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Sehajdhari Sikhs

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by Kuls1980, Mar 10, 2009.

  1. Kuls1980

    Kuls1980
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    Guru fathay

    Can someone please shed some light on this subject? I have read many articles on the net and still don’t understand, What stand is on this subject. And what has SGPC done to change this?
    I'm a mona Sikh, but regarding to some articles, SGPC have announced, any one who has cut hair and so on, is not a Sikh. Is this true?

    Please forgive me if I have upset any one.

    Fathey
     
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  3. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    Re: Sajdhari Sikhs.

    SGPC Run some colleges in which it reserve some seats for sikh students.Recently some students who used to cut their hair went to court and said that they are sehajdhari sikhs
    so they are eligible for reservation.Punjab and Haryana High court then asked SGPC about the defination of sikh.At first they submitted affidavit with some provision for sehajdhari sikhs but later many sikh bodies came and forced them to change affidavit.So Now according to SGPC only Keshdhari sikhs are eligible for reservation.BTW there is no change in definatiion of sikh according to Rehat maryada

    The Sikh Rehat Maryada Section One | Gateway to Sikhism | Gateway to Sikhism
    Chapter I
    The Definition of Sikh
    Ariticle 1
    Any human being who faithfully believes in
    (i) One Immortal Being,
    (ii) Ten Gurus, from Guru Nanak Dev to Guru Gobind Singh,
    (iii) The Guru Granth Sahib,
    (iv) The utterances and teachings of the ten Gurus and
    (v) the baptism bequeathed by the tenth Guru, and who does not owe allegiance to any other religion, is a Sikh.
     
  4. Kuls1980

    Kuls1980
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    Re: Sajdhari Sikhs.

    The Sikh Rehat Maryada Section One | Gateway to Sikhism | Gateway to Sikhism
    Chapter I
    The Definition of Sikh
    Ariticle 1
    Any human being who faithfully believes in
    (i) One Immortal Being,
    (ii) Ten Gurus, from Guru Nanak Dev to Guru Gobind Singh,
    (iii) The Guru Granth Sahib,
    (iv) The utterances and teachings of the ten Gurus and
    (v) the baptism bequeathed by the tenth Guru, and who does not owe allegiance to any other religion, is a Sikh.

    So you are saying to be a Sikh you have to follow these 6 steps. Hahaha
    Wow, what has become of this faith. The gift Guru Nanak dev ji gave to the world is know in these 6 steps. Brother, if it was that easy to become a Sikh, the Sikh nation would be a nation of saints.
    Sorry for being sarcastic. Sorry to ask another question, where does this rehat maryada come from. I have not read any where in the GGS about these rehat maryada, if that is not the case then you are contradicting yourself on rule no 3 on the list, aren't you?
     
  5. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh United States
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    Re: Sajdhari Sikhs.

    Kuls ji

    Guru Fateh.

    Let us leave SGPC on one side at the moment.

    Could please respond the following by filling in the blanks?

    I am a mona Sikh because_______________________________________.

    It is good to be a mona Sikh because _______________________________.

    And then we can get into constructive interaction about what Sikhi is all about.


    Thanks & regards


    Tejwant Singh
     
  6. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    Re: Sajdhari Sikhs.

    First Try to understand what others are saying then comment.Here I am not saying anything I was just giving you information.I am not the writer of sikh rehat maryada neither
    I am any sikh scholar.Here is the thread about the who made the rehat maryada
    http://www.sikhism.us/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/5365-a-history-of-sikh-code-conduct.html

    If you find anything contradictory in sikhism Go and find some sikh scholar and debate with him/her
     
  7. Kuls1980

    Kuls1980
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    Re: Sajdhari Sikhs.

    Dear Tejwant Singh


    Why do you want know, Why i am a mona Sikh and why is it good being a mona Sikh? What do you want me to say? Brother, if you are going to tell me about, this is the only way to become a Sikh and this is our ID. Well that’s your way. You cannot stop me from loving my Guru, the Guru doesn’t belong to you or all the Sikhs in the world. The guru belongs to the universe; the truth belongs to the universe.

    So a question to you, Am I a Sikh?

    Fathay
     
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  8. Kuls1980

    Kuls1980
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    Re: Sajdhari Sikhs.

    Mate, what are you trying to tell me that I need to understand? It’s not exactly rocket science that you have written. I not having a debate with you, I asked you about SGPC and the issues regarding sajdhari sikh and you give a passage from the rehayat mryada.
    So who really started this, you or I ? hahah.

    Mate, you really need to take that chill pill.
     
  9. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    Re: Sajdhari Sikhs.

    Then why are you asking me question about rehat maryada.Am I the writer OF Rehat maryada? Neither I said That those who don't follow Rehat are not sikhs.The fact is You just want to make mockery of rehat maryada.BTW I have shown you the thread in which all information of Rehat maryada is given but your quick reply showed me you are not at all interested in reading that thread.
     
  10. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    Re: Sajdhari Sikhs.

    Is there anybody here who said you are not sikh?
    Is there anybody here who is stopping you from loving Guru?
     
  11. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh United States
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    Re: Sajdhari Sikhs.


    Kulsi ji,

    Guru Fateh.

    There is nothing to get defensive about it. You claimed you were a Mona Sikh, not me.

    So what is wrong with your explaining what that means for you as you are the one who is questioning the SGPC rules?

    If you know my answer then there is no good asking the question and starting the thread. Let us not jump to conclusions. No one said you do not love your Guru. No one has judged you but unfortunately you have.

    Pardon my ignorance but I do not get your reluctance about your own claim. I am not judging you in any way or form. Just want you to elaborate a bit more about yourself.

    Am I missing something here?

    Still waiting for you to fill in the blanks and please shed your defensive posture. Sikhi is about openmindedness as far as a dialogue is concerned.


    Regards


    Tejwant Singh
     
  12. Kuls1980

    Kuls1980
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    Re: Sehajdhari Sikhs.

    Dear Mr Tejwant Singh

    But sorry, what are you going to achieve with me filling in these blanks. Mr Tejwant Singh, what is the purpose of this? I being a Mona Sikh, is my personal journey and no one else can change that. Im not being defensive, but just trying to understand the reason, why with these questions.
    So for your sake here are my answers:

    I am a mona Sikh because it's my personal journey towards enlightenment, to find the true essence of true love and to play the game of love.

    It is good to be a mona Sikh because,(this answer based on my own opinion), to me it doesn’t matter if you have long hair or have a hair cut. Im just a free bird flying in the sky of love, so in my opinion this question does not make sense, you may need to break it up. There is no single answer to it.


    I hope this has answered your queries.
     
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  13. Archived_member7

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    Re: Sehajdhari Sikhs.

    Gur Fateh ,

    Defination of a Sehajdhari : Sehaj means gradual Dhari means Dharan karan waala - A person who is following . So Sehaj Dhari is a person who is slowly moving towards the Path of the Guru.

    The Sehajdharis are from non sikh families. They do not have any Sikh background in their family.

    A Mona Sikh can be a person with Sikh parents who have not brought him/her up with cut kesh OR was brought up with uncut kesh how ever due to circumstances has cut his/her kesh.

    HE/SHE is considered 'PATIT' if the person had uncut kesh but later cut it . Such a person will nowhere be considered a SehajDhari.

    I am reposting Bhai Aman Singh ji's post this a hukamnama of Dasve Paadshah Sri Guru GobindSingh ji Maharaj



    Nearly 3 years after Baisakhi of 1699 Guru ji wrote letters (hukamnamas to some sahejdhari Sikhs - non amritdhari) on 6 February 1702 signed (characteristic authentic Nissan of tenth Guruji) by Guruji. The following is the text of one of these written to Sikhs presumably in Patna as the letter is preserved there.

    "Ek Oankar Satguru ji. Siri Guru ji di agaya hai Bhai Mihar Chand Karam Chand, Guru rakhega. Guru Guru japna janam saurega. Tusi mera Khalsa ho. Ik sau ik 101) rupiah haathi di phurmais hukam dekhde he sitabee hundee karai bhejni. Ar hor jo kichh Guru ke namit ka hovai so apai lai avna. Hathiar banh ke avgu so nihal hogu. Us di ghaal thai pavagu Guru naal rahgu. Guru ke navit ka hovai so horus kise no nahee dena ar masand, masandiay naal naahee milna, nahee mannanna, Jo Sikh mile so mail laina. Vadheek dikkat naahee karni. Mera hukam hai sangat. Sammat 1758 miti Fago 10, satran Ath 8."

    This is its translation.

    Ek Oankar Satguru ji. This is the command of Siri Guru ji (for) Bhai Mihar Chand and Karam Chand Guru shall protect you. Remember and recite Guru your life shall become worthwhile. YOU ARE MY KHALSA. Your name has been proposed for arranging 101 Rupees for (procuring) an elephant. On seeing this command immediately send a draft, and anything else offered in the name of the Guru, you should bring with you. Those of you who will come adorning weapons shall be blessed, their efforts shall bear fruit and their loyalty to Guru shall be upheld. Anything offered in the name of Guru is not to be handed over to anyone else. And you should not socialise with a Masand or a Masand follower nor honour them. Any Sikh who intends to join (sangat) should be admitted, you should not create too much hinderance. This is my command to the Sangat. Sammat(the Indian Bikrami calendar) 1758 Date Fago(Faggan the last month of the Indian year) 10 (Western calendar 6 February 1702) Lines eight 8.

    This letter is in the Harimandar Sahib Patna (Hukamname edited by Ganda Singh, Hukamnama No. 55, published by Punjabi University Patiala, 1967)
    Very important points that emerge from this Hukamnama are:

    1. This is an actual document signed by tenth Guru ji nearly 3 years after the Baisakhi 1699 rather than some doubtful Rahitnama hence reflecting the actual view or attitude towards the Sikhs to whom letter was wirtten.

    2. The letter was written to two persons who from their name are obviously not Singhs but with 'Chand' surname hence not amritdhari.

    3. The most odd thing is that Guru ji clearly says "Tusi Mera Khalsa Ho" ie You are my Khalsa". This is unusual in the sense that it means Guruji was not reserving the term Khalsa only for Amritdharis but for some Sahejdhari Sikhs as well.
    Source:: Sikhism Philosophy Network http://www.sikhism.us/hard-talk/6231-sehajdhari-khalsa.html

    4. Guru ji appears to be more concerned about by-passing the Masands for remitting the offerings directly to Guru ji rather than anything such as urge them to get baptised.

    5. In terms of physical appearance (such as kakkaars etc) again Guruji is more particular about the Sikhs arriving with weapons on their person rather than fomally being baptised and bearing "Singh" surname.

    6. In order to secure against any forgery Guru ji put his characteristic Nissan (usually brief Mool Mantar in his own hand) on the letter and even gave the number of lines of text in the letter as 8 at the end of the letter. This was the usual security arrangement. Comparison with numerous other such letters by Guru ji confirms that this is an authentic letter.

    7. The rigid definition of a Khalsa that we are now given to accept does not seem to apply here. The main criteria for a Khalsa Guru ji appears to be emphasising is not to use the Masand channel to approach Guruji but to have direct connection with Guru ji. Indeed this is what the word "Khalisah" meant in the then existing usage of this term in the Mughal revenue administration of that time.
    Source:: Sikhism Philosophy Network http://www.sikhism.us/showthread.php?t=6231

    Similarly there is another letter written to the Sangat in Dhaka (Bangladesh) addressed to Bhai Brindaban and Gulal Chand (ibid. Hukamnama 57) with almost identical text such as "Tusi mera khalsa ho" and commanding again 101 rupees to be arranged and coming with weapons on and not socialising with Masands.

    Source: Tapoban.org
     
  14. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh United States
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    Re: Sehajdhari Sikhs.

    Kul ji,

    Guru Fateh.

    Thanks for sharing. It was not difficult, was it? :)

    Did you ever have kesh or never did?

    Who made the decision for you not having kesh?

    Do your parents and your siblings have Kesh?

    Now, please share your views about Sikhi and why keeping Kesh should or should not be the prerequisite?

    Once again, only by interacting we can understand Sikhi and its values. I think that is the reason you started the thread for which I am thankful to you.


    Tejwant Singh
     
  15. Kuls1980

    Kuls1980
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    Re: Sehajdhari Sikhs.


    Did you ever have kesh or never did? I never did, i was born with no hair.

    Who made the decision for you not having kesh? I was born with it.

    Do your parents and your siblings have Kesh?
    No, they were all born with no hair, we are a family of no hair

    Does that answer your questions.:)
     
  16. Randip Singh

    Randip Singh
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    Re: Sehajdhari Sikhs.

    Let us not bash Mona's.

    It is a fact that so called Sehajhdhari's looked after Sikh shrines when Sikhs were hiding in Jungles.

    We should be welcoming them into the Sikh fold and encouraging them, not deriding them.:ice:
     
  17. Tejwant Singh

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    Re: Sehajdhari Sikhs.

    Kul ji,

    Guru Fateh.

    Wow! how interesting!

    What is the medical term of people like you and your family who are born without hair?

    Do you know how many people in the world are born like that?

    Is this phenomena only in your family or is it also on your mum's and dad's side as well?

    Is it due to absence of some specific gene? If it is, can you pls give me its name so I can learn more about it?

    I am sure the shampoo manufacturing companies must not be happy with you guys.:)

    Thanks

    Tejwant Singh
     
  18. Kuls1980

    Kuls1980
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    Re: Sehajdhari Sikhs.

    Tejwant Singh

    Yeah I think it’s a miracle of God. The condition, I really don’t know about the condition, but seems like you have plenty of time on your hands, perhaps you could research this condition for me and let me know what it is. That will be great. Well I don’t know about shampoo manufactures, why do you work for a shampoo company?
     
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  19. Tejwant Singh

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    Re: Sehajdhari Sikhs.


    Kulsi ji

    Guru Fateh.

    I apologise if I have offended you in any way about the hairless condition of yourself and your family. Although I fail to understand this unsual phenomena as God's miracle. Well as Gurbani says," Tera bhana meetha lagei".

    I respect your intentions of not sharing how it all happened. I am sorry as I do not know why this occured so I can not help you researching it and finding out the reason. Only you with the help of your doctors can do that. No one else.

    No, I do not work for any shampoo manufacturing company. It was just to lighten up what you and your family must be going through, not to mock you nor your family in anyway. I mean having no hair must be painful during the summer time.

    I apologise once again if I have hurt yours and your family's feelings in any way or form. It was not my intention.

    Good luck in your journey.

    Tejwant Singh
     
  20. Archived_Member4

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    Re: Sehajdhari Sikhs.

    In this Hukam can someone point out where Guru ji uses the word Sejadhari. Fact is the word was not used so no one can say they were Sejadhari Sikhs. If you guys want to keep saying there are Sejadhari Sikhs then presnet Hukams that has the word Sejadhari written in it. Otherwise you are distorting Guru ji's Hukam to fit your teachings.

    This Hukam was specific to two Individuals. Guru Sahib has the right to call anyone a Khalsa or not. This Hukam does not show other people that have not taken amrit are also considered Khalsa. All this Hukam shows is that these two individuals were taken as Khalsa for their actions and commitment towards Guru. You cannot take this Hukam and apply it to others who have not taken Amrit and call them Khalsa. If you do then you have taken the position of the Tenth Nanak; you claim to have the status as the tenth Guru.
     
  21. Archived_member7

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    Re: Sehajdhari Sikhs.

    Singh Veerji pls go through the Hukam nama once more :

    Ek Oankar Satguru ji. Siri Guru ji di agaya hai Bhai Mihar Chand Karam Chand, Guru rakhega. Guru Guru japna janam saurega. Tusi mera Khalsa ho
     

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