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Islam Muslim Friendship "Dilemma"

Discussion in 'Interfaith Dialogues' started by Jaspreet08, May 16, 2008.

  1. Jaspreet08

    Jaspreet08
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    Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
    Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

    I have a Muslim friend who I use to be close with, but due to our studies over the last few years we were separted. We stayed in touch over the phone, though.

    The last six months, I started to explore Sikhi more and more, and now I'm trying to keep kes and wear a turban. I was recently talking to the Babaji at the local Gurdawara and he said something about Muslims that really threw me off.

    He said that Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj said not trust a Muslim because he will betray you as many times as there number of sesame seeds stuck to his arm after dipping it oil.

    I have my doubts about the accuracy of this. In some other forums I read, it said he was referring to the Turks and Pharacis. Well, this friend of mine is nice guy, but he use to make a lot promise that he didn't keep. Nothing serious or anything, but I don't really believe him too much. Now, he wants to a stay with me for a couple of weeks while he studies for a test. I can't tell him no as he is all ready setup to move here.

    I don't know what to do. In friendship you have to have trust, but now it's not there as much as it use to be. How do I walk the fine line between friendship and forgiveness and being careful about he says? What would the Gurus advise in this situation? Is it true about Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj said?

    Any insight will be much appreciated.

    Thank you.

    Sincerely,
    Jaspreet
     
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  3. Harjas Kaur Khalsa

    Harjas Kaur Khalsa
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    This is Kalyug, only trust Guru and Gursikhs. Look at history, it is reality, politics is betrayal. Look at current events missionaries are incredibly deceptive and groom Sikhs for conversion and then lead them to abuse and insult publicly the Guru and Sikh way og life which was formerly loved.

    I think friendships are okay, but to be too involved with people not your own religion leads to political manipulation somewhere down the line, either by the person, or by his friends, or by the society, etc. Your company does have an influence on you. Caution can never be unwelcome. Just be wise.
     
  4. pk70

    pk70
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    Jaspreet ji

    Guru ji never said like that, actually there were Muslims who stood by Guru ji like a rock, a few to mention, like Gani Khan and his brother who went in disguise along with Guru ji to avoid harm to Guru ji, then how we Sikhs can ever forget Peer Budhu Shah ji, who fought with Guru ji side against tyrant Muslims and lost his son. Due to bitter experience during terrible history some people made these comments, these should never be preached as Guru's teaching, it is horrible if any says that. Friends of faiths should be welcome, respect their faith, if they get personal about your faith tell them not to respect each others faith, if they are adamant in behavior, just dump them and move on. All are after all HIS creation !!!
     
  5. Harjas Kaur Khalsa

    Harjas Kaur Khalsa
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    All human beings may be His creation, but the HUT radicals are still raping Sikh girls to force conversions, wearing kara and pretending to be Sikh and doing all sorts of mischief. No one should have their eyes closed in Kalyug under pretense of love. Our youth deserve better advice for walking a treacherous path in a world full of snakes than blind trust. While I believe all religions are inherently spiritual and all people have spiritual potential, we still live in an evil age and politics is a reality. How could I not warn?

    Police protect girls forced to convert to Islam
    Police protect girls forced to convert to Islam| News | This is London

    Muslim Terrorist Groomed Sikh Girl at Brunel University
    Sarabha Panjab: Muslim terrorist groomed Sikh student

    Muslim Extremists Target Students
    Panthic Weekly: Muslim Extremists Target Students

    Forced and coerced Conversions
    Conversions 10 secrets, Islamic Orgs don't want

    Why Sikh and Hindu Girls love Muslim Boys?
    Why Sikh and Hindu girls love Muslims Boys? - Topix

    Every year 100,000 Hindu & Sikh girls are eloping with muslims by way of rape & blackmail
    Every year 100,000 Hindu & Sikh girls are eloping with muslims by way of rape & blackmail. - Reader comments at DanielPipes.org

    Converted Sikh Girls: A Haunting Tragedy
    Converted Sikh Girls: A Haunting Tragedy

    Grooming of white girls for sex is exposed as two Asian men jailed
    Grooming of white girls for sex is exposed as two Asian men jailed - Times Online

    British Sikh Girl Talks About Predatory Muslim Males
    YouTube - British Sikh Girl Talks About Predatory Muslim Males

    Call to Muslims to Seduce Sikh Girls
    Call+to+muslims+to+seduce+sikh+girls+into+islam.jpg (image)

    300 Sikh Girls now trapped in Brothels in Lahore
    Halton Gurudwara Sahib Oakville - NEWS

    The Story of a Sikh Girl Who Was Victimised
    The Story of a Sikh Girl Who Was Victimised - Reader comments at DanielPipes.org
     
  6. Anonymous_Kaur

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    cudnt agree more !! becareful....cos no one cares bwt nyone..it's only guru sahib dats luks after us ..human beings are too obbesseed in worldy affairs...far as i've seen !! manii sikh girls are mates with muslim guys saying dat dey ar onlii firends..n etc...nufin mre ..buh at the end..dey jus doo a runner !!seen it dwn ere...werre i live so dats y i'm saying dis !!bhul chuk maaff karniii !!
     
  7. Jaspreet08

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    Thanks for all the responses, guys. I'm guy and he's a guy. I don't think he will be trying to convert me or anything. You are right though...the only one to fully trust is God and Guruji...rest will come and go. I just wanted to make sure if the statement was true or false. Thanks pk70. I thought along similiar lines.
     
  8. Lucy Ahmed

    Lucy Ahmed
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    I met all kinds of people.
    We just need to learn the individual character and personality.
    It's hard to generalize.

    The most we could do is, to show our own good character.
    It's part of humanity to show compassion to the needy.

    We are all human, and it's part of our human nature.

    Better to keep the friendship...with an open mind.
     
  9. futurekaur

    futurekaur United States
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    Harjas ji;
    it was heartbreaking to read those articles. I had an idea this was going on in the UK but the US too? when I go to my gurdwara I see if I can find out more. We kaurs should do something, to help these girls. The shame is on Sikhs who have misplaced values. There is no honour in letting these women remain captive!
     
  10. carolineislands

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    Harjas is right, caution is called for in this situation. You can't judge people completely by their religion but it is fair to assume some things about them due to their religion. For instance, when you see a Sikh in 5Ks you can assume that person revered the message of the Gurus and considers SGGS the sacred text of their religion. By that you can assume they are at least somewhat bound by the tenants of that religion. By the same token, remember that Islam permits Muslims to deceive or lie to non-muslims under certain circumstances, one being a time of war. Also remember that there are only two kinds of realms in Islamic ideology, "Dar al islam" and "Dar al-harb" - The Realm of Islam and the Realm of War. So as long as you are in a non-Islamic State you are considered to be living in the Land of War and war standards hold. That means that a Muslim is free to deceive and lie to you.

    That is not to say that your friend is a liar or even that he would lie to you. It is to say that the tenants of his religion allow this, and the tennants of his religion also consider you "guilty" and damned and that it is his sacred duty to do all he can to convert you to his religion. Islam is not like Sikhi - they don't think people have a right to choose their own religion and they have absolutely NO respect for any belief system other than their own.

    So, caution is probably a good idea.
     
  11. Bmandur

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    Friendship:

    It's very big word if we really want to keep. First of all we have to see is this person is worth it to have friendship. Our Gurus has taught us alot.
    Muslim: how many girls are in Pakistan, these girls were friends to Muslims and they promised to get marry in Pakistan but as soon they reached at pakistan they were thrown in small dirty room. They were used as piece of MEAT.

    There was a rtical one of the girl manage to escape and she told over th enews but no one I mean no one hasn;t done anything and you are asking if we can have friendship with Muslims, YOU already have a answer your self he promised few thing but he never kept it so, why do you want to have any kind of link to this person.
    Guru Gobind singh ji has given us Amrit when we have Amrit it doesn give us streanth to think and decide what to do when the time is right
    Thank you
    Gur Fateh
    :thumbup:
     
  12. Jaspreet08

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    Yes, I agree. Caution is the word. Things cannot be the way they were before between me and him.

    Thanks guys.
    Jaspreet
     
  13. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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    Thank you for this message. We can't remove all the thorns in the world, but if we wear a strong shoe, we will be able to avoid them. Strengthen our values is exactly doing the right thing.
     
  14. Harsimran

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    Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh

    Just a thought... If we shouldn't be friends with Muslims, then how can we make friends with eg. Christians (who are often much more enthusiastic in converting people than muslims and who also are supposed to believe their way is the only true one) or Atheists (who believe that all religions are useless since Waheguru doesn't exist) or Hindus (who try to undermine Sikhi by trying to make it seem part of Hinduism)? Or how can you be friends with Sikhs who insult Guru ji's teachings by cutting their kesh, drinking etc.?

    I just think it's a bit hypocritical to blame muslims for all this stuff (lieing, converting), when there are so many faults in other communities too.

    Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh
     
  15. pk70

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    All Jio
    I am surprised to read here how one community is generalized as deceptive by many of SPN members even being Sikhs. I am sorry to disagree with their avalanche of blames on Muslim Community, First of all, let’s read what Jasdeep asked for

    Quote hasdeep “He said that Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj said not trust a Muslim because he will betray you as many times as there number of sesame seeds stuck to his arm after dipping it oil.
    That is biggest lie by a so called Sikh attributed to Guru Gobind Singh ji Shame on him.

    Quote Jasdeep “this friend of mine is nice guy, but he use to make a lot promise that he didn't keep. Nothing serious or anything, but I don't really believe him too much. Now, he wants to a stay with me for a couple of weeks while he studies for a test. I can't tell him no as he is all ready setup to move here.”
    Jasdeep is just asking if he should trust him while he stays with him (in the context of that Sikh’s own views attributed to Tenth Master). Answer is simple, if he allows him to move in, he should remember that guy’s behavior in the past so that there should be no more future shocks.
    A

    Quote Jasdeep I don't know what to do. In friendship you have to have trust, but now it's not there as much as it use to be. How do I walk the fine line between friendship and forgiveness and being careful about he says? What would the Gurus advise in this situation? Is it true about Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj said?
    Here he asks if he can forgive and let him be friend. If he is to be advised to be careful or to just refuse him to accommodate the guy in question, we do not need to judge the whole community.

    Any insight will be much appreciated.

    Jaspreet

    Harjas kaur khalsa ji
    This is Kalyug, only trust Guru and Gursikhs. Look at history, it is reality, politics is betrayal. Look at current events missionaries are incredibly deceptive and groom Sikhs for conversion and then lead them to abuse and insult publicly the Guru and Sikh way og life which was formerly loved.
    I think friendships are okay, but to be too involved with people not your own religion leads to political manipulation
    What this current issue has to do with history? If there is negative in the history, there are positive also. What Kalyug? There are deceptive people in every religions, and would be.
    The guy is just old friend and who failed to perform a good friendship as per Jasdeep’s story, why that guys whole community is persecuted on this site? Is Gurbani is just for academic discussion or to live at the same time?

    All human beings may be His creation, but the HUT radicals are still raping Sikh girls to force conversions, wearing kara and pretending to be Sikh and doing all sorts of mischief. No one should have their eyes closed in Kalyug under pretense of love. Our youth deserve better advice for walking a treacherous path in a world full of snakes than blind trust. While I believe all religions are inherently spiritual and all people have spiritual potential, we still live in an evil age and politics is a reality. How could I not warn?

    How do we know Jasdeep’s Muslim friend is radical? Is every Muslim is radical? Did all of Muslims take girls to Pakistan? Whatever any one is saying here, is out put of made up mind against all Muslims. That is not part of any Gurbani teachings. If Gurbani still keeps people closed mind, growth of mind will be stagnant. If Jadeep’s questions were related with “ girls taken to Pakistan with deception” I would agree Youth should be warned. For God’s sake, he is just asking simple question and it should be answer it with grace. Aren’t we here insulting all Muslims?

    Nonymous kaur
    cudnt agree more !! becareful....cos no one cares bwt nyone..it's only guru sahib dats luks after us ..human beings are too obbesseed in worldy affairs...far as i've seen !! manii sikh girls are mates with muslim guys saying dat dey ar onlii firends..n etc...nufin mre ..buh at the end..dey jus doo a runner !!seen it dwn ere...werre i live so dats y i'm saying dis !!bhul chuk maaff karniii !!

    What this has to do with Jasdeep’s question ?
    carolineislands

    _Carolislands Quote____You can't judge people completely by their religion but it is fair to assume some things about them due to their religion. For instance, when you see a Sikh in 5Ks you can assume that person revered the message of the Gurus and considers SGGS the sacred text of their religion. By that you can assume they are at least somewhat bound by the tenants of that religion. By the same token, remember that Islam permits Muslims to deceive or lie to non-muslims under certain circumstances, one being a time of war. Also remember that there are only two kinds of realms in Islamic ideology, "Dar al islam" and "Dar al-harb" - The Realm of Islam and the Realm of War. So as long as you are in a non-Islamic State you are considered to be living in the Land of War and war standards hold. That means that a Muslim is free to deceive and lie to you.
    We are living in a society where people of all faith live together, with this kind of approach, I don’t see we can get due respect from others if we don’t give to them.
    To target whole community is very bad for social harmony. Take a deep breath Caroline ji, there are very nice Muslims out there, they are not all after converting people.

    Bmandur Quote”
    ______YOU already have a answer your self he promised few thing but he never kept it so, why do you want to have any kind of link to this person.
    That is O.K to say, let Jasdeep decide carefully keeping that person’s past relationship in context.
    Guru Gobind singh ji has given us Amrit when we have Amrit it doesn give us streanth to think and decide what to do when the time is right
    I have missed your point, it is beyond my comprehension!
     
  16. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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    Forum Leader's Note - Stick to the topic. Don't let this become another Muslim debate.

    ~ namjap ~

     
  17. ekmusafir_ajnabi

    ekmusafir_ajnabi
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    PK70 ji,

    The people you have mentioned above are of "Sufi" background and not from the mainstream Muslim culture. No doubt Guru ji were helped by these muslims but Guru ji did not bring them home either. Besides we cannot compare with Guru ji's wisdom.

    Jaspreet should exercise every precaution if he is inviting him home. Make sure he does not have an ulterior motive. The question is how strong is your faith and how well do you understand this friend of yours?
     
  18. Jaspreet08

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    No need to be prejudice (pre judge) against anyone. Just take people on what they behave like. This need not be bashing. I simply wanted to know what you guys would do in my spot.
     
  19. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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    SPN is a haven for answers esp in weighing the pros and cons.

    Jaspreet08 Ji,

    You may receive more genuine responses for your query.
     
  20. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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    Dear PK70 Ji, Harjas Kaur Khalsa Ji, Ekmusafir Ji - please post your off topic posts on this thread - Contradictions of Opinion. Here's the link :
    http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/20679-contradictions-of-opinion-15.html#post79149

    This is the beginning of the discussion there :

    Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa,
    Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.

    Here's an intruiging topic which needs further and deeper discussion on Muslim Friendship "Dilemma". According to Muslim sources there are 3 main types of Muslims - Sunni, Shi'a and Wahabi.

    My question is : In this 21st Century, does it matter to understand the Muslim background of a person before one befriends him ? I expect to get a mixed bag of responses from all members. Kindly share.

    ~ namjap ~
     
  21. spnadmin

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    I am wondering respected NamJap and also thread participants whether the threads should be merged together? It is difficult to state this precisely, but on both threads contradictions of opinion are being discussed, and thus the topics of some of the posted comments on both threads don't seem so different. Which may be why pk70, ekmusafir and harjas jios appear to be off-topic, but in a sense are not.

    Think about this suggestion and then we could take it from there.
     

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