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Hinduism Gods and Goddesses

Discussion in 'Interfaith Dialogues' started by Sugmad, May 8, 2006.

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  1. Sugmad

    Sugmad
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    BHAGAT KABIR'S VIEW ON SO CALLED GOD'S AND GODDESSES


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    O sadhu , consider only Him as the Lord
    Who is beyond the wheel of action (Karma.)
    The Lord does not take birth nor does he die.
    But if Ram was born of Dashrath,
    Then Dashrath must be God.
    But who gave birth to Dashrath?
    Take another God of yours - Krishna
    He made love with Radha and Rukmini;
    God does not make love with women,
    But Krishna enjoyed sixteen thousand milkmaids.
    Thus he becomes a veritable sex-addict.
    God has not father or mother,
    But Krishna
    Had a father in Vasudev and a mother in Devki,
    And he was brought up in the house of his uncle Nanda,
    How can you call him,
    Who is so much engulfed in Karma, the Lord ?

    Bhagat Kabir
     
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  3. Archived_member2

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    Satsriakal to all!

    It is surprising to know that Kabir Ji knew English.

    Balbir Singh
     
  4. vijaydeep Singh

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    Gurfateh

    Brahmgyani are not bouneded by language.
     
  5. Archived_member2

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    Satsriakal to all!

    Strange that people write something in English and claim those are Kabir Ji's words.


    Balbir Singh
     
  6. Sugmad

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    From Anurag Sagar :

    "Oh Dharam Dass! The unkind people, the creatures of 'Kal' will not
    accept the teaching of Naam (Word). They will follow the dictates of
    their mind and will not have a desire to do good deeds. They will do
    evil deeds and entangle people in quarrels and controversies."

    The people with unsteady vision will not be able to concentrate
    during meditation.

    They will talk of otherworldly things and of uniting people with
    God. They will dress up as if they are Godlike. Consider them as
    disguised persons of Kal.

    Dharam Dass requested Kabir sahib, "Please tell me how to know the
    identity of those souls (people) who are to be initiated and who are
    not to be? How can I distinguish between them? Oh my Lord! you are
    all knowing. You only can reveal this secret."

    Kabir sahib said, "Oh Dharam Dass! You have to judge whether the
    person is humble and desirous of salvation through worship."

    Kabir sahib further said, "Before initiation, it is to be seen that
    the person possesses kindness and forgiveness. If he possesses these
    qualities then he should be initiated".

    You have to see that the person is capable of meditating day or
    night. Then only initiate him into Naam.

    "Oh Dharam Dass! When the heart of a disciple is purified by
    initiation and meditation, then he is blessed with the glimpse of
    his Guru (Master) within himself."

    "Oh Dharam Dass! the knowledge which you have received from me is
    the inner knowledge of supreme bliss. Through this knowledge you can
    reach and attain Gurpad". It is the stage on the way to the Supreme
    Abode. It is above Trikuti (the appellation of second spiritual
    region). On reaching this stage one is enlightened with the
    knowledge to get rid of delusion and attachment for worldly things.
    There is no substitute or alternative of this knowledge."

    "Oh Dharam Dass! It is a secret, which every body does not know."

    "Oh Dharam Dass, after enlightenment, delusive attachment for
    worldly pleasures goes away just as darkness disappears after
    sunrise."

    "Oh Dharam Dass! when a person is initiated and during meditation,
    when his attention is retraced from the toes of his feet to behind
    the eyes, then first thing he sees is 'Sakha Jyoti' (a friendly
    appealing light). Next he reaches 'Jhinjari dweep' (region), where
    he see 'Jhilmil Jyoti' (flickering light). Further he reaches
    Sahansdal Kanwal (appellation of the first spiritual region), where
    he comes across 'Jagmag Jyoti' (a gleaming light). After that when
    his soul reaches 'Daswan Dwar' (the tenth aperture, appellation of
    the third spiritual region), there he sees a lake of Nectar
    (Amritsar) and is baptised in it. Here the soul attains the light
    equivalent to the light of twelve suns. Reaching next stage, "Sach
    Khand", soul attains light equal to 16 suns. Then after crossing the
    Alakh and Agam desh (sixth and seventh spiritual regions) the soul
    reaches Anami Desh, the eighth and the highest spiritual region.
    Here it merges into God. We say it has united with God and there is
    no difference between Soul and God. Its state is like a drop of
    water which when dropped in the sea, loses its identity by mixing in
    the water of sea. It becomes the ocean."
     
  7. Sugmad

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    Mystic Songs - 9
    Sadho Ye Murdon Ka Gaon
    Peer Mare, Pygambar Mari Hain
    Mari Hain Zinda Jogi
    Raja Mari Hain, Parja Mari Hain
    Mari Hain Baid Aur Rogi
    Chanda Mari Hain, Suraj Mari Hain
    Mari Hain Dharni Akasa
    Chaudan Bhuvan Ke Chaudhry Mari Hain
    In Hun Ki Ka Asa
    Nauhun Mari Hain, Dus Hun Mari Hain
    Mari Hain Sahaj Athasi
    Tethis Koti Devata Mari Hain
    Badi Kaal Ki Bazi
    Naam Anam Anant Rehat Hai
    Duja Tatva Na Hoi
    Kahe Kabir Suno Bhai Sadho
    Bhatak Maro Mat Koi
    saaQaao yao maurdaoM ka gaaMva
    pIr maro pOgambar mair hOM
    mair hOM ij,anda jaaogaI
    rajaa mair hOM prjaa mair hO
    mair hOM baOd AaOr raogaI
    caMda mair hO saUrja mair hO
    mair hO QarNaI Aakasaa
    caaOdaM Bauvana ko caaOQarI mair hOM
    [nhUM kI ka Aasaa
    naaOhUM mair hOM dsahuM mair hOM
    mair hOM sahja A{asaI
    tOtIsa kaoiT dovata mair hOM
    baD,I kala kI baaj,aI
    naama Anaama AnaMt rht hO
    dUjaa t%va na hao[
    kho kbaIr saunaao Baa[- saaQaao
    BaTk marao mat kao[
    Translation
    Oh Sadhu This is the Village of the Dead

    The Saints Have Died, The God-Messengers Die
    The Life-Filled Yogis Die Too |
    The Kings Die, The Subjects Die
    The Healers and the Sick Die Too ||

    The Moon Dies, The Sun Dies
    The Earth and Sky Die Too |
    Even the Caretakers of the Fourteen Worlds Die
    Why Hope For Any of These ||

    The Nine Die, The Ten Die
    The Eighty Eight Die Easily Too |
    The Thirty Three Crore Devatas (Enlightened Beings) Die
    It's a Big Game of Time ||

    The Un-Named Naam Lives Without Any End
    There is No Other Truth ||
    Says Kabir Listen Oh Sadhu
    Don't Get Lost and Die ||

    Explanation
    [​IMG]The reality as we experience it every day is dynamic in nature - i.e., if there is one thing that is constant is the fact that everything is changing all the time. Whatever takes birth must die too, and vice-versa, what dies must be born also (the former is easier to see, while the latter is not obvious from our daily experience - try reflecting on why that is the case). Nothing escapes the tentacles of this "Kala Chakra" or the "Wheel of Time", whether it is an ant, a peasant, a king, the ten avataras, the sages, the cosmic entities or the pantheon of gods and goddesses.
    Kabir tells us that the internal power of attention in each of us is the primary driving force. Wherever we focus our attention is the place where we eventually end up. A poor man who really wants to be a king will surely, over time, become one, even though it may take multiple time-windows (called lifetime) to achieve the goal. The same holds true for the goal of reaching/uniting with a God or Goddess.
    Kabir warns us of the limitation of these goals or destinations as they are still intrinsically caught in the virtuoso game of time. The velocity and momentum of movement for each of these entities maybe different giving an appearance of relative stability/magnificence, but the fact is that each is basically working within the tenets of the same dynamic, time-driven framework.
    Looking at all this from a perspective that is beyond time, Kabir tell us that if the desire is not to keep going around in circles of time, we should seek what is end-less (and begin-less). Guru Nanak summarizes this beautifully - Jaki Chinta Karo Jo Anhoni Hoi - meditate/focus on that that never happened. In his inimitable way, the great master, Kabir, urges us to break away from the shackles of this village of the dead ruled by Kala or time. Kabir then explains that the sound of Naam is the only true substance of value, which takes us to the absolute source beyond all destinations of birth and death.
     
  8. kds1980

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    bhagat namdev on worshiping gods and goddesses

    ???? ?
    ???? ?
    gond.
    Gond:


    ???? ??? ????? ???? ?
    ???? ??? ????? ???? ?
    bhairo bhoot seetlaa Dhaavai.
    One who chases after the god Bhairau, evil spirits and the goddess of smallpox,


    ?? ????? ??? ???? ????? ???
    ?? ????? ??? ???? ????? ???
    khar baahan uho chhaar udaavai. ||1||
    is riding on a donkey, kicking up the dust. ||1||


    ?? ?? ??? ???? ???? ?
    ?? ?? ??? ???? ???? ?
    ha-o ta-o ayk rama-ee-aa laiha-o.
    I take only the Name of the One Lord.


    ?? ??? ??????? ???? ??? ???? ?
    ?? ??? ??????? ???? ??? ???? ?
    aan dayv badlaavan daiha-o. ||1|| rahaa-o.
    I have given away all other gods in exchange for Him. ||1||Pause||


    ??? ??? ???? ?? ??? ????? ?
    ??? ??? ???? ?? ??? ????? ?
    siv siv kartay jo nar Dhi-aavai.
    That man who chants "Shiva, Shiva", and meditates on him,


    ??? ??? ???? ?????? ???
    ??? ??? ???? ?????? ???
    barad chadhay da-uroo dhamkaavai. ||2||
    is riding on a bull, shaking a tambourine. ||2||


    ??? ??? ?? ???? ??? ?
    ??? ??? ?? ???? ??? ?
    mahaa maa-ee kee poojaa karai.
    One who worships the Great Goddess Maya


    ?? ?? ???? ??? ????? ???
    ?? ?? ???? ??? ????? ???
    nar sai naar ho-ay a-utarai. ||3||
    will be reincarnated as a woman, and not a man. ||3||


    ?? ????? ?? ??? ????? ?
    ?? ????? ?? ??? ????? ?
    too kahee-at hee aad bhavaanee.
    You are called the Primal Goddess.


    ????? ?? ???? ??? ????? ???
    ????? ?? ???? ??? ????? ???
    mukat kee baree-aa kahaa chhapaanee. ||4||
    At the time of liberation, where will you hide then? ||4||


    ?????? ??? ??? ??? ???? ?
    ?????? ??? ??? ??? ???? ?
    gurmat raam naam gahu meetaa.
    Follow the Guru's Teachings, and hold tight to the Lord's Name, O friend.


    ?????? ???? ?? ??? ???? ???????
    ?????? ???? ?? ??? ???? ???????
    paranvai naamaa i-o kahai geetaa. ||5||2||6||
    Thus prays Naam Dayv, and so says the Gita as well. ||5||2||6||
     
  9. Archived_member2

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    Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!

    Sugmad Ji!

    You have presented references from a book, 'Anurag Sagar.'

    I found at least four characters playing their role in the drama mentioned. They are Kabir, Dharam Das, the writer and Sugmad.

    By the way the scenes the writer has described, has nothing to do with Sikhi.

    **************
    Kds1980 Ji!

    Thanks for the wonderful Vaak from Namdev Ji.

    Would you please explain which of the Shabad from this Vaak is translated 'gods and goddesses'. I will be grateful.

    **************

    Gurdev sang too about gods. An example is here.

    "maanas tay dayvtay bha-ay Dhi-aa-i-aa naam haray." SGGS Ang 90-17
    They became gods from human beings meditating Naam 'Haray'.


    Balbir Singh
     
  10. bulleshah

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    sugmad,


    Nice shloka by Kabir but I believe Kabir preceded Nanak.
    So did Namdev, Parmananda, Tirlochan...

    How come we call Nanak the founder of sikhism.
    Did he invent sikhism od did he merely discover what was
    always there ?? I think it's the latter.


    After having gone through the Guru-Granth-Ji any one can tell that Nanak
    was not bringing any new covenant from some God(He himself never claimed to)
    but only discovering what was already there.

    Nanak did not invent Sikhi. He discovered it. Come to think of it Sikhi was actually
    discovered by Kabir, Namdev, Tirlochan etc. all of whom existed when Nanak was
    not even born. And also all the things these people talked about existed before them.



    Read the following :


    "There is no heaven, no final liberation, nor any soul in another world,
    Nor do the actions of the four castes, etc., produce any real effect.
    The Agnihotra, the three Vedas, the ascetic's three staves, and smearing one's self with ashes,
    Were made by Nature as the livelihood or those destitute of knowledge and manliness."

    - - - Savradarshana Samgraha - - -


    "Ekam Sat, Viprah Bahudha Vadanti".
    (There is only one truth, only men describe it in different ways). - - - The Rig Veda - - -


    "The Divine Thread started everything.
    The knower of the Thread is a yogi, his Knowledge is beyond the scope of the Vedas.
    Pearls stringed together form an ornament. The Divine Thread holds together the Universe.
    The Yogi wears this Thread when he becomes aware of his Divinity.
    Established in highest state of Yoga, the yogi discards the external thread.
    The wearer of the Thread of Knowledge is never unclean. The Thread exists within him.
    Knowledge is the greatest purifier." - - -
    Brahma Upanishad - - -



    "The misguided ones who delight in the melodious chanting of the
    Veda - without understanding the real purpose of the Vedas - think,
    O Arjuna, as if there is nothing else in the Vedas except the rituals
    for the sole purpose of obtaining heavenly enjoyment."
    - - - 2.42 - The Geeta - - -


    "To a Self-realized person the Vedas are as useful as a small reservoir of
    water when the water of a huge lake becomes available."
    - - - 2.46 - The Geeta - - -


    http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/gita/agsgita.htm


    There is nothing new in Sikhism.
    The principles Kabir and Nanak followed are very much and decidedly Hindu.


    Thanks.


    PS : Rama never was a God. Read the Ramayana.
     
  11. vijaydeep Singh

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    Gurfateh

    Dear Brother Balbeer Singh Ji,


    Devi and Devta are made by Akal to serve us ie Humans.Say bowing of Farishtas to Adem(but for Satan),is only symbl of this.

    As minsters are duty bound to serve the subjects so as ordered by King.So we are subjects Akal is King and ministers are Devi and Devtas.
    We do not have to bribe them but obey King only who is God of gods.

    We can atain minsterhood so we may be like Devi or Devta or what we call shaheed Singhs but that is not salvation ,which is when we are one with king.
     
  12. Sugmad

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    Guru Gobind Singh Ji has written :
    Mai ‘n’ ganays(i) pritham manaaoo(n), kisn bisn kabhoo(n) nh dhiaaoo(n)
    Kaan sunay pahichaan ‘n’ thin so, liv laagee more pag in so

    I do not praise or hail Ganesh nor do I let the thought of Vishnu or any incarnations of Vishnu enter my mind. I know of their existence, but I do not ever worship them. May my prayers and thoughts always be in the immaculate, holy feet of the Lord (the one and only
     
  13. Archived_member2

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    Satsriakal to all and Sugmad Ji!
    Thanks for the wonderful Vaaks from Guru Gobind Singh Ji.

    Please give your views what you understand from these Vaaks. It may lead to an interesting Satsang.

    This is the borrowed translation. It is also not correct, in my view. For example manaaoo(n) means 'persuade' not praise or hail.


    Balbir Singh
     
  14. vijaydeep Singh

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    Gurfateh

    It is liv Lage mori Pag tin So if das is not mistaken.

    As per Hindus Lord Ganesha was told be worshiped first in all the work and swatik is symbol of Ganesha only as a blessing from Lord Shiva after he was revived by transplanitng the elephants head.

    But Singh is free from lord Shiva and Shiva is more a role model to us for Niuhngs or say Udasis as worshipper of Akal.And Akal is not bouonded by let gatway of prayer be open by Gaeshana(Jenous in Greek and hence January ,the fiorst month,Vinayaka in japnees shinto and also in pgan indians of South America perhaps).

    Ie Ganehsa is not needed to remove hurdles or vighna of worship of Akal,nor the keeping of mind the Krishna or Vishnu.

    so no ned to invoke Ganesha at all.As Ganesha works as Mahakal Akal tells Gaensha to act so is the case with Krishana or Vishnu.

    all is false but Sat Sri Akal.
     
  15. Sugmad

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    Vishnu reincarnated as Rama.He was a God.
     
  16. vijaydeep Singh

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    Gurfateh
    Well when das brings something new in gurmat bulleshah questions it,but can not produice a similar thing in old texts.

    Das will give an example,

    Pushpak Vimana was a flying Machine in Ramayana.When actual machine was made and if someone says it is noting new as it was already conceptuliseed in Ramayana then it show intelectual conspiracy of that person.

    It is like that as if it is same to Marry a girl and have child from her and just imagining to do the same without doing anything real.
    Well as india is made up of mud so indian worshiper of Bharat Mata caled Hindus have intellect like that.

    But actual one as per thier idelogigy needs tobe of five Elemeant and mud is only one part.
     
  17. Sugmad

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  18. Archived_member7

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    satsriakaalji
    saadh sangat..heere is a fake sikh who by doing ninda of an avatar of the Akal Purakh is making himself noticed ..and we have moodhs here who would agree to this ....

    Vijaydeepji...i m totally shocked by yor behaviour.....u had all guts to stop a guy frm abusing islam and how come u praise this person who uses such derogatory language !!!!

    Well sugmad...i would say have this guts to say this in public.....belive me i promise you ..your head shall not be on yor shoulders....

    Well all those people who cannot say anything to such a person...i would say ...u may have a keshdhaari swaroop...but all is in vain if u agree to such a person who slurs Avatars in the name of kabir ...

    A man who slurs at Avatars of the Hari Parmatma...has no place in sikhi...and if this is the sikhi that u follow then all those who agree to his views....are just not sikhs....

    Sugmad....maybe you have many fathers ...maybe you are born of some accident ..a one night stand ..who can think shit at this level ....

    The Sangat has no veers here who can stop shit !!! shame to all of us ..and shame to all the so called gyanis ....and sevadaars !!!!

    Raaj Karega KhALSA....
     
  19. 21khalsa13

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    sat shri akaal

    mr raaj khalsa ji
    what is your positive contribution to this discussion
    so that we lowly people may all learn from you
     
  20. dalsingh

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    ------------------------------

    I came across this in var 20, pauri 8 of Bhai Gurdas de var:

    Devi dev na sev na pooj karaaeiaa.

    Gods and Goddesses are not served or worshipped (by Gursikhs)


    Can't be any clearer than that huh?
     
  21. BaljeetSingh

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    Well...I got one of my fears confirmed from Raj Khalsa's reply...There are some fake sikhs in this forum. I will not take any names....You are all educated and mature poeple and will find out yourself in due course of time.

    Now, as regards the contents on this thread and comments on our Gurus... If the theory that Guru Nanak found what was already there....then someone very well said....

    There are four types of people in this world.

    1. Those who know and know that they know...they are teachers and leaders (Gurus), follow them...Guru Nanak led the people

    2. Those who know and do not know they know, they are sleeping. Wake them up...(15th century India was sleeping ...Guru Nanak woke them up)

    3. Those who do not know and know that they do not know....They are simple/students (Sikhs)...teach them....Guru Nanak did just that

    4. Those who do not know and do not know that they do not know....They are idiots....shun them...As in Gurbani...Moorkhe naal na lujhhiye - Do not argue with an idiot (Asa Dee var)...Samjhdaar ko ishara kaafi hai :)

    Regards
     

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