Sehajdhari Sikhs

[Archived_Member4]

Re: Sehajdhari Sikhs.

Singh Veerji pls go through the Hukam nama once more :

Ek Oankar Satguru ji. Siri Guru ji di agaya hai Bhai Mihar Chand Karam Chand, Guru rakhega. Guru Guru japna janam saurega. Tusi mera Khalsa ho

Yes RajKhalsa ji these two individuals are Khalsa because Guru ji issued a Hukam to these two individuals where Guru ji calls them Khalsa. But you cannot say by this Hukam other individuals who have not taken amrit can be Khalsa. This Hukam is specifically to Bhai Mihar Chand and Karam Chand and no one else. Guru Sahib was specific for a reason here and please don't distort the Hukam to mean something other than it says.

Also it does not say anything about Sehajdari Sikhs, so like I said from the start there is no such thing as Sehajdari Sikh, only Sikh. If you have a Hukam that mentions the word sehajdari then myself and rest of the sangat will like to see it. Otherwise this word is just made up by some people for whatever reasons.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Re: Sehajdhari Sikhs.

The word SEHAJ in Gurbani of SGGS is something so very very difficult to attain.....someone with SEHAJ is already close to being a Brahmgyani/Sant/Gurmukh...adn since there are no such humans except the SIKH GURUS....just goes to show the Spiritual Height and stature of a SEHAJDHAREE..as per Gurbani SGGS is....

BUT surprisingly the numbers of "sehajdharees" seem to run into the millions..at last count about 20 million...out of total sikh population of 25 million or so....

A "SIKH" who cuts his hair daily..or trims his beard daily....can hardly be said to be .."slowly....following on the path towards Sikhi... this is more akin to the saying..Nau so chooha kha ke Hajj nu challee...or what the Catholics do..commit sins..and go see the priest every Sunday and get them..Forgiven..wipe the slate clean..WOW..Sehajdharee Catholics !! just they NEVER use the term..just "catholics"....

Isnt it strange that no other religions has any such "sehajdharees..." ?? You are either YES or NO...no White or Black...NO...grey....I havent come across a Sehajdharee Muslim..who is slowly following the path to islam..and eating pork.....on a daily basis..YET insisting I am muslim.....only "Sehajdharee Muslim "... I TOO LOVE the PROPHET !! can anybody stop me from loving the Prophet...:welcome: Yes sir..no sehajdharee hindus..christians..p{censored}es..zoroastrians..radhasomis..namdharees..etc etc etc..ONLY SIKHS !!

2. Follow the Path....of the SGGS...as best as you can....only YOU answer to the GURU....let no man hamper your progress...but DONT " play devils advocate" either....:welcome: THE GURU LOVES YOU..and ME..the Mona as well a s the Keshdharee..the Paapee as well as the Saint...A:: humans are Brothers.. SONS/DAUGHTERS :}{}{}f the same PITA....

 

[sadhu]

Re: Sehajdhari Sikhs.

kuls1980 ji

You can shave your head, and still you can be a 'SIKH',
DONT WORRY ABOUT YOUR HAIR TOO MUCH.

 

[Kuls1980]

Re: Sehajdhari Sikhs.

Guru Fetha to everyone.

I will like to say thank you to this forum, for answering this question and apologies to everyone if I sounded sarcastic. It just proves me wrong and how opened minded people are. I have never tried to offend any one but if I have, t would like to make an apology. I’m here to be educated. To Kds1980, I apologies, if I made any mockery of any type and thank you for giving me the link and I had some time to look through it last night. Thank you again to everyone.

Featha and God bless you all.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Re: Sehajdhari Sikhs.

KULS1980..thats the Spirit of SPN... glad you got it right.
We are ALL SIKHS....no matter what....the SIKH HIGHWAY is full of all types of vehicles...bullocvk carts..horse carriages..Porches..Feraris..huge 40 wheeler trucks..bicycles..pedestrians..paraplegics on wheelchairs...soem with cut hair..minus hair..cut *****..minus ******..extra ****** etc etc..ALL are SIKHS..equally LOVED by the CREATOR..Manas kee jaat sabh ek pehchanbo..SARBATT DA BHALLA !!!
Carry on...maybe someday the GURU will really meet up with you....
Chardeekalla ALWAYS....VIVA SPN....:happy:

 

[kds1980]

Re: Sehajdhari Sikhs.

Guru Fetha to everyone.

I will like to say thank you to this forum, for answering this question and apologies to everyone if I sounded sarcastic. It just proves me wrong and how opened minded people are. I have never tried to offend any one but if I have, t would like to make an apology. I’m here to be educated. To Kds1980, I apologies, if I made any mockery of any type and thank you for giving me the link and I had some time to look through it last night. Thank you again to everyone.

Featha and God bless you all.

I too want to apologise for rude replies.The problem is that from past 4 years I have seen many people just start a thread not learn or to ask question but Just for time pass.Many people here had has there own agenda and always ask questions Just to annoy posters.

 

[Kuls1980]

Re: Sehajdhari Sikhs.

Guru Fetha

Kds1980 ji

I was not here to annoy any one, it was a genuine question but it went all fiery. Don’t get me wrong, I do like to annoy forums by posting stupid threads, this forum is not the place. You have a group of very intelligent people on this forum and their open minds encourage people like me. The link you have sent me is very interesting and educational. Thank you.

Fetha and God bless.

 

[spnadmin]

Re: Sehajdhari Sikhs.

kuls ji

I actually think I understand what you are talking about -- thank you for understanding that we are not the same kind of forum. :welcome:

 

[Archived_Member4]

Re: Sehajdhari Sikhs.

The word SEHAJ in Gurbani of SGGS is something so very very difficult to attain.....someone with SEHAJ is already close to being a Brahmgyani/Sant/Gurmukh...adn since there are no such humans except the SIKH GURUS....just goes to show the Spiritual Height and stature of a SEHAJDHAREE..as per Gurbani SGGS is....

BUT surprisingly the numbers of "sehajdharees" seem to run into the millions..at last count about 20 million...out of total sikh population of 25 million or so....

A "SIKH" who cuts his hair daily..or trims his beard daily....can hardly be said to be .."slowly....following on the path towards Sikhi... this is more akin to the saying..Nau so chooha kha ke Hajj nu challee...or what the Catholics do..commit sins..and go see the priest every Sunday and get them..Forgiven..wipe the slate clean..WOW..Sehajdharee Catholics !! just they NEVER use the term..just "catholics"....

Isnt it strange that no other religions has any such "sehajdharees..." ?? You are either YES or NO...no White or Black...NO...grey....I havent come across a Sehajdharee Muslim..who is slowly following the path to islam..and eating pork.....on a daily basis..YET insisting I am muslim.....only "Sehajdharee Muslim "... I TOO LOVE the PROPHET !! can anybody stop me from loving the Prophet...:welcome: Yes sir..no sehajdharee hindus..christians..p{censored}es..zoroastrians..radhasomis..namdharees..etc etc etc..ONLY SIKHS !!

2. Follow the Path....of the SGGS...as best as you can....only YOU answer to the GURU....let no man hamper your progress...but DONT " play devils advocate" either....:welcome: THE GURU LOVES YOU..and ME..the Mona as well a s the Keshdharee..the Paapee as well as the Saint...A:: humans are Brothers.. SONS/DAUGHTERS :}{}{}f the same PITA....

Gyani ji thanks for the detailed answer. Your post are always fun to read. Gyani ji I see you have given a reference to Sehaj being in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, can you present the ang or angs where Guru ji speak of Sehaj. Also if you know where Guru ji uses the word Sehajdhari in Bani or does Guru ji use it all, can you present these ang(s) as well.

Thanks

 

[Archived_Member4]

Re: Sehajdhari Sikhs.

Guru Fetha

Kds1980 ji

I was not here to annoy any one, it was a genuine question but it went all fiery. Don’t get me wrong, I do like to annoy forums by posting stupid threads, this forum is not the place. You have a group of very intelligent people on this forum and their open minds encourage people like me. The link you have sent me is very interesting and educational. Thank you.

Fetha and God bless.

Kuls ji when I think of sarbatt da bhalla in this situation then that would mean not to annoy any forums. Why would you just specifically think this forum should not be annoyed where its alright to put other forums through annoyance. Sarbatt da bhalla means the well being of everyone. In this case the well being of every forums

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Re: Sehajdhari Sikhs.

The word SEHAJ in Gurbani of SGGS is something so very very difficult to attain.....someone with SEHAJ is already close to being a Brahmgyani/Sant/Gurmukh...adn since there are no such humans except the SIKH GURUS....just goes to show the Spiritual Height and stature of a SEHAJDHAREE..as per Gurbani SGGS is....

BUT surprisingly the numbers of "sehajdharees" seem to run into the millions..at last count about 20 million...out of total sikh population of 25 million or so....

A "SIKH" who cuts his hair daily..or trims his beard daily....can hardly be said to be .."slowly....following on the path towards Sikhi... this is more akin to the saying..Nau so chooha kha ke Hajj nu challee...or what the Catholics do..commit sins..and go see the priest every Sunday and get them..Forgiven..wipe the slate clean..WOW..Sehajdharee Catholics !! just they NEVER use the term..just "catholics"....

Isnt it strange that no other religions has any such "sehajdharees..." ?? You are either YES or NO...no White or Black...NO...grey....I havent come across a Sehajdharee Muslim..who is slowly following the path to islam..and eating pork.....on a daily basis..YET insisting I am muslim.....only "Sehajdharee Muslim "... I TOO LOVE the PROPHET !! can anybody stop me from loving the Prophet...:welcome: Yes sir..no sehajdharee hindus..christians..p{censored}es..zoroastrians..radhasomis..namdharees..etc etc etc..ONLY SIKHS !!

2. Follow the Path....of the SGGS...as best as you can....only YOU answer to the GURU....let no man hamper your progress...but DONT " play devils advocate" either....:welcome: THE GURU LOVES YOU..and ME..the Mona as well a s the Keshdharee..the Paapee as well as the Saint...A:: humans are Brothers.. SONS/DAUGHTERS :}{}{}f the same PITA....

Gyani ji,

Guru Fateh.

Well said as usual.

As you have already mentioned what Sehaj means according to SGGS.. Allow me to add my 2 cent worth to your excellent post.

Sehaj in Sehajdhari is not the same as to attain Sehaj- Gurmat Fulcrum- the prefect balance in the MIRI PIRI way of life.

Sehaj in Sehajdhari means one who is slow to comply. This phrase was coined after Amrit Sanchar in 1699 as not all Sikhs were then ready to take Khandei de Pahul, hoping that all those who have not complied, would in a near future, which they refused and now unfortunately ithas become a title for those who refuse to have a Sikhi baana but claim to keep the Sikhi rehat. Little are they aware that Sikhi is not about any title nor about any destination but just about the journey.

Some of the Sehajdharis also claim to love and respect our first nine Gurus but are very reluctant to accept Guru Gobind Singh ji. It is like loving the roots of the tree but rejecting its fruit. True love towards anyone or anything is to comply with what love demands and is worth changing for.

Is this a paradox or oxy{censored}ic? It's only for the seekers to decide.

One more interesting point to notice is that the jews who have embraced Jesus as their messiah do not call themselves Christians but Messianic Jews which is another interesting term.

Regards

Tejwant Singh

 

[spnadmin]

Re: Sehajdhari Sikhs.

Tejwant ji

I hope I don't put my foot in my mouth with my reply. Here is where the problem becomes a knotty one for the 20 million or so who are not keshdhari or amritdhari (spelling). My perception is based on reading through the forum for a couple of years.

There are scores and scores of individuals who have been born into Sikh families, including those who were born in the diaspora or even in India, who are now feeling as if the recent federal court case in India is defining who they are. They grow up thinking themselves Sikhs. And read the newspaper to find out they are not considered Sikhs by some measure of debate in India and also in the many forums they belong to.

Their question is genuine -- How could it be that all of a sudden I am not a Sikh? That is what they ask and are perplexed. The legal and political aspects of the question really do not affect Sikhs in the diaspora directly. But...

The context of the question gets lost in the discussion. The determination of Who Is A Sikh has greater bearing in India because religious identity is determined in law and the SGPC was asked to define this for the courts and the legislatures. Most in the diaspora would not be affected. In the diaspora the question has bearing for a different reason. There the question becomes one of whether one will be shunned or blacklisted in gurdwara (for weddings, naming of children, being with sangat). In both cases, diaspora or not, there are many sehajdhari who are the backbone of gurdwara management and seva, and their identity is culturally that of a Sikh.

You know all this. Forgive me. What has happened is that religious, spiritual, political, cultural aspects of the question are now inter-secting and it is confusing many people. I don't know how cthings an ultimately be untangled or resolved.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Re: Sehajdhari Sikhs.

Tejwant ji

I hope I don't put my foot in my mouth with my reply. Here is where the problem becomes a knotty one for the 20 million or so who are not keshdhari or amritdhari (spelling). My perception is based on reading through the forum for a couple of years.

There are scores and scores of individuals who have been born into Sikh families, including those who were born in the diaspora or even in India, who are now feeling as if the recent federal court case in India is defining who they are. They grow up thinking themselves Sikhs. And read the newspaper to find out they are not considered Sikhs by some measure of debate in India and also in the many forums they belong to.

Their question is genuine -- How cold it be that all of a sudden I am not a Sikh? That is what they ask and are perplexed. The legal and political aspects of the question really do not affect Sikhs in the diaspora directly. But...

The context of the question gets lost in the discussion. The determination of Who Is A Sikh has greater bearing in India because religious identity is determined in law and the SGPC was asked to define this for the courts and the legislatures. Most in the diaspora would not be affected. In the diaspora the question has bearing for a different reason. There the question becomes one of whether one will be shunned or blacklisted in gurdwara (for weddings, naming of children, being with sangat). in both cases, diaspora or not, there are many sejhajdhari who are the backbone of gurdwara management and seva, and their identity is culturally that of a Sikh.

You know all this. Forgive me. What has happened is that religious, spiritual, political, cultural aspects of the question are now inter-secting and it is confusing many people. I don't know how can ultimately be untangled or resolved.

Antonia ji,
Guru Fateh.

Interesting pondering thoughts. People who live in India may know better but if I am not mistaken, Sikhism is not even considered an independent religion but a part of Hinduism in the Indian constitution.

So these disputes in the lower courts are more for the political reasons which puts the definition of who is a Sikh and who isn't on the interesting cross roads.

In my opinion this intricate web of Sikhi,Sikh and Khalsa along with the authority of SGPC and the Jathedars of Takhats who ex-communicate Sikhs without giving it a second thought ala The Catholic Church is the pondering era for all of us who call ourselves Sikhs in different forms.

Just thinking aloud....

Tejwant Singh

 

[spnadmin]

Re: Sehajdhari Sikhs.

Tejwant ji

It is a pondering era. And very confusing for many people. So many crossroads; so many things pulling away from the center.

Antonia

 

[Kuls1980]

Re: Sehajdhari Sikhs.

Kuls ji when I think of sarbatt da bhalla in this situation then that would mean not to annoy any forums. Why would you just specifically think this forum should not be annoyed where its alright to put other forums through annoyance. Sarbatt da bhalla means the well being of everyone. In this case the well being of every forums

Singh JI

I understand where you are coming from, I fully believe in sarbatt da bhalla but many forums do not understand that. I will only post stupid threads to annoy other forums just to open their eyes to the world and not just blanket them self’s to the real issues. This is an on going argument which is encouraging people to move away from the Sikh dharma. More and more Sikh families in India are converting to Christianity and other faiths. I have nothing against that, each to their own but why are they doing this? I was born in a Sikh family where my ****her is an Amrthdhari Sikh and I’m a mona, but my father has never forced me to grow my hair or force his views on me, he has kindly told me about the Sikh dharma and the understanding of banni. I am no expert on Banni, nor I am an expert on the Sikh dharma but I am here to be educated and certain forums will push you away. So that is when I will post annoying threads.

In this case, it was a genuine question because this is the only forum where I get good and practical answers to my questions.

In the future I will keep that in mind and think twice before I post any annoying thread on any forum.

I hope I have not offended you.

Fetha and God belss

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Re: Sehajdhari Sikhs.

Gyani ji thanks for the detailed answer. Your post are always fun to read. Gyani ji I see you have given a reference to Sehaj being in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, can you present the ang or angs where Guru ji speak of Sehaj. Also if you know where Guru ji uses the word Sehajdhari in Bani or does Guru ji use it all, can you present these ang(s) as well.

Thanks

Singh Ji,
Gurfateh ji.

The SEHAJ in Gurbani of SGGS is NOT the "sehaj in ....sehajdharee". This sehaj is about ......SLOW ADOPTER..One who adopts...changes..slowly....
And naturally therefore there would be no mention of such "sehjadharees" in Gurbani. This is a term for a group that claims it is slowly adopting Sikhi/Gurmatt and WILL become KHALSA..eventually ??? Anyway imho this term is much abused and mostly self-gratyfying..apologetically used by many. Imho..a SIKH shouldnt need to be apologetic..justify himself..be defensive etc...JUST BE WHAT YOU ARE.

2. The Court battle/debate is only applicable to INDIA...as the "definition" of SIKH is solely for the SGPC /DGMC and other Gurdwara Elections...and to gain admission to Schools Colleges run by the SGPC/Gurdwaras. They have decided that a SIKH is ONLY those who are Amrtidharees/Keshadharees. To get admission to their collegs/universities/ or get elcted to positions one has to follow their Guidelines. Its their RIGHT. Period. but that doesnt affect others who are simply SIKHS in their own "Right"...All these can carry on..along the Path..and Guru Ji will receive them as and when HE WILLS.

I have started a New Thread on SEHAJ in Gurbani and SGGS as it is a different concept alltogether. Hopefully I will be able to add Gurbani panktees as I go along..Part One is already Up. Part Two follows shortly.:welcome::happy: