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Gurus Guru's Pictures and Portraits

Discussion in 'History of Sikhism' started by navroopsingh, Dec 26, 2006.

  1. navroopsingh

    navroopsingh
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    I personally believe that keeping pictures of the guru's at your house or wherever is wrong as it could eventually lead to their worshipping and even the guru's themselves said to not have pictures of them made...anyways, i just wanted to here everyone's opinions on this subject.




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  3. truthseeker

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    Re: Guru's "pictures/portraits"

    Waheguru ji ka khalsa, Waheguru ji ki fateh

    IMHO i dont really thinks a bad thing to have pictures of our Guru's at home, or anywhere else. As long as, like Veerji said, we do not begin to worship the photo. Sometimes people need to have something that they can see right in front of them, and thats what the pictutre provides something tangible that we can see. Not that we are praying to the image, but the values that that image may represent.
    Now you may say, thats what Guru Granth Sahib is for, HE is our eternal Guru, why do we need picture? For moorakhs like me who dont have Guru Ji's saroop in their house, and who may only get to go to grudwara once a week, sometimes having a picture of Guru Nanak Dev Ji in my bed room helps to remind me of the values that Sikhi teaches us. Yes, worshipping the picture is wrong, but i dont think that "worshipping" the values is.
    bhul chuk maaf karni
    Waheguru ji ka khalsa, Waheguru ji ki fateh
     
  4. riceboy89

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    Re: Guru's "pictures/portraits"

    i agree with truthseeker. pictures show us somethign tangible that we can picture in our minds. it puts a face to a name. like said previously, its essential that we do not worship these photos, seeing as that is prohibited.

    my question then is how did artists such as soba singh know what the gurus really looked like?

    sorry if i hijacked your thread...
     
  5. Mai Harinder Kaur

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    Re: Guru's "pictures/portraits"

    Having a Catholic mother, I was force-fed that religion as a child, including 'holy pictures' of the 'saints.' I saw how easy it became for people to pray to these pictures and came to dislike them intensely.

    Catholic 'saints' are most certainly not to be compared to our Gurus, but I have seen people pray to pictures of Guru Nanak Devi Ji, and it hurts me.

    However, today I personally find pictures of the Gurus to be comforting, but I don't keep them around, except in the screensaver of my computer. I cannot imagine anyone praying to a computer screen!
     
  6. Perdip

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    Salaam & Sat Sri Akaal Nav

    Prophet Muhammed PBUH also said the same and it is tru that many of our Sikhs are praying doing sajdha (bowing) to photo's, so where does this leave God? It is God whom we shoudl alone bow down to and meditate on His Name (even though I get confused which way to matah tekh some times). Photo's a good way to get childrens interest in religion and I do not personally think there is anything wrong with pictures photo's of Holy people and Guru's providing you do not start to worship them. I think it would be better to have pictures of the actual buildings that are connected to the Guru/Peer such as Harmandir Sahib or Makkah Madina or a Mandir of your Devi/Devta. Peace and love to all. Vaheguru Ji ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Ji ke Phateh.
     
  7. kaur-1

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    Prophet Muhammad? Picture of Madina? picture of Harmindar Sahib??

    I think thats the muslim way of thinking!!

    Sikhs may have pictures of Gurus and even Harmindar Sahib but they do not actually "pray" to them per say.

    Its like seeing a Church, a Mosque, a Buddhist temple and of a course a Gurdwara. The sight of this various places of worship reminds one of GOD - Waheguroo.

    Sikhs also do not face in a particular direction to this places of worship or pray only a certain no. of times a day as Waheguroo should be remembered all day everyday in every breath if possible.
     
  8. Perdip

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    Re: Guru's "pictures/portraits"

    It is possible that Sobha Singh may have had sightings of our dear Guru's or someone who may have has given a description to him. I'm our Guru's do not look exactly like the pictures that have been made and they can manifest themselves to us in any way that God wants them to. Blessed is the one who has the true sighting of the blessed Guru Ji.
     
  9. Perdip

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    Sat Sri Akaal Jaur Ji

    There is nothing wrong with the Muslim way of thinking providing the thought has God in mind. Your fourth sentence was the whole point of my saying a picture of the place of worship would suffice if one does not feel comfortable with actual pictures of Guru's.

    Please tell me one thing Kaur Ji, how many breath's out of the many thousands in the day that you breath do you manage to say God's Name? Indeed God should be remembered with every breath, with every heart beat and for every second that passes by and this is not a task that anyone can perform. Whilst we are engaged in our duties throughout the day one can easily become engrossed in the work they are doing and God can become difficult to remember. Knowing that you need to pray in the early afternoon, late afternoon and early evening and then late evening helps you to remember God more frequently and is not a bad thing especially if it brings you closer to God. Please do not discriminate between Sikhs and Muslims, Sikh God is the same as Muslim God and we should adapt the love that our Guru's had with the true Muslims and vice versa for they have true love for God too. If Sikhs should not treat one differently because of their caste, then why should we treat someone differently because of their faith? Please read the following from the GGS...

    SHALOK, FIRST MEHL: Let mercy be your mosque, faith your prayer-mat, and honest living your Koran. Make modesty your circumcision, and good conduct your fast. In this way, you shall be a true Muslim. Let good conduct be your Kaabaa, Truth your spiritual guide, and the karma of good deeds your prayer and chant. Let your rosary be that which is pleasing to His Will.

    FIRST MEHL: There are five prayers and five times of day for prayer; the five have five names. Let the first be truthfulness, the second honest living, and the third charity in the Name of God. Let the fourth be good will to all, and the fifth the praise of the Lord. Repeat the prayer of good deeds, and then, you may call yourself a Muslim.

    SHALOK, FIRST MEHL: It is difficult to be called a Muslim; if one is truly a Muslim, then he may be called one. First, let him savor the religion of the Prophet as sweet; then, let his pride of his possessions be scraped away. Becoming a true Muslim, a disciple of the faith of Mohammed, let him put aside the delusion of death and life. As he submits to God’s Will, and surrenders to the Creator, he is rid of selfishness and conceit. And when, O Nanak, he is merciful to all beings, only then shall he be called a Muslim.

    Allah is hidden in every heart; reflect upon this in your mind. The One Lord is within both Hindu and Muslim; Kabeer proclaims this out loud.

    Be kind and compassionate to me, O Creator Lord. Bless me with devotion and meditation, O Lord Creator. Says Nanak, the Guru has rid me of doubt. The Muslim God Allah and the Hindu God Paarbrahm are one and the same.

    To be Muslim is to be kind-hearted, and wash away pollution from within the heart. He does not even approach worldly pleasures; he is pure, like flowers, silk, ghee and the deer-skin. || 13 || One who is blessed with the mercy and compassion of the Merciful Lord, is the manliest man among men. He alone is a Shaykh, a preacher, a Haji, and he alone is God’s slave, who is blessed with God’s Grace. || 14 || The Creator Lord has Creative Power; the Merciful Lord has Mercy. The Praises and the Love of the Merciful Lord are unfathomable. Realize the True Hukam, the Command of the Lord, O Nanak; you shall be released from bondage, and carried across.

    I am not a Hindu, nor am I a Muslim. My body and breath of life belong to Allah — to Raam — the God of both. || 4 || Says Kabeer, this is what I say: meeting with the Guru, my Spiritual Teacher, I realize God, my Lord and Master.
     
  10. kaur-1

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    As this section is about "Sikh Gurus", I will repeat my answer to the original question again. See above quote.

    And Perdip, it is good that you are reading from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Hope it helps you get more into Sikhi and Waheguroo will surely bless you with Amrit one day.:)
     
  11. Perdip

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    God help...
     
  12. Perdip

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    I do not want to get more into Sikhi but live as a Sikh. As for Sikh Guru's, Nanak Dev Ji stated

    The Guru is Shiva, the Guru is Vishnu and Brahma; the Guru is Paarvati and Lakhshmi. Even knowing God, I cannot describe Him; He cannot be described in words. The Guru has given me this one understanding: there is only the One, the Giver of all souls. May I never forget Him!

    Taking the message previous to yours into account and all that the GGS contains, what faith does Sikh philosophy not cover?

    Maybe I've come to the wrong section? I'll continue to search for the section where One God can be discussed without discrimination and prejudice.
     
  13. Khalsa200

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    Dear Navroop singh ji,

    SSA. I agree with you. However there is more to it.

    Our Gurus, in their infinate wisdom, forbade Sikhs to worship pictures, idols etc of any one including themselves (Gurus).

    Here is just one example, of the thousands, how these means are being used to manipulate the Sikh philosophy. The other day I saw a calendar picture showing "Guru Nanak Dev Ji tying Rakhri to Babe Nanki”!. Do you know ow many innocent Sikhs can be manipulated, so strongly, but equally unconsciously.

    Khalsa200
     
  14. husanmaurkhalsa

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    Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
    Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

    I had the same issue and tried thinking about it.
    I think there is not picture of any Guru. Sobha Singh listened to others and imagined Gurus. Sometimes you can see Mala in Guru Nanakdevji's Picture.

    It's true if we take them in positive way there are some benefits but there are more wrong things associated. For example we already had this rakhi pic of Guru Nanak. But there can be a lot more. Anybody can portray anything in pictures. I credit muslims in this logic. They don't have any picture of their Prophet. But they instead put Verses of quran on walls instead of pics. And I accepted it as perfect way. Now I am thinking can we put Shabad in frame and hang it on wall. In this way i think i can be more near to guru's teachings, which is i think main intension of sikhism. I can read it daily and try to implement it in my life. I think it would be wonderful and lot more effective than imagined pictures of Guru's. I think our main aim is to get connected with our eternal guru/shabad guru or Guru Jyot not Guru's Deh (Sharir) /or pictures.

    Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
    Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
     
  15. bawaj

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    The guru is the bani, the word of the guru. The human form is irrelevant. "guru manyo Granth". So having pictures does not really mean much as they are only aesthetic in value. Plus how many of us are actually following in the paths of the Gurus? Because I feel that this energy should be spent discussing more prominant issues facing sikhism. What do you all think?
     
  16. jasi

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    Dear Khalsa ji. you are 100% correct. There is nor room in sikhism for to keep pictures of our Gurus. First of all these pictures are made upon imaginery thoughts by many ideviduals.

    They even do know how our gurus looked like.So is absolutly stop publishing them even remove them from Golden temple's art gallery which does not make any sense to display the art works by Bhai Sobha Singh ji.

    Let the sikh themselves realize their mistakes not tofollow the real messages by our Gurus who always critisize hindu for statu POOJA and PICTURES worship.




    jaspi
     
  17. Perdip

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    Sat Sri Akaal to all

    Certain shabads, especially first pauri is already available framed, in punjabi and english. These are excellent reminders and opportunities to recite shabad and remember God. On another level, pictures have helped my son learn about Guru Ji as this is one of the easiest things children relate to and my son knows Guru Gobind Singh Ji as 'Fighting Guru Ji' a symbol of strength and justice, protector of the poor and helper of those who are on the True path. On several occasions my son referred to Guru Ji's photo's as God and after constant explaining my son hopefully now understands Guru Ji was one through who God showed the True path and God is ever present in Creation. He does ask what does God look like and the only answer I can give is that if he is good, does good deeds and remembers God, he will certainly meet God one day,whether in this life or after it, as we will all return to our True Creator.

    Vaheguru ji ka khalsa vaheguru ji ke phateh. Peace
     
  18. skeptik

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    who cares?
     
  19. badmash

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    Hey, if a picture or painting of a guru helps one to remember, concentrate, pay, respect or otherwise aid in one's "religion" , that is fine by me. Personally, pray to it as well if you want. So what? At least that person is venerating a Sikh theme and pillar. I know, "Not allowed", but it is not like we are THAT different from the hindus.
     
  20. bawaj

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    Someone who says that we are not THAT different from hinduism does not know Sikhi at all. Sikism is a self empowering religion and if you need to look at a picture to assist you in your worship then you are succumbing to weakness. This may sound mystical but believe me... keep your heart true and pure and use the presence of Satnam in your heart to assist you in your prayers. Do not fall into the trap of performing ritualistic prayers to the pictures as that is not the way of the Sikh. Picture is only materialistic existence while bani is ETERNAL. Free your self from all materialistic and ritualistic bondage.
     
  21. badmash

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    Bull.
    Sikhism is basically distilled hindusim and vedic philosophy absence much of the rituals, pile on centuries of islamic influence and the punjabi influences and there you are. Like all other religions, we are not that unique, although technically more modern and progressive. That is the dichotomy is it not? We cannot really separate ourselves from our hindu roots, yet we have allowed the {censored word, do not repeat.} kuthas the chances to divide us, subjugate us, kill us, desecrate our gurudwaras, use our men as cannon fodder and now our stupid leaders are allowing them to absorb our religion, language and people. So........ahem......where was I .......yes, despite all that, I really do feel that GGS and "Sikhi" and hinduism have the same basic roots and philosophies. "Materalistic and ritualistic bondage" is what the common man has, it is what the khalsa soldier had, it is what lakhs of Sikh soldiers across many continents had when they fought and died for the British master. What you are refering to is the abstract form of evolved spirituality which few ever will or can achieve, and to practice it often allows the realization of the true humanity of all mankind (in which there is no place for bigotry, prejudice, bias or pride)....and what does that leave you with? Essentially a yogi or working ascetic who cannot withstand the barbarians at his door.:}8-: :8-:)
     

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