Do Sikhs believe in Angels?

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by Amerikaur, Feb 26, 2005.


  1. Amerikaur

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    I visited a friend this evening who has her home decorated with lots of Catholic imagery. I was admiring a set of angel figurines that she had on display in her living room.

    She then asked me if my religion believes in Angels.

    I didn't know how to answer, other than "duhhhhhh...I'm not sure..."

    Does Gurbani say anything about the existence of Angels? I don't recall anything, but now I'm curious!
     
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  2. Arvind

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    Gurbani mentions words like dev, bhoot, prait, jakh, kinnar, pishach
     
  3. CaramelChocolate

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    I don't think Sikhism rules out the possibility of them, but because God alone is focussed on they wouldn't be of any importance in Sikhism.
     
  4. BabbarSher

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    Sikshism denies the existence of Heaven and Hell.

    In effect this would mean denying the existence of 'heavenly' beings like Angels and Satan.
     
  5. Amarpal

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    Dear Amerikaur Ji,

    We sikhs conceptualise God as EkOngkar i.e. the One. In Sikhi there are no dualities. The is One and only One.

    True, all entities that existed in the prevailing scripture in land of origin of Sikhi, find place in Gurbani as they have to be referred too and negated to make we Sikhs understand what is meant by One; this is what Gurbani has done.

    We believe in One; no dualities.

    With love and respect for all.

    Amarpal Singh.
     
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  6. vijaydeep Singh

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    Ek Oankar Wahiguru Ji Ki Fateh

    Das can say as per Akalustat that Devta,Adev,Jachh,Gardrab,turk Hindu,Nayre Nayre Deshan Ke Bhesh ko Prabhav hai.

    So they could be the human races from various regions of the earth.Or could be aliens from various part of the universe or indeed great people coming to present from future or Past.

    Or may be manifestations of Akal in physical form.like say as per traditions of Santan Sikhs,

    Akal takes the form of Brahma to create,Vishnu to protect,And Shiva to destroy.but all is Akal.May be there is no form of these trinity but they are addresssed as an attribute of Akal as creator,Protector and destroyer.In Vedas formless God is one who does various roles.Only in Puranas there are instance of there form.

    But it is not impossilbe either that Akal can not take a form of Vishnu or Shiva or Brahma.Akal can take Saguna as well as Nirguna roop.In Vachitar Natak they are termed as Brihad(all composing) and Sukhshma(Micro or real).
     
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  7. CaramelChocolate

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    With all respect, when am I actually going to find out if Sikhs believe God can take form or not? Some say he can, some day he doesn't. :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:
     
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  8. BabbarSher

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    Sikhs do not belive in Avtaarvaad and this shouldnt be confused with the concept of Sargun. Sargun means that his essence is present in all that is present in the world, in effect he has all the qualities while having none, something like light being both particle and wave in nature.

    But physically God is not born of sexual or asexual reproduction and does not take a physical form .. it is impossible to think that a physical form can contain God.
     
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  9. vijaydeep Singh

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    Ek Oankar Wahiguru Ji Ki Fateh

    Avtar in litteral sense means to land.So birth of a child is also an avtar of him.AS soul lands on earth.

    Sar Guna is not Saguna,Sar Guna is short of Sarb Guna.

    Sarb means all and Guna means quality.So as in Sanskrit language,Guna can be used both in plural and singular form so thats make a good case.

    Sar(b) Guna is God,who is having all Guna(Qualitis) as God is inn all So all qualities are bestowed in God.So God is Nir( without) Guna(Single quality).

    Then come concept of Saguna Sa(with) Guna(Qualitie(s)),There are entieis which have limited qualities of God.Like Jesus,Mohamud(PBUH) ,Rama,Krishan and not to forget Our Own Gurus and till today many great Gursikh.

    Say for example Our Gyani Jarnail Singh Sahib have a quality of fearlessness.Amarpal Singh Ji have quality of sprituality with humbleness.AmritPal Singh Ji have quality of knowlegde.Babber Sher Singh Ji have quality of logic.So they are not there own but of God.

    They are with(sa) qualties(guna) of God. Das here wants to say that as per his faith Khalsa is Saguna Avtar of Akal in Kaliyuga.

    Then weather it is possible to think or not to think that God ,who is in atom,in Heart,in mind,in universe can not be in physical form or not,that capabilty can be provided by God.As for God there is nothing impossible.For human who think that they can do something for them it is something possible or impossilbe for God everything is possbile.Das is yet to be like God by God mercy that that can say everything is possbile by him.

    But even inn human body if someone reaches the stage of Sarb Kala Samrath,All Art Capable,then there is heardly any need is left to do anything appearing to be impossilbe otherwise.Akal Bless.
     
  10. Sher Singh

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    i heard that Sikhs do belive in Angels. My dad like practically studies the ENTIRE SGGS, and he told me cuz i asked him that there r angels, otherwise known as "puri" or something. So i do think we believe in angels. if im proven wrong, so be it.

    WJKK WJKF
     
  11. BabbarSher

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    Thanks for the compliments Vijaydeep ..

    and more thanks still for a very nice and logically flowing post :)

    Sher Singh Ji:

    I would request you to ask your father for exact quotes as it would help the cause.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I could find the following references to Angels and Demons in Guru Granth Sahib JI

    #1. References to Azraaeel - The Angel of Death

    Page 315, Line 4 -- Guru Arjan Dev

    Azraa-eel, the Angel of Death, shall crush them like sesame seeds in the oil-press. ||27||

    ajraa-eel faraystaa til peerhay ghaanee. ||27||

    Page 953, Line 14 -- Guru Nanak Dev

    Azraa-eel, the Angel of Death, shall be appointed to punish them.

    ajraa-eel faraystaa hosee aa-ay ta-ee.


    Page 1019, Line 19 -- Guru Arjan Dev

    Azraa-eel, the Angel of Death, seizes and tortures them.

    ajraa-eel farhay farh kuthay.

    Do the above references then mean that there does exist and actual angel Azraaeel and sikhs belive in that.

    I think to understand this we need to recognise:

    The message of Guru Maharaj was not limited to a particular section of the society. It was a Universal Message for all. To get his point across Guru Maharaj used refernces to the popular current mythologies without ever compromising his message.

    If on the one hand he uses the word Azraaeel for people who were familiar with semitic beliefs and myths, he also used words like Kaal, Jamdoot and Dharamrai which could be easily interpreted by people believing in Hindu beliefs.

    Hence the world Azraael just presses home the point of death. The simple use of the word conveys a powerful message to people of semitic belifes and they are easily able to relate to the truth.

    Also if Guru Maharj belived in mythological beings such as Devs, he would recognise that they have partaken the mythological Amrit and now cannot die. However the references we find from Guru Granth Sahib paint aa different picture and suggest that Guru Maharaj never subscribed to such myths:

    Page 1267, Line 7 -- Guru Arjan Dev

    Shiva, Brahma, angels and demons, all burn in the fire of death.

    siv biranch asur sur jaytay kaal agan meh jartay.

    Bhagat Naam Dev Ji also says:

    Page 873, Line 17 -- Saint Nam Dev

    I have been transformed from a mortal being into an angel, in an instant; the True Guru has taught me this.

    nar tay sur ho-ay jaat nimakh mai satgur buDh sikhlaa-ee.


    Now is it that Bahagt Jee got transformed into an angel or Deevta as per popular mythology or is he talking about qualities that came to rest in him because of satguru's blessings. Think..


    Please also search for the word angels at www.srigranth.org and you will get a lot of links.
     
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  12. Saheb Singh

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    Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa ,Wahegur Ji Ki Fateh,
    Shiv-Shakti is wat mentioned in gurbani is the fusion of spirit with matter thus combination of Nirgun and Sargun roop but does not mean that Ajuni Sabang - out of rebirth and self existant has a form .Waheguru is Infinite consiouness which goes beyond Nirgun and Sargun roop.
    WBR
     
  13. Khojat

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    Dear AmeriKaur,

    Sat Sri Akal,

    Yes Sikhism does believe in Angels. There are references in the Gur Bani to such celestial beings. I am rather surprised to see how many people have no knowledge of this. The younger ones may not know but the older ones who have studied the GurBani should know.

    In So Dar, Raag Asa, First Mehl Sat Guru Nanak mentions clearly two beings Chitar and Gupat who record the deeds of men. These beings are Angels assigned with this Divine task by the Creator. One records the deeds that are visible to all (Chitar) and the other records that which is hidden (in thought or hidden action - Gupat). Their names themselves allude to the tasks which the All Mighty has betsowed upon them.

    There are other references to the Angel of Death. This is the Angels that, at the appointed time given by God, comes to take the soul away. The evil soul receives a blow on his head with Death's mace and the soul is bound and taken away in chains to face Judgement.

    The virtues soul is given great respect and is taken away with honour to God's Court. The name of this Angel is Az-raael. This same angel is also mentioned in the scriptures of other Faiths like Isalm and Judaism.

    There are other references to Divine Beings created by God to do his bidding. These beings could well be Angels. Sikhism however, though acknowledging the existance of Angels and other Celestial Beings, does not focus much on them.

    The crux of Sikhism and the core teaching of our Sat Gurus is the realisation of the Essence. The Essence of all life and all creation. The Essence is Truth, Love, Compassion, Mercy. The Essence is God himself. We are enjoined by our Gurus to search for and realise this Essence. Unlike other Faiths, the Gurbani has been specifically given to us inorder to achieve this objective. The Holy Bani is all about finding and realising God and becoming one with the Eternal.

    Best Rgds

    Khojat
     
  14. Khojat

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    Dear Babbar Sher,

    Sat Sri Akal,

    Sikhism and the Gurbani do not deny the existence of Heaven or Hell. Both exist as per the Bani. However the Bani implies that these should not be our focus. Our focus and effort should be put into realising the One God. We have to find Him. In order to find Him we have to walk in His path. It is the Sat Guru who shows this path to us. All of us, even the most evil can walk on this path and be Saved.
     
  15. pk70

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    Sat Sree Akaal Vihaydeep Singh ji

    I have been enjoying your posts, they are really interesting sometimes.
    Your current post is good at explaining the word sargun and nirgun; however the question asked by Amrikaur remains unanswered though Amarpal answered it with full simplicity Let me try to say a few things in this regard as per my limited knowledge.

    Answer to Amritpal is very simple “ Sikhs strictly believe only in one Supreme being and we revere Gurus who lead us to only HIM. Angeles, paryaan, bhoot prêt, devta all others have no reverence in Sikhism. Chritians unlike Sikhism strongly believe in angles same way as Hindus do in various superstitious things. In bible and Quran there are references about their existence, Sikhs are set free from all that., in Sikh sacred Scripture Guru Grath Sahib Ji, only there are only two who are revered with high esteem, AKaal ji and Gurus( who guide us to HIM.) References in Gurbani do not approve of any supernatural entity. About Hinds Gods or bhoot prêt, references are but in different context. Nanak panth is against incarnation Of Almighty. Let me take freedom of disagreeing with you with some of your views regarding Akaal and forms

    Vijaydeep ji, Satguru Nanak set us free 5 hundred years ago, I mean free from becoming slaves of different kind superstitious things, illusions and mythological delusions. Monotheism was being practiced before him also but people fabricated some things to grind their own axes. Even today it is sorry to say that some Sikhs are reducing Sikhism to ritualism ridiculously. . Why a Sikh needs to believe in any of the above said ? Sikhs are guided to Him and should only start trying to blossom true love for Him. Why fearing from others super natural powers when you adore Him and seek refuge in Him who created the world and all galaxies.
    Now come to sargun and nirgun. When understanding Gurbani, one must keep in mind the totality of Nanakian panth . Lets analyze reference in Gurbani in this context. In GGS Ji, there are numerous examples which state that He permeates in His creation or there is nothing without His presence, it doesn’t mean that he has taken any form(sargun), in your context with limited quality. In reality He is beyond birth, any one who goes/went through birth cannot be Him, may he or she can be like HIM because being enlightened by His grace. Big question can bother many of us then. How can He be in him/her, you or me when He is beyond birth?. Let me give reference from GGS Ji
    bwjIgr fMk bjweI ] sB Klk qmwsy AweI ] bwjIgr sÍWgu skylw ] Apny rMg rvY Akylw ]2] kQnI
    kih Brmu n jweI ] sB kiQ kiQ rhI lukweI ] jw kau gurmuiK Awip buJweI ] qw ky ihrdY rihAw
    smweI ]3] gur ikMcq ikrpw kInI ] sBu qnu mnu dyh hir lInI ] kih kbIr rMig rwqw ]
    imilE jgjIvn dwqw ]4]4] (655)



    || It is like a magician beats his tambourine, everyone comes to see the show., it (show) goes on but He enjoys the play all alone because others play it for Him || 2 || By preaching sermons, one’s doubt is not dispelled. People kept defining Him but failed. When Akaal enlightens some ones he becomes Gurmukh and he understands His play; in his heart Akaal ji glows || 3 || When the Guru grants even a bit of his Grace, one gets completely absorbed in the Lord. Says Kabeer, I am in love with Him; I have realized the Great Giver of the world,. || 4 || 4 ||

    HE never takes form but since He created the show, every thing in show belongs to Him.
    To understand His presence, take an example of air, it is every where but not seen; can be felt(realized). Some Sikhs quickly jump to conclusions and read the words as they appear instead of understanding meaning behind them. So when it is said in Gurbani “Gur meri pooja Gu Govind. Gur mera Parbrahm Gur Bhagwant……Gond Mehla 5”, It doesn’t mean at all that Guru is Him; actually it means Guru is like Him, Vijaydeep ji, it is compliment to Guru…..” In Asa Mehla 5 “ jina n vissrai Naam, se kinehya 11 bhedh n januh mool SAEEN jehya” Who never forget Him means who are just lost in His thoughts, doubltless they are like Him. This has made it clearer why Guru was honoured by calling him(they) Guru Gobind. In this Shabad, Sahib ji is also says further that he is saved by Guru by leading him to Akaal Ji.This happens in regular life also when dear ones are called in emotional language” you are my world, you are my everything” While being elevated in His love Satguru Sahiban, Bhgatas ji see Him in everybody in every where because His presence is there in others and in us as well. Because Sikhism starts with “ Ikk Onkar, Sattnaam,Kartapurakh, Nirbhuo Nirvair Akaalmurt Ajuni sem” How this basic principle can be violated ? So nothing should be thought or preached which goes against the basic principle of Sikhism. Of course He permeates in His creation. Think carefully, His creation is related to Him because He created it. And it is also His symbol. Symbol refers to attachment or a link to something. Enlightened personalities can have only two characteristic of AKAAL JI, those are, being fearless and being without animosity, all the rest of His characteristic are strictly represented by Him ONLY.

    HAR BISRAT SDA KHUARI Mehla 5

    Pk70
     
  16. Mikelall510

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    wow uneducated indian ppl
    im talking about the ppl that replied to you :]

    || 26 ||
    Where is that Gate, and where is that Dwelling, in which You sit and take care of all? The Sound-current of the Naad vibrates
    there, and countless musicians play on all sorts of instruments there. So many Ragas, so many musicians singing there. The
    praanic wind, water and fire sing; the Righteous Judge of Dharma sings at Your Door. Chitr and Gupt, the angels of the
    conscious and the subconscious who record actions, and the Righteous Judge of Dharma who judges this record sing. Shiva,

    Chitr and Gupt, the angels of the conscious and the subconscious who keep the record of actions,
    and the Righteous Judge of Dharma who reads this record, sing of You.

    || 3 || Even those who are served by the 33 million angelic
    beings, at whose door the Siddhas and the Saadhus stand, who live in wondrous affluence and rule over mountains, oceans

    || 2 || The angels, Siddhas, worshippers of Shiva, heavenly musicians, silent sages, Saints, priests,
    preachers, spiritual teachers and commanders.each and every one has left, and all others shall depart as well. || 3 ||

    Their Banis are sung by the angelic beings,
    and no one can erase them, O Siblings of Destiny! || 3 || The demon.s son Prahlaad had not read about religious rituals

    The angelic beings and the silent sages long for Him; the True Guru has given me this understanding. || 4 ||

    || 1 || FIRST MEHL: Faith, contentment and tolerance are the food and provisions of the angels. They obtain
    the Perfect Vision of the Lord, while those who gossip find no place of rest. || 2 ||


    THIRD MEHL: Serving the Guru, the Lord is obtained, when He bestows His Glance of Grace. They are
    transformed from humans into angels, meditating on the Naam, the Name of the Lord

    || 5 || 2 || SIREE RAAG, DEVOTEE KABEER JEE: Listen, O religious scholar: the One
    Lord alone is Wondrous; no one can describe Him. He fascinates the angels, the celestial singers and the heavenly musicians;
    he has strung the three worlds upon His Thread. || 1 ||

    This is Nanak.s prayer:
    .May my eyes behold the Lord, the Angelic Being.. || 1 || The Lord hears the anguish of the soul; He is the All-powerful and

    The King of the
    Angels of Death hunts down those self-willed manmukhs, over and over again. The manmukhs are false to their own selves;
    they feel no gratitude for what they have been given.

    || 1 || FIRST MEHL: Neither the angels, nor the demons, nor
    human beings, nor the Siddhas, nor the seekers shall remain on the earth.

    The gods, the Siddhas, the angels, the heavenly singers, the silent sages and the
    devotees sing Your countless Glorious Praises. Prays Nanak, please be merciful to me, O Supreme Lord God, my King. || 2 ||

    The angels, the seers and
    the silent sages search for the Ocean of peace, the Sustainer of the world. The mind becomes pure, and one.s face is radia

    FIFTH MEHL: The ghost has been transformed into an angel by the Creator Lord.

    Good enough?? lol

    GAUREE, KABEER JEE: He claims to know the Lord, who is beyond
    measure and beyond thought; by mere words, he plans to enter heaven. || 1 ||

    GAUREE POORBEE: Don.t wish for a home in heaven, and don.t be afraid to
    live in hell. Whatever will be will be, so don.t get your hopes up in your mind. || 1 ||

    || 3 || He is beyond the world of the Vedas, the Koran and the Bible. The Supreme King of Nanak
    is immanent and manifest. || 4 || 3 || 105 || AASAA, FIFTH MEHL: Tens of thousands of devotees worship and adore You,
    chanting, .Beloved, Beloved.. How shall You unite me, the worthless and corrupt soul, with Yourself. || 1 ||

    PAUREE: The
    followers of the Vedas, the Bible and the Koran, standing at Your Door, meditate on You. Uncounted are those who fall at Your
    Door. Brahma meditates on You, as does Indra on his throne. Shiva and Vishnu, and their incarnations, chant the Lord.s Prai

    He has 33,000,000 play-houses. His beings wander insanely through 8.4 million
    incarnations. He bestowed His Grace on Adam, the father of mankind,(Adam & Eve duh lol) who then lived in paradise for a long time. || 2 || Pale
    are the faces of those whose hearts are disturbed. They have forsaken their Bible, and practice Satanic evil. One who blames
    the world, and is angry with people, shall receive the fruits of his own actions. || 3 || You are the Great Giver, O Lord; I am
    forever a beggar at Your Door. If I were to deny You, then I would be a wretched sinner. Slave Kabeer has entered Your
    Shelter. Keep me near You, O Merciful Lord God . that is heaven for me. || 4 || 7 || 15 ||

    clever, O religious
    scholar. Meat is allowed in the Puraanas, meat is allowed in the Bible and the Koran. Throughout the four ages, meat has been
    used. It is featured in sacred feasts and marriage festivities; meat is used in them.

    According to the Hindus, the Lord.s Name abides in the idol, but there is no truth in either of these
    claims. || 1 || O Allah, O Raam, I live by Your Name. Please show mercy to me, O Master. || 1 || Pause || The God of the
    Hindus lives in the southern lands, and the God of the Muslims lives in the west. So search in your heart . look deep into your
    heart of hearts; this is the home and the place where God lives. || 2 || The Brahmins observe twenty-four fasts during the

    Any other questions I will be happy to answer :]

    Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
    Waheguru Ji Ke Fateh*

    May GOD most High bless you*

     
  17. spnadmin

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    Mikelall510 ji

    When you joined SPN you agreed to Terms of Service. These included the requirement that you post an entire shabad with the page number. This is a rule that is in place to prevent individual lines from Gurbani from being quoted out of context so that the effect is to mislead and miseducate the forum readers.

    Now respected Mikeall50 ji you have quoted more than a few lines without the shabad, and out of context. But you are a new member and so we are going to be lenient.

    And also let me point out why this rule is important to your post. Some of the verses, posted without shabads, come from parts of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib that were written by bhats who were Hindus. They were praising our Guru's in the language and metaphors of their religious traditions. So the mention of angels does not necessarily prove that Sikhs believe in angels but that Sikhs believe in the concepts that the bhats have written.

    Let me instruct you not to do this again.
    Thank you, aad0002
     
  18. singhini

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    I agree with sher singh...does it not say in the anand sahib da part...."pari -aah shabad gavan ayeaah"

    even the angels rejoice and sing when we connect and have union with god.
     
  19. singhini

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    [SIZE=+1]rwg rqn prvwr prIAw sbd gwvx AweIAw

    page 917 :)
    [/SIZE]
     
  20. Tejwant Singh

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    I have no idea about believing in angels, but I am blessed to have three angels in my life which is no belief but a fact, my wife Harsimran of 20 years, my daughter Jaskeerat, 18 who just finished her freshman year at Loyola Marymount where she is an honour student doing double majors in International Business and European History and my son Trimaan, 13 who will be participating in his first National debate which will be held in San Antonio. TX in June in 2 catagories, Individual oratory and the other one with his partner Justin.

    So one does not have to believe in angels when one lives among them.

    Tejwant Singh
     
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