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Phantom Noises Heard In The Morning

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by Sherdil, Apr 14, 2016.

  1. Sherdil

    Sherdil
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    Some people claim to hear strange noises during early morning and meditation. They consider it to be a manifestation of the Anhaad Naad. How can this be if the Dasam Duaar (10th gate), through which we enter the Lord's abode, is only opened after one overcomes the pull of Maya on the other 9 holes (5 senses) of the body? Hearing of course is one of these 5 senses.

    How does one differentiate this from the hypnogogic and hypnopompic auditory hallucinations experienced by narcoleptics?

    Why does the Anhaad Naad have to sound like anything at all? Why can't it simply be the silence, from which all sound arises?
     
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  3. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    you mean their senses, once being played with and manipulated, start to register false or non existent sounds? how strange!

    What is Anhaad Naad? where did it come from? Is it a Sikh philosophy or something we borrowed from someone else?
    with great difficulty?
    its just not glamorous enough, I mean nothing is a bit boring, celestial sounds should be bangs and cymbals, harp sounds, celestial maidens singing, etc etc.
     
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  4. Sherdil

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    Ah yes, the celestial music is akin to a marching band and Waheguru Himself is the field commander. This is something you have to experience to believe for sure!

    It makes me wonder though if we aren't chasing carrots on a stick. Those of us with preconceived notions of a "divine experience" may in fact trick ourselves into believing that we are indeed experiencing something out of the ordinary.

    If logic follows, then it goes without saying that deaf people are at a loss when it comes to "hearing" this music.
     
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  5. Harkiran Kaur

    Harkiran Kaur Canada
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    What are the five senses? What is it that makes a sound? What you 'hear' is fully internal. There is in fact no 'out there' it's all quiet. It's because sound exists only as pressure waves until it reaches a receiver... Your ear is not the receiver. In your ear it changes form from pressure waves to electrical signals. It doesn't become what you consider audible sound until your brain deciphers it. Even then, from the outside its still electrical signal. There never was a 'thing' called sound. It's only your brains INTERNAL perception that makes it sound. Cut open a brain of a dead person do you see the 'sounds' that were in there?

    This is the same thing with sight and all the five senses!!

    When you still your mind you can perceive internal vibrations, and decipher those in the same manner but they are not coming from your ears. Those vibrations are the vibrations of the cosmos of reality.

    From spirituality.indiatimes.com:

    "Naad" ( Punjabi ਨਾਦੰ ) means "the cosmic sound" or "vibrations of the cosmos". Gurbani says that: "Sing the Glorious Praises of the Immaculate True Lord forever, and the Immaculate Sound-current of the Naad shall vibrate within." (SGGS p 121) The sound of the Cosmos can resonate within if one "tunes into this energy". Only by following the rules of nature and realising the patterns and disciplines of the cosmos can one find this hidden energy of internal sound. Only through meditation, external singing and reciting can the bombardment of random noise in the mind be subdued. This internal noise that normally overwhelms the mind can be silenced and one can enjoy and hear the "anhad Naad" ("unheard sound"); this is sound of the cosmos within the mind. It is not to be confused with external vibrations - Naad is vibration within the mind.

    To start these internal harmonies one needs to recite melodies with their own voice; the singing of Gurbani kirtan or mantra will invoke the internal symphonies. The Guru tells us: "Repeating the Naam, the Unstruck Sound-current of the Naad resounds."" (SGGS p 1144) The external melodies resonate and "kick start" the Naad within. Also, Gurbani reminds us to: "Sing the Sweet Ambrosial Praises of the Lord's Kirtan; day and night, the Sound-current of the Naad will resonate and resound." (SGGS p 1219) When on engages in the Lord's praises and sings in remembrance of Him, then the Naad will begin to be heard within.

    The following words in Japji Sahib Pauri 27 "vaajay naad anayk asankhaa kaytay vaavanhaaray. kaytay raag paree si-o kahee-an kaytay gaavanhaaray." which translates to: "Numerous Sound-currents vibrate simultaneously - Where are the musicians? So many melodious Ragas are sung – Where are the singers?" and also Japji Sahib Pauri 29 "bhugat gi-aan da-i-aa bhandaaran ghat ghat vaajeh naad" which means "Make wisdom your food and compassion your attendant; The Sound-current vibrates in each and every heart."

    Anhad Naad, the Cosmic Symphony
    In a world full of cacophony and chaos, it does seem a little odd to talk about ‘soundless sound’. Interestingly, soundless sound, or "anaahat", has been given equal importance in almost all systems of faith.

    Chanting is articulated sound. Aad aneel anad anahat Jug-jug eko ves sings Guru Nanak four times in Japji, The opening hymn/prayer in Guru Granth Sahib. The concept is echoed in other cultures also.

    The Bible states: “In the beginning was the word” (John 1.1). Vedic scriptures also affirm that the entire cosmic creation began with sound (Brihadrayanaka Upanishad 1.2.4.). ‘God is word’ denotes the physicality of sound but the concept of nada, that ‘God is sound’ is more subtle, because it is related to the Sanskrit word nadi, denoting our stream of consciousness. Before explaining the concept of ajapa jaap, or soundless sound, we must know about the power of the sacred word or sound.

    Steven J Rosen, who wrote The Hidden Glory of India, says that a device called tonoscope, graphically demonstrates the power of classical syllables to evoke forms in a physical medium. The tonoscope is a tube suspended over a thin membrane and covered by a layer of fine dust. When sounds are broadcast through the tube, corresponding designs form in the dust that can tell us something about the initial sound that went through the tube. “While most sounds produce random ill-defined forms, the vibrations of a referable incantation produce quite a different result. If the sounds of mantras can activate a gross element such as dust, one can only imagine the power such vibrations have on human consciousness,” he says.

    The power of the spoken word, especially japa, has been described in other cultures also. Saint Paul said: “Everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved” (Romans 10.15). “From the rising of the sun to its setting the name of the Lord is to be praised,” said King David (Psalms 113.3). The Buddha declared: “All who sincerely call upon my name will come to me after death and I will take them to paradise,” (Vows of Amida: Buddha 18).

    "Ajapa jap" and "anhad naad" are basically related to electrophysiology. Silent chanting generates a kind of tapas, which flows in a rhythmic wave pattern. Hans Berger, a German physicist, discovered that not only all living tissues are sensitive to electric currents, but after a certain time the tissue itself generated small voltages. Today, Hans Berger’s experiment has been broken up into many components by instruments that can detect fluctuations as small as one ten-millionth of a volt. It would take about 13 million of such currents to light a small flash light bulb.

    The audibility of sound waves depends on their frequency and velocity. A sound wave may be audible or inaudible, depending upon the medium through which it travels. All sound is the result of some sort of striking. That is why it has a beginning and an end. But if there could be a sound which is unstruck, then it will have neither a beginning nor an end. Heard and unheard both, it will definitely be imperishable.

    A perfect example of soundless sound is described by late Prof. Puran Singh in his book The Story of Rama. Puran Singh arranged a series of lectures by Swami Ram Tirth in Japan which evoked tremendous response.

    Prof. Puran Singh, a bio-scientist who authored Swami Ram’s biography, writes: One night after dinner when Swami Ram went to sleep, around 12.30 at night, he (Puran Singh) heard a feeble sound as though someone is saying ‘Ram….Ram….Ram.’ Puran Singh got up and opened the door – but no one was there in the corridor. After a gap of about half an hour he again heard the same sound. This time he entered the room of Swami Ram. To his utter surprise he discovered that though Swami Ram Tirth was fast asleep, the room was resounding with Ram Naam which was coming from his body rather than from his mouth.
     
  6. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    a miracle!
     
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  7. Sherdil

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    Harkiran ji,

    A cursory overview of the websites you have cited calls into question their reputablity. We are encouraged to give our own understanding, instead of copying and pasting from websites.

    Naad = Sound
    Anhaad Naad = Sound without beginning
    Anahat Naad = Sound without end

    Both Anhaad Naad and Anahat Naad can be given the connotation of limitless, self-emanating sound.

    Does silence have a beginning or an end? Is silence self-emanating? Do we tune ourselves into this cosmic "sound" by becoming silent ourselves?
     
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  8. Harkiran Kaur

    Harkiran Kaur Canada
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    The point is there is no sound as sound is a purely subjective thing. There only exists vibrations not sound. We interpret vibrations pressure waves in a medium (air) as sound only once those pressure waves are turned into electrical signals and then we 'perceive' it as audible sound. In reality however there is no sound. So then what is silence?

    Edit: also, the top part prior to the website link, WAS my own comment...
     
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  9. Sherdil

    Sherdil
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    I believe internal silence to be achieved when we have control over our mind.

    To a deaf person, the world is silent but the mind may still be loud and chaotic. Thus, the Anhaad Naad isn't "heard".
     
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  10. Harkiran Kaur

    Harkiran Kaur Canada
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    Nothing is actually heard (not even what we say is sound).... it's all subjective and perception. Detune from one thing, and tune into another, which is more primal. Everything is related. Everything is vibration. You feel heat, see light etc. And they too are all vibration. And they too, are purely subjective experience internally. For example, no light actually makes it to the back of your brain where your occipital lobe is... nope its very dark in there! The subjective experience of what you think is light, is merely INTERNAL. It's a picture created in your mind (not anything tangible in a physical sense) which you interpreted from the electrical signals passed from your optic nerve. But what you see as light, is really just frequency. Same with sound.

    If a tree falls in the forest and there is nobody there to hear it, did it make a sound? Answer is no... because though it made waves in a medium, no receiver was there to translate those waves into subjective experience.

    The experience of anhaad naad is no different. The only thing which changed is the source of the frequency / vibration. The subjective experience is still internal. (but so is everything) The primal frequency / vibration however has no beginning and no end. This is not purely a metaphor for a calm state of mind. It's a very real thing which has been experienced by many people.
     
  11. Harry Haller

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    given that Sikhism was a religion that was supposed to represent the common sons and daughters of the Punjab, those soil toiling, hard working fol would have been able to appreciate the simplicity that is Sikhism.

    I wonder what they would have made of the Vedic slants above
     
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  12. Harkiran Kaur

    Harkiran Kaur Canada
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    Actually what I wrote above is science. But I want to say that truth is truth no matter what background it comes from. Gurbani says there is a link between consciousness and matter and that too only recently was found in science. If some Vedic text also declared it prior, doesn't make it wrong, nor against Sikhi. Just because something is Vedic, doesn't mean we have to disagree with everything. (note I have no idea what is in Vedic texts as I have not studied them).

    By the way nice picture of the first Sikhs you have. You just painted them as all being too dumb to grasp anything. Sikhi is anything but simplistic. If you just follow rehet maryada and not delve into Gurbani then yes it can be simple. Just follow rules and nothing else. If Gurbani was meant to be simplistic, then it would not be a whole granth of poetic metaphors such that even today we are all disagreeing on it. Even if it were just some huge psychology book delving into the human mind and had nothing at all to do with philosophy or spirituality - in that case it's even MORE complicated as you have would have to apply deep layers of cryptic metaphors to make it work! Whereas the spiritual messages are a little more clear.
     
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  13. chazSingh

    chazSingh Ireland
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    thank you Harkiran for bringing something more to this forum that just the very basic "this is just vedic stuff thought sikhi was different" argument across
     
  14. chazSingh

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    are you referring to me? if so, please state where i said that strange noises in the night are anhad naad...if you can;t find a quote, please close the thread...and re-open the thread that deserves to stay open...i.e the one you suddenly closed.

    also, your statement above is filled with contradiction

    you said "Some people claim to hear strange noises during early morning and meditation. They consider it to be a manifestation of the Anhaad Naad. How can this be"

    then go on to say at later "Why does the Anhaad Naad have to sound like anything at all? Why can't it simply be the silence, from which all sound arises?"

    :)

    then you say "How can this be if the Dasam Duaar (10th gate), through which we enter the Lord's abode, is only opened after one overcomes the pull of Maya on the other 9 holes (5 senses) of the body?"

    sorry, did someone claim to have experienced anhad naad without pulling their attention away from the 9 other doors of the body? or are you just assuming this?


    i don't know...can you differentiate? are you narcoleptic? have you experienced the auditory hallucination for yourself? please tell us about it...what is it like?

    if you haven't....then how on earth will you ever differentiate...

    can you differentiate the taste of an apple and an orange without tasting them both? :)

    i dont think it needs to sound like anything at all...and i think that even if you have an audible experience it doesnt mean it is a physical sound created by striking objects...and you're hearing through your physical ears.
    anhad naad in its definition is described as unstruck...just by that definition it is something un-imaginable...something different to what we come across daily..

    whether that be an auditory experience...an energy, a vibration, an awakening of some sort...a state of being...or whatever...
    but what we do know is...it is something that will take you back to God Consciousness...it has that power...hence why shabad is called Guru...


    Dwell upon the Guru, the Guru, the Guru, O my mind.
    (notice hear Guru Ji doest say dwell on the Guru oh my physical ears) :)

    The All-powerful Guru is the Boat to carry us across in this Dark Age of Kali Yuga. Hearing the Word of His Shabad, we are transported into Samaadhi. (ahh ok....its the mind that is doing the hearing..no need for physical ears....and also clear reference to the shabad having the power to transport the mind\soul into samadi)..

    full shabad: SikhiToTheMAX - Enabling Gurmat Knowledge
     
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    #13 chazSingh, Apr 14, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2016
  15. Harkiran Kaur

    Harkiran Kaur Canada
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    Chaz Singh Ji, I think he is referring to my response on the other thread. I was referring to your post where you said that you had experienced sounds during meditation early in the AM. He was dismissing those sounds as just being 'phantom or strange' physical sounds and that your post had nothing to do with the idea of sound being at the basis of creation / manifestation. In essence he was trying to say your post was unrelated to the original post. However, I explained to him that many people have had experiences with non physical 'sounds' which they know were not caused by something in the physical, and that may in fact be related to experience of anhaad naad (and hence, related to the original post of sound being basis of creation). I wasn't referring to you specifically, but just that add 2 + 2 together, deep meditation etc. plus nonphysical frequency which manifests as a subjective experience of 'sound' which is not coming from the physical environment, could in fact be experience of anhaad naad. Doesn't mean that it IS but it could be, and should not be just dismissed because you have not had the experience yourself and want to label it as a hallucination. Who is to even say what a hallucination is? The broad definition just means to experience something which others around you do not. That in my book doesn't mean it isn't REAL however!

    The difference with narcolepsy is that hypnapompic and hypnagogic hallucinations are DIRECTLY related to REM state. They are REM manifestations overlapping the waking state and happen when someone is fully aware but in REM state. Someone with narcolepsy has been diagnosed as crossing into REM while awake and you would KNOW if you were afflicted as hallucinations are the least of the symptoms! Catalepsy is the main symptom. (loss of muscle tone - appearing as of the person is asleep) If someone is meditating and completely awake, they are NOT in REM / dream state so logically, they won't be experiencing REM manifestations. Nor can you even force yourself into REM while awake if you wanted to! So, these sounds experienced by people who are in meditation (or what I label as subjective sound... because it may just be frequency / vibration interpreted by the mind as sound) these are not result of something like narcolepsy. And since vibration / frequency IS the basis of ALL, its very possible that we can experience it.
     
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  16. Harkiran Kaur

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    The highlighted says it all. In fact, the statement above makes sense. As I explained, sound is a completely internal and subjective personal experience of frequency / vibration, which on its own (without a receiver) is actually silent. So yes, silence gives way to 'sound' once you have a receiver. The receiver is not your ear (no physical thing can be a receiver - even a radio 'receiver' is only changing radio frequency into electrical signals and then output through the speakers as pressure waves. The receiver is 'consciousness' that can interpret those waves / vibrations as something subjective.

    Primal silence (as in the vibrations that exist at the base of the Universe) giving way to ALL sound (meaning ALL subjective internal personal experiences as 'sound') makes sense to me. Why can't someone detune from specific frequencies experienced in day to day, and tune into the base frequency / vibrations that give rise to ALL such subjective internal personal experiences we call 'sound'?? And how someone subjectively experiences it might be different from another. Some might 'hear' bells (bells have been described), static sounds, etc. Others might 'feel' the vibrations (even though they are not physical vibrations). etc.

    So yes, anhaad naad CAN be the silent frequency / vibrations from which ALL things (not just sound) manifest. Our experience of the physical realm is entirely subjective but if you pull apart reality, you will see that everything really is just vibration. So my question to you Sherdil Ji is, why do you think someone can not experience that?
     
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  17. Harry Haller

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    on that basis there is no anything then, because you can break everything down to vibrations, if we are going to down this road, why debate anything, its all vibrations...
     
  18. Harry Haller

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    just because one cannot follow your complicated take on Sikhi, does not make one dumb, I struggle to follow it, I am not dumb,
     
    #17 Harry Haller, Apr 14, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2016
  19. chazSingh

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    very well said...

    there seems to be a fare few audible\vibrational\energy type experiences that the truth seeker can be witness to during deep contemplation...

    there is something i describe as like a speeding train...
    being stood at a train station (consciousness \ dyaan \ attention)...and from a distance the train is coming, getting closer, and wooooooooooooosh...it goes by...and something from the train just takes hold of you (consciosness) and whisks you away with it...

    and the mind just thinks....wow....wow...wahe....wahe..waheguru!!!!
     
  20. Harkiran Kaur

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    You can't change reality...sorry LOL. Yes there IS obviously something. But our experience of what is real, is not what is actually real. Its only our subjective experience of what is out there. Take for example certain animals have much larger range of hearing than us. In reality they receive vibrations the SAME as us, but their experience (what they subjectively hear) is different because they can hear frequencies much higher than we can. We receive those same frequencies but when processing them into electrical signals, we lose out. End result is our subjective experience is vastly different from them. They can hear ultrasonic. We can't. Their perception of the world must be completely different than ours. Same as vision. Some animals see in the ultraviolet wavelength. We still receive those wavelengths of light in our eyes. But we lose them in the processing when its transmitted via our optic nerve. End result is we see things much differently than they do. Working with SONAR, I can vouch how light and sound overlap. We can use sound and a SONAR set to build a visual picture of what is around us in the ocean. Different SONARS have different sensitivities. Bats can actually fly by echolocation. Their subjective experience of the world may be closer to what is on a SONAR screen than anything we 'see'. Yet we occupy the same environment.
     
  21. Harkiran Kaur

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    No, you said that the first Sikhs were too simple to understand anything complicated. That's what I was referring to... not YOU. LOL
     

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