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Discussion in 'Sikh Youth' started by Neutral Singh, Oct 19, 2004.
Taken from another website...
Reply by Amarpal Ji
It's always been like that. Sikhism is a dead end now. It's become exactly what the Guru's tried to go against.
It's become something ritual, and something your born into, a caste on the ladder of religions. It's plagued by Hindu concepts.
Is there a way out? I say no.
Sikhism is like a star that came up out of no where, flashed an enormous amount of light and quickly died away to nothing.
Soon, we'll be history.
You think its education that will keep Sikhism on track? I say not.
"Liberation Theology" is the new way to go, and Political ideologies will become the new sort of religion.
What do I think CAN happen? The ones who remain close to the older religions (any religion)...will be the ones that can use these new types of religion very wisely and correctly. The morals drawn from the previous religion will aide greatly in this transistion.
As far as the Khalsa identity -- It will die.
Dear s|kh ji,
I do NOT think it has hit dead-end. Instead of another 'ism, Think in terms of a way of life, then that will make more sense. Sikhs always came out of worst kind of situations, and stood taller next time. Actually, even I do not agree about dying of Khalsa identity, no-way.
We just have different perceptions of reality. Can't say either of us is right or wrong,
Only time shall tell...
O sure, I just aired my opinion / belief, with total regards to urs and others perception. I look forward to time, for pleasant surprises. And this can happen when Sikh or Singh follows the Hukam, no force in the world can take them off the track.
Sikhi will NEVER end, I know this because a kaum with a Guroo like Sri Guroo Granth Sahib Ji Mahraj, will always be on top, it can never be defeated or destroyed. The Khalsa and Sri Guroo Granth Sahib Ji Mahraj is an indestructable force.
the future:RAJ KAREGA KHALSA
can you explain in bit detail what you mean by Identity in
As far as the Khalsa identity -- It will die
By Khalsa identity, S|kh means a free-flowing beard, with turban, all unshorn hair on body, actually with all 5 Kakaars.
S|kh, Please Correct me, if my perception is wrong.
Sikhi was around before Guru Nanak. But the term has changed, I am using it as means to a "religion" and not just a mere idealogy.
Of course the idealogy will always exist...but as a religion, with a distinct identity, will cease to exist.
and Yes Sevadaar Singh is right, that is what I mean by the Khalsa Identity.
It WILL cease to exist.
There's doctrines of the Aztecs and Samurai that said they will rule the world too, and to just hope and wait for the true savior to come....we all know what happened to those 2 groups...
Oh there bloodline is still alive, and their idealogy has been reformed but still exists, but as a distinct group of people, they are dead, they are gone.
I do not understand how you guys think we are any different.
Lots of faith, some of it being blind.
Its not just anyone who said we will have raj its Sri Guroo Gobind Singh Ji Mahraj who said so, are you saying he's wrong?
And to the Aztecs and Samurai, it was just not "anyone" saying those things...but their most holy and dearly held leaders and men...are you saying they are wrong?
Come on, guys, this is why Islam and Islamic countries are in a state of crisis...becauase instead of teaching the knowledge gained from Islam as infalliable, they treat the book and the leader as infalliable and utmost true to the word.
Now, are you questioning the Aztec leader and saying they were wrong? Are you saying Jesus Christ will never come back? Are you saying Prophet Muhammond was wrong in his claim that Islam will conquer the world?
For, who is higher? For, who is lower? For, who is truer?
If the Guru's taught one thing, it was to study, learn, contemplate (meditate) upon the task or situation, and to actively seek the truth. To merely accept on blind faith was NOT the Guru's wishes. For Guru Nanak disregarded Hindu rituals....because he thought they consisted of blind faith.
"Do not simply believe a verse in a 'holy' book, but until you are given the experience of what is described, nothing simply written in 'holy' books can be believable." -Buddha
This is our Guroo saying it.dont you trust him
please quote the references from aztec and samurai religious doctrines and enlighten all of us here on the forums too ..
that what kind of prophecy is there that they wud rule and conquer and when.
and also one thing should not be forgotten here that all the religious scritures u were talking of none was written by the prophets themselves (christ never wrote bible, momhammad koran), but when it comes to sikhism our single parameter and bench mark is SRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI and that is guru's word and thats written by gurus themselves not by any disciples or followers, we as seekers shud be able to differentiate between gurus shabad n saakhis, saakhis were written by others but the teaching are by gurus themselves and there is no space for pollution there.
Dear Singhstah Ji,
Take it easy...
Please dont treat our fellow member S|kh as a Sikh but threat him as a Truth Seeker... then you won't be bothered by his style of questioning everything... so my suggestion take it easy.
fateh.ok sorry ji i'll cool it
Sorry, instead of Aztec, it's a Mayan prophecy.
They used to have a sacred calendar and hold ceremonies around it and all sorts of classic stuff. Anyways, the calendar points to this :
"The Mayan Calendar seems to track a period of thousands of years whose end, some scholars say, points to a specific date on our Gregorian Calendar of December 23, 2012. The calendar, supported by local traditions and lore, tells that the ‘end of time’ or the end of this present cycle, will occur and will be forewarned by events such as natural disasters, warfare and general chaos. The end time is the end of this present Mayan age and the beginning of the next age to come. Many other cultures around the globe also have legends or knowledge of such an event coming to pass. The Hopi are very specific in their beliefs concerning the ending of the present Fourth World and our emergence into the Fifth World. "
That is there prophecy. The "Fourth World" will end and the "Fifth World".
And etinder, you said that Christ didnt write the bible, or Muhammond didnt write his prophecies in the Quran. This is all true.
But I just did a search through the Guru Granth Sahib, and I can not find anywhere where ANY Guru wrote "Khalsa will conquer the world" "Khalsa will rule all" and implying OUR Khalsa. "Raj Karega Khalsa".
If I'm wrong, please correct me, as I'm sure you guys are more familiar with the SGGS than I am.
The Samurai actually had similar war cries to "Raj Karega Khalsa"...it was along the same lines, that translated to "Samurai will never die, and conquer all"....I'm looking for the exact line reference now.
If the Guru's did not write anywhere in the SGGS that the "Khalsa will conquer all/the world/Raj Karega Khalsa"...than its the same thing as all the prophecies for the other religions.
Someone please search the SGGS into this matter.
What is Khalsa in this discussion ?
Maybe khalsa raj is not mentioned by Sri Guroo Granth Sahib Ji Mahraj but halemi raj is which i think is has the same ideals as khalsa raj, not sure of the exact thuk though. And as for the actual term "Khalsa Raj" i'm sure is mentioned in both Dasam Granth Sahib and Sarbloh Granth Sahib
I said the future of Sikhism is downhill, and as for the Khalsa/Sikh identity, it will die.
People began to object, Singhstah stated that the Sikhs have the hukam of the Guru, and the Khalsa will rule all (as opposed to dying).
I simply stated other older religoins/cultures, which have said the same thing, and have all withered away.
I do think this topic is getting a bit off track though...someone put it back on course ...or I should just stop posting on it.
And I'm pretty certain the ideals of "halemi raj" are the same as the ideals of a leader expressed in Christ by the Bible. These ideals should nearly be identical to ones expressed when someone refers to a supreme Buddha, or another Muhammond.
Khalsa Raj, is not the same thing as "The Khalsa will Rise and conquer all", or "Raj Karega Khalsa" for that matter.
Khalsa Raj is simply just terminalogy, it is not a prophecy. Khalsa Raj can exist today, but will not conquer anything.