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Manmohan Singh's Brother in law died in 1984 riots

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by kds1980, Nov 15, 2010.

  1. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    http://www.sikhchic.com/people/gursharan_kaur_first_among_equals

    "She is a very humble, warm and a forgiving person. Her brother was killed in the 1984 anti-Sikh pogroms but she has no sense of anger in her," says Khushwant Singh. The one occasion when she lost her cool was in 1999 when Manmohan Singh lost the parliamentary elections from South Delhi. She thought the people handling his campaign could have done better.

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    What kind of communty have we become ,Does we have any pride left as community or we all want good careers,money,top positions etc.
     
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  3. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    And mrs Manmohan singh lost her cool when Manmohan singh lost election,perhaps her husbands winning a mp election is much bigger loss to her than loosing his own brother.
     
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  4. max314

    max314
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    Pride and anger are two of the Five Thieves.

    Why place stock in such destructive emotions?

    Faith in God's Will is the only way to lead a contented life.
     
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  5. max314

    max314
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    Do you honestly doubt for even a second that Mrs. Manmohan Singh experienced impossible pain when her brother died?

    She has dealt with the experience and tried to move on.

    The fact that someone saw her get upset in a fleeting moment when her husband failed to win an election is hardly equivalent to years of dealing with the death of a loved one.

    Next you'll be saying she's never allowed to laugh again, else she doesn't care about her dead brother.
     
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  6. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    Max

    First let me welcome you on SPN again.Its good You are back

    The fact is her brother was killed and not died a natural death.Most probably his killers either Sajjan Kumar or Tytler. If we apply the same logic of Mrs Manmohan singh then I am sorry all those people in world that are fighting for justice should move on instead of Fighting for Justice.The fact is her husband is in the same party and sitting with the same people that killed her brother. This is not called moving on but death of self-respect which Manmohan singh and his wife is showing.
     
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  7. max314

    max314
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    Thanks for the welcome back.

    Politics is always about operating in a bed of snakes. If you ask me, it takes a truly brave man - a true Statesman - to overlook personal emotions and to commit oneself to the greater good.

    The Mughal Emperor was responsible for the death of Guru Gobind Singh Ji's entire family. And yet, with the death of his two eldest sons still seared into his eyes, the Guru wrote the Zafarnama to the Emperor in an attempt to create peace and a better world for everybody.

    Did Guru-ji lose self-respect by doing this?

    Not at all.

    You see, normal men are paralysed by anger, pride, attachment, lust and greed. But great men are not. They are willing to carry out the mission no matter what emotional obstacles lie in their way. They are willing to deal with their worst enemies if it means a chance for the human race to be better off tomorrow than they were yesterday.

    Manmohan Singh is a beacon of everything it means to be a true Sikh. He is calm where others burn with fury. He is insightful where others cannot see past the colour red. And he uses tact and diplomacy where others would have one itchy finger circling the hilt of their kirpan.

    If you ask me, the Sikh community would do well to learn from the example set by Manmohan Singh -- instead of trashing him as some sort of traitor because he isn't 'angry enough'.
     
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  8. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    Guru gobind singh ji also sent Banda Bahadur to take revenge from wazir Khan.Guru ji also
    did not take Khalsa movement back .Guru ji or any other Khalsa never asked for any Jagir
    which any Mughal or muslim ruler could had given to them.Please tell me is Manmohan or his wife doing 0.1 % work to get justice for 1984 victims.Manmohan singh these days have lot of power as media do respect him so he can do something if he really wants.

    What mission Manmohan singh is carrying? Just sitting on the PM seat so the day Sonia Gandhi ask him to leave he will bow and say yes maam.

    Yes Manmohan is Calm.Infact He is so Calm that One minister under him took 1.76 Lakh crores and despite knowing everything he did nothing.This is true example of being a good human or a good Sikh.Am I right?
     
  9. max314

    max314
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    My understanding is Guru Gobind Singh Ji never gave the command to seek "revenge" for his family. Nor does it make any sense that he would.

    My understanding is that, after Guru-ji's passing, Banda Singh Bahadur killed the executioners of the two youngest Sahibjade, taking revenge of his own accord. But Bahadur failed his mission -- Wazir Khan eventually captured Bahadur and mutilated his children in front of him.

    I'm sure Guru Gobind Singh Ji told Banda Singh Bahadur to wage war against Wazir Khan. But not as a personal revenge mission.

    The Guru would never be so selfish.

    Why hasn't Manmohan Singh put this at the top of his political agenda? Maybe it's because he is concentrating on building a glorious future instead of dwelling on the gory past.

    Also, Manmohan Singh does not operate in a vacuum. To mobilise such a 'justice movement' would depend on the people below Manmohan Singh.

    And if Manmohan Singh ever used his position to launch a Sikh-centric crusade from his seat as PM, there would be severe repercussions for the entire Sikh community. No longer would we be perceived as the honourable face of all India. Instead, we would be marginalised once again. Untrusted. As we were in the days of Bhindranwala.

    The last 20+ years of progress in restoring the image of Sikhs would be under threat.

    Every action has a reaction. And anger blinds us from seeing the obvious.

    You're talking about the man who single-handedly saved India from bankruptcy. And when the Americans offered him a high paying job in the United States, he told them to shove it. He was an Indian and he was going to devote his service to India.

    That's his mission.

    Manmohan Singh may not be one of those Sikhs who talks as loud as he belches, but that doesn't mean he's weak. He has more resolve and more patience than you can possibly imagine.

    This isn't the kind of man who bows his head and says, "Yes ma'am."

    He's the kind of man who works hard while others talk hard, and never asks for any recognition.

    Sonia Ghandi may be the voice and the muscle. But Manmohan Singh is the brain.

    Corruption is endemic in Indian politics. It is a filthy pool. Impossible for one man to clean.

    But Manmohan Singh himself remains the lotus flower floating above the filth, wearing his turban for all to see, protecting the image of Sikhs as being the honour of India.
     
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  10. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    http://www.sikh-history.com/sikhhist/warriors/banda.html

    At a durbar held at Nander about the middle of September 1708, the Guru conferred the title of Bahadur on Banda and invested him with full political and military authority as his deputy to carry on the national struggle in the Punjab and to punish Wazir Khan of Sarhind and his supporters. He was supplied with a standard arrow and a drum as symbols of temporal authority. He was given an advisory council of five devoted Khalsa: Baj Singh, a descendant of the family of third Guru, Amar Das, his brother Ram Singh, Binod singh, who descended from Guru Angad Dev second Guru, his son Kahan singh and Fateh Singh. Twenty five soldiers were given to him as his bodyguard. A prescript called Hukumnamah or a letter of authority in the handwriting of the Guru instructing Sikhs to join Banda Bahadur in his national war against Mughal tyranny was provided. As an insignia of his temporal authority invested in him, Guru gave Banda Bahadur his own sword, green bow and Five arrows from his quiver. Three hundred Sikh cavaliers in battle array accompanied Banda to a distance of eight kilometers to give him final send off.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Here is the Sikh history of Banda bahadur ,and for you kind information Wazir Khan was killed by banda's army.But if you want to mould sikh history according to your thinking then
    I can't say anything as these days people just love to impose their views on sikhism with some ,shabad Saakhi or anything.

    Well forget about top of agenda he has not done anything for justice .Is it fair for PM
    not to give justice to people that were victims of worst genocide in independent India.

    Where am I saying that he should launch sikh centric crusade,I am just asking about justice for 1984 victims.If asking for justice means launching sikh centric crusade?
    If you want to Give credit then please also give credit to Narsimha Rao as No finance minister can take decision independently .I don't understand why people forgot Rao .If today's govt do some excellent work then would we give credit to manmohan singh or we will give credit to Pranab mukhergee who is present FM now.

    It is an open fact in India that he is yes maam man that is the only reason he was offered
    PM ship O/W There was no reason for Sonia Gandhi to offer him post of PM.
    Could you please point out what glorious future he is building from past 6 years

    Yes corruption is Filthy pool but if he is allowing it to happen under his face then he is no different from other leaders.Just look at Nitish Kumar who won by 4/5th majority in Bihar
    .He was given a state which was full of corruption ,crime and hopeless ,but he single handedly turned the table.In recent election the results were so shocking for everybody ,
    people were surprised to see that even muslims voted for BJP who is alliance partner their
    because they want to see him as CM of state.This is we call a true leader on the other hand look at India Food grain rotting in godowns and food minister is busy in managing cricket.manmohan Singh can't do anything,CWG scam,adarsh society scam,2g spectrum scam,and recently LIC scam.Yes Manmohan singh is truly building a future
     
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  11. max314

    max314
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    Wazir Khan had committed war crimes, for which the Guru said he should be punished. When the Emperor failed to heed his words, the Guru took it upon himself and his Khalsa to serve the punishment. To make an example of Wazir Khan.

    But I do not accept the interpretation that the Guru was pursuing a personal vendetta against Khan, as this would be most improper.

    I may have date/names slightly muddled in my mind, but that hardly constitutes a malicious re-moulding of Sikh history.* I know for a fact that Banda Singh Bahadur was captured by the Mughals, and he was tortured by being forced to watch the mutilation of his children, and then force-fed their disembodied carcasses.

    It may not have been specifically Wazir Khan who did this, but the Mughal Empire certainly did.


    *One wonders how much of what we consider Sikh history has in fact been "moulded" by certain individuals pursuing certain agendas.


    I hope he's doing everything he can behind the scenes.

    Though if we're talking about putting well-connected, corrupt politicians who are still in the party in the dock, I suspect they're far too powerful and influential for Manmohan Singh to touch.

    Sure. But we're not talking about Rao's credibility right now.

    I think it's because they were a team and shared the same basic ideas about the future of India and how to get there.

    To me, it shows a bond of trust. And it shows how much respect Sonia Ghandi has for Manmohan Singh and his abilities.

    India's rapidly growing economy and infrastructure, Indo-U.S. nuclear deal, reducing the poverty line, making education mandatory...

    State level politics is a whole different ball game from managing an entire country the size of India.

    To think Manmohan Singh can single handedly de-corrupt Indian politics is naive. But he has gone a long way to rooting out corruption, changing the system to make it a less amenable environment for corrupt politicians.
     
  12. Sinister

    Sinister
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    I kind of like Dr. Singh he is a cute little man... reminds of a kuala when he is buttoned up in that blueish grey little outfit, with his slow rigid movements and a droopy sleepy speech...its political genius if you ask me...how can you attack that sweet little old man Kanwardeep? shame on you

    granted he is a spineless pushover...when gandhi jr hits political puberty Singh will get the shaft, but until then, hes our spineless pushover... so... 'dont hate the player hate the game'

    cheers
     
  13. davinderdhanjal

    davinderdhanjal United Kingdom
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    Dear max314

    May be Mrs. Singh was worried that if Mr. Manmohan Singh did not get elected we would have unprincipled crooks led by equally unscrupulus one. That would have made life of Sikhs even bigger misery than it is at present. I know he was not prime ministerial candidate but her faith in him may be more progressive action than mourning a family member - in reality we have all lost some members in our families but we move on.
    From what I see, he has made changes to Indian Society that is visible - even I could see it on my visit to India last year after lapse of about three years.
    I do believe only leadership is from the top - anything done at the lower levels is personal sacrifice - from the top it is an example and the TOP BRASS can demand the rest to follow with conviction of their actions, unfortunately in this case he is the only one with some moral fibre in the top brass.
    All I can suggest is let us all pull with him and do not let the 'unprincilped mass' take credit for a principled SIKH's actions.
     
  14. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    Are those people Who committed crimes against innocent sikh 1984 less than wazir khan's war crimes?

    The fact is Guru gobind singh ji encouraged Khalsa not only to punish Wazir Khan but also capture political power.This was the foundation of Khalsa movement and 70 -80 year later this lead to estabishment to Khalsa Raj.

    What I mean was these days almost every sikh just pick a saakhi,Baani and try to justify his/her own personal beleif

    CBI giving clean chit to tytler has shown the world that what he is doing behind the scenes

    The reason I mentioned Rao because Rao is now completely disowned by congress.All the bad things that happened in 80s and early 90s are blamed on him.He was blamed for delaying army in 1984,demolition babri masjid and even the escape of anderson in 1984
    the congress itself distnaced itself from all the crimes committed by party.One can wonder is the future waiting foir manmohan singh ?all the bad things that are happening these days will be blamed on him

    Max it looks to me I am discussing this matter with a congress spokesperson rather than a person who independently study Indian politics.Do you even think that Sonia entered politics for sake of doing good for people of India? The reallity is she entered so Future of her children is secured in Indian politics.She very well know that her Italian origin will always haunt her and may be coalition Partner use this to dump her so She chooses a man who was the least threat to Nehru Gandhi Dynasty and There was no better person than manmohan singh to do this.In a team if top player refuses captainship then it goes to second best,Manmohan singh was not even in the list of second best leaders of congress.

    India's economy was growing before Manmohan singh Infact econmy of many asian countries are growing,There is hardly any report Manmohan singh's steps has reduced poverty in India.As far as education bill is concerned that is just a paper bill with no proper infrastructure ro implement

    No one is saying that he can single handedly uproot the corruption but he should ensure that the corruption should be decreased ,but the fact is corruption has increased.

    Let me tell you as a middle class man from last 2 years the food price inflation has hurted us the most.I don't even understand where the food has gone ,what wrong policies govt has implemented so that food prices are touching sky high.At first they said that it is an international crisis but later on price of food items went down in international market ,but no such thing happened in India.
     
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  15. Admin Singh

    Admin Singh
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    I recently watched trailer of movie The Window Colony and one of the widow living in miserable conditions in Trilokpuri said...


    ...Blaming others for our own shortcomings and finding a scapegoat is not going to brighten the future of these victims... Sikhs at grass-root level need to come forward and help out these down trodden people out of misery. Apparently, this is the only way we can change the face of Sikh History in next 50-100 years... we still have a choice in our hands...

    Gurfateh!
     
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  16. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    That is why I believe that Phoolka ji and Jarnail singh journalist are true sikhs and very good role model rather than Manmohan singh.They did everything for the community without hoping for any reward, Manmohan singh just did Yes maam and grabbed top post of India
     
  17. Admin Singh

    Admin Singh
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    There is no second opinion on Phoolka Ji! My Salute to Him!

    Please bear in mind that i am not advocating for anyone here... no matter how we Sikhs would go on maligning Dr. Manmohan Singh but presently, he remains the Face of Sikhs to a worldwide audience.

    What he has done?: Restore the image of Sikhs being tagged as terrorists by the Indian media in 80s-90s. If in western countries, there is any awareness about Sikhs as most progressive people then the most of the credit would go to him. Given the choice, whom would you choose as your Face of Sikhs presently to a worldwide audience?

    Do you think a country with diverse religious & cultural backgrounds of 100 million can be run for 7-8 years by a person, who is only a Yes Man? It is very easy to focus on the negative points.

    If SGPC, the richest Sikh body could not do anything for the 1984 victims in all these years then what could we expect from someone else?

    Coming back to my last message:

     
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  18. Amarpal

    Amarpal
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    Dear Khalsa Ji,

    I feel blessed, 'The Sat' gave me chance to interact with Dr Manmohan Singh Ji, He is very humble and dignified Sikh and Indian. I remember how, even as Prime Minister, he spoke with respect to Dr Sethna, former Chairman of Atomic Energy Commision and requested him and his family to stay with him at his residence whenever he comes to Delhi.

    When Dr Sethna was the Chairman of Atomic Energy Commission, Dr Manmohan Singh was member finance in the commission.

    Manmohan Singh make me feel elated. he is one of the great Sikhs of our time.

    With love and respect for all.

    Amarpal Singh
     
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  19. max314

    max314
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    The Guru lived in a time of war when the law of the sword ruled supreme.

    Upon toppling Wazir Khan, the Guru established the first Sikh state. This was the way of the world.

    What do you propose as a modern means of delivering punishment? And what do you think will be the consequence of the intricate web of power that protects these evildoers in the first place? If you try enacting Old World solutions, I can guarantee you a lot more innocent people will die in the interim.

    This isn't the same as the situation under Aurangzeb, who was a fascist dictator. We live in a democracy. Even if it is held together by glue and sticky tape.

    Yes, I said this above. I also said that it was a different world back then.

    I see it happen every day. But it's all God's will in the end.

    I'm sure he has his reasons.

    Doubtful.

    Moderates and progressives seem to love him. His re-election is proof of his popularity.

    I could just as easily say you sound like an Akali or one of those Sikhs who has allied himself with fascists like the BJP. But I won't.

    Dynasties are a part of Indian politics. One of the consequence of a family-oriented society is that it inevitably results in mafioso power play. Sending buckets of gold to your local politician in the hope that, one day, they will be able to do something for you when the time comes is part of our flawed system because it is a part of our flawed society.

    But that isn't a slight against Manmohan Singh's efforts to make India a better place. Nor against Sonia Ghandi and her family for that matter.

    India's economy was beginning to grow, but Manmohan Singh's government ensured that India's internal market was kept strong and able to function independently of foreign trade. China failed to do this its government felt the impact of the economic crisis -- the only reason they're still standing is because of their reserves of American currency. Though there are suggestions that their continuing failure to ignite a stable internal market will be their downfall in the future.

    Manmohan Singh has put systems in place to ensure this can never happen to India.

    And as India's economy grows and as the youth move into positions of influence, the infrastructure to support the new education bill will gradually click into place.

    Such radical reforms rarely happen overnight. Unless you're China.

    And the fact that we're talking about those corrupt individuals means these people are being caught out one by one by the media, executive enforcement, and the judiciary.

    If Manmohan Singh had a mantra for his modus operandi, it would probably be: "Don't use cannon to kill mosquito."

    When you squeeze the beast's throat, it spits and spurts and struggles for air. But eventually, it passes out and dies. Manmohan Singh has set up the intricate dance of dominos and is watching quietly as they all fall into their rightful places.

    Manmohan Singh is the guy who sees ten moves ahead while the rest of us can barely figure out the next move.

    I'm not an economist, so I can't explain this phenomenon.


    ----


    Anyway, it's been nice talking with you. You seem like a very mature and well-meaning person, so I know you will understand when I don't respond to future posts. I foresee a 21 page quote-a-thon if one of us doesn't bow out now, so I'll take that as my cue.

    All the best.
     
  20. max314

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    A moving extract. Thank you for that.

    I think it is true that we in the Sikh community haven't enough to establish non-governmental programs to help the future generations of Sikh Delhiites.

    What strikes me about the extract you quoted is that these widows are asking for neither revenge nor reparations. They want to forget the past. All they want is a future for their children, and their childrens' children.

    Sikhs who are outraged by proxy often come across as infantile. Their biggest grievance seems to be that their communal pride has been insulted and they need to seek revenge. And in an effort to put a face to their anger, they turn to the softest target. The lowest hanging fruit.

    Unfortunately, the target they've chosen is also the man who currently carries the honour of the entire Sikh community on his head.

    Anger gives us the illusion of purpose and satisfaction. But, in truth, it is blinding. And it leads us down a dark path that will lead only to more anger, more death, more destruction.

    It's best to let go and move forward. Like the survivors of 1984. Like Dr. Manmohan Singh and his family.
     
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  21. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    Which audience you are talking about ,the handful of intelectuals which are interested in politics,The majority of people all over the world hardly care who is the president or PM of which country ,which Religion that person follow etc.Just ask any Indian who is PM of UK ,germany,Australia , newzealand ,Uganda or even Sri lanka.majority of them just nod their head.To be honest at this point I even don't know who is president of China,which religion he follows .

    Manmohan singh was also in early 90s What image he restored then?The fact is that from 9/11
    the focus shifted on islamic terrorism and with death of Khalistan movement there was no reason for Indian media to focus.BTW except in few Indian movies and in TV serials the image of sikhs haven't changed they are shown still as jokers ,truck drivers etc.

    He was selected as PM in 2004 is there any reduction in hate crimes against sikhs?As far choosing a face is concerned I am sorry to say but sikh community cannot rely on one man.
    Manmohan singh is already near 80 so from 10 from now there will be no Manmohan then what will sikh community will do

    Obviously in congress only Yes mam type of people are selected for top to bottom level posts.Just look at Following Adarsh society scam Sonia asked Ashok Chavan to resign
    and he resigned without hesistation ,on the other hand BJP asked yedurappa to resign ,he became rebelious even threatened the top level leaders.So the score was congress 1 BJP 0
    as BJP lost face


    It was duty of DSGMC not SGPC as DSGMC is no less rich than SGPC .SGPC should be criticised for not taking care of sikhs in PUnjab ,but in Delhi DSGMC is responsible,but they alligned with the congress and sold their souls
     

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