• Welcome to all New Sikh Philosophy Network Forums!
    Explore Sikh Sikhi Sikhism...
    Sign up Log in

Legal Living Together A Part Of Right To Life, Not An Offence: SC

Should government regulate the cohabitation of unmarried couples? Check all that describe your view.

  • In a constitutional democracy this question should be decided by the electorate.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • In a secular democracy the government should play no role. Cohabitation is a private matter.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Any regulation of cohabitation by government should be guided by majority religious sentiments.

    Votes: 1 20.0%
  • Cohabition should be protected by laws that uphold the fundamental right to privacy.

    Votes: 4 80.0%
  • Cohabitation should be banned. It undermines core social values, including loyalty to family.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Cohabition should be banned. It undermines core religious values found in nearly every society.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No opinion

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Other - Please share your views in the thread.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    5
Jan 1, 2010
517
490
60
Dear Narayanjot kaurji,
Regards,
Thanks for your approval to my request to create a poll and make it anonymous. It would be so nice of you that you have approved my request. I have full confidence on your capability of drafting the questionnaire for creating a poll.

Madam, I am confident that you will cover all the ifs and buts in the Poll. I shall be delighted to honour in providing help to you on putting questions together. I shall feel honoured to help in drafting the questionnaire whenever you feel alike.

I have full confidence on your capability and whatever queries you will draft it will cover all the questionnaire on the subject.

Regards,
Rajneesh Madhok
 

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
SPNer
Jun 17, 2004
14,500
19,219
I just want to make this known. When I agreed to serve as Aman Singh's assistant, co-admin for SPN, I gave up what was truly the luxury of being able to indulge in intellectually stimulating conversations in any significant depth. Now I have to pick a few topics and stick to those as I can. As much as I would like to pursue so many of the interesting threads day after day, probing subtleties and sharing information gained from research, I cannot do it. There is much less disposable time for me in that regard.

So I will begin this poll on the weekend, but cannot do it immediately.
 

JimRinX

SPNer
Aug 13, 2008
166
148
Portland, Oregon, U.S.A.
Dear Rajneesh Madho ji
Wow! Such heat in your tone of writing; I detect more anger determining your views, when I see them more as a misunderstanding, as you have judged me poorly.
Firstly: I was NOT disagreeing with your POV - I merely said thet there are two sides to everything; and, since I am FAR from oversexed (Hundreds? You DISHONOR me!), and I feel that I have done my best to avoid getting into a Bad Marriage - as MY own culture actually is, I'd heartilly agree, rather messed up on that subject.
Let me get to the Point; I DO have what you call Gyan (Enlightenment, etc.), and My 'Book of Life' - including the Sexual Parts - has been 'read' in Gods presence (if you read my other bits - like Introducing Myself, you'll learn what I actually am; some have said Avdhoot, others 'Rinpoche').
This is the origin of my Feelings and Views on the subject; as there is one thing NOW that was NOT THERE when these time honored traditions (which many modern Hindus despise, I also know) - which are/were intended to provide a Good, Stable Home and Loving, Capable Familly to provide for any Children that might come about as a result of the marriage - were adopted; and not just by Indian/Asian/Eastern Socieites; and that's Birth Control.
Thus, The Great Ones opinions seemed to be that (as I tried to say, before you bit my head off!) finding ones 'Perfect Soul Mate' is much, much more important than preventing unwanted pregnacies - by marrying off LITTLE CHILDREN, in the interest of those future adults own Offspring!
Did it ever occur to you that Gods own POV would change, as WE change the World God Created for us?
You think that I merely "Crave Flesh" (which is true, in MODERATION) - or that I'm "Lost in Maya", but I'm actually just relaying what I was shown/told/had imparted to me, in my Holy Visions; which, BTW, resulted in a White Streak - one taht was NOT there before - appearing my my HAIR!
And, NO, I ws not (obviously) DREAMING; and I've read Freud, Jung, etc. - so learning about 'Dream Interpretation' is also not necessary for anyone to mention.
As I've also repeated, by many American Mens standards I - personally - am not a 'Real Man'; which they like to tease me about, because I HAVEN'T abused enough Women - or had enough Multi-Sexual relations - as much as THOSE FOOLS think I should have, to meet with their approval of my 'Macho-ness'.
There are, again, to extremes here; and the Middle Path is open to you, once you get over your misguilded preconceptions regarding what I was ACTUALLY trying to say!
Do you REALLY think Child Marriage is the Right Thing to do? How about Out-of-Caste Marriage? All those unhappy young ladies....it BREAKS MY HEART to SEE IT; and if it affects me that way - the above considered - then, I assure you, it is viewed by Our Very Beautiful and LOVING-KIND Lord, as well.
God is LOVE - and what I see that you've shown me here is called HATERED, or Prejudice!
I've read an abridged version of the Kama Sutra - and seen Photos of the Temple Art; and what European/American Society was like before they became 'known' in those spheres of influence, was remarkably like what existed in Asians Socieites - with the exception of the Tantric Cultures who TREID to set us all Free.
The way we did things before the so-called 'sexual revolution' leads to Emotional PAIN (always a Bad Thing!), to little boys being futtered in back rooms, the '30 Minute Marriages' (to a Widow) that Muslim Men one can BUY from the Clerics in Qum (Iran)to Child prostitution, etc.; the way we do things NOW - without the Wisdom of Moderation - leads to Tiger Woods, our American Presidential Candidate John Edwards cheating one his spouse...etc..
It's all in Moderation - and, so, BOTH of us are BOTH Right and Wrong, Man who uses a Ying/Yang as his Avatar!
Of ALL people, I'd think that YOU should KNOW that!
Ever hear of a 'Walking Marriage'? It's a Custom in some South Asians (Tibetan) people practice; and it sounds emminently sensible to me - as NO ONE gets HURT because of Bonds that should never have been established, simply for the sake of 'honoring custom', in the first place!
I'll get back to all of you jios on this subject when I have more time.
It's what we call a 'Hot Potato'!
Trust Me - I wouldn't DARE to lie about such things! Not unless someone shows me a working matter transmutation device - in 1990!
 
Last edited:
Jan 1, 2010
517
490
60
I just want to make this known. When I agreed to serve as Aman Singh's assistant, co-admin for SPN, I gave up what was truly the luxury of being able to indulge in intellectually stimulating conversations in any significant depth. Now I have to pick a few topics and stick to those as I can. As much as I would like to pursue so many of the interesting threads day after day, probing subtleties and sharing information gained from research, I cannot do it. There is much less disposable time for me in that regard.

So I will begin this poll on the weekend, but cannot do it immediately.
Honourable Narayanjot Kaurji,
Regards,
Thanks for taking interest in General topics. You are really great and your steps to give up views that indulge in intellectually stimulating conversations is quite notable. I request you to keep on providing your guidance on the subjects linked to humanity with your vast expertise on the different subjects. Madam the members are thankful to you for providing the services you are giving to SPN, your guidance to the members on the different subjects are quite remarkable. I shall feel grateful and will be highly obliged if you keep on providing your time according the weightage of the post.
I would request you to please begin the poll as per your convenience; this poll is based for knowledge sake and the mentality of the public as a whole will be judged.
Regards,
Rajneesh Madhok
 

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
SPNer
Jun 17, 2004
14,500
19,219
rajneesh ji

You overwhelm me with all you support. Actually I am on the brink of "fried brains syndrome" most of the time.

I will do the poll on the weekend.

Please do know how much I personally appreciate the depth of coverage you are giving to so many topics in our new Legal and Advisory secton.

:blushhh:
 

Randip Singh

Writer
Historian
SPNer
May 25, 2005
2,935
2,949
55
United Kingdom
All jios

There's a Happy Middle Ground, though; but then I've lived with five women who weren't my 'wife', and I learned a little more about what sort of person that I might want to marry from every one of them.

I only wanted love once and was only ever intimate with one woman. Not that women were not interested in me, I did not feel the need to pursue many physical relationships.

Yet I find I am judged on this, which I think is a virtue, many think a weakness. This IS the problem we face today and celeb culture is directly to blame for this.
 
Jan 1, 2010
517
490
60
Dear Rajneesh Madho ji
Wow! Such heat in your tone of writing; I detect more anger determining your views, when I see them more as a misunderstanding, as you have judged me poorly.
Firstly: I was NOT disagreeing with your POV - I merely said thet there are two sides to everything; and, since I am FAR from oversexed (Hundreds? You DISHONOR me!), and I feel that I have done my best to avoid getting into a Bad Marriage - as MY own culture actually is, I'd heartilly agree, rather messed up on that subject.
Let me get to the Point; I DO have what you call Gyan (Enlightenment, etc.), and My 'Book of Life' - including the Sexual Parts - has been 'read' in Gods presence (if you read my other bits - like Introducing Myself, you'll learn what I actually am; some have said Avdhoot, others 'Rinpoche').
This is the origin of my Feelings and Views on the subject; as there is one thing NOW that was NOT THERE when these time honored traditions (which many modern Hindus despise, I also know) - which are/were intended to provide a Good, Stable Home and Loving, Capable Familly to provide for any Children that might come about as a result of the marriage - were adopted; and not just by Indian/Asian/Eastern Socieites; and that's Birth Control.
Thus, The Great Ones opinions seemed to be that (as I tried to say, before you bit my head off!) finding ones 'Perfect Soul Mate' is much, much more important than preventing unwanted pregnacies - by marrying off LITTLE CHILDREN, in the interest of those future adults own Offspring!
Did it ever occur to you that Gods own POV would change, as WE change the World God Created for us?
You think that I merely "Crave Flesh" (which is true, in MODERATION) - or that I'm "Lost in Maya", but I'm actually just relaying what I was shown/told/had imparted to me, in my Holy Visions; which, BTW, resulted in a White Streak - one taht was NOT there before - appearing my my HAIR!
And, NO, I ws not (obviously) DREAMING; and I've read Freud, Jung, etc. - so learning about 'Dream Interpretation' is also not necessary for anyone to mention.
As I've also repeated, by many American Mens standards I - personally - am not a 'Real Man'; which they like to tease me about, because I HAVEN'T abused enough Women - or had enough Multi-Sexual relations - as much as THOSE FOOLS think I should have, to meet with their approval of my 'Macho-ness'.
There are, again, to extremes here; and the Middle Path is open to you, once you get over your misguilded preconceptions regarding what I was ACTUALLY trying to say!
Do you REALLY think Child Marriage is the Right Thing to do? How about Out-of-Caste Marriage? All those unhappy young ladies....it BREAKS MY HEART to SEE IT; and if it affects me that way - the above considered - then, I assure you, it is viewed by Our Very Beautiful and LOVING-KIND Lord, as well.
God is LOVE - and what I see that you've shown me here is called HATERED, or Prejudice!
I've read an abridged version of the Kama Sutra - and seen Photos of the Temple Art; and what European/American Society was like before they became 'known' in those spheres of influence, was remarkably like what existed in Asians Socieites - with the exception of the Tantric Cultures who TREID to set us all Free.
The way we did things before the so-called 'sexual revolution' leads to Emotional PAIN (always a Bad Thing!), to little boys being futtered in back rooms, the '30 Minute Marriages' (to a Widow) that Muslim Men one can BUY from the Clerics in Qum (Iran)to Child prostitution, etc.; the way we do things NOW - without the Wisdom of Moderation - leads to Tiger Woods, our American Presidential Candidate John Edwards cheating one his spouse...etc..
It's all in Moderation - and, so, BOTH of us are BOTH Right and Wrong, Man who uses a Ying/Yang as his Avatar!
Of ALL people, I'd think that YOU should KNOW that!
Ever hear of a 'Walking Marriage'? It's a Custom in some South Asians (Tibetan) people practice; and it sounds emminently sensible to me - as NO ONE gets HURT because of Bonds that should never have been established, simply for the sake of 'honoring custom', in the first place!
I'll get back to all of you jios on this subject when I have more time.
It's what we call a 'Hot Potato'!
Trust Me - I wouldn't DARE to lie about such things! Not unless someone shows me a working matter transmutation device - in 1990!

Dear JimRinX ji,
I am sorry if you find my writing tone a bit harsh. I have no anger but tried to describe my point. I regret for the same if you think that I judged you poorly due to misunderstanding.
I can say that if you have not disagreed to my point of view in other words I can say that you have not agreed to me. I agree to you that there are two sides of the coin. I have not pointed my finger at you but I had just explained the matter that suppose one has mingled with 100 persons of opposite sex even then one can not decide which is the best match as life partner.
I come to the point “Have you ever heard about Mrig Trishana” These are hindi words. In Hindi Mrig is called to Deer. And Trishana means desire. Now I come to the conclusion. This is scientifically proved definition.
I practically define Mrig Trishana- Desire of Deer: During summer season of May-June-July when In India there is scorching sun stroke, you are moving in your car and are very thirsty due to scorching heat. On both sides of the road the trees have been planted. Now see, I have practical experience of this definition. From distance when you look at the road you will feel at some distance where the shade of tree fall on the road there is water. From distant place you will be 100% sure that there is water. But when your reach to the spot there is nothing like water. Why the person who was confident about the water about 200 yds away and can show the water to the adjoining passenger as well don’t find water on reaching the spot.
I can prove that multiple relations are like Mrig Trishana Desire of Deer. Which can not be accomplished in any case. I admire your view point and if you are agreed to the point then I hope that it will be a best decision to live peaceful life.
What you pointed out regarding Gyan (Enlightenment) this is what we want to highlight. God is Great. He has provided human being the beautiful body but we people are giving another shape to His gift. If we consider the body of the woman. He has blessed her with breasts—Why he arranged for the food of kid before its birth. But we people don’t consider the gifts of the almighty but moves our thinking to sexual parts.
Sexual relations are gifted by the almighty to produce next generation, to provide stable home and loving atmosphere in the home. The stability can be achieved by marriage. I stressed to adopt those factors.
If you say that we develop sexual relations and avoid pregnancies and make enjoyment and this way we shall be able to find a Perfect soul mate. No this is not a right step. You have highlighted the points of Child marriages for the interest of adults offspring. I hope you have not come to India especially to Punjab. This part of the county is a bit advanced and the Child marriages are not being made here. Secondly Punjab is a bit prosperous state and so the poor people are not so poor that they don’t get two end meal. These type of the problems are not here.
I could not understand what do you mean by Gods own POV would change. But it is very sure that God has crated us not we created the God.
Secondly Kindly tell me What do you mean by BTW, I have heard this phrase so many times but don’t know what is meant by it.
In modern era you may say that the sexual relations are part of CRAVE FLESH. But go in to the message of almighty you will find He has made the human creatures fo the pure and pious relations.
You may not be obviously DREAMING but Dreams play impact role in one’s development.
Your version has been changing and now your are saying that you have not abused enough women or had not made enough Multi sexual relations. Still you are feeling that those are due to your Machoness. Can you prove to your self that you are the Macho Man. Have you ever studied Economics. In Economics there is Vicious circle of Demand. Firstly Demand occurs----Efforts----Satisfaction----Demand. This is the law of nature and Economics Definition that when the demand occurs we make efforts, with efforts there is satisfaction and now I come to the point when there is satisfaction then again the Demand occurs. So, the Demands are unlimited and Means are Limited. Forget about your Machoness.
You have so many misconceptions. You are diverting the subject to Child Marriage. The subject of discussion is not Child marriage even then I explained. Still it is prevalent in our country to get married within caste. If the boy and girl agrees to it then what is the harm to it. Have you considered how many couples are happy with getting married within their castes. What do you mean by IT BREAKS MY HEART TO SEE. With multiple sexual relations one did not have such type of feelings. We should not consider about Tiger Woods or any other dignitaries like John Edwards, you will find hundreds of cases those have cheated with their spouse. But betrayal is not good at any stage. I have never heard about walking marriage. If it is the custom then there will be a deep cause about such relations. We should argue on the subject after studying the matter deeply.
Any way thanks for sharing your feelings.
We trust you. I admire your feelings and are thankful to you that you truly specified all factors.
What is the working matter transmission device 1990, I have never heard about it.

Rajneesh Madhok
 

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
SPNer
Jun 17, 2004
14,500
19,219
rajneesh ji

I love the context you painted for "Mrig Trishana- Desire of Deer" as in a state of fundamental delusion. You used the idea of our being on an endless road where we are the dupes of one mirage after another.

In gurbani, the desire of a deer is so described. Even the trees are part of the imagery of Guruji as the deer cannot wrest itself from the trees which carry a scent of musk. And so by only the trace sensations of the object of his carnal desire he is enslaved.

Mirage after mirage. You have really used an inspiring image. There are so many tuks about deer that are "caught" by their entanglement in Maya in Sri Guru Granth Sahib.

ਹਰਿਚੰਦਉਰੀ ਚਿਤ ਭ੍ਰਮੁ ਸਖੀਏ ਮ੍ਰਿਗ ਤ੍ਰਿਸਨਾ ਦ੍ਰੁਮ ਛਾਇਆ ॥
harichandhouree chith bhram sakheeeae mrig thrisanaa dhraam shhaaeiaa ||
Maya is a mirage, which deludes the mind, O my companion, like the scent-crazed deer, or the transitory shade of a tree.

Manyo of these shabads that use the metaphor of a deer speak about the suffering that comes from unending obsessions (like the endless road you speak of). Here is a shabad that I think fits this stretch of our conversation very well. It is from raag Aasaa, Ang 438. It makes the point very well. Little explanation is needed.

ਆਸਾ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ਛੰਤ ਘਰੁ ੩ ॥
aasaa mehalaa 1 shhanth ghar 3 ||
Aasaa, First Mehl, Chhant, Third House:

ਓਹੁ ਜੇਵ ਸਾਇਰ ਦੇਇ ਲਹਰੀ ਬਿਜੁਲ ਜਿਵੈ ਚਮਕਏ ॥
ouhu jaev saaeir dhaee leharee bijul jivai chamakeae ||
It is temporary, like the waves on the sea, and the flash of lightning.


ਹਰਿ ਬਾਝੁ ਰਾਖਾ ਕੋਇ ਨਾਹੀ ਸੋਇ ਤੁਝਹਿ ਬਿਸਾਰਿਆ ॥
har baajh raakhaa koe naahee soe thujhehi bisaariaa ||
Without the Lord, there is no other protector, but you have forgotten Him.

ਤੂੰ ਸੁਣਿ ਹਰਣਾ ਕਾਲਿਆ ਕੀ ਵਾੜੀਐ ਰਾਤਾ ਰਾਮ ॥
thoon sun haranaa kaaliaa kee vaarreeai raathaa raam ||
Listen, O black deer: why are you so attached to the orchard of passion?


ਬਿਖੁ ਫਲੁ ਮੀਠਾ ਚਾਰਿ ਦਿਨ ਫਿਰਿ ਹੋਵੈ ਤਾਤਾ ਰਾਮ ॥
bikh fal meethaa chaar dhin fir hovai thaathaa raam ||
The fruit of sin is sweet for only a few days, and then it grows hot and bitter.


ਫਿਰਿ ਹੋਇ ਤਾਤਾ ਖਰਾ ਮਾਤਾ ਨਾਮ ਬਿਨੁ ਪਰਤਾਪਏ ॥
fir hoe thaathaa kharaa maathaa naam bin parathaapeae ||
That fruit which intoxicated you has now become bitter and painful, without the Naam.
 

JimRinX

SPNer
Aug 13, 2008
166
148
Portland, Oregon, U.S.A.
Narayanjot and Rajneesh jios
Firstly let me, also, say that I apollogize for the rash seeming tone of my last message; as I've been forced to Justify some things that I - supposedly - did to one or two of the women that have come into my life in 'that way', and I get pretty touchy about the whole thing; but then I'm an Honest Man - at least when it comes to recognizing the Karma of my Deeds, as well as in my being Honest with Myself about what that actially means to the way my life is going to be played out, but also what it will mean to me the next time my ;Book of Life; us Read, before The Great Eye of God, &tc., &tc., &tc.
"BTW" means "By The Way", and it is used in Text Messaging, which we do so often by Cell Phones that limit messages to a set nymber of characters, so there are many, many such abbreviations, like also; OMG!: for "Oh! My God!"; or 'LOL', for, "Laugh Out Loud" (Narayanjot used that one, after seeing the John Ford Coley Video).
I also believe that things like ascetism - going without sex, and fasting a lot, say - have their place in the prusuit of Enlightenment; though I, myself, am boud to 'Action' after learning that that was to be My Dharma, when I, once, was very much NOT Dreaming an Epiphany of Great Wonder, the left me Marked; so I never ever take giving such advice - especially to those of the so-called Dharma-based Faiths; as I understand the consequences of doing That, as well as I Recognize those of the Relationships that I've been in, and wouldn't dare to fail in trying to factor in all the 'Karma Variables' that each Instance presents, &tc., &tc., &tc..
Do me One Honor; please also say that I was cautioning against giving into CRAVE FLESH - though not at all COMPLETELY!!! - as it can lead to Experiments in Relationships that were never meant to be in the first place; as the Fact thaty Such Relationships Happen, is what's behind my entire point about doing some experimenting before you Marry; but then, as you'd quickly find out, if you lived in America, the Women of Quality (my standards are about normal for an American) know this, too; and, though we sometimes, with full pre-coital mutual affirmation of the fact, do have 'casual sexual relations', they are also - if they're wise, and most are, since they have Great Suffrage in America, and make Careers instead of Babies much more often than in many parts of the World - going to be looking for a Soul Mate, and they neither want to break any hearts along the way, nor do they want to be involved with a Man who they just know, say, is never going to be someone they want to have kid - let alone grow old. with; so they also don't want to sleep around as unecessarilly as many non-Americans (those listening to too many TV Preachers, perhaps; always craying out for "HIS mighty FIST" to "CRUSH" those they don't like, you see, they refuse to Stoke Their Egos - like the OTHERS!)
I'm sorry to say that I just read an E-mail from an NGO (a Non-Governmental Organization) that does Good Work in India (and, no, they don't try to 'Convert' people); and they were talking about helping Women who have been forced into marriages that were brutal - not just loveless; and Women who Fell in Love with a Man outside of Their Own Caste; as they said, in many cases, these Women are Rejected by their famillies and clans, and, so, they need various kinds of Social Services that this particular NGO Provides through the Donations (I tend to support mostly Environmental Causes) they were asking me for some of, etc..
Thus, I was not criticising when I said that THAT 'Broke My Heart' to see; sorry if it sounded like I was scolding Time Honored Tradition - just because Times have also Begun to Change, and People seek Guildance for those able to see the 'Seed Within' such things, and give a Good Report, by which one may Analyze the Karma of these New Things that may have come into Our World; as that's what People like me - Trouble Maker, if your, say, a Crack Smoking Judge who needs some one to come along and teach you a lesson for Abusing Your Authority (I'm "Hell, On Wheels" to Bad Guys).
I guess, in the end, your own misconceptions have led you to assume that I had some of my own; but, once again, you sort of dishonored me - though that does not matter, and I do not mind (hopefully!) opening your eyes a bit, as it's not easy being both 'Blessed" and "Cursed" by my "Gift".
BTW (Now that you know......): I, no doubt, would be amazed by the Punjab; especially since I actually consider that, in the Buddhas Teachings, lies a Solution to establishing some kind of Indo-Pak Amity; which would be Good for Everybody, as even the small-ish Nuclear {censored}nals of India and Pakistan could cause a "Global Nuclear Winter". Some day - perhaps when my Country finally makes our own peace with your neighbors, I hope to come to the Punjab; both parts; and seeing The Golden Temple in person is just one reason, as I, of course, would be close enough to Dharmasala to (perhaps) take tea with Tenzing.
BTW #2: When I mentioned smelling a certain Perfume, it wasn't because it aroused my ardor, but because it reminds me of a certain Rene - or a Sarah, or maybe even a Sue; but in a melancholy, and totally non-sexual kind of way.
Lastly: I know a LOT of Scientist (I have a 'Automatic Admission to Mensa Level' IQ), and many of them a Atheist - they believ in No God at all; no afterlife; no nothing; it's all just entropic systems that, through obeying the Laws of Physics, somehow manage to spontaneously generate being that have Our Kind of Awareness, though these would be an Amazing Feat when considering the semi-random nature of the systems involved!!!
This is why I mentioned the 'working matter transMUTATION (not transMITION; though the Tech would require the same capabilities)'; as I really did have that White Streak appear in my Hair, and, out of wanting to explain how that kind of thing could happen, I finally, with my thorough knowledge of the various Science, realized that either God was Real, and I'd had a Personal Audience that'd left a Mark on Me, or someone would have had to have such a Device, and it would have had to be working in 1990; as that's when I lay out in the grass beside a lovely pond - as it WAS under the Tree! - and took the Journey of All My Lifetimes.
ikonkaar
 
Jan 1, 2010
517
490
60
Narayanjot and Rajneesh jios
Firstly let me, also, say that I apollogize for the rash seeming tone of my last message; as I've been forced to Justify some things that I - supposedly - did to one or two of the women that have come into my life in 'that way', and I get pretty touchy about the whole thing; but then I'm an Honest Man - at least when it comes to recognizing the Karma of my Deeds, as well as in my being Honest with Myself about what that actially means to the way my life is going to be played out, but also what it will mean to me the next time my ;Book of Life; us Read, before The Great Eye of God, &tc., &tc., &tc.
"BTW" means "By The Way", and it is used in Text Messaging, which we do so often by Cell Phones that limit messages to a set nymber of characters, so there are many, many such abbreviations, like also; OMG!: for "Oh! My God!"; or 'LOL', for, "Laugh Out Loud" (Narayanjot used that one, after seeing the John Ford Coley Video).
I also believe that things like ascetism - going without sex, and fasting a lot, say - have their place in the prusuit of Enlightenment; though I, myself, am boud to 'Action' after learning that that was to be My Dharma, when I, once, was very much NOT Dreaming an Epiphany of Great Wonder, the left me Marked; so I never ever take giving such advice - especially to those of the so-called Dharma-based Faiths; as I understand the consequences of doing That, as well as I Recognize those of the Relationships that I've been in, and wouldn't dare to fail in trying to factor in all the 'Karma Variables' that each Instance presents, &tc., &tc., &tc..
Do me One Honor; please also say that I was cautioning against giving into CRAVE FLESH - though not at all COMPLETELY!!! - as it can lead to Experiments in Relationships that were never meant to be in the first place; as the Fact thaty Such Relationships Happen, is what's behind my entire point about doing some experimenting before you Marry; but then, as you'd quickly find out, if you lived in America, the Women of Quality (my standards are about normal for an American) know this, too; and, though we sometimes, with full pre-coital mutual affirmation of the fact, do have 'casual sexual relations', they are also - if they're wise, and most are, since they have Great Suffrage in America, and make Careers instead of Babies much more often than in many parts of the World - going to be looking for a Soul Mate, and they neither want to break any hearts along the way, nor do they want to be involved with a Man who they just know, say, is never going to be someone they want to have kid - let alone grow old. with; so they also don't want to sleep around as unecessarilly as many non-Americans (those listening to too many TV Preachers, perhaps; always craying out for "HIS mighty FIST" to "CRUSH" those they don't like, you see, they refuse to Stoke Their Egos - like the OTHERS!)
I'm sorry to say that I just read an E-mail from an NGO (a Non-Governmental Organization) that does Good Work in India (and, no, they don't try to 'Convert' people); and they were talking about helping Women who have been forced into marriages that were brutal - not just loveless; and Women who Fell in Love with a Man outside of Their Own Caste; as they said, in many cases, these Women are Rejected by their famillies and clans, and, so, they need various kinds of Social Services that this particular NGO Provides through the Donations (I tend to support mostly Environmental Causes) they were asking me for some of, etc..
Thus, I was not criticising when I said that THAT 'Broke My Heart' to see; sorry if it sounded like I was scolding Time Honored Tradition - just because Times have also Begun to Change, and People seek Guildance for those able to see the 'Seed Within' such things, and give a Good Report, by which one may Analyze the Karma of these New Things that may have come into Our World; as that's what People like me - Trouble Maker, if your, say, a Crack Smoking Judge who needs some one to come along and teach you a lesson for Abusing Your Authority (I'm "Hell, On Wheels" to Bad Guys).
I guess, in the end, your own misconceptions have led you to assume that I had some of my own; but, once again, you sort of dishonored me - though that does not matter, and I do not mind (hopefully!) opening your eyes a bit, as it's not easy being both 'Blessed" and "Cursed" by my "Gift".
BTW (Now that you know......): I, no doubt, would be amazed by the Punjab; especially since I actually consider that, in the Buddhas Teachings, lies a Solution to establishing some kind of Indo-Pak Amity; which would be Good for Everybody, as even the small-ish Nuclear {censored}nals of India and Pakistan could cause a "Global Nuclear Winter". Some day - perhaps when my Country finally makes our own peace with your neighbors, I hope to come to the Punjab; both parts; and seeing The Golden Temple in person is just one reason, as I, of course, would be close enough to Dharmasala to (perhaps) take tea with Tenzing.
BTW #2: When I mentioned smelling a certain Perfume, it wasn't because it aroused my ardor, but because it reminds me of a certain Rene - or a Sarah, or maybe even a Sue; but in a melancholy, and totally non-sexual kind of way.
Lastly: I know a LOT of Scientist (I have a 'Automatic Admission to Mensa Level' IQ), and many of them a Atheist - they believ in No God at all; no afterlife; no nothing; it's all just entropic systems that, through obeying the Laws of Physics, somehow manage to spontaneously generate being that have Our Kind of Awareness, though these would be an Amazing Feat when considering the semi-random nature of the systems involved!!!
This is why I mentioned the 'working matter transMUTATION (not transMITION; though the Tech would require the same capabilities)'; as I really did have that White Streak appear in my Hair, and, out of wanting to explain how that kind of thing could happen, I finally, with my thorough knowledge of the various Science, realized that either God was Real, and I'd had a Personal Audience that'd left a Mark on Me, or someone would have had to have such a Device, and it would have had to be working in 1990; as that's when I lay out in the grass beside a lovely pond - as it WAS under the Tree! - and took the Journey of All My Lifetimes.
ikonkaar
Dear JinRinX ji,
Thanks for your kind message it hardly matters when we are discussing on the issue at the table or in the forum usually on use harsh words and tone when anybody want to prove his point correct but still the other person don’t approve the point. Secondly not even a single manner has forced you to justify what you have done with one or two women. The point we have been discussing multiple relations more than one relations are obviously are multiple secondly if you felt touchy then it means that you yourself admitted that multiple relations are not good. What is honesty---“Nau sau choohe kha ke billi haz ko chali” Do you know the meaning of this proverb---- “After eating 900 rats, the cat goes on a pilgrimage” Do you know why this proverb is being used.
Basically it when you did a lot of bad stuff in your life and then you say you are going to the temple/ church. I would like to explain, You could always cheat on quizzes in class, then when its time for the final exam, condemn the act of cheating altogether.
This quote hints that who have always been sinful, done a lot of crimes and are now acting innocent by doing a pure, clean act which is more of a Sham. You know what the Sham preachers are doing now-a-days. “Ik baba nanak si jihne tur ke duniya gah ti, ik aaj kal de babe ne batti lal gaddi te la ti” There was one Baba Nanak who traveled the world by walking and today’s Sham preachers have put red beacon on top of their vehicles.
Have you ever seen Hindi movies. There are so many Hindi movies one of them is “Muqqadar ka Sikandar” in which the criminal who has killed over 100 men and raped the actress after making crimes he enters in politics and becomes a minister and delivers an emotional speech on 15th August signifying the importance of peace and brothehood.
This remark is based on a person who tries to veil his shameful acts by showing himself as Gentleman. Another example that one indulged in corruption, suddenly he starts talking of morals in order to show himself pure and uncorrupted. Dear one should consider before committing all the crimes, it is better to understand ourselves why we prentend to go for salvation. In Hindu mythology we go to Haridwar to “Pap dhone jate hain” To wash our sins and in Muslim mythology man after committing hundreds of .sins go to Kaaba to wash them.
“Have you ever heard Bandar kya jane adrak ka swad” Monkey does not know the taste of ginger. Whether you are honest or not, this decision will be taken by the society and almighty. The Appellant and Respondent are two different persons, the judgment of the case can be made by the Judge not by Appellant or Respondent. You yourself know about the your karma and deeds. All our deeds are being accounted for and we shall be accountable for all our good and bad deeds.
I am thankful to you for providing the full form of abbrevaiated form words which we people in India generally use full form. In our text messages even we use complete words than abbreviated words. As we use dictionary mode while writing message and in this mode in India by pressing single letter we keep on writing message. You have never practiced Chastity ( Going without sex and secondly fasting) as you have written. We practice it, say during Navratras (9 days when we worship Goddess Ma), believe me during Navratras the animals those are being butchered daily there strength come to 30-40%. There is no restriction by the Govt. but it’s the people’s mentality. Whether we consider about the results of our sins or not, the teachings are universal we don’t need preachers to getting teachings on the subject. Consider about all your relations and go through your posts then decide what you like to say.
Consider your view points. Don’t do experiments in developing relationships. Before marriage the experiments made by sexually involving with the opposite sex is the factor which is un approved and illogical way of proving your self correct. I could not understand what do you mean by the woman of quality (my standards are about normal for An American) know this too. What the woman knows that she is the woman of Quality so she approves the pre-coital mutual affirmation and is agreed to Casual Sexual relation. One of our member had differed with you though that member also live in America. You have got illusion of the Woman of Quality kindly consider your point once again. If you say that American girls are wise that they indulge in physical relations and don’t like to give birth to babies and are too much Career conscious. I request to other members to kindly throw light on your version that whether the Physical relations are more important to lay peaceful life, Career is more important than peaceful married life. When the girls have involved in sexual relations then how the questions of breaking of heart arise. They don’t want to give birth to kid and in your opinion those girls and the boys are wise and those start their marital life peacefully and give birth to the kids and by the grace of almighty brought them up are stupid. This is what you like to teach. Dear I don’t need the preaches from the American preachers, your preaches are certainly appealing to everybody.
Dear you have mentioned about the E-mail from and Ngo form India, First of all I would like to suggest you kindly don’t trust the E-mails received from any NGO from India, most of the E-mails are being sent by crooks and they have nothing to do with the humanity. They people extort money and enjoy with the money received by dozing people. There is a lot of wrong propaganda made to extort money, actually the cases of forced marriages and brutality are very rare say 1 in 1000 i.e. .1%. Almost 99% cases those are being reported in Media regarding Dowry Deaths and related to 498 A are fake cases. The reason of dispute is being turned to Dowry harassment and the police became active as in Dowry harassment cases the police can harass the boy side’s males and females for the best reasons known to them. Secondly the woman are not being rejected by the families. Kindly go through the cause. The parents used to make the children understand what is wrong or right depending upon various circumstances. As the girls and boys those are involved in love affairs don’t listen to their parents version. Actually that is attraction to opposite sex. We have seen hundreds of cases, when the parents have married off their daughters in the their interests considering about the future prospects and those marriages are successful. If you get E-mail with regard to these reasons those are 100% fake E-mails and no such NGO operate in India. Don’t Donate to those fraud persons. Why do you support those fraudulent persons The time has changed now. The young generation is smart enough, no body can do highhandedness to them.
Now I agree to you that you are a great philanthropist, but kindly take a look on the sacrifices of the Gurus, “Band-band kataye, Aareyan naal chiraye gaye, tatti loaan te baithaye gaye, par see na kiti” who have been cut-in pieces, cut in two by saw machines, were plated on the hot pan but not uttered a single word ---- sacrificed for the humanity.
It is not my misconceptions and I have not dishonoured you. I presented my opinions on the matter you discussed. When we are sitting on a table to discuss our points then we should not mind and don’t think that one is dishonoring other intentionally. There may be difference of opinions. It is part of discussion no body is here to be blessed or cursed.
You have certain misconception about India, its people and you are thinking that the people of India are deprived a lot. Kindly come to India and see with your eyes the position of India. You will find each and every type of person in India. There are Wealthy people and believe me those are wealthy to extreme and there are poor people those are poor at the extreme, those don’t get two square meal. Your country (US) is the dramatist, your country is doing what the Britishers done. Divide and Rule. If there will be peace in the world then to whom USA will sell its stock of arms and ammunition. The US industries are based on arms and ammunition. US is not producing anything which is good for the humanity. It exports the items of war, the cost of say Revolver is about Rs 1:50 lakh. What has been planted in it. Whether it is made of Gold. No. it is made of iron sheet and all the parts are made of iron. The weight is about 100 grams. Now calculate at how much rate the finished product of Iron Sheet had been sold. In this amount the tons of Iron, iron ore, coal can be purchased. This is the reason of development of US. This is a smallest product’s example. Now go on caculating the cost of Fighter jets and how much weight it has and what is the cost of Fighter jets. Visit India you will find the pious and cultured persons.
I had given the example of the perfume and I had not meant that it will arouse your sexual feelings. There are so many Atheist in India also those don’t believe the presence of God. It depends upon person to person. We can’t force anybody that he should agree to the point and admit the existence of God.
You are talking childish, who will prove you the existence of God. When you will study in deep about the existence of God then it will put a remarkable impression on you yourself. Nobody has so much time to convince you and no body has a stick of magic that will show you the existence of God (What sort of Device you like to get that will prove the existence of God). You yourself will have to cover your journey No body can do for you.



Rajneesh Madhok
 

JimRinX

SPNer
Aug 13, 2008
166
148
Portland, Oregon, U.S.A.
Everyone
I'm glad to see this poll; it's actually just exactly what I'd have expected to see Indian Peoples, of whatever particular 'stock', voting like, on this issue - providing they're not feeling pressured (as they sometimes feel, in my predominantly Christian Nation - which affects me, too, though I'm "white") to pretend to be 'Moral' by 'Other Peoples Religious Fanatics' as, I'd swear, they sometimes seem to have made a Taboo out of everything; even the perfectly 'natural' and FUN things!
Well, back to the slog; BTW, John Ford Coley is, I'd bet, a 'Born Again Christian' - I'd bet that, because he talks about 'cheating', in the intro to his Video (which I posted, above); and 'cheating' would probably mean to him, if he is one of those, ANY kind of pre-marital sex; and, though I posted that Video, I do not agree with the Born Again Christian POV that that kind of thing is necessarilly 'bad'.
Thanks for the POLL; now I know I'll enjoy coming to visit the Punjab some day (I'm a brave enough American) - though I have many things in my life, right here where I'm at, that really need dealing with right now! People ending up dead, and things! Time to be The Good Guy! People like US, we love that kind of thing now, don't we?
 
Jan 1, 2010
517
490
60
Kindly opt for the under-mentioned poll considering the following points: .

  • Should Government regulate the cohabition of unmarried couples? Yes! The Govt should regulate because the Govt is created by the people, for the people and so the Govt is duty bound to look in to the interest of the public.
  • In a constitutional democracy this question should be decided by the electrorate. Yes! Because in democracy the people has right to cast their mandate and so it should be decided by the electorate. With the decisions of the people, the Govt will be successful in formulate policies those are beneficial for the people and to them they consider useful for them.
  • In as secular democracy the government should play no role. Cohabition is a private matter. ------No doubt the intercourse is a private matter but the policies for the benefit of the people can be framed only then if the Govt will know the view points of the public. Yes! So, The Govt’s role in this direction should be considered in democracy.
  • Any regulation of cohabitation by government should be guided by majority religious sentiments. ---Yes the religious sentiments should be considered by the Govt.
  • Cohabition should be protected by laws that uphold the fundamental right to privacy. Yes! Because though Cohabition is the fundamental right but to avoid the misuse of it the protection of law is necessary.
  • Cohabitation should be banned, it undermines core social values, including loyalty to family----Intercourse should be banned, this point differs from person to person but should not be banned, it undermines core social value, including loyalty to family----this opinion differs person to person.
  • Cohabition should be banned., it undermines core religious values found in nearly every society. ---- Intercourse should be banned it undermines core religious values, it opinion differs from person to person.
I request to dear members to kindly share your views in the thread.
Rajneesh Madhok
 
Jan 1, 2010
517
490
60
SC quashes 'pre-marital sex' cases against Khushboo - India - The Times of India

NEW DELHI: The Supreme Court on Wednesday quashed 22 criminal cases filed against South Indian actress Khushboo for her remarks in various magazines allegedly endorsing pre-marital sex.

A bench comprising Chief Justice K G Balakrishnan and Justices Deepak Verma and B S Chauhan allowed the appeal filed by the actress against the decision of the Madras High Court which had dismissed her plea to quash the cases.

The cases were registered in various places in Tamil Nadu for her interviews in 2005.

Khushboo had challenged the 2008 ruling of the Madras High Court, which had dismissed her plea to scrap various criminal cases against her for the controversial remark.

In a speech earlier, Khushboo had said there was nothing wrong with pre-marital sex and live-in relationships. In its ruling the bench asked: "When two adults want to live together, what is the offence? Does it amount to an offence? Living together is not an offence. It cannot be an offence."

The court had said the views expressed by her were personal. And no one had the right to question the personal thinking of a person, the court said.

The bench had also asked the complainants to produce evidence of any girls eloping after the statement.

Why is Khushboo a very famous South Indian actress under the limelight of media and judiciary court?

Rajneesh Madhok
 

JimRinX

SPNer
Aug 13, 2008
166
148
Portland, Oregon, U.S.A.
All jios
Good for the SC - good for India. Though Rajneesh ji thinks I was talking 'trash' - or implying that I was making some sort of slight regarding the Wisdom and Virtue of 'American Girls -vs- Indian Girls' I wasn't; as I, in fact, am really, really glad for the very real influence that you deleted adjective sub-continent types had on the Raj - and, thus, uptight, religiously/sexually repressed Western Culture.
Just research 'Hysteria' and the fact that OB/GYN's used to, basically mastribate their patients to 'relieve' this 'symptom' of this supposed 'disease' - when the real cause of the 'problem' was stupid ideas like 'Sex is for making babies ONLY' being part of the more orthodox Christian Beliefs.
Those Ideas caused a LOT of pain and suffering in the West - and translations of the Kama Sutra, in the Victorian Era, began the long, slow process of setting all of us FREE that the Hippies, in the 1960's (My 58 year old sister amongst them), finnished.
My Points were all about how you use this Freedom - about the Karma of what you do, now that this Freedom has been Legally Endorsed.
Have you read about the 'Abstinence Only' Program that George W Bush set up to please his very narrow minded Ultra-Orthodox Christian constituency? I can't tell them apart from Mullah Omar or Osama bin Laden!
I'm With You on this one - NOT against you, Rajneesh ji!
Freedom to do what you please is freedom to mess up - so my analysis of the Karma of it all is what I have to offer, for the reasons I've mentioned.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

kds1980

SPNer
Apr 3, 2005
4,502
2,743
43
INDIA
SC quashes 'pre-marital sex' cases against Khushboo - India - The Times of India

NEW DELHI: The Supreme Court on Wednesday quashed 22 criminal cases filed against South Indian actress Khushboo for her remarks in various magazines allegedly endorsing pre-marital sex.

A bench comprising Chief Justice K G Balakrishnan and Justices Deepak Verma and B S Chauhan allowed the appeal filed by the actress against the decision of the Madras High Court which had dismissed her plea to quash the cases.

The cases were registered in various places in Tamil Nadu for her interviews in 2005.

Khushboo had challenged the 2008 ruling of the Madras High Court, which had dismissed her plea to scrap various criminal cases against her for the controversial remark.

In a speech earlier, Khushboo had said there was nothing wrong with pre-marital sex and live-in relationships. In its ruling the bench asked: "When two adults want to live together, what is the offence? Does it amount to an offence? Living together is not an offence. It cannot be an offence."

The court had said the views expressed by her were personal. And no one had the right to question the personal thinking of a person, the court said.

The bench had also asked the complainants to produce evidence of any girls eloping after the statement.

Why is Khushboo a very famous South Indian actress under the limelight of media and judiciary court?

Rajneesh Madhok

Filmstars are totally dependent on Publicity ,good or bad.As long as they are in Media they can earn their bread and butter Once out of Media their career is over.Whatever they say or do is mainly for publicity.It is quite possible that she herself told some organisations to lodge case against her
 
Jan 1, 2010
517
490
60
Dear Kanwardeepji,
I agree to you that it may be a publicity stunt. The entertainment business depends upon popularity. The Film stars become rich because the public wants to know about their personal life. So, they people try to highlight themselves in Media. Publicity is the main area to explore that don't require to make a complete career change to at least test the waters. You just have to be willing to get a little wet. A few years back Raj Kapoor the Great showman of India when released his film "Ram Teri Ganga Maili" himself created the hue and cry that the film heroine Mandakini has been shown topless in the film. Before release of the film the publicity was so high that the film became block-buster. The funda was that in a scene there is a song Ram Teri Ganga Maili ho gayi papiyon ke paap dhote dhote. ---"Ram your Ganga (Ganga in other words are called river Ganges) has become dirty while lifting the sins of sinners"In that scene the heroine has put on a saree (Single Piece cloth worn by ladies) of Malmal (Muslin cloth)and Director picturised the scene by getting the Saree wet. Firstly the Malmal Saree is a transparent cloth. Secondly when it got wet the Scene got Top-less Scene. With this publicity on the suit had been filed and the Sensor Board became active. On that point Raj Kapoor justified his point that the Heroine has put on clothes and so he has not picturized any nude scene.

Rajneesh Madhok
 

kds1980

SPNer
Apr 3, 2005
4,502
2,743
43
INDIA
The actresses that endorses pre marital sex should be asked first why don't they go for children without marriage Like hollywood actresses?.Hardly any actress in India has a child from her B/F or live in partner.They wait to get married for children or never go for children.
So even they are afraid of society that if they have a child then that child is going to be taunted as ******* or ******.If the fear of society which is much more liberal than common Indian society is in their mind then on What basis they give advice to Girls which are living in 5-10 times conservative society
 
Jan 1, 2010
517
490
60
The actresses that endorses pre marital sex should be asked first why don't they go for children without marriage Like hollywood actresses?.Hardly any actress in India has a child from her B/F or live in partner.They wait to get married for children or never go for children.
So even they are afraid of society that if they have a child then that child is going to be taunted as ******* or ******.If the fear of society which is much more liberal than common Indian society is in their mind then on What basis they give advice to Girls which are living in 5-10 times conservative society

Neena Gupta , Indian TV Actress
Go for in detail about Neena Gupta and his live in relationship and given birth to a baby girl from her live in relationship with Vivian Richards.

Rajneesh Madhok
 

❤️ CLICK HERE TO JOIN SPN MOBILE PLATFORM

❤️ CLICK HERE TO JOIN SPN MOBILE PLATFORM

📌 For all latest updates, follow the Official Sikh Philosophy Network Whatsapp Channel:
Top