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Is meat eating by Sikhs acceptable in Sikhism or not?

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by palaingtha, Sep 9, 2012.

  1. palaingtha

    palaingtha India
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    When Amrit Sanchar is done in Gurdwaras the acting PANJ PIARAS advise the Amrit Dharies that, inter alia, they will not eat meat. In Sikh Gur Maryada (Book of Sikh Ethics) it is nowhere mentioned MEAT is taboo. In Guru Arjan Sahib's Langar meat was served. It was only dispensed with at the request of Pandit scholars from Varanasi who were on deputation to study Sikhism closely. Since they were taking their meals from the Guru Ka Lnagar they had requested Guru Ji to not serve meat in the Langar as they were Vegetarians. The Guru accepted their request and stopped preparing meat and serving in the Langar.
    Guru Gobind Singh Ji used to go on hunting in the Jungles near Paonta Sahib and, surely he hunted deers and such animals and used for food for himself and his Sikhs.
     
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  3. bscheema

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    Re: Is meat eating by Sikhs is acceptable in Sikhism or not.

    if your are starving for it go and eat ....its good to eat a balance diet .why to make excuses
     
  4. justosh

    justosh
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    Re: Is meat eating by Sikhs is acceptable in Sikhism or not.

    i never knew guru arjan devi ji langer served meat, i really doubt that..... since langer is for everyone meat would not be served...

    it is quite possible that people have developed a certain "need" for meat.... the reason panj payras say not to, is because guru advises in Asa di var, "the gurmukhs will live on a simple diet of grain and water".......

    Now why did he say that.... so that we do not become a slave of the tongue and taste.... ever said... i fancy English food not Punjabi.....

    that there is being a slave to taste..... so guru advise a simple diet so that gurmukhs become slaves of Waheguru not the tongue, becasue that is just a distraction.... and falls under the umbrella of Maya.... and you could say attachment.....

    thats one of may reasons i think they say that
     
  5. Rory

    Rory
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    Re: Is meat eating by Sikhs is acceptable in Sikhism or not.

    Hmm.
     
  6. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Re: Is meat eating by Sikhs is acceptable in Sikhism or not.

    1. GURMATT has NO RULES on DIET similar to the Abrahamic Religions just as it has NO RULES for such as Fasting, starvation, Poverty, Pilgrimages, etc etc etc. The ONE and ONLY RULE that GURMATT has declares" Eat that which DOES NOT HARM THE BODY in ANY way or causes you DISCOMFORT, and rise of UNDESIRABLE DESIRES which then lead you astray...away form the Righteous Path of DHARMA. This UNIVERSAL RULE...covers..Consumption....FOOD....CLOTHES...GOLD...JEWELERY...COSMETICS..MEDICINES..DWELLINGS..
    Games...etc and also things and activities that may not have existed during Guru Jis Time such as video games, video parlous, Internet etc etc....SO ITS a UNIVERSAL RULE OF MODERATION and COMMON SENSE..not RIGIDITY imposed by some God/Powerful being, or an attempt to PLEASE GOD or based on FAITH etc etc..

    2. TASTE is an acquired individual thing. To DRAG THIS INTO each and every post about "MEAT" is abhorring and underhand method which so called anti-meat advocates love to use to make the meat eaters feel "guilty" ( Or so they THINK !! ha ha) These have never mentioned that ALCOHOL is also DRUNK for its "TASTE" ?? why NOT ?/ Pepsi coke, all Nimbu Pannee, coconut water, apple juice, orange juice..WHICH FOOD or DRINK is taken REGARDLESS of its TASTE ?? Why arent there Hawkers selling Castor OIL ...or Omega Three OIL in Glasses by the way side ?? or KARELA JUICE..why are all these ESSENTIAL FOODS packaged in small PILLS ...because they all feel BITTER and not at all pleasing but have to be consumed as DISGUISED substances...so here its the "TASTE" that comes IN !!
    Why are certian VEGETARIAN Foods so well and highly regarded..Amrtisaree maha dee daal, amritsaree Varriahn (flour ***** mixed with condiments etc which are then used in curries), etc etc WORLD FAMOUS..just as Karrahi chicken, Tikka Chicken etc..?? Its the TASTE and Taste is UNIVERSAL...not confined to nay one or several things. Some people hate the taste of MILK...CHINESE NEVER make nay MILK CAKES - barfee, khoya, etc although they have cows and buffaloes too..whereas in INDIA there is no way there is no barfee or Khoya, or MILK Cakes ?? Gulab jamuns, Ladoos, jalebis..all have enormous amounts of SUGAR..another SUBSTANCE hwich BILLIONS CONSUME..and BILLIONS SUFFER HORRENDOUS CONSEQUENCES form this consumption..diabetes, amputations, glaucoma blindness etc etc BUT SUGAR and its TASTE is something that cannot be removed form our Daily LIVES !!! WE EVEN INVENTED " DRUGS: like saccharin that TASTE LIKE SUGAR !! Here also I havent heard any RELIGIOUS persons, etc rave on about TASTE ??? why ?? BUT GURU NANAK JI sahib DID WARN US 500 years ago about THIS SUGAR !!!...and YET Karrah parshaad distributed in GURDWARAS is also ONE THIRD SUGAR !! and its eaten with GUSTO because of the SUGAR inside...OUR PAHUL is HALF SUGAR...our AMRIT is SUGAR...SIKHS at LEAST should STOP being HYPOCRITES and mentioning about "TASTE" !!!

    3. FOOLS will always keep on dragging in this meat vs grass thingy...as Guru Ji rightly observed 500 years ago...
     
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  7. Archived_Member16

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    Re: Is meat eating by Sikhs is acceptable in Sikhism or not.

    Personally I DO NOT believe that meat was served in Guru Arjan Dev Ji langar!, regardless what any one says!

    The Sikh Reht Maryada states:

    Chapert XIII - Sub Section (p): The undermentioned four transgressions (tabooed practices) must be avoided
    1. Dishonouring the hair;
    2. Eating the meat of an animal slaughtered the Muslim way;
    3. Cohabiting with a person other than one's spouse;
    4. Using tobacco

    source: http://www.sgpc.net/rehat_maryada/section_six.html

    So from where do the Panj Piaras get "their authority" to state Amrit Dharies will not eat meat? Unless of course the Amrit Sanchar is being done at some so called BABA'S DERA !

    Does Gurbani Prohibit Eating Meat?

    Different people have different views on whether consumption of meat by a Sikh is allowed. Some feel it is prohibited while others feel there is no prohibition. Let us make an effort to understand what Gurbani says. Those who think meat is not to be taken by a Sikh quote the following:

    ਜਉ ਸਭ ਮਹਿ ਏਕੁ ਖੁਦਾਇ ਕਹਤ ਹਉ ਤਉ ਕਿਉ ਮੁਰਗੀ ਮਾਰੈ ॥੧॥ ਕ ੧੩੫੦

    When the One God resides in all why do you kill the birds (Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, p 1350)?

    The immediate reaction on reading the hymn will be that Bhagat Kabir Ji is dissuading people from eating meat. Firstly there is only mention of killing and not eating; Secondly he mentions God being present in all including the bird being killed so there must be a context to this Shabad. The context is clear when we read further:

    ਪਕਰਿ ਜੀਉ ਆਨਿਆ ਦੇਹ ਬਿਨਾਸੀ ਮਾਟੀ ਕਉ ਬਿਸਮਿਲਿ ਕੀਆ ॥ ਜੋਤਿ ਸਰੂਪ ਅਨਾਹਤ ਲਾਗੀ ਕਹੁ ਹਲਾਲੁ ਕਿਆ ਕੀਆ ॥੨॥
    You catch the living creature and kill the body as sacrifice to God; But God’s light in the creature is indestructible; so what do you sacrifice?

    It is therefore clear that the context is sacrifice of creature to propitiate God or any other deity. Hence Kabir Ji is dissuading people from sacrifices. Bhagat Kabir also says in a Slok (Couplet):

    ਕਬੀਰ ਭਾਂਗ ਮਾਛੁਲੀ ਸੁਰਾ ਪਾਨਿ ਜੋ ਜੋ ਪ੍ਰਾਨੀ ਖਾਂਹਿ ॥ ਤੀਰਥ ਬਰਤ ਨੇਮ ਕੀਏ ਤੇ ਸਭੈ ਰਸਾਤਲਿ ਜਾਂਹਿ ॥੨੩੩॥

    Whosoever takes Marijuana, fish and alcoholic drinks; all his pilgrimages, fasts and performance of religious practices shall go waste (Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, p 1377).

    Here Kabir Ji is dissuading people from taking intoxicants and non-vegetarian food.

    This is a stand alone Slok and its context needs to be found from what Kabir Ji says elsewhere. He says:

    ਸੁਆਦ ਲੁਭਤ ਇੰਦ੍ਰੀ ਰਸ ਪ੍ਰੇਰਿਓ ਮਦ ਰਸ ਲੈਤ ਬਿਕਾਰਿਓ ਰੇ ॥ ਕਰਮ ਭਾਗ ਸੰਤਨ ਸੰਗਾਨੇ ਕਾਸਟ ਲੋਹ ਉਧਾਰਿਓ ਰੇ ॥੩॥

    Under the influence of taste and pleasures of sensory organs, one indulges in intoxicants and tasty food that take one to vices (Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, p 335).

    It is well known that indulgence in fish etc and intoxicants leads to vices like violence and lust satisfaction outside marriage or even overindulgence with the spouse. If we read this with the above Slok it appears that Kabir ji is asking people to understand that indulgence like this will negate all your religious practices.

    Further we find that in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji there are specific instructions to avoid intoxicants. The third Guru says:

    ਮਾਣਸੁ ਭਰਿਆ ਆਣਿਆ ਮਾਣਸੁ ਭਰਿਆ ਆਇ ॥ ਜਿਤੁ ਪੀਤੈ ਮਤਿ ਦੂਰਿ ਹੋਇ ਬਰਲੁ ਪਵੈ ਵਿਚਿ ਆਇ ॥ ਆਪਣਾ ਪਰਾਇਆ ਨ ਪਛਾਣਈ ਖਸਮਹੁ ਧਕੇ ਖਾਇ ॥ ਜਿਤੁ ਪੀਤੈ ਖਸਮੁ ਵਿਸਰੈ ਦਰਗਹ ਮਿਲੈ ਸਜਾਇ ॥ ਝੂਠਾ ਮਦੁ ਮੂਲਿ ਨ ਪੀਚਈ ਜੇ ਕਾ ਪਾਰਿ ਵਸਾਇ ॥

    One person (like the bartender) brings the intoxicant, another takes a cup from it; by drinking it he loses his power to think and acts as if mad; he is unable to distinguish the good from bad and is pushed away from the Master; by drinking it the Master is forgotten and one is punished in His court, Do not take such a drink if it is within your power. (Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, p 554).

    There is therefore specific injunction against intoxicants, but it is not so for non-vegetarian food. For example Guru Nanak says:

    ਅਭਾਖਿਆ ਕਾ ਕੁਠਾ ਬਕਰਾ ਖਾਣਾ ॥ ਚਉਕੇ ਉਪਰਿ ਕਿਸੈ ਨ ਜਾਣਾ ॥

    You eat the meat of the goat killed the Muslim way but talk of piety (Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, p 472).

    Guru Sahib is pointing out the hypocrisy of the Hindu. If he wanted to prohibit non-vegetarian food, he could have just said meat or goat and not meat dressed the Muslim way, which is also an edict in the Sikh Reht Maryada. Such meat is taboo for the Sikh.

    There is thus no injunction against eating meat but also no advice to eat it. According to Guru Nanak:

    ਮਾਸੁ ਮਾਸੁ ਕਰਿ ਮੂਰਖੁ ਝਗੜੇ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਨਹੀ ਜਾਣੈ ॥

    The ignorant persons, instead of acquiring knowledge or meditate, fight whether to eat meat or not (Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, p 1289).

    In other words the Guru asks the Sikhs not to make it an issue. It is to be kept in mind that we are not to take food or drink:

    ਜਿਤੁ ਖਾਧੈ ਤਨੁ ਪੀੜੀਐ ਮਨ ਮਹਿ ਚਲਹਿ ਵਿਕਾਰ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

    That is harmful for the body and causes vicious thoughts, Pause, (Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, p 16).

    source: http://www.sadhsangat.com/8/
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Misconceptions About Eating Meat
    by Sandeep Singh Brar

    The view of Sikhism is that eating meat or abstaining from it is the individuals choice. A Sikh is considered no lesser or greater a Sikh if they eat meat or are a vegetarian.


    Final Ruling from Akal Takht

    The Akal Takht represents the final authority on controversial issues concerning the Sikh Panth, in this regard the issue of meat eating has been settled. Hukamnama issued by Akal Takht Jathedar Sandhu Singh Bhaura dated February 15th 1980 that Amritdhari Sikhs can eat meat as long as it is jhatka meat and that eating meat does not go against the code of conduct, Kurehit, of the Sikhs. Thus a Sikh cannot be excommunicated for eating meat.

    The Sikh Reht Maryada (The Official Code of Conduct) An Amritdhari Khalsa Sikh is not allowed to eat the meat of an animal slaughtered the Muslim way.

    In Punjabi the word "Kuttha" specifically means meat prepared according to the Muslim ritual slaughter.

    Punjabi-English Dictionary, Punjabi University, Dept. of Punjabi Lexicography, Published Dec. 1994. "Kuttha: meat of animal or fowl slaughtered slowly as prescribed by Islamic law."

    Punjabi English Dictionary, Singh Bros., Amritsar "Kuttha: Tortured, killed according to Mohammedan law."

    What is Jhatka Meat and Why? Jhatka meat is meat in which the animal has been killed quickly without suffering or religious ritual.

    Sikhism, A Complete Introduction, Dr. H.S.Singha & Satwant Kaur, Hemkunt Press

    We must give the rationale behind prescribing jhatka meat as the approved food for the Sikhs. According to the ancient Aryan Hindu tradition, only such meat as is obtained from an animal which is killed with one stroke of the weapon causing instantaneous death is fit for human consumption. However, with the coming of Islam into India and the Muslim political hegemony, it became a state policy not to permit slaughter of animals for food, in any other manner, except as laid down in the Quran - the kosher meat prepared by slowly severing the main blood artery of the throat of the animal while reciting verses from the Quran. It is done to make slaughter a sacrifice to God and to expiate the sins of the slaughter. Guru Gobind Singh took a rather serious view of this aspect of the whole matter. He, therefore, while permitting flesh to be taken as food repudiated the whole theory of this expiatory sacrifice and the right of ruling Muslims to impose iton the non-Muslims. Accordingly, he made jhatka meat obligatory for those Sikhs who may be interested in taking meat as a part of their food.

    Sikhs and Sikhism, Dr. I.J.Singh, Manohar Publishers.

    And one semitic practice clearly rejected in the Sikh code of conduct is eating flesh of an animal cooked in ritualistic manner; this would mean kosher and halal meat. The reason again does not lie in religious tenet but in the view that killing an animal with a prayer is not going to enoble the flesh. No ritual, whoever conducts it, is going to do any good either to the animal or to the diner. Let man do what he must to assuage his hunger. If what he gets, he puts to good use and shares with the needy, then it is well used and well spent, otherwise not.

    Why is Meat not served in Langar?

    The reason why meat is not served at langar in the Gurdwaras is because langar is supposed to be a symbol of equality of mankind where all people no matter what race, religion or caste can eat toghether in the atmosphere of brotherhood. Hindu, Sikh, Muslim, it does not matter who they are. Different religions have different dietary restrictions. Hindus cannot eat cow, muslims cannot eat pork and will only eat halal meat. Jews will only eat kosher meat, others cannot eat fish or eggs. But in a gurdwara langar, it does not matter what their dietary taboos or religious beliefs are, the food is designed so that all can eat together and no one will be offended or not be able to partake of the meal.

    source: http://www.sikhs.org/meat.htm
     
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  8. palaingtha

    palaingtha India
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    Re: Is meat eating by Sikhs is acceptable in Sikhism or not.

    Mr Pscheema,
    It is very rude of you to comment upon in the words you are using. Be polite next time and fgive only your point of view.
     
  9. bscheema

    bscheema
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    Re: Is meat eating by Sikhs is acceptable in Sikhism or not.

    i am sorry if you find it rude ...actualy i am not good in english and find it hard to use respectfully .
     
  10. palaingtha

    palaingtha India
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    Re: Is meat eating by Sikhs is acceptable in Sikhism or not.

    Reply:
    My aim of discussing the subject of meat is:-
    1. In Rahat Maryada it is required of a Sikh he will not eat KUTHA MEAT. This sinifies that Meat is NOT taboo. But Brahamnic minded Sikhs say Sikhism forbids eating of meat.
    2. Once I asked a group of preachers who were running VIAKHIA SESSION (giving the meaning and essence of ASA JI DI WAR. I asked them about meat eating by Sikhs. They avoided discussion on the ground that there are Sikhs who do not eat meat and those who does. Therefore they were not discussing the point. I told them what is prescribed by Sikhism. Certainly there could not be two versions. They had no reply. This is the condition of our preachers. They fear that a section of the Sikhs will be angry if they gave away the true version as per the ethics of Sikhism.
    Guru Sahib has said that the people who do not eat meat denigrate others who eat meat. And continued saying that these fools do not know they are made of flesh, they marry and bring home flesh............ and the Pandit thinks he is very clever.
    Certainly who avoid meat eating on the ground of religion are no Sikh but Hindus in the garb of Sikh.
    4. In Burma there was a member of Kanagata Maru who was dropped in Rangoon from the Ship by the Britishers. He was learned man and a Sikh at that.On the question of meat he simply wants the people who say Sikhism do not allow meat eating answer his question, " when Guru Gobind Singh Ji went on hunting expeditions in the jungles near Paonta Sahib, whom did he shoot with his arrows or guns....the leaves of some trees?
     
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  11. palaingtha

    palaingtha India
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    Re: Is meat eating by Sikhs is acceptable in Sikhism or not.

    Reply:-
    The Punj Piaras are asking the Sikhs at the time of Amrit Sanchar not to eat meat is contrary to Gur Maryada as per " Sikh Rehat Maryada".
    If you have not read meat being served in Guru Ka Langar read this in one of the issues if "Sikh Phulwari".
     
  12. justosh

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    Re: Is meat eating by Sikhs is acceptable in Sikhism or not.

    Humm, well I suppose that's up to you, how you feel comfortable practising Sikhi, by no means did I try to make you feel bad, forgive me for that.

    But as guru said Waheguru is inside you, ask Waheguru and you will get your own answer.

    :)
     
  13. BaljinderS

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    Re: Is meat eating by Sikhs is acceptable in Sikhism or not.

    This is funny... the meat argument again and again..

    The people making the argument will do what ever they want regardless of what gurbani says. Everybody wants to be right and seen to be a saint.
     
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  14. SaintSoldier1699

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    Re: Is meat eating by Sikhs is acceptable in Sikhism or not.

    Rather than pointing fingers isn't it better to do as you please and don't condemn others for their choices which is within the Maryada. Problem is the ego "I am right" everyone must conform to me, Sikhi isn't that rigid to produce a bunch of clones, we are all different yet with the same underlying principles.

    No wonder we haven't achieved as much as we should have as a panth because the same insignificant issues are brought up time and time again.

    Always look at the bigger picture.
     
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  15. BaljinderS

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    Re: Is meat eating by Sikhs is acceptable in Sikhism or not.

    I have found that it always the vegetarians making this argument. I do not see many meat eaters saying its compulsory to eat meat. As veer Ji said we should be looking at the bigger picture.

    This vegetarian philosophy has been preached so much that it has taken us away from looking at the bigger picture. People just have blind faith and they do not look beyond that. Most people just conform this ideology and do not really want to understand the underlying truth.
     
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  16. Luckysingh

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    Re: Is meat eating by Sikhs is acceptable in Sikhism or not.

    icecreammundaYou should all just chill out and have a huge Hot Dog with onions and mustardicecreammunda
     
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  17. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    Re: Is meat eating by Sikhs is acceptable in Sikhism or not.

    Maiji, a munda eating a hot dog would be a useful smilie during such debates lol lol lol
     
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  18. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Re: Is meat eating by Sikhs is acceptable in Sikhism or not.

    and by the way..the PANJ standing behind Waddeh baba JI Ghagreewallah..( he once referred to them as eh BICHAREH PANJ....) are certainly NOT the REAL PANJ...simialrly there are PANJ and there are PANJ....One Panj will tell you something..another Panj can sya the direct opposite....so in actual FACT...One can CHOOSE the PANJ that one agrees with...a Solid Vegetarian type..can choose the AKJ Panj..the Taksal Panj..the Ghagreewallah Panj...then he/she will hear exactly what he wants to hear..that is AVOID MEAT like the Devils cauldron...IF a person is NOT that crazy about Grass..he can approach the SGPC Maryada PANJ..they will tell you ONLY AVOID KUTTHA...IF one hates meat, and alcohol and eggs etc..he can go to the NAMDHAREE or Nanaksaree Panj..they will BAN all those...

    FOLLOW YOUR HEART and SGGS....avoid all jathebandees,,dharras..groups..sants..deras..satgurus...waddeha nd chooteh abbajis..etc etc...hold ON to ONLY SGGS...:whatzpointsing:
     
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  19. Randip Singh

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    Re: Is meat eating by Sikhs is acceptable in Sikhism or not.

    We have a huge article on this.

    http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/8828-fools-who-wrangle-over-flesh.html

    Panj Piaray should not be saying do not eat meat, they should be quoting as per SRM "KUttha Nahi Khana", i.e. no Kuttha meat. Living life on a diet of grain and water is nonsense. We are not Sadhu's and ascetic but SIKHs who live in the REAL world. I am aware that some cults and sects in Sikhism like GNNSJ and AKJ say this.

    Meat was served in langar up until the second Guru, but Vaishnav's objected to it, so it was removed from langar. You must remember Langar was made up of donations from people of whatever they had. So a farmer may bring wheat, a cow herder milk, a butcher meat etc etc.

    http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/questions-and-answers/36025-serving-meat-langar-guru-angad-sahib.html
     
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  20. BaljinderS

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    Re: Is meat eating by Sikhs is acceptable in Sikhism or not.

    Perfectly said veer ji.. I agree 100%!.. There is a lot of money that goes to these pakhandies.. if were to not accept any baabe then we would not have so much confusion and misconceptions.. the extra money could go to actually teaching people how to read gurbani and understand it for themselves..
     
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    #19 BaljinderS, Sep 11, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2012
  21. palaingtha

    palaingtha India
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    Re: Is meat eating by Sikhs is acceptable in Sikhism or not.

    Reply:-

    You should read a booklet of Gur Maryada in which it is mentioned a Sikh taking Amriit-pan will never eat Kutha Maas. That confirms a Sikh may eat meat if it is not slaughtered the way Muslims do. It means Sikhs may eat Jhatka whenever they feel like eating meat.
     
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