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Yogism Meditation, Why I do not do it... Anymore...

Discussion in 'Interfaith Dialogues' started by Harry Haller, Sep 5, 2012.

  1. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    Gurfateh

    Yesterday, I meditated. I used to meditate before, long ago, but have avoided it for the pure reason that although I found it hugely interesting, it also became very addictive, and towards the end, I did not feel I was getting anything out of it that was increasing my knowledge.

    So, after paying tribute to the SPN kings of meditation, namely Bhagatji, Luckyji and Chazji, I meditated.

    For me to meditate, I concentrate on my heart, its beating, and my breathing, everything stops, time stops, all there is, all that exists, is my heartbeat and my breathing, after a time, I am sitting on a virtual mountain top, and then all I can see is blackness, I feel like I have an eagle eye view of the universe, looking down all I can see are swirls of light, planets, moons, it is like a celestial lucid dream, I am in complete control, I surf the rings of Saturn, I dig deep under the red sands of Mars, swim in crystal clear waters, spinning round like a dervish, I break the water, into a cavern of absolute purity and peace, sometimes I hear voices, whispers, singing, it goes on for hours and hours, when I finish, I feel alive, happy.

    In my view, highly addictive, nothing has been gained, no one has been helped, no situation has been changed, all I have done is swim inside my own mind for a few hours, no new knowledge has been gained, no deeper connection made, do it long enough, the desire to live and interact in the real word diminishes, the ability to make a difference, to act, ceases, the need to hide away in a fantasy world increases, until you do find yourself sitting on top of a mountain, with no family, no job, no friends, nothing, other than the light show that you have found yourself addicted to

    :interestedsingh:
     
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  3. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Re: Meditation, Why I do not do it.....anymore

    For ME.."Meditation" is the WAY Guru nanak Ji taught us...

    Make HABITUAL ACTION... the FIELD...the SHABAD the SEED..the Water of TRUTH irrigation......
    Become a Farmer and GROW FAITH...and GYAAN of the real Heaven/hell will PROSPER INSIDE YOU...

    MY Habitual ACTIONS..daily REHAT ..is what I DO DAILY...getting up early, waking up the family..sending them to school office work...schooling those who come to learn...drive safely and happily..waving and smiling to all...helping the needy..giving lifts..carrying old ladies marketing baskets...helping a begging child old man old woman sick dog..bleeding kitten..whatever crosses my path...reading the SGGS..practsie a little kirtan..matha tek at the local gurdwara..meet up and discuss punjab politics pakhandi ababs..whatever..visit SPN ANZ sikhs Sikhs sydney, sikh youth google around the globe..wikimapia..sikhwiki..etc etc..Rozana Spokesman etc etc..write a few mails..help a few computer aided designers software makers seeking my help..fund some get from some..distribute some..gather some..always keeping TRUTH..SATNAAM..TRUTHFUL LIVING..SACHA ACHAAR...compassion DYA..HIS CREATION HIS NATURE HIS ENVIRONMENT HIS CREATURES big and small in VIEW...and when after rehrass MY TIME... and ardass close the sggs for the night and watch a few movies/serials on satelite tv gurbani form amritsar etc WITH INDIAN REHRASS....and sohila and a good nights sleep.. close and settle all my ACCOUNTS..lain-deaan.....just in case theres NO TOMORROW...

    I DONT have a dungeon..BHORA..or a sound proof room or den for sitting down in darkness or led lighting etc for the OMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM OMMMMMMMM OMMM type of meditation...no time for that. Every Single Moment must be spent in ACTIVE TRUTHFUL LIVING...OUTSIDE and INSIDE...not bahron hor anderon hor...as Gurbani already warned me...
     
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  4. Ambarsaria

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    Re: Meditation, Why I do not do it.....anymore

    Harry Haller veer ji of course you meditate every day. Let me explain.

    If God wanted us to ensure the following consciously by us as,

    • Keep the heart beating
    • Keep the lungs breathing
    • Keep the heart, lungs and such within ranges suitable
    • Keep the body chemical balances within ranges
    • Absorb and excrete
    • etc.
    What are the chances any of us would be living? Pretty close to nil from what I can tell. So creator took no chances.

    Similarly for the mind as supported by the above infrastructure if,

    • We had to think to control all innumerable muscles individually to do simple things
    • We had to think to put self to sleep by force or stay awake forever
    • We had to dispose of each and every thought from mind consciously and individually from the conscious
    • etc.
    What are the chances there will be any sane people walking around. Rather Zombies from what I can think of. So to take care of the mind turmoil creator created sleep. Sleep is not one endless and non mind embracing activity. Dreams are a proof of that. It is an internal and autonomous mechanism that has aspects of meditation already built in.

    Did you ever feel like the following in a dream?

    mundahugmundahug

    I am sure many have some of above in dreams and few remember. I would call that autonomous meditation. lol

    Hence I am sure we autonomously meditate as and when needed unconsciously while we may remember a few such experiences. So brother you cannot stop meditating, just not on your terms. It is as innate as an autonomous heartbeat.

    Do we need extra exercise like meditating equivalent to cardio-vascular? May be yes and may be not. But the minimum is autonomously carried out beyond our controls.

    Any thoughts!

    Sat Sri Akal.
     
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    #3 Ambarsaria, Sep 5, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2012
  5. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    Re: Meditation, Why I do not do it.....anymore

    Ambarsariaji

    I like reading your posts, I always learn something new about concepts I thought I had a handle on, your comments above are the crackling on my pork belly!

    autonomous meditation! kaurhug
     
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  6. Kanwaljit Singh

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    Re: Meditation, Why I do not do it.....anymore

    I think meditation calms your mind. You learn to sort and handle things as they come to you. You learn how peaceful mind thinks better than an agitated one. Something like Sehaj.
     
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  7. Luckysingh

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    Re: Meditation, Why I do not do it.....anymore

    cheerleader:interestedmunda:A rather amusing post about your experience!!
    Harryji, if you can't get your heart into it, then you just won't be able to do the real thing.
    It's just like anything else for eg. doing ghatka. There are many of the young boys that try and pursue it but they just can't get their mind into it. It's not all about strength and co-ordination but swinging the shastars also involves a great deal of relaxation!!
    Just letting your body and shastar go hand in hand whilst keeping a focus but having no emotions get in the way, is this kind of relaxed state, a little similar to what professional dancers do except they let the music or the beat carry them forward.

    If we can't get our hearts or be fully determined to succeed in any of these kind of activities, then it becomes difficult to near impossible for most.

    To expect too much from yourself or to expect results with every activity is not a wise way to be moving forward.
    We shouldn't ever expect too much or anything rewarding in our daily lives for that matter. If positive results or rewards come then we should be thankful and accept them as bonuses.
    This manner of expecting good and rewards only helps to fool and pave way for our own Ego.

    Remember, every encounter or activity is always an experience in some way. Trying an activity that one is not suited for or is ready for yet is like having an experience that teaches you that it's not your path.

    It's the way that creator experiences the whole of creation through our very own experiences.
     
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  8. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    Re: Meditation, Why I do not do it.....anymore

    and thats what I do now Luckyji, the real thing :)
     
  9. Luckysingh

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    Re: Meditation, Why I do not do it.....anymore

    Harryji, putting your heart in any activity is what I was trying to imply, not just meditating.
    As I mentioned people doing ghatra and dancing, lets say,--although they require physical strength and endurance, they still have to let their minds relax and then just let the activity or it's natural rhythm take over.... to just let it happen
    If they don't have their heart in it then it becomes difficult toget to this relaxed state where it feels more ''real''
     
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  10. Harry Haller

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    Re: Meditation, Why I do not do it.....anymore

    I get your point brother, and have the hugest respect for your writings, however, personally, I would rather spend 5 mins in the real world than 5 hours surfing the rings of Saturn. I have taken meditation as far as I believe it can be taken, out of body experiences, the lot, yes it is relaxing, no, I do not believe it has any learning effect at all. peacesignkaur
     
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  11. Luckysingh

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    Re: Meditation, Why I do not do it.....anymore

    That's good, I have said previously that it is not for everyone.

    Me,I'm just a lowlife and have been quite weak inside, although I come across to everyone as totally confident and content in every way. But ALL they see is the outside and this false image.

    Personally, I needed to find myself with the help of doing something more practical.
    it was the only way that I knew, where I could strengthen within and then maybe find the real me or the real lord.

    There are many of you on this forum that have done or can do that without the help of meditation. But just like a kid starts with stabilising sidewheels on the 2 wheel bike to get moving, I also needed my own stabilising to help me get moving.

    Sadly, I had tried for many years before to just get some kind of ghian and ghurmat knowledge, but maybe my heart was never truly in it and I just neede a kick start.

    It has helped me and that's the only reason why I have a high regard for it.
    Like a lot of things that we can all accomplish if we put our minds to it.
    ...MIND Over MATTER, can help us in health, well being, being able to handle anxiety and stress...etc...etc.... Many things can be achieved with better Mind Control.
     
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  12. namjiwankaur

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    Re: Meditation, Why I do not do it.....anymore

    Gurfateh

    If our True Nature is Divine then meditation helps us know we are Truly Divine. And that effects our surroundings where we interact (whether viewed as Divine Light/Sound/Vibrations or through the illusion of our interactions with others which is truly just a way of "vibrating at different frequencies").

    If I pray for world peace, I help God build a desire for Peace in the world. The energy of my prayer matters as much as interacting with the maya (illusive world) to create that energy.

    You are a more peaceful person and a healthier person and you treat yourself as sacred (the world needs to remember we are all sacred beings who contain the Divine Spark...if we all remembered this, peace would prevail, future generations would not be left with a violent world we created, etc).

    Peace is not created on the outside. Its created on the inside. So if I take responsiblility for what my being emits into the world, meditation is a powerful tool.

    mundahug

    Take this mundahug as an example. He is a being created to express friendship, tolerance, love, etc.. His essence spreads a warmth when we see it and he is not even "real"! Imagine what you can do if you open your heart through meditation? It will empower your ability as a giver.

    0:)
     
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  13. Kanwaljit Singh

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    Re: Meditation, Why I do not do it.....anymore

    I think here the simple meditation of sitting down and closing your eyes will not help. But 'meditating' on Gurbani will. The know-how of life cannot be achieved by sitting in one pose for years. Reading Gurbani will impart us that knowledge.

    If you pray for world peace, no one else is praying. So God doesn't think the whole world needs peace. If you 'work' for world peace, you work alone. After 5 years of your hard work, your family or friends may be inspired to work on world peace with you. Gurbani all shows us the ideal path to walk as a human, we have to walk that path. That stay at home meditation can (and should) be done, but it is only for resting your mind and thinking out of box.

    You are right here and 'treat' is the key word!

    You are right. But without divine knowledge of Gurbani, we cannot maintain that peace. One might meditate in the comfort of their house for months. And say they are dropped off in middle of fighting in Iraq. They would think they had their inner peace so they can take anything from outside. We all know how wrong they are. Inner peace comes from knowledge and practice. And it has to be independent of outer disturbances.
     
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  14. namjiwankaur

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    Re: Meditation, Why I do not do it.....anymore

    I used to think prayer was futile. I now believe prayer is Light.

    I think Gurbani is a prayer. It is a prayer of 10 gurus and other saints and sages which lasted centuries. It is now the prayer of Sikhs. The miracle is as we read what the gurus prayed, Waheguru answers.

    Prayer is not futile. If I were dropped off in the middle of Iraq, I would pray:

    Lord, make me an instrument of your peace.
    Where there is hatred, let me sow love.
    Where there is injury, pardon.
    Where there is doubt, faith.
    Where there is despair, hope.
    Where there is darkness, light.
    Where there is sadness, joy.
    O Divine Master,
    grant that I may not so much seek to be consoled, as to console;
    to be understood, as to understand;
    to be loved, as to love.
    For it is in giving that we receive.
    It is in pardoning that we are pardoned,
    and it is in dying that we are born to Eternal Life.
    Amen.

    How could achieve any of the things Saint Francis asks for in the above prayer without WaheGuru Lighting the Way.

    I confess I am a pacifist in most situations (but not all), but even Jesus said he came with a sword. Prayer is a kind of sword. Not made of metal, but of faith.

    EDIT: I don't want to come across like an expert on Sikhi or anything related to it. I apologize if I did, it wasn't intentional. But what is most profound for me when I spend time with Sri Guru Granth Sahib is that feeling of being part of an infinite prayer begun by the gurus.
     
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    #13 namjiwankaur, Sep 7, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2012
  15. namjiwankaur

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  16. Ambarsaria

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    Re: Meditation, Why I do not do it.....anymore

    namjiwankaur ji great posts. Thank you.
    Believe it or not SGGS is quite enjoyable. For me, I don't just read the words and lines. I visualize no matter how crudely, even without knowing of Guru ji's and other's photographs, a teacher and pupil dialog. Me and Guru ji and others sitting in the shade of a tree as Guru ji's describe and explain. There is a virtual and respectful internal dialog so created.

    For me it is even way more enriching than meditating on words or lines or objects. There is a connection and continuity without barriers and any deprivation of the senses or need thereof. Just a bit of concentration. An alive and learning moment. You may want to experiment with it too!

    I am little advantaged having come from the environ of the land of the Guru ji's and specially a time quite a while ago with peace, purity of space and time still in tact. I have not been back much but I believe much has changed from the heaven I used to experience back then.

    Any way I still learn everyday and perhaps for ever learn.

    Sat Sri Akal.
     
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  17. namjiwankaur

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    Re: Meditation, Why I do not do it.....anymore



    Gurfateh

    Ambarsaria ji. I more than believe it. I know it. And much more than enjoyable. There is nothing in the world like Sri Guru Granth Sahib. It is a beautiful experience to spend time with the SGGS. It speaks to the heart in ways that make God and seekers intimate friends. In Sufism, we often say a long "Huuuuuuu" at times like this. All we can say when it comes to indescribable beauty is "Huuuuuuuu".

    Much of Sikhi makes me say "Huuuuuuuu". peacesign
     
  18. chazSingh

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    Re: Meditation, Why I do not do it.....anymore


    Most people that have success in any activity have a 'love' for the activity they do. On the inner path it's your deep love for God which He picks up and makes him come closer to you.


    the following shabad:
    sabadh surath sukh oopajai prabh raatho sukh saar ||
    Focusing your awareness on the Shabad, happiness wells up. Attuned to God, the most excellent peace is found. 62.

    What is this shabad? that we are supposed to focuss on?
    This meant one thing to me a year ago i.e. 'outer shabad in Sri guru Granth Sahib Ji'...during a 2.5 hour Simran session at Amrit Vela a few weeks ago it now also means something else :) ...something 'inner'.

    When we pray we are talking to god
    When we do Simran we are listening to him :)

    Gurbani says:
    ghu(n)gharoo vaajai jae man laagai ||
    You shall hear the vibrations of the tinkling bells, when your mind is held steady 356

    All we need to do is listen (within), and see where God takes us :)
    A whole section of japji starts with the shabad 'suniai' - listening
    gurbani cannot get any clearer than that.

    <TABLE style="MARGIN-LEFT: 50px" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top>
    </TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top>




    </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
     
  19. gillgk

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    Re: Meditation, Why I do not do it.....anymore

    I say go with the flow. My "flow" of the moment is singing along with the shabad on youtube or singing along with sangat at the local Gurdwara.

    I too was caught in a whirlpool of ecstasy where I saw things, NOT to my detriment. I got addicted, expectations rose and then I fell hard when nothing seemed to happen after that.

    Naam isn't just Ommmm Ommmm as a fellow forumer put it. Imho, Sewa is naam. Helping others is naam.

    It took a while to clamber back up and out of a depressive state when I "lost" my master, spiritual wise. I didn't want the angels to go. But they had to go so that I would learn to stand on my own two feet instead of relying on "voices".

    I do sing along shabad kirtan to youtube mostly, sewa and about 10 mins of simran (because the cool youtube simrans only last for that long{yes, its also sing along}).

    So yes, I have been in a state where I have "travelled" during longer simran sessions. I kept wanting to have more and and more experiences. Fell hard. Begged for the dear angels to come back. They had already said their goodbyes with a "don't forget us".

    Most of all I miss the pyaar "they" bestowed on me.

    So yes, maybe your disinterest in visiting Mars time and time again is a blessing in disguise. Maybe its time to move to other things; take your pick, or choose all i.e. naam, simran, sewa, shabad, bandagi, kirat karni, wand ke chakna. There is more to naam than what we have experienced. We just haven't realised it yet.

    Yet, Yet, this is what I posted sometime back:

    I meditated on this gurmantar (waheguru, waheguru) every night. I could feel Guru Ram Das taking me from a "bad place" to a "good place". I hung on to the end of Guruji's robe for dear life as Guruji "carried" me with every gurmantar that I japped. This is a note to myself as well as to you; never underestimate the power of gurmantar even if you can't feel it. You ARE being carried across the samundar.

    Life is simple.
     
    #18 gillgk, Sep 8, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2012
  20. namjiwankaur

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    Re: Meditation, Why I do not do it.....anymore

    One thing I love about Sikhi is singing with shabad. Today I did it with this video:
    Jai-Jagdeesh sings Aad Guray Nameh at Sat Nam Fest 2011 - YouTube

    I know a lot of ppl disagree with what the 3HO is about, but regardless it is a profound experience to chant with the video. What happens as I contemplate on the meaning of it is a feeling of waking up a little more to the Divine Reality.


    Would you share a little more about this? Isn't it the naam experiencing the giving and receiving through seva? I'm still a little confused by what Naam is and isn't, but I think of the naam as Divine Light, Vibration and Energy. If I pet my cat and she purrs, my cat is God experiencing the cozy feeling that makes my cat purr. Is that how you mean it?

    Would you share one or two of the Youtube videos you do it with?

    Isn't meditation how we learn to give our undivided attention to God? By quieting down and being rid of the maya/distractions, we go deep into the Ocean of God. I think that will radiate into the world.

    Zoroastrians say "good thoughts, good words, good deeds". Sikhs may word it as "naam in the mind; naam on the lips; naam in the seva". I love that the nitnem reminds me each day that there is God in both the giving and receiving.

    How can God give if there is no one there to receive? Harry ji, I think this is all I mean when I say meditation is a way to learn how to experience and share the experience of the Divine. Maybe my definition of meditation is different than yours.

    :japposatnamwaheguru:
     
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  21. dalbirk

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    Re: Meditation, Why I do not do it.....anymore

    Namjiwan ji ,
    Naam Simran means remembering the qualities of God as described in Moolmantar which have been explained in detail in 1430 pages of holy Sri Guru Granth Sahib . I may add that not a single line/word in Sri Guru Granth Sahib is out of sync with MOOLMANTAR . Which is why understanding Moolmantar is the basic requisite for practising Naam Simran & understanding Sikhi .
     
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