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General Can a person of any race or skin color convert to Sikhism ?

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by mikejohnson2006, Dec 14, 2011.

  1. mikejohnson2006

    mikejohnson2006
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    Can a person of any race or skin color convert to Sikhism and become a Sikh ? Or is Sikhism only for one race or skln color ? Can a White Person or a Black Person or a Chinese Person convert and become a Sikh ? Is Sikhism a universal religion for all of humanity or humans ?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikhism
     
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  3. Ambarsaria

    Ambarsaria Canada
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    Mikejohnson2006 ji welcome to spn and your first post.

    1. Yes anyone can become Sikh
    2. No Sikhism is not race or skin color or any other ways a differentiator
    3. Yes White, Black, Chinese and all others too
    4. Yes it is for all humanity

    Answers in order of your post.

    Welcome again.

    Sat Sri Akal.
     
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  4. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    MikeJohnsonji,

    It all depends on which Sikhism you are talking about, there is a pure strain of Sikhi which is open to anyone, of any colour, and as Ambarariaji stated above, applies fully,

    However there is another Sikhi which is not so open, it is heavy in ritual, tradition, it follows the caste system, it is corrupt, sexist, and you may have to develop a taste for Bacardi or Scotch and learn how to dance like a drugged up bear, you may find yourself excluded from embracing this wonderful branch of Sikhi, with its required chanting of the holy word 'Izzat' (respect), and the constant repeating of the holy phrase 'log kya kehan ghai' (what will people say), as the entry requirements are quite limited. You may have to be content with just the rather boring pure strain........sorry.
     
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  5. Tejwant Singh

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    Sikhi requires internal conversion of a person irrespective of one's hue,creed or faith so one can become a Sikh.

    What do I mean by internal conversion?

    It means to be a pragmatist, no mechanical rituals to please some deity, accepting all humankind as one.

    Sikhi gives the follower the tools to breed goodness within which can be shared with all.

    For a Sikh, one can be a good Christian, a good Jew, a Muslim, Buddhist, Jaini etc etc provided they do not claim any monopoly on some God which is a fallacy because we all know there is only ONE SOURCE of ALL there IS. And if they spread the goodness they have attained through their religions to all without trying to convert them.

    Conversion is prohibited in Sikhi. Love sprouts from the within.

    Tejwant Singh
     
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  6. OneD10s

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    Harry Hall you wrote:

    However there is another Sikhi which is not so open, it is heavy in ritual, tradition, it follows the caste system, it is corrupt, sexist, and you may have to develop a taste for Bacardi or Scotch and learn how to dance like a drugged up bear, you may find yourself excluded from embracing this wonderful branch of Sikhi, with its required chanting of the holy word 'Izzat' (respect), and the constant repeating of the holy phrase 'log kya kehan ghai' (what will people say), as the entry requirements are quite limited. You may have to be content with just the rather boring pure strain........sorry.


    I think you are describing the culture which is attached to the majority of Sikh's from Punjab, and especially to these Sikhs who have migrated to the UK. Most who are not from this background seem to follow and practice sikhi very well!
     
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  7. Navdeep88

    Navdeep88 Canada
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    I agree with D1OS,

    Harry Ji,

    With all due respect, that description of vehmently non-Sikh things may cause confusion to a newcomer... even if they are said in sarcasm.
     
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  8. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    Gurfatehji

    In our quest for the search for Sacha Padshah, I feel it is important to define what is good, and what is bad.

    I feel it is important for a newcomer to be aware of all the things that can be presented under the Sikhi banner, and to be aware of what is social Sikhi and what is Bani.

    I do agree with your post, I apologise for my sarcastic nature, I should have been more succulent, or even succint.

    "I think you are describing the culture which is attached to the majority of Sikh's from Punjab, and especially to these Sikhs who have migrated to the UK. Most who are not from this background seem to follow and practice sikhi very well!"

    D10sji,

    Unless you are like Maiji, or Ishnaji, the probability is that you are descended from those Sikhs from Punjab, and still have ties there, so for a lot of us this culture cannot be shaken off. Sometimes I envy those that practice Sikhi in its purest form, without the tainting of tradition and culture
     
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  9. Mai Harinder Kaur

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    Just to clarify, my Dad was Punjabi and as a child I spent all my summers sweltering in India.

    My big advantage is that my Dad rejected most of that silly Punjabi stuff and made a conscious effort to give me a classical Western education. Lucky me! I got the good stuff of both cultures and missed most of the bad stuff, especially the bad stuff in Punjabi culture.
     
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  10. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    Maiji,

    Many thanks for clarification, I cannot help but visualise people, and in my minds eye when you have talked about him, I always imagined him looking like cuddly Guru Ka Singh ala you tube, much kudos to him for having the courage to use his wisdom to take a stand against the 'bad stuff' in Punjabi culture.
     
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  11. Mai Harinder Kaur

    Mai Harinder Kaur
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    My Dad was around 6 feet tall and built like a bull with a beard halfway down his chest. And he bellowed! (See http://mai-sometimes.blogspot.com/2006/11/and-they-bellow.html) He pretty much did as he wished and no one dared to stop him. Plus, of course, he had 7 seven sons to back him up. And one tiny daughter that no one wanted to cross ever.

    At the same time, he did look like a physically fit version of Santa Claus and was always very nice to my friends.
     
    #10 Mai Harinder Kaur, Dec 15, 2011
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2011
  12. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    thats some bellow, my grandfather used to bellow too, and was hugely sarcastic, I think I inherited the sarcasm... which brings us full circle lol
     
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  13. OneD10s

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    Harry Haller quote:D10sji,

    Unless you are like Maiji, or Ishnaji, the probability is that you are descended from those Sikhs from Punjab, and still have ties there, so for a lot of us this culture cannot be shaken off. Sometimes I envy those that practice Sikhi in its purest form, without the tainting of tradition and culture

    Yes you are right but it is my parents that are from that culture that has migrated from Punjab! Some of the things that they think is right or apart of Sikhi is from that Punjabi/Indian culture.

    But I disagree with you that "this culture cannot be shaken off", with my own researching and studying Sikhi that culture will not be practiced by me, or the next generation. I think our parents were seriously disadvantaged with education and now we can see that people are finding the correct way to practice Sikhi. I am sure when you speak to your friends and family and even (if you are a parent) your children. you will not be confusing them with all this cultural traditions.
     
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  14. Harry Haller

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    D10sji

    Although we are going slightly off topic here, in a sense we are not.

    When I was younger, I wanted to be a Buddhist, but looking back I did not even know that Buddhists do not believe in god, even now, someone will come in the shop and say that they are Buddhists, and I will say, ah, you dont believe in god, and they will say, errr......

    So in the same way certain people will flock to Sikhism because of what they have seen and heard from other Sikhs, but possibly have no idea about what being Sikh actually means,

    D10sji, I am intrigued by your post, I would be infinitely grateful if you could explain what your interpretation of the correct way to practice Sikhi is?

    Also, I disagree that things are getting better, I think things are getting worse with more Vedic practices, more superstition, more drinking, more drugs, more sexism, more casteism all creeping in, however, this is based on what I see and read, I do not get the chance to socialise much with my fellow Sikhs, so maybe I stand to be corrected, hopefully
     
  15. OneD10s

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    Harry Haller Ji,

    Lol not long ago someone said to me that they went to a Buddist Temple and asked God for something. Thinking about it now in my view that is probably right as God is everywhere, but they did not know that Buddists do not believe on God.

    To answer your question Harry Ji about my interpretation of the correct way to practice Sikhi, is to follow the teachings of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

    And WITHOUT (I do agree partly with you) what you wrote about it getting worse "Vedic practices, more superstition, more drinking, more drugs, more sexism, more casteism all creeping in" .

    I defiantly see Sikhi converts (who have found Sikhi from their own search) and second generation of these people practicing Sikhi in its purest form WITHOUT any of the afore mentioned.

    I apologies to go of topic but I think the problem lies much deeper, I really do believe the corruption and politics of India are trying to oppress the Sikh faith. For example only now in the year 2011 nearly 2012 are Sikh marriages going to be stopped being classed as Hindu marriages and be classed as Sikhs.
     
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  16. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    D10sji,

    thanks for your reply, I have no doubt the Indian Govt has its own agenda against 'traditional sikhs', obviously this does not apply to the various Deras that are in government favour, most of whom cannot see that they are just being manipulated for other means,

    I would be very interested in a few lines from you to sum up what you feel are the teachings of the SGGS, if only to compare them to mine,
     
  17. Inderjeet Kaur

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    animatedkhanda1

    Reverting to the topic, from what I know, no one converts to Sikhi, but anyone who meets a certain set of criteria is a Sikh. . There is no ceremony or statement of faith that one makes. Really it is not something the person does, rather it is a set of beliefs. The SRM says:
    I think that definition is inadequate in several ways, but it's what we have for now.

    I guess a parrot, however many times she squawks "Waheguru" will never be a Sikh, at least not in this lifetime.

    I think there are probably 4 ways one can come to Sikhi.

    1. Be born into a Sikh family and grow up learning it
    2. Study Sikhi and come to believe that it is true
    3. Have a set of beliefs and then discover that Sikh dovetails those
    4. Have a spiritual experience of Ek Onkaar. (This happened to someone I know, so it does happen.)
    I think for the most part, becoming a Sikh would be more a realization than anything else. That realization can come to anyone regardless of race or skin color or anything else.


    Being a Sikh in fact is a different subject from being accepted as a Sikh by the Saadh Sangat. There are certain elements in the Punjabi community who believe no one except a Punjabi can really be a Sikh. Such people are narrow-minded bigots who should examine there own commitment to Sikhi.


    :fish:
     
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  18. Ambarsaria

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    Inderjeet Kaur ji just a bit of look at Sikhism in numbers.
    Sikh Population 30,000,000
    Any human being who faithfully believes in
    i. One Immortal Being, 90% 27,000,000
    ii. Ten Gurus, from Guru Nanak Sahib to Guru Gobind Singh Sahib 81% 24,300,000
    iii. The Guru Granth Sahib, 73% 21,870,000
    iv. The utterances and teachings of the ten Gurus and 15% 4,374,000
    v. the baptism bequeathed by the tenth Guru, and who does not owe
    allegiance to any other religion, is a Sikh 1.5% 437,400

    I see very dangerous numbers based on the five tenants. About 1.5% (1/2 million) of total 30 million perhaps fully meet the five tenants.

    I used successive application of how many flow through from i ---> ii --> iii --> iv --> v

    Very gross approximation. Very problematic!

    Given the present thread happy bashing, it appears we are further excluding. Are we working towards inclusion or exclusion!

    For me anyone who even talked to a Sikh is part Sikh, who saw a Sikh is part Sikh, Who was born into a SIkh family is part of a Sikh, and so on. My list includes a lot than excludes or finds faults who are not there yet!

    Sat Sri Akal.
     
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  19. Ishna

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    This is probably off topic but what's the difference between:

    iii. The Guru Granth Sahib
    iv. The utterances and teachings of the ten Gurus

    Are there any utterances or teachings of our ten Guru Sahiban which are authentic and not included in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji?
     
  20. Ambarsaria

    Ambarsaria Canada
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    Ishna Bhain why you always ask the most difficult questions! Historic accounts as you perhaps know are not as well kept say compared to other religions like Christianity, Islam, etc., but it goes without saying that Guru jis teachings went beyond poetry. Now how much they wanted us to depend upon those is again a more difficult question.

    An air tight answer should come from one scholarly, which I am not. There are Sakhis but I cannot vouch as I am not a scholar. There are letters like Zafarnama and artifacts, how such relate to your question I am not sure of.

    Perhaps not too helpful but some sharing without digging in deep.

    Sat Sri Akal.
     
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    #19 Ambarsaria, Dec 16, 2011
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2011
  21. Inderjeet Kaur

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    Ambarsaria ji,

    The criteria for being a Sikh is merely a faithful belief in these things. Hence, especially for v.) I think your numbers are way too low. Most non-Amritdhari Sikhs do believe in Amrit Sanchar even if they haven't actually partaken of it for whatever reason.

    I do not find fault with those who "are not there yet." It's a long, long road and I imagine no two of us is at exactly the same place. The important thing is that we are headed in the same direction.

    It is nice to think that a bit of my Sikhiness rubs off on everybody I come in contact with.

    Sat sri akaal!
     
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