੀ।੧।੭।੧੩।੫੧। (ਗਉੜੀ ਬੈਰਾਗਣਿ ਮ: ੪)।

ਉਹਨਾਂਨੂੰ ਕੋਈ ਕੁਝ ਖੁਆਲਣ ਵਾਲਾ ਨਹੀਂ, ਕੋਈ ਉਹਨਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਚੋਗਾ ਨਹੀਂ ਚੁਗਾਂਦਾ। ਉਹ ਕੂੰਜਆਪਣੇ ਬੱਚਿਆਂ ਦਾ ਧਿਆਨ ਆਪਣੇ ਮਨ ਵਿਚ ਧਰਦੀ ਰਹਿੰਦੀ ਹੈ (ਤੇ, ਇਸੇ ਨੂੰ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਉਹਨਾਂਦੇ ਪਾਲਣ ਦਾ ਵਸੀਲਾ ਬਣਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ) ॥੩॥

Question 3: How is ਸਿਮਰਨੁ translated by the three translator’s?

1. thought of
2. ਖਿਆਲ ਕੀਤਾ
3. ਧਿਆਨ
Question: Is their coincidence of translation?

Answer: 1. Yes: ਸਿਮਰਨੁ is translated rightfully as the action “of thinking”, “of contemplating”
​

Answer 2. No: ਸਿਮਰਨੁ is not of “repeating”, “murmuring”
​

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

Praksah.S.Bagga ji not a true representation of issues. Let us review below. I have taken the earliest occurrences of the key words to illustrate.
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(http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&g=1&h=1&r=1&t=1&p=1&k=1&Param=1)

॥ਜਪੁ ॥
जपु ॥
Jap.
Chant And Meditate:
ਉਸ ਦਾ ਸਿਮਰਨ ਕਰ।
ਜਪੁ = ਇਸ ਬਾਣੀ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ'ਜਪੁ' ਹੈ।
"ਜਪੁ" ਬਾਣੀ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ ਹੈ।
"ਜਪੁ"is name of this Bani/Collection of writings/Hymns.



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ਘੜੀਐ ਸਬਦੁ ਸਚੀ ਟਕਸਾਲ ॥

घड़ीऐ सबदु सची टकसाल ॥
Gẖaṛī▫ai sabaḏ sacẖī taksāl.
and mint the True Coin of the Shabad, the Word of God.
ਇਸ ਤਰ੍ਹਾਂ ਸੱਚੀ ਸਿਕਸ਼ਾਲਾ ਅੰਦਰ ਰੱਬੀ ਕਲਾਮ ਰਚੀ ਜਾਂਦੀ ਹੈ।
ਘੜੀਐ = ਘੜੀਦਾ ਹੈ, ਘੜਿਆ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ। ਘੜੀਐ ਸਬਦੁ = ਸ਼ਬਦ ਘੜਿਆ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ। ਸੱਚੀ ਟਕਸਾਲ = ਇਸ ਉੱਪਰ-ਦੱਸੀ ਹੋਈ ਸੱਚੀ ਟਕਸਾਲ ਵਿਚ।

(ਕਿਉਂਕਿ ਇਹੋ ਜਿਹੀ ਹੀ) ਸੱਚੀ ਟਕਸਾਲ ਵਿਚ (ਗੁਰੂ ਦਾ) ਸ਼ਬਦ ਘੜਿਆ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ।
ਘੜੀਐ ਸਬਦੁ
ਘੜੀਐ è Make, Chiseling/cutting in carpentry
ਸਬਦੁèਸਬਦੁèਸਬਦ + (ੁ) è Sabad + (of)

ਘੜੀਐ ਸਬਦੁ è Making/Creating of Sabad è Making/Creating of Word

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(http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=10&g=1&h=1&r=1&t=1&p=1&fb=1&k=1)
ਤਿਨ ਕਵਣੁ ਖਲਾਵੈ ਕਵਣੁ ਚੁਗਾਵੈ ਮਨ ਮਹਿ ਸਿਮਰਨੁ ਕਰਿਆ ॥੩॥

तिन कवणु खलावै कवणु चुगावै मन महि सिमरनु करिआ ॥३॥
Ŧin kavaṇ kẖalāvai kavaṇ cẖugāvai man mėh simran kari▫ā. ||3||
Who feeds them, and who teaches them to feed themselves? Have you ever thought of this in your mind? ||3||
ਉਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਕੌਣ ਖੁਲਾਉਂਦਾ ਹੈ, ਅਤੇ ਕੌਣ ਚੁਗਾਉਂਦਾ ਹੈ? (ਕੀ ਤੂੰ ਆਪਣੇ) ਚਿੱਤ ਅੰਦਰ ਕਦੇ ਇਸ ਦਾ ਖਿਆਲ ਕੀਤਾ ਹੈ?
ਚੁਗਾਵੈ = ਚੋਗਾ ਦੇਂਦਾਹੈ। ਮਨਿ ਮਹਿ = (ਉਹ ਕੂੰਜ ਆਪਣੇ) ਮਨ ਵਿਚ। ਸਿਮਰਨੁ = (ਉਹਨਾਂ ਬੱਚਿਆਂ ਦਾ) ਧਿਆਨ।ਖਲਾਵੈ = ਖੁਆਲਦਾ ਹੈ। ਕਵਣੁ ਖਲਾਵੈ = ਕੌਣ ਖੁਆਲਦਾ ਹੈ? ਕੋਈ ਭੀ ਕੁਝ ਖੁਆਲਦਾ ਨਹੀਂ।੩।"ਜੈਸੀ ਗਗਨਿ ਫਿਰੰਤੀ ਊਡਤੀ, ਕਪਰੇ ਬਾਗੇ ਵਾਲੀ। ਉਹ ਰਾਖੈ ਚੀਤੁ ਪੀਛੈ ਬਿਚਿ ਬਚਰੇ, ਨਿਤ ਹਿਰਦੈ ਸਾਰਿ ਸਮਾਲੀ।੧।੭।੧੩।੫੧। (ਗਉੜੀ ਬੈਰਾਗਣਿ ਮ: ੪)।

ਉਹਨਾਂਨੂੰ ਕੋਈ ਕੁਝ ਖੁਆਲਣ ਵਾਲਾ ਨਹੀਂ, ਕੋਈ ਉਹਨਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਚੋਗਾ ਨਹੀਂ ਚੁਗਾਂਦਾ। ਉਹ ਕੂੰਜਆਪਣੇ ਬੱਚਿਆਂ ਦਾ ਧਿਆਨ ਆਪਣੇ ਮਨ ਵਿਚ ਧਰਦੀ ਰਹਿੰਦੀ ਹੈ (ਤੇ, ਇਸੇ ਨੂੰ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਉਹਨਾਂਦੇ ਪਾਲਣ ਦਾ ਵਸੀਲਾ ਬਣਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ) ॥੩॥

Sat Sri Akal.

AMBARSARIA Ji,

The words JAP and SIMRAN are NOUN as well as VERB.
JAP as Verb is repeating or Murmuring whereas SIMRAN as VERB is a process of tuning the mind or Munn with specific NAAM.

JAP can be of either SABADu or NAAMu whereas SIMRAN is always for NAAMu/NAAM.

My understanding is that JAPu is confined to AADi SACHu JUGAADi SACHu
HAE BHEE SACHu NANAK HOSEE BHEE SACHu.

From Gurbani we can know the reference for what is SACHu.?This I find as SABADu GuRoo...THE WORD GURoo only
Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[Ambarsaria]

AMBARSARIA Ji,

The words JAP and SIMRAN are NOUN as well as VERB.
JAP as Verb is repeating or Murmuring whereas SIMRAN as VERB is a process of tuning the mind or Munn with specific NAAM.

JAP can be of either SABADu or NAAMu whereas SIMRAN is always for NAAMu/NAAM.

My understanding is that JAPu is confined to AADi SACHu JUGAADi SACHu
HAE BHEE SACHu Guru Nanak HOSEE BHEE SACHu.

From Gurbani we can know the reference for what is SACHu.?This I find as SABADu GuRoo...THE WORD GURoo only
Prakash.S.Bagga

Prakash.S.Bagga ji your small "u" and "U" make no sense to me. Please use proper Punjabi words from Gurbani to illustrate. The context in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is always clear with each tuk and word. We don't need these arbitrary shortcuts or deductions to apply to Gurbani that evolved over 400 years.

With your rules and books of rules you probably would have even attempted to correct Guru jis and others who are in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji if you were around those times. I am not that build. Gurbani is simpler than complex and its structure is simpler rather than complex. The convolutions have been created through non-understanding and so has the complexity been introduced by weird and colored translations as well as forcing grammars from multi-languages and times without the scholarly depth of people like Prof. Sahib Singh ji. Lot of wannabees!

Please specifically comment on what I have stated wrong in my post as with URL below,

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sukhm...i-sahib-astpadi-1-sabad-6-a-4.html#post158346

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

Prakash.S.Bagga ji your small "u" and "U" make no sense to me. Please use proper Punjabi words from Gurbani to illustrate. The context in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is always clear with each tuk and word. We don't need these arbitrary shortcuts or deductions to apply to Gurbani that evolved over 400 years.

With your rules and books of rules you probably would have even attempted to correct Guru jis and others who are in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji if you were around those times. I am not that build. Gurbani is simpler than complex and its structure is simpler rather than complex. The convolutions have been created through non-understanding and so has the complexity been introduced by weird and colored translations as well as forcing grammars from multi-languages and times without the scholarly depth of people like Prof. Sahib Singh ji. Lot of wannabees!

Please specifically comment on what I have stated wrong in my post as with URL below,

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sukhm...i-sahib-astpadi-1-sabad-6-a-4.html#post158346

Sat Sri Akal.

There is always problem with english translitration of Gurbanee words.
For your reference I make use of small u as indication for matra of AUKAD and small i as indication formatra of Sihari with last word .This way you can match the words as given in SGGS .in Gurmukhi script.
If we ignore the significance of these matras in providing meaning to the words then I cant help any more.
Prakash.S.Bagga