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Hair/ਬਾਲ

Discussion in 'Spiritual Articles' started by vsgrewal48895, Mar 22, 2009.

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  1. vsgrewal48895

    vsgrewal48895
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    HAIR/ਬਾਲ

    ABSTRACT

    Hair has been considered to be a sign of spirituality. Is it a myth or reality? Its pros & cons will be discussed here with references from AGGS. It is commonly acknowledged that prophets like Moses, Jesus, and Sikh Gurus had long hair. Was it a coincidence or a significant fact will also be deliberated here? There is no intention to step on any toes or to be disrespectful to any one’s feelings but to have an academic dialogue. No bias for or against hair should be implied. Naturally, if one keeps long hair it is to be expected that he would keep them under control for hygienic reasons for his own benefit and for that of the others. Bhagat Ravidas considers it to be a part of body to be left here in ashes just like body and all 5 k’s after death. Guru Nanak advised the Brahmin in Raag Asa about his sacred thread which will be burnt and left here but the thread made up of compassion, contentment and truth is string enough to go along with you after death. We have already debated it under the post named KHAYP/ਖੇਪ. Ravidas in Raag Sorath ponders on the subject;

    ਬੰਕੇ ਬਾਲ ਪਾਗ ਸਿਰਿ ਡੇਰੀ ॥ ਇਹੁ ਤਨੁ ਹੋਇਗੋ ਭਸਮ ਕੀ ਢੇਰੀ ॥

    Bankė bāl pāg sir dėrī. ih ṯan ho¬igo bẖasam kī dẖėrī.

    You make your hair beautiful, and wear a stylish turban on your head. But in the end, all this and body shall be reduced to a pile of ashes.
    -----Ravidas, Raag Sorath, AGGS, Page, 659-5 & 6
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Akal Purkh and Naam are two important tenets of Guru Nanak’s Philosophy and both are formless (ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰੁ);

    ਬਰਨੁ ਚਿਹਨੁ ਨਾਹੀ ਮੁਖੁ ਨ ਮਾਸਾਰਾ ॥

    Baran cẖihan nāhī mukẖ na māsārā.

    Akal Purkh has no color, no sign, no mouth and no beard
    -----Guru Arjan, Raag Suhi, AGGS, Page, 746-10

    ਨਾਉ ਤੇਰਾ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰੁ ਹੈ ਨਾਇ ਲਇਐ ਨਰਕਿ ਨ ਜਾਈਐ ॥

    Nā­o ṯėrā nirankār hai nā­ė la­i­ai narak na jā­ī­ai.

    Your Name is Formless; chanting Your Name, one does not to go to hell.
    -----Guru Nanak, Raag Asa, AGGS, Page, 465-15


    Sikhism demands internal piety for spiritual growth, if the inside is filthy active effort is needed to cleanse it out as per the teachings embodied in the Sabad Guru (AGGS). God’s grace is bestowed on those who follow these teachings (ਦੀਖਿਆ) honestly. Their actions must reflect the true spirit of Gurbani. This promotes control of mind through Its Grace. Lower instincts are subjugated under such control. As one meditates and engages in selfless service, higher virtues and instincts are developed.

    People often wonder if physical religious form or dress or outward symbols such as hair etc. play any role in spiritual growth or salvation. Guru Nanak describes in Raag Maru the omnipresence, with matted hairs and formless Akal Purkh;

    ਆਪੇ ਸੁਰਗੁ ਮਛੁ ਪਇਆਲਾ ॥ਆਪੇ ਜੋਤਿ ਸਰੂਪੀ ਬਾਲਾ ॥ਜਟਾ ਬਿਕਟ ਬਿਕਰਾਲ ਸਰੂਪੀ ਰੂਪੁ ਨ ਰੇਖਿਆ ਕਾਈ ਹੇ ॥

    Āpe surag macẖẖ pa▫i▫ālā. Āpe joṯ sarūpī bālā. Jataa Bikat Bikraal Saroopee Roop Na Raykh-i-aa Kaa-ee Hay.

    You Your self are the heavenly realms, this world and the nether regions of the underworld. You Your self are the embodiment of light, forever young. With matted hair, and a horrible, dreadful form, still, You have no form or feature. -----Guru Nanak, Raag Maru, AGGS, Page, 1021-16

    He says a yogi with mated hair also has lost his way on spiritual path;

    ਜੋਗੀ ਗਿਰਹੀ ਜਟਾ ਬਿਭੂਤ ॥ਆਗੈ ਪਾਛੈ ਰੋਵਹਿ ਪੂਤ ॥ਜੋਗੁ ਨ ਪਾਇਆ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਗਵਾਈ ॥

    Jogi Girhee Jataa Bibhoot, Aagai Paachai Roveh Poot, Jog Na Paa-e-aa Jugat Gavaa-ee.

    A yogi, with matted hair and ashes on his body, may become a householder with his children crying and wailing all around, still he does not attain Yog. He has just lost his way. -----Guru Nanak, Raag Ramkali, AGGS, Page, 951-16

    Gurus Nanak, Arjan, and Kabir ponder on long matted hair;

    ਇਕਿ ਭਸਮ ਚੜ੍ਹ੍ਹਾਵਹਿ ਅੰਗਿ ਮੈਲੁ ਨ ਧੋਵਹੀ ॥ ਇਕਿ ਜਟਾ ਬਿਕਟ ਬਿਕਰਾਲ ਕੁਲੁ ਘਰੁ ਖੋਵਹੀ ॥

    Ik bẖasam cẖaṛĥāvahi ang mail na ḏẖovhī. Ik Jataa Bikat Bikraal Kul Ghar Khovhee.

    Some rub ashes on their bodies, and never wash off their dirt. Some look hideous, with their uncut, matted and disheveled hair. They bring dishonor to their family and ancestry. -----Guru Nanak, Raag Malar, AGGS, Page, 1284-19

    ਕੋਟਿ ਬਿਸਨ ਅਵਤਾਰ ਸੰਕਰ ਜਟਾਧਾਰ ॥ ਚਾਹਹਿ ਤੁਝਹਿ ਦਇਆਰ ਮਨਿ ਤਨਿ ਰੁਚ ਅਪਾਰ ॥

    Kot Bisan Avtaar Sankar Jataa Dhaar, Chaaheh Tujeh Diaar Man Tan Rouch Aapaar.

    Millions of incarnations of Vishnu and Shiva, with matted hair yearn for You, O Merciful Akal Purkh. Their minds and bodies are filled with infinite longing.
    -----Guru Arjan Dev, Raag Asa, AGGS, Page, 455-16 & 17

    ਬਨ ਮਹਿ ਪੇਖਿਓ ਤ੍ਰਿਣ ਮਹਿ ਪੇਖਿਓ ਗ੍ਰਿਹਿ ਪੇਖਿਓ ਉਦਾਸਾਏ ॥ਦੰਡਧਾਰ ਜਟਧਾਰੈ ਪੇਖਿਓ ਵਰਤ ਨੇਮ ਤੀਰਥਾਏ ॥

    Ban Meh Paykhio Trin Meh Paykhio Greh Paykhio Oudaasaa-ay, Dand Dhaar Jat Dhaarai Paykhi-o Varat Naym Teerthaa-ay.

    Akal Purkh has been perceived pervading in the jungles, in green pastures, among the house holders, and the mendicants equally. I have seen It as a Yogi carrying Its staff, with matted hair, fasting, making vows, and visiting sacred shrines of pilgrimage. -----Guru Arjan Dev, Raag Bhario, AGGS, Page, 1139-3

    ਕਬੀਰ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਇਕ ਸਿਉ ਕੀਏ ਆਨ ਦੁਬਿਧਾ ਜਾਇ ॥ ਭਾਵੈ ਲਾਂਬੇ ਕੇਸ ਕਰੁ ਭਾਵੈ ਘਰਰਿ ਮੁਡਾਇ ॥

    Kabir Preet Ik Seo Kee-ay Aan Dubhdha Jaa-ey, Bhavai Laanbay Kays Kar Bhavai Gharar Mudhaa-ey.

    Kabir, when you are in love with the One Akal Purkh, duality and alienation depart. It is immaterial whether you have long hair, or a bald head.
    -----Kabir Sloke 25, AGGS, Page, 1365-15

    Individuals, Hindu gods, jogies, Jains etc. have tried to find God with matted hairs and other physical apparel of all kinds but they all died without attaining success.

    ਜੋਗੀ ਜਤੀ ਤਪੀ ਸੰਨਿਆਸੀ ਬਹੁ ਤੀਰਥ ਭ੍ਰਮਨਾ ॥ਲੁੰਜਿਤ ਮੁੰਜਿਤ ਮੋਨਿ ਜਟਾਧਰ ਅੰਤਿ ਤਊ ਮਰਨਾ ॥

    Jogi Jati Tapi Saniaa-see Boh Tirath Bharmanaa, Lunjit Munjit Mon Jataa Dhaar Unt Taou Marnaa.

    The yogis, celibates, penitents and sannyaasees may make pilgrimages to all the sacred places. The Jains with shaven heads, the silent ones, and the beggars with matted hair may do the same. In the end, they all shall die without success. -----Devotee Kabir, Raag Asa, AGGS, Page, 476-18

    ਕਬਿਤ ਪੜੇ ਪੜਿ ਕਬਿਤਾ ਮੂਏ ਕਪੜ ਕੇਦਾਰੈ ਜਾਈ ॥ ਜਟਾ ਧਾਰਿ ਧਾਰਿ ਜੋਗੀ ਮੂਏ ਤੇਰੀ ਗਤਿ ਇਨਹਿ ਨ ਪਾਈ ॥

    Kabit Parhay Parh Kabitaa Moo-ay Kaparh Kaydaarai Jaa-ee, Jataa Dhaar Dhaar Jogi Moo-ay Tayree Gat Ineh Na Paa-ee.

    Reciting their poems, the poets die; the mystical ascetics die while journeying to Kaydaar Naat'h. The Yogis die, with their matted hair with out attaining your Grace.
    -----Kabir, Raag Sorath, AGGS, Page, 654-6 & 7

    ਕਬਿ ਜਨ ਜੋਗੀ ਜਟਾਧਾਰਿ ॥ ਸਭ ਆਪਨ ਅਉਸਰ ਚਲੇ ਸਾਰਿ ॥

    Kab Jan Jogi Jataa Dhaar, Sabh Aapan Aousar Chalay Saar.

    The poets and the yogis with matted hair have all gone away having spent their life spans in the world. -----Devotee Kabir, Raag Basant, AGGS, Page, 1194-16

    There is absolutely no spirituality in hairs, rituals, and other material things as is evident from the following hymns of Kabir.

    ਮੈਲੇ ਜੋਗੀ ਜੰਗਮ ਜਟਾ ਸਹੇਤਿ ॥ ਮੈਲੀ ਕਾਇਆ ਹੰਸ ਸਮੇਤਿ ॥

    Mailay Jogi Jangam Jataa Sahayt, Mailee Kaaiyaa Hans Samayt.

    The yogis and wandering hermits with their matted hair are polluted. Their bodies and their souls are also polluted. -----Kabir, Raag Bhairo, AGGS, Page, 1158-7

    Only the spiritually ignorant may associate any spiritual merit in hairs or dress etc. Ignorance is a lack of knowledge, or a willful lack of desire to improve the efficiency, merit, effectiveness or usefulness of one's actions. Ignorance is also a "state of being ignorant" or unaware or uninformed.

    Spiritual ignorance is a very serious matter. It is said that "What you don't know won't hurt you". We all know that is incorrect and yet it seems that many people have adopted that philosophy toward spiritual matters. "Many people are destroyed for lack of spiritual knowledge". Lack of knowledge is often accompanied by self-destructive turning away from truth in all areas of life. To be ignorant of one's ignorance turns out to be a major malady of the ignorant.

    ਅਸੰਖ ਮੂਰਖ ਅੰਧ ਘੋਰ ॥ ਅਸੰਖ ਚੋਰ ਹਰਾਮਖੋਰ ॥

    Asankh Moorkh Andh Ghor. Asaʼnkẖ cẖor harāmkẖor.

    Countless fools are blinded by ignorance, and countless are thieves and embezzlers. ----japji, AGGS, Page, 4

    The spiritual ignorance referred here is not just the lack of information but a deep seated misperception of reality. It is altogether a mistake to let ignorance dictate the policy of the truth at any time. It is more so in an age when the truth has to contend with almost insurmountable difficulties. Still, ignorance is preferable to error. One who is less remote from the truth and believes nothing is better off than the one who believes what is wrong.

    ਅਗਿਆਨੀ ਮਾਨੁਖੁ ਭਇਆ ਜੋ ਨਾਹੀ ਸੋ ਲੋਰੈ ॥ ਰੈਣਿ ਅੰਧਾਰੀ ਕਾਰੀਆ ਕਵਨ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਜਿਤੁ ਭੋਰੈ ॥ਭ੍ਰਮਤੋ ਭ੍ਰਮਤੋ ਹਾਰਿਆ ਅਨਿਕ ਬਿਧੀ ਕਰਿ ਟੋਰੈ ॥ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਭਈ ਸਾਧਸੰਗਤਿ ਨਿਧਿ ਮੋਰੈ ॥

    Agiani Manukh Bhaiaa Jo Nahin So Lorai, Rain AnDhaaree Kaaree-aa Kavan Jugat Jit Bhorai, Bharmato Bharmato Haari-aa Anik BiDhee Kar Torai, Kaho Nanak Kirpaa Bha-ee SaaDhsangat NiDh Morai.

    Humanity is in spiritual ignorance. People see things that do not exist. If the night is dark and gloomy; how will the morning dawn be? Wandering, wandering all around, I have grown weary; trying all sorts of things in my search. Says Nanak, Akal Purkh has shown mercy to me; I have found my treasure in the Company of the Holy.-----Guru Arjan, AGGS, Page 212-11

    Maya separates a human being from God, the Creator! What makes us believe half truth as the only Truth? The limited intellectual knowledge gained through five senses prompts us in believing this World to be the only Truth. We have to penetrate the veil of Maya or ignorance inherent in every being.

    ਮਾਇਆ ਮੋਹੁ ਗੁਬਾਰੁ ਹੈ ਤਿਸ ਦਾ ਨ ਦਿਸੈ ਉਰਵਾਰੁ ਨ ਪਾਰੁ ॥ ਮਨਮੁਖ ਅਗਿਆਨੀ ਮਹਾ ਦੁਖੁ ਪਾਇਦੇ ਡੁਬੇ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਵਿਸਾਰਿ ॥
    Maya Moh Gubaar Hai Tis Da Na Disai Ourvaar Na Paar, Manmukh Agianee Maha Dukh Paaeeday Dubay Har Naam Visaar.

    The love of Maya has created darkness with out any shores. The self willed persons are lost in useless pursuits forgetting Akal Purkh’s Name and are unsuccessful in crossing the worldly ocean. -----Guru Amardas, Siri Raag Var, AGGS, Page, 89

    ਬਸਇ ਕਰੋਧੁ ਸਰੀਰਿ ਚੰਡਾਰਾ ॥ ਅਗਿਆਨਿ ਨ ਸੂਝੈ ਮਹਾ ਗੁਬਾਰਾ ॥

    Bas-i KaroDh Sareer Chandaaraa, Agiaan Na Soojhai Maha Gubara.

    Anger is the outcaste which hides within the body; in ignorance the person does not understand and is in utter darkness. -----Guru Arjan, AGGS, Page 759-14

    Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity. -----Martin Luther King Jr.

    Remembering Akal Purkh’s Name and doing good deeds can lead to "spiritual awakening,” and change in personality to bring a new understanding. Such a change could hardly have been brought about by the individual alone. Most of us think this awareness of a Power greater than ourselves is the essence of spiritual experience and call it "God-consciousness."

    Misapprehensions are enchanting only to the ignorant mind. Divine Knowledge alone can remove ignorance. Once the ignorance is dispelled so are all the misapprehensions. Then the mind is purified of egoism and is illumined with the spiritual wisdom. Upon attaining this state of direct Vision or apprehension of the Self, non-apprehension of Reality will not arise again. When the True Wisdom arises, the unreality vanishes. Only the One Pure, All-pervading Consciousness remains.

    ਤੂ ਅਲਖ ਅਗੋਚਰੁ ਅਗਮੁ ਹੈ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਦਿਖਾਈ ॥ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਅਗਿਆਨੁ ਦੁਖੁ ਭਰਮੁ ਹੈ ਗੁਰ ਗਿਆਨਿ ਗਵਾਈ ॥

    Ŧū alakẖ agocẖar agam hai gurmaṯ ḏikẖā▫ī. Antar Agiaan Dukh Bharam Hai Gur Gian Gavaeya.

    You are invisible, imperceptible and inaccessible. You are revealed through the Guru's Teachings. Deep within, there is ignorance, suffering and doubt; but through the spiritual wisdom of the Guru, they are eradicated. -----Guru Nanak, AGGS, Page, 1291-17

    All the humans are looking for liberation, which can only be obtained by internal cleanliness.

    ਜਪੁ ਤਪੁ ਸੰਜਮੁ ਧਰਮੁ ਨ ਕਮਾਇਆ ॥ਸੇਵਾ ਸਾਧ ਨ ਜਾਨਿਆ ਹਰਿ ਰਾਇਆ ॥ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਹਮ ਨੀਚ ਕਰੰਮਾ ॥ਸਰਣਿ ਪਰੇ ਕੀ ਰਾਖਹੁ ਸਰਮਾ ॥

    Jap Tap Sanjam Dharam Na Kamaeya, Sayva Sadh Na Jania Har Raa-eya, Kaoh Nanak Ham Neech Karanma, Saran Paray Ki Rakhoh Sarma.

    I have not practiced meditation, self-discipline, self-restraint or righteous living. I have not served the Holy; I have not acknowledged the Akal Purkh, my King. Says Nanak, my actions are contemptible! O Akal Purkh, I seek Your Sanctuary; please, preserve my honor! -----Guru Arjan, Raag Asa, AGGS, Page, 12

    ਸੋ ਜਨੁ ਮੁਕਤੁ ਜਿਸੁ ਏਕ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਗੀ ਸਦਾ ਰਹੈ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਲੇ॥ਤਿਨ ਕੀ ਗਹਣ ਗਤਿ ਕਹੀ ਨ ਜਾਈ ਸਚੈ ਆਪਿ ਸਵਾਰੇ॥

    So Jan Mukat Jis Aek Liv Laagi Sada Rahai Har Naalay, Tin Ki Gahan Gat Kahee Na Jaaee Sachai Aap Savaray.

    He alone is liberated, who lovingly focuses his attention on the One Akal Purkh. The inner state and depth of one who dwells on the It, is indescribable. This is because the True Akal Purkh It self embellishes him.
    -----Guru Amardas, Raag Bilawal, AGGS, Page, 796-19

    Conclusion:

    It should be up to an individual to keep hair or not, as he/she prefers. Others are in no position to approve or disapprove of someone else’s preference. We should not sit in judgment of the others on this. If hairs bring inner peace or progress in spirituality, so be it. It does raise few interesting questions;

    1. Can the clean shaven person grow in spirituality?
    2. Is spirituality the only domain of persons with long unshorn hair?

    It would be reasonable to assume that both can grow in spirituality irrespective of hair. The crucial element in spirituality is to follow the teachings contained in AGGS. A humble person would judge only himself rather than another says Guru Angad in Raag Majh;

    ਨਾਨਕ ਪਰਖੇ ਆਪ ਕਉ ਤਾ ਪਾਰਖੁ ਜਾਣੁ ॥ਰੋਗੁ ਦਾਰੂ ਦੋਵੈ ਬੁਝੈ ਤਾ ਵੈਦੁ ਸੁਜਾਣੁ ॥

    Nanak Parkhay Aap Kau Ta Parkh Jaan, Rog Daaroo Dovai Bujhai Taa Vaid Sujaan.

    O Nanak, if someone judges himself, only then is he known as a real judge. If someone understands both the disease and the medicine, only then is he a wise physician. -----Guru Angad, Majh Ki Var, AGGS, Page 148-8

    Kabir has pointed out in Raag Maru that what matters is the conquest of one’s mind, not his long hair:

    ਜਟਾ ਭਸਮ ਲੇਪਨ ਕੀਆ ਕਹਾ ਗੁਫਾ ਮਹਿ ਬਾਸੁ ॥ ਮਨੁ ਜੀਤੇ ਜਗੁ ਜੀਤਿਆ ਜਾਂ ਤੇ ਬਿਖਿਆ ਤੇ ਹੋਇ ਉਦਾਸੁ ॥

    Jataa Bhasam Laypan Kee-aa Khaa Gufaa Meh Baas, Man Jeetay Jag Jeetiaa Jan Tay Bikhiaa Tay Hoey Oudaas.

    What is the use of wearing matted hair, smearing the body with ashes, and living in a cave? Conquering the mind, one conquers the world, and then remains detached from corruption -----Devotee Kabir, Raag Maru, AGGS, Page, 1103-7

    It is just an academic discussion not treading on the toes who believe in it. The hairs for Sikhs does have a political and identity issue which a spiritual person has nothing to do with. I aplogise if I hurt the feelings of any one in this post.

    Virinder S. Grewal
    Williamston, MI
     
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  2. Archived_Member4

    Archived_Member4
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    I have alot to say about this post and will write when I have the time for now I got reports to write and books to read; university is too much work:inca:
     
  3. dalbirk

    dalbirk
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    I suppose this is a very clever on part of some Sikhs ( Especially some Jatts ) who have controlled all the finances of Gurudwara & political power in Punjab but they r totally averse or even radically opposed to follow the first of all REHATS ie. HAIR . JATTS r the new BRAHMINS of Sikhism , the super Gurus . A new name had been invented by these BRAHMIN SIKHS which is JATTISM . Wearing their SURNAME on their sleeves eg. Sidhu, Dhillon , Gill, Virk , Brar & of course GREWAL among host lot of other . I'm living in Punjab & I'm yet to come across a single individual affluent so-called JATT who does not add surname to his name & who keeps hair . Almost 100% of JATTS r clean shaven ie APOSTATES according to the definition of Sikh Rehat Maryada . But they want to control 100% of Gurudwara Golaks as well as Punjab politics . Which is why they fell stung when somebody remindes them of Sikh Rehat Maryada . Little knowing what their status was before the advent of Sikhism . MERE FARM LABOURERS working for money lenders & Nawabs as BONDED LABOUR or DAILY WAGERS . No wonder they r currently returning to their roots , looking at the condition of Punjabi farmers these days selling off their lands to fund their need for intoxicants , lavish spending & lazy schedule .
    I'm sorry if I sound too offensive or CASTIST because this is the last thing I wish to be blamed for .
     
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  4. dalbirk

    dalbirk
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    Regarding the hair , we need to look which of the religion has survived in India in last 3000 years except Sikhism . All the major religions like Jainism , Buddhism , Jog Mat ( Yogism ) , Bhakti Movement could not escape the Unparrallel Digestion of what is known as Brahminism , more commonly as Hinduism . The lure of Brahminism is such a vicious circle that nobody can escape it living in India . What is remaining of 150-200 years old Hindu Reform movements like Rama Krishna Mission , Brahmo Samaj & hate mongering Arya Samaj ? NOTHING !!!! Such is the Salty water of the sea of Brahminism that anybody just lowering their gaurds is absorbed immediately . I got some books of Kabir ji from Ahmedabad branch of Kabir Panthis recently. The writings of Kabir Ji r very-very different in meanings & content from what we find in SGGS . Why could not Kabir Ji & Namdev ji propagate their teachings , because they had no organised religion . Why r Kabir Panthis' following different teachings from that of SGGS ? Who polluted & diluted those teachings ? The answer is the ONE & ONLY BRAHMIN . Even today the effect of Brahminism can be found in almost 80% of Sikh houses despite all preachings . It is not for nothing that Guru Gobind Singh Ji prescribed Rehat as mandatory for every Sikh more so making HAIR as the first of 5 Kakaars , because he wished to make Khalsa unique , so that it may survive BRAHMINISM & not get merged . And by the grace of Guru , we have managed to SO FAR .
    Sikhism as such is not averse to people who r clean shaven , they r not at all stopped from coming in Gurudwaras . Remember during the days of Maharaja Ranjit Singh's rule Sikhs crossed number of 10,000,000 ( One Crore /Ten Million ) in 1851 census , reduced to 1,800,000 ( Eighteen Lacs ) In 1881 , just 30 years because people were not coming to Sikhism due to their love for it but for material gains . So when the tide turned , they immediately abandoned it . Sikhism was again revived by Singh Sabha Movement from 1874 onwards .
     
  5. BhagatSingh

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    Your post implies that it is the Rehit that makes one a Sikh. If you don't follow rehit you are considered a Brahmin or something.
    You have provided no other reasons for why "Jatts" are "Brahmins of Sikhism", which is why your post DOES come off as offensive and CASTIST to those who do not know "Jatts" as well as you do.
     
  6. japjisahib04

    japjisahib04 Kuwait
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    kbIr pRIiq iek isau kIey, Awn duibDw jwie ] BwvY lWby kys kru, BwvY Grir mufwie ]25]

    Kabir Preet Ik Seo Kee-ay Aan Dubhdha Jaa-ey, Bhavai Laanbay Kays Kar Bhavai Gharar Mudhaa-ey.

    Kabir, when you are in love with the One Akal Purkh, duality and alienation depart. It is immaterial whether you have long hair, or a bald head. Kabir Sloke 25, AGGS, Page, 1365-15
    This salok(in series of sloks) is not written in the context as is presented by Virinder Ji. Let us be very sincere with gurbani and not interpret to create confusion. In this salok Kabir ji is telling that outer bhaikh with stinking matted hair or bald head is not a means to eliminate duality as was prevalent belief.
    Let us see the other side now Guru Nanak in poetical expression glorfies the hair and the beauty of formless, ‘qyry bMky loiex dMq rIswlw ] sohxy nk ijn lµmVy vwlw ] Your eyes are so beautiful, and Your teeth are delightful. Your nose is so graceful, and Your hair is so long. While tresses are woman’s crowning glory beard and turban is a symbol of manhood. If we think our beloved will accept us or bless us with His grace or even give a chance for ultimate merger when we even don't show our self as man -Akhi daikhi makhi nahi khaedi. Making correction in His perfection who is (ABulu gurU krqwru ]), while presenting ourselves as spiritual, it is like girl is beautiful but cannot bear the child.
    Best regards
    Sahni Mohinder
     
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  7. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    ਜੋਗੀ ਗਿਰਹੀ ਜਟਾ ਬਿਭੂਤ ॥ਆਗੈ ਪਾਛੈ ਰੋਵਹਿ ਪੂਤ ॥ਜੋਗੁ ਨ ਪਾਇਆ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਗਵਾਈ ॥

    Jogi Girhee Jataa Bibhoot, Aagai Paachai Roveh Poot, Jog Na Paa-e-aa Jugat Gavaa-ee.

    A yogi, with matted hair and ashes on his body, may become a householder with his children crying and wailing all around, still he does not attain Yog. He has just lost his way. -----Guru Nanak, Raag Ramkali, AGGS, Page, 951-16

    1. Its always MATTED HAIR...and not UNCUT HAIR that is mentioned ?? When the Gurus mention Lambherreh Bala...sohne nak wala....that is NOT "matted hair".. Whats the reason ? Would the GURUS condemn "Matted Hair" and then KEEP their own hair Matted ?? or NOT ??
    GURU GOBIND SINGH specifically PROHIBITS "MATTED HAIR" for a Khalsa...it MUST be COMBED DAILY many times, Kangha is a MUST have Kakaar..and the Dastaar MUST be chun chun kar bandhee DAILY as many times as it si removed. This is ACTIVE DISCIPLINE as compared to MATTED HAIR...which requires ABSENCE OF ANY DISCIPLINE !!! Putting DIRT into hair/NEGLECT of hair/ .

    2. The Second type of "Hair" activley condemned in Gurbani is the Jain practice of REMOVAL of all hair from its ROOTS, RUBBING of ASH/etcv into the pores to KILL the HAIR FOLLICLES. BHADD karna.shaving Bald/etc.

    3. The Third point I wnat to make is that the Tuk that is almost always "subtly removed/left out/ignored"....is the TUK by Bhagat kabir Ji when he asks so pointedly...."OH WHY have thee shaved your HEAD BALD.....BUT LEFT YOUR INNER MANN full of UNSHAVED DIRT..mann mundeeah NAHIN ??.
    This again is a active CONDEMNATION of OUTWARD SHAVING to show religious piety/spiritual gain/holiness. But this TUK is often ignored becasue it happens to hit at the arguments of those who advocate.."long hair is unnecessary for Inner spiritual growth..holiness..piety..etc etc...
    in Actual Fact the SGGS actiuvely condemns ALL types of OUTWARD SYMBOLS of RELIGIOUS PIETY that were being ACTIVELY PROMOTED so commonly then..the Yogis with MATTED HAIR..SHIV Ji has Long matted Hair...the jains and other Sadhus who SHAVED BALD...and rubbed ashes to stop hair growth...others who had various other "methods" to achieve high morality/piousness status ( like passing motion and then sniffing it while inhaling its odours and stirrign it with a stick !! ( GROSS but apparently highly religious behaviours..and GURU jis didnt flinch from exposing it either !!)

    4.ALL these go hand in hand are in perfect harmony as GURBANI further ACTIVELY CONDEMNS other so called "highly spiritual pursuits" of the day....Bathing at Teeraths..giving alms to wehlarr beggars as Daan/punn....etc. etc. etc.
    My conlcusion is that ALL these are all tied up...matted hair..baldies...nangeh sadhus..bhadding..fasting..bathing at teeraths..pilgrimages..alms giving..chanting of mantras..standing on one foot..torturing bodies...austerities etc etc etc WHICH WERE AND STILL ARE POPULAR METHODS OF ATTAINING SPIRITUALITY/RELIGIOUSNESS/PIETY/HOLYNESS ETC.

    5. None of the Gurbani Tuks can be taken to reference what the KHALSA REHIT requires. Clean long flowing Hair..neatly tied up in a Dastar..combed daily with a kangha. Anytime such Beautiful hair is mentioned..Its in a very nice flowery and beautiful Language....unlike the "Matted Hair" - which a KHALSA is BANNED from Having under any circumstances.

    6. NO ONE..neither the long haired one or the Clean Shaven One..can CLAIM that he has "INNER SPIRITUALITY/HOLINESS/PIETY/Qualities that Gurbani PROMOTES.".....JUST SIMPLY because of what HIS EXTERIOR SHOWS. BOTH will have to EARN that for himself. BOTH are on EQUAL FOOTING. The GHONA is NOT more spiritual just because he has no hair on his head and doesnt wear a dastaar...and so is the Banna wearing One. REAL Spirituality shines through - IF the person is really spiritual...it will show....and this may be revealed soon enough - when the local Gurdwara elections occur...and the snagat can see who is really desperate to be pardhaan/skattar - not withstanding his outside appearance ??? To me the "better person" will be calm and poised and tension free...do sewa IF allowed by Sangat..retreat IF not wanted..and not go on a rampage about "discrimination" unfair..blah blah etc etc.

    6. In the Tuk ref above...I find it out of place to say..HE MAY become a householder..and have his children crying...." IMHO..the POOT being referred to here is THE YOGI HIMSELF...and the ones "crying" are HIS PARENTS. A person who has become a YOGI..leaves his Parents crying...their son has taken on a "usless" pursuit...and he wont be "taking care of them in their old age"..
    AND secondly this YOGI will NOT have anyone CRYING for him when he dies....as he ahs no one. Normally only the FAMILY cries for loved ones....since the yogi has no family...whos to cry for him ?? Aageh pachheh..na aggeh na pechheh... He "may" is presumption ?? Why would a YOGI then turn around an become a "householder" ?? and IF he does become a HOUSEHOLDER..then he becomes a PRODUCTIVE PERSON..earning for his family and children...why would they cry then ?? I have Personally seen PARENTS CRYING..even TODAY..when their sons leave home and turn Sants/saadhs...!!!but I havent seen a "sant" returning to "marry" and then his children crying because their father was an EX- "sant "..???.

    7. imho..sometimes we "see" too much in a mere "name"..and then make assumptions....it is generally wrong to make generalisations. Simply creates bad blood and spoils the mood...lets all not be so "quick on the draw"...and give everyone his due...let God and Guru be the Judge. My humble benti.
     
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  8. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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    Japjisahib Ji,

    I have often wondered myself what Hair has got to do with this shabad. Kindly throw some light.

    Page 98, Line 10
    ਨਿਰਹਾਰੀ ਕੇਸਵ ਨਿਰਵੈਰਾ ॥
    निरहारी केसव निरवैरा ॥
    Nirhārī kesav nirvairā.
    He does not need to eat; His Hair is Wondrous and Beautiful; He is free of hate.
    Guru Arjan Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok
     
  9. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Naamjapp ji,
    Gurfateh.

    This is exactly what I meant in my mail above. Whenever and (ALWAYS.)..whenever LONG BEAUTIFUL HAIR...wondrous hair..sohnneh, lambbreh..etc etc is mentioned the language/vocabulary used is complimentary - not condemnation as in "Matted hair".
    Not in a single tuk anywhere in the SGGS is it mentioned in an "uncomplimentary" manner the Long and beautiful hair that Guru Ji talks about this subject in terms of Akal purakh/Waheguru/. No where does Guru ji says that Akal Purakh or MY BELOVED has "matted Hair" ( which isnt beautiful by any manner of degree ??).
    What can we infer from such language ?? It doesnt need a rocket scientist to figure out where Guru Jis affection lies...HIS Beloved...."Nirvair..Nirbhau..is KESHVA..One with Long flowing beautiful hair...

    I may be "bias" as I have long beautiful flowing hair and i am forever combing it...oiling it..and chun chun ke bandhee dastaar daily..more than five times a day...:whisling:
     
  10. japjisahib04

    japjisahib04 Kuwait
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    Naamjap Ji
    Over here if we take meaning of kesav as wondros hair then it could be literal meaning. If we go in depth I find KESAV is one of name of God which our guru is using.
    Best regards
    Sahni Mohinder
     
  11. vsgrewal48895

    vsgrewal48895
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    Dear All,

    Here every one is spinning on the subject. The question was the relationship of hairs with spiritual growth of an individual.

    My short statement is an individual with or with out hair can grow spiritually. The band wagon of this slippery slope will never end.

    Let moderators decide on the subject. Those who are happy with hairs, so be it.

    Thanks all for interaction on this sensitive subject.

    Cordially,

    Virinder
     
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  12. Randip Singh

    Randip Singh
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    Come on Dal Birk. This is very uncharitable of you and not like you to act in such a manner.

    As for hair, when does one actually become a Sikh? After growing hair? or before? Or does something else happen?

    If it was all about hair, then I can assure you in the UK we have many long haired bhangi Lafanghaay who do not represent Sikhim what soever, and long hair is seen as a fashion thing.

    Lets take this subject seriously as Grewal ji has tried to. Debate it in a rational manner. Debate the subject and not the person.

    Regards
     
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  13. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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    Let's carry on with the spiritual theme.

    Page 443, Line 7
    ਰੋਮੇ ਰੋਮਿ ਰੋਮਿ ਰੋਮੇ ਮੈ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਰਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਏ ਰਾਮ ॥
    रोमे रोमि रोमि रोमे मै गुरमुखि रामु धिआए राम ॥
    Rome rom rom rome mai gurmukẖ rām ḏẖi▫ā▫e rām.
    With each and every hair, with each and every hair, as Gurmukh, I meditate on the Lord.
    Guru Ram Das - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok


     
    #13 Astroboy, Mar 22, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016
  14. vsgrewal48895

    vsgrewal48895
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    Dear Sir,

    I am posting an article on Naam in response to your above reference as to what naam is.

    Virinder
     
  15. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    Jolly Good.:welcome::star::star::star:
     
  16. japjisahib04

    japjisahib04 Kuwait
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    ਬੰਕੇ ਬਾਲ ਪਾਗ ਸਿਰਿ ਡੇਰੀ ਇਹੁ ਤਨੁ ਹੋਇਗੋ ਭਸਮ ਕੀ ਢੇਰੀ

    Bankė bāl pāg sir dėrī. ih
    an ho¬igo basam kī dėrī.

    You make your hair beautiful, and wear a stylish turban on your head. But in the end, all this and body shall be reduced to a pile of ashes.
    -----Ravidas, Raag Sorath, AGGS, Page, 659-5 & 6

    These pankti are not written in the context as is presented by Virinder Ji. Let us be very sincere with gurbani and not interpret and present it in a way to create confusion. Bhagat Ravidas in this sabd is discussing attachment and haumai - pRPsr: swihb isGM - Sbd ivc Asl zor ies g`l au~qy hY ik ie`Qy jgq ivc pMCIAW vWg jIvW dw vsybw hY, pr jIv v`fy v`fy ik`ly g`f ky mwx kr rhy hn qy r`b ƒ Bulw ky jIvn kmIny bxw rhy hn, AjweIN gvw rhy hn [ And we are simply wasting this opportunity in decorating our body.
    Let us see the other side now Bhagat Namdev in poetical expression is glorfying turban and the beauty of formless, ‘KUbu qyrI pgrI mITy qyry bol ] How handsome is your turban! And how sweet is your speech SGGS727-17. In both these pankti use of turban proves both these bhagat were maintaining pagri and as such keeping unshorn hairs. It is my belief and understanding that rishi, sadhu, peer paighambhar through their bandghi discovered that in order to be able to get blessed and please Him, it is essential to stay in the form He has created us that is why they have depicted this form of Him. I have noticed even Jews and Muslim wear turbans. Can anyone give me one single instance where clean shaven has attained a level when they are able to please the Creator?

    Regards
    Sahni Mohinder
     
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  17. vsgrewal48895

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    Dear Mohinder Ji,

    There is no meter to find out the pleasure of God. It is the individual mental peace (Tranquility) or individual spiritual experience which can make him/her understand Its mystery. Spiritual experience cannot be duplicated or shown. So your question is out of place. There are 6.5 billion people in this world while the people with hairs may be 1.5 million and out of them how many has attained serenity? Every day ratio wise we hear what do they do in the Gurudwaras etc. Question is that these 1.5 million always talk about hair or other symbols but not of virtues and good deeds. Guru Nanak specifically condemned all religious symbols. You mean to say that Sikh symbols are superior to Hindu frontal mark or sacred thread. When will you stop judging others? Each individual should be concerned about his/her spirituality.
    Let us finally agree to disagree as usual. I have already requested for the moderators to end this thread as it is getting no where. My original comments were that this is a sensitive thread and no where it is written in AGGS that cutting the hair interferes in individual spirituality thus answering the question of the individual.
    Regards.
    Virinder
     
  18. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Even without a head one can find the "pleasure of God."
     
  19. Archived_Member4

    Archived_Member4
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    This generalization is is completely irrational. I go as many other with long hair and the Sikh doing Katha does not talk about hair, in fact the hair topic rarely comes up. The importance of hair is only understood by the people that know how important it is to obey Guru Sahib in every aspect of their life.

    You can't put the 5 Kakkars in the same box as Hindu sacred thread. The five Kakkar are for everyone that is willing to take amrit regardless of caste and the sacred thread of a Hindu is just for the hihger caste a Brahmin. Guru Nanak Dev ji did not condemn religious symbols.

    Please Please present the facts correctly. Please do not distort the meaning of the symbols of Sikhi.

    Once again, Khalsa is not in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji so does this mean Khalsa has nothing to do with spirituality? And do not say this is a sentive issue because when you claim that hair is not apart of spirituality then also you are claiming that Khalsa is not apart of spirituality for the same reason.
     
  20. japjisahib04

    japjisahib04 Kuwait
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    Virinder Ji

    I was only commenting on the sabd and there is nothing personal. I was preparing comments on the third Sabd listed by you but let us finally agree to disagree as usual and I am closing my file on hair. My apologies.

    I take this opportunity to state that Spiritual experience cannot be hidden it appears on the forehead , ‘guJVw lDmu lwlu mQY hI prgtu iQAw ] the hidden jewel has appeared on the forehead – SGGS 1096.14 and not as observed by you that it cannot be shown or duplicated. So my question was not out of place.

    Please note Sabd Guru questions the validity of Hindu frontal mark and sacred thread (janeu) whereas it glories the turban and hair as mentioned earlier with gur vaak so you yourselves can judge what is right.

    Finally Virinder Ji one very simple question, when a person marries does he look the virtues and deeds of bride only or presentation also. Take it from me same system applies everywhere. Gur sabd - dwgy hoih su rn mih jUJih ibnu dwgy Big jweI ] Jo bramanday soey pinday.

    Best regards
    Sahni Mohinder
     
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