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Bhai Guriqbal Singh - Has he made a scientific discovery?

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by Randip Singh, Oct 2, 2009.

  1. Randip Singh

    Randip Singh
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    Sikhism Knowledges: Bhai Guriqbal Singh ji, combining sewa and kirtan, visiting US this week

    Is this fellow firing on all cylinders?

    He made a claim the other day, that was totally ridiculed by some learned people on Punjab Radio, that if you are suffering from a vitamin deficiency , the way to cure it, is to do Ardas over a bowl of daal and eat it, and it will cure you.

    Anyone else here this?

    Dr Gurdeep Singh on the Radio, totally rubbished his claims (rightly so).

    This kind of Pakhandhi Poona by Bhai's is not only irresponsible it is dangerous.:mad:
     
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  3. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Such insufferable FOOLS are also INVITED to MALAYSIA..by those who should know better since they undertook the task of IMPARTING GURBANI TEACHING to Children .
    What sort of Role Models are they ?? With thair talk of miraclous cures..putting seriously sick persons off medicines and into Tuk jaaps ..... reciting various Tuks ONLY...or his recent chhochha "Drama" of WRITING WAHEGURU repeatedly...50,000....100,000 times etc and getting Medals for that..and now this book on 52 ways sukhmani Sahib cures diseases !!..GRANTS WISHES....ha Ha ha...etc...am i the only one laughing ??
    He and his Chelas regularly make trips abroad...if the Punjabis can stand them..why should the Diaspora Sikhs follow suit ?? are we also that stupid ? IMHO Punjab with its hundreds of thousands of DERAS, and Marrhees and Samadhs and Pir Graves etc which are being POOJAED..prayed on..by "amritdharee" sikhs no less...???? amrtidharees ?? Yes the Banna wearing types who have ZERO SIKHI inside except what such babas put in.:down::down::down::down::down::down:
     
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  4. harbansj24

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    This claim of coarse has to be dismissed out of hand.

    Having said that, I wish to remind you that a few weeks back, we had discussed in this forum, the value of Ardas along with medicines. Because that puts the patient in a positive frame of mind, which in turn triggers beneficial biochemical reactions in him.

    A few days back a noted cardiac surgeon visited our place of work and made a presentation on cardiac care. He said that genuine sants were a great help to the patient both in the pre operative and rehab stages precisely for the above reasons. He said that they were more effective than even professional counselors!
     
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  5. Randip Singh

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    Ardas, Meditation etc has countless benefits. Slows heart rate, can stop anxiety etc etc. I used to use it just before I lifted heavy weights.

    In this instance, however, this pakhandhi is telling people to ignore medical advice.Ardas can help medicinal advice, but to ignore medical advice and just use ardas is irresponsible.

    I say good on Dr Gurdeep Singh for rubbing this "Bhai".
     
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  6. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    Harbans Ji and Randip ji,
    Gurfateh Jios.

    What this New fangled Baba "sells" is snake oil...that is not how Gurbani is to be used.
    Of course reading Gurbani, doingmeditation, performing daily Nitnem, sukhmani sahib, going to Gurdwara listening to kirtan, performing ardass..and keeping Guur Ji on ones mind ahs immesureable benefits...and cannot be dismissed out of hand..BUT this Guriqbal PAKHAND is not worth a second look.
    Guru har rai ji MAINTAINED a Very Famous Dwa Khanna---store house of Medicinal HERBS. In Fact so famous was this dwakhanna (Pharmacy) that The Mughal Emperor also used its medicines for his son Dara Shikoh..GURU JI gave him the appropriate Medicines..and didnt just send him away by saying..Repeat this TUK..or that I WILL do an Ardass for him..and thats enough..of course Guru Ji could ahve cured the most serious disease just by saying so..in an INSTANT..BUT he didnt..that is BREAKING NATURAL LAWS !! a miracle..against Gurmatt...so WHO is Baba Guriqbal..to suggest that he can do better than Guru ji Himslef !!
    That is why he was RUBBISHED so well by Gurdeep singh of radio Punjab and all his listeners who kept the phones ringing !!! Means that there are still Sikhs who use their BRAINS...:D:D:D
     
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  7. Hardip Singh

    Hardip Singh India
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    Gyanni jee,
    Than what was Guru Harkishan Sahib's miracle cure on citizens of Delhi. How we will explain it in this context.
     
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  8. spnadmin

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    Forgive my intrusion.

    Guru Harkrishan to the best of my knowledge was using common sense. The miracle was his steadfast devotion to his seva. In the end he died from devotion. Even today -- the simple fact is that tending with love is a big part of a cure.

    Death from smallpox is from high fevers and dehydration. Not from the microbes that cause it. The healthy (for the time) feared contact. So the victims died of dehydration and neglect, not from the small pox. Same would be true to day. His devotion, and his fearlessness in the face of death (literally) is what saved them.

    Guru Harkrishan ji is the person I will never be. This month is his Gurgaddi! Praise him.
     
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  9. harbansj24

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    Hardip Singh ji,

    I do not know.

    Well I can only guess that Guru Harkrishan sahib ji also must have used his psychological prowess (and his great credibility as a Guru) to put the patients in a positive frame of mind which in turn would have catalyzed proper treatment which I am sure he not have asked to be stopped (unlike reportedly as Bhai Gur Iqbal Singh)

    As I have said in my last post the medical community is also realising that they can work along with religious persons for a better cure. This can replace a placebo which also is known to have a better effect but the danger is that the patient may come to know about it and he may feel cheated. This can have a rebound effect on the patient.
     
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  10. Randip Singh

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    I think the posts above me have explained this adequately.

    The greatest miracle of all was turning Jackles into Lions and teaching the Sparrow to challenge the Hawk!

    Yet, we humans still want our Guru's to part the sea's? The miracle is you and I are here and our ancestors survived.

    Our Guru's always accepted Gods Hukam, and never interfered with it.

    Guru Harkrishan accepted it and eased peoples suffering and gave people the BELIEF, which can be worth more than a vaccine by itself.

    From a historical basis, I would be cautious. There are a lot of miracles attributed to the Guru's, yet when the evidence is examined, one finds it is unreliable.

    What this Pakhandhi Bhai is saying is he can interfere with God hukam. God created certain plants to be medicine. This man is saying your interfere with that hukam.
     
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  11. Tejwant Singh

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    In the fear of being immersed in me-ism once again, allow me to gather some courage and talk about myself. Some of you who may not know this, I am a V-Tach- Heart patient. I have a device pacemaker/defibrillator installed in my chest. It has been there since January 2003. It all happened when I was on my usual Sunday run of 7 miles. The device has given me a shock several times as its function when my heart beats shoot up beyond certain beats. It is the last resort.

    A month back, I was given the news that my heart has become much weaker and it is only pumping 35% where as a normal heart pumps 55% plus. I was told that my heart is of an 85 year old person.

    This did not shock me nor did it phase me.

    I had felt that something was wrong with it months ago during my walks when I used to get tired all of a sudden while walking for no reason and had to rest before continuing.

    When I went to see my Cardiologist, he told me the reason was that my heart would not work on its own so when it wanted to stop, the pacemaker kicked in when it went to 40bpm. I felt so tired for a couple of days that I could not even go up the stairs. That was the reason of my exhaustion. He also told me that if I had not had the device, I would be lying dead on the pavement. Then he programmed my device to pace at 55bpm which did not help much but I was able to walk. Lastly he programmed it at 70bpm and things are much better.

    I have to have the device changed next month. They are going to put a 3 wire device ( now it is a single wire) so that the electric current can come down from up whereas now, it is going from down to upwards like an anxious salmon.

    Since the device has been set on 70bpm ( The original intent was not to pace my heart when it was installed in the 2003 but only as a shocking device only when the heart raced up), I have been able to walk. I power walk 7 miles daily with 5lb weight on my each bicep, go over some steep hills and do it under 2 hours, 7 days a week,not bad for a young man with a heart of an 85 year old.

    I wanted to give this background before I came to the real part which encompasses Gurbani and its power.

    The moment I start walking at 3:45am every morning, by grace, a Shabad comes to my mind and then to my mouth which I start contemplating upon during my 2 hour solitary Galactic voyage. In between, I do my Nitnem without Jaap Sahib, which is done later on at home and then back to the Shabad. I feel relaxed, energetic and serene during this journey which makes me walk with my eyes half closed. These words can not express actually what beautiful feelings I go through. It is like" Gungei de Mithaee".

    I come home, record my bp and pulse and all seems fine for a person with a heart of an 85 year old.

    By the way, today's Shabad was " Tathi vahao nanh laghee, Parbraham Sarnaee. Chaugiradh hamare Raamkaar, Dukh laghei nanh bhai...."- Nothing wrong can happen when we have found the connection with Ik Ong Kaar by shedding me-ism. As Ik Ong kaar is omnipresent, hence, we are surrounded by His grace, then my brother, there is no pain or suffering because our Protector has given us the tools to shrug the negative forces off.....-.

    This Shabad has a lot of personal significance for my sisters and brothers and myself. Whenever we felt sick, fearful due to a bad dream, or any other negative forces that engulfed us, we always went to our Mum, lovingly called Amee ji. She used to make us lie down with her in bed and recite this Shabad again and again which made us feel better.

    So, Sadh Sangat, today's journey had a very special significance because I spent 2 hours chatting with my late Mum.

    Tejwant Singh
     
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  12. harbansj24

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    Tejwant ji,

    I hope your beautiful and openhearted example will help people to have more faith and acceptance of HUKAM (And not ask for scientific explanations all the time!)
     
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  13. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    I continue to be amazed...by SIKHS..who continue to demand that our GURU must also Stand up on a Mountain..spread His Arms and SAY..PART..and Lo and Behold the red Sea Separates...dry land appears while the Waves stand 100s Metres HIGH on Both sides..( Those who dont understand me get hold of a Copy of the Ten Commandments Film made in the 1950's which I saw absolutley free having been Paid for by my Catholic Missionary Teachers of the La Salle Brotherhood..and see How MAJESTIC MOSES looks parting the Red SEA..it is a Magnificent scene..!!!)...otherwise the House of Nanak looks a lot more PALE and BORING if comapred to Moses, Jesus, etc who can wake the DEAD..make Wine out of Plain Water...blah blah blah blah...

    Although there is absolutely ZERO EVIDENCE that Moses ever parted the Red Sea..( lrts give him the benefit of the doubt that he did..BUT then the RED SEA is NOT PARTED nay more ...END of MIRACLE...no matter how impressive it looks on the Huge Silver Screen)

    BUT Guru nanak Ji RAISED the LIVING DEAD...people who had been DEAD for nearly 1000 Yeras....people who obediently OPENED their MOUTHS when a Mulsim wanted to SPIT OUT his Chewed PAAN/Tobacco Juice....who obediently handed over their VIRGIN DAUGHTERS to the next Musslamaan that took a Fancy to them...who obediently gave up all knives, horses, whatever that was demanded of them...who were the LIVING DEAD..the pigeons...sparrows...the SHEEP among LIONS. GURU NANAK TRANSFORMED these Living DEAD to Rise UP..and become the NEW SUPER LIONS...the EAGLES...the Ones who RODE on Horses instead of leading them...who slaughtered the ZAALIM..the TYRANT instead of getting slaughtered...who BLOCKED the Darrah Khaiber..with their BLOOD...who being only 40 in number fought a MILLION..who became the SAVA LAKH SE EK Larraon...who were in Chamkaur..who were in the walls of Sirhind...who were in SARAGHARREE..who were in Harmandir Sahib in June 1984.

    THIS LIVING EVERLASTING MIRACLE is seemingly NOT ENOUGH..not "colourful"..they hanker after..a LAZARUS.arsiing from the dead...they wnat some water turning into wine..they want some black crows turn into SWANS...they want to see one of the Gurus disappear from the cave..and return alive after three days....they want a PANJA IN STONE..( Some one in Ladakh wants sikhs to come see a STONE that has Guru nanaks Jis BACK embedded in it..this huge stone was also rolled on to Guru nanak ji..and it fell on Guru Jis BACK...and so has His "back" embedded in it...???so IF Sikhs go to Panja Sahib..why they dont got o PITTH SAHIB ?? He asks ??)..they wnat to see a Live Cobra Snake giving shade..they want a Horse shaking its Hooves and making a ONE into a SEVEN..blah blah blah...( Akla Purakh HUKM that a lady has no issue...she begs the Guru and he agrees to give her ONE SON..But the Gurus HORSE decides to shake and the 1 becomes 7 !! and so the lady has 7 SONS !!).

    Guru Arjun Ji Sahib ran a Leper Colony ..Pingalwarras Bhagat Pooran Singh ran a Pingalwarra for many sicka nd mental cases...Guru har rai ran a Pharmacy..Guru Harkishan Ji wnet among the DELHI POOR during a Small POX EPIDEMIC...caring for the SICK who were SHUNNED...took care of hem..gave them succour..many RECOVERED...and many DIED..and Guru Ji HIMSELF CONTRACTED SMALL POX and succumbed to it. The REAL MIRACLE is WHAT Guurs did...what Pooran Singh DID...not what "happened" !!! Actually what did happen..NOTHING...Some of the sick..died..some recovered. PERIOD. The REAL MIRACLE is some one CARED.

    People keep on referrign to the PLACEBO..as if THAT SUGAR PILL CURES...
    The Placebo is NOT GIVEN OUT AS A SUGAR PILL...in full knowedge to the patient...The PLACEBO is in SECRET. Actually its part of a DRUG TRIAL..carefully carried out in an experimental environment...not simply given out ad hoc. SO NO ONE "KNOWS" how many in a TRIAL GROUP..get the OLD DRUG..the NEW DRUG..and the Placebo that looks exactly like the Drug tablet. ONLY yhe Scientists/Lab running the TEST/Experiemnt know who is getting what...and the Results are than examined.
    In order for GURBANI to be used as a PLACEBO...the Patients must NOT KNOW..who is being prayed for...who is being ardass for...it must be in SECRET.
    The RESULTS will be the same...some will get cured even IF "CURSED"...some will get cured if prayed over...and soem will get cured even if nobody even BOTHERED about them. There are Poor patients in Govt Hospitals that have no relatives, no dependnats..charity cases...about whom no one cares whether they die or get cured...they too get CURED in the same NUMBERS....as those in FIRST CLASS WARDS with MULTIPLE DOCTORS visiting them !!!..and many DIE in thsoe First Class Wards too..with a multitude of Doctors and surgeosn WRINGING THEIR HANDS..and GRANTHIS who did hundreds fo Akhand Paaths/ardasses in hazoor Sahib/Harmandir Sahib/Patna Sahib...and every where else as the ardass costing a few thousand RUPEES is PEANUTS for these SUPER RICH. One Cancer patient i know was having FIVE Ardasses being said at all the FIVE TAKHATS DAILY FOR A YEAR.and Continous 151 akhand paaths at Nanaksar......he still DIED..in the Same Exact way my staunch Amrtidharee student Iqbal kaur died from Cancer !!!( Iqbal was kind of PLACEBO..since she never knew that she too had Ardasses being said for her at FIVE TAKHATS by anonymous persons )..BUT the REALITY was that just like the PLACEBO ALSO FAILS TO CURE EVERYONE..Iqbal also passed away just like the Super Rich buisneesman SIkh who had so many akhand paaths ardasses said for him. For ME..the REAL MIRACLE was watching how the Amrridharee Iqbal kaur BATTLE the CANCER..always in Chardeekalla...always walking around the Ward helping others even though in great pain...giving away her Personal Fan to another old aldy while she herself was feeling so hot from the drugs being pumped into her...how she recited Waheguru waheguru instead of screaming in PAIN...and the ULTIMATE MIRACLE was she "cured" so many of so much haumaii..lobh..hnakaar..amde soe many friends..solved a few quarrels..etc etc and at the last moment she "KNEW" that her time was up...she was so well PREPARED to go.................BUT many "SIKHS" wnated the MIRACLE of seeing her RUN OUT of the TERMINAL CANCER WARD..all cured so that they could shout..waheguru..MIRACLE..i told you so..paath kariah see..dekho..and the DVD of Bhardwaaj who was "cured" of cancer in harmandir sahib..( BUT WHO DIED LATER )..was distributed...BUT HUKM was NOT that way...but who cares about HUKM anyway..its all BORING ?? The "Pakhandi baba" that was waving his Holy hands all over Iqbal..pulling/sucking out the Cancer...while reciting some TUKS from Gurbani..was DISAPPOINTED...Guru ji never performed a "miracle"????? in the end he got away with an excuse...koi kamee reh gayee honne eh...sucham..safaii..koi shabad galat..your guess is a sgood as any...she walks..its a MIRACLE..the Baba Has Miraculous powers...........she DIES..its somebodys FAULT ???Ha ha ha.:advocate::advocate::advocate:
     
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  14. Randip Singh

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    Indeed Gyani ji,


    • Jesus made water into wine...oh we Sikhs must think of some miriacle for our Guru's
    • Moses Parted the seas....oh we Sikhs must think of some miracle for our Guru's
    • Mohammed splits the moon, oh we must think of some miracle for our Guru's
    • Hindu Gods have performed x zillion miracles, oh we must think of some miracles for our Guru's.
    • Buddha walks on water...oh we must think of some miracle for our Gurus.

    We Sikhs must be careful not to start including our Guru's in the "race" to have miracles attributed to them to show that they were divine. The beauty of Sikhism is we do not attribute miracles to them. They did not change the laws of nature, but worked within them, and still achieved a miracle. The miracle of Sikhi!
     
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  15. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    Randip Ji,

    Jesus made water into wine...Guru Gobind Singh made water into AMRIT
    Jesus raised one Dead Lazarus...Guru Gobind Singh Raised FIVE PIAYARE..Lazarus is long dead..But the FIVE live on...in their Hundreds of Thousands all over teh Globe..
    Moses parted the seas..Guur nanak-Guru Gobind Singh JOINED the PARTED Castes into ONE KHALSA
    For all their "miracles" which broke Natural laws...for a short while..Our GURUS wrote GURBANI of such a GREAT LENGTH of 1429 Pages...Dhur Ki Bani Word of The Creator...another Everlasting Miracle perfectly in tune with natural laws...No one else has any WRITING which He wrote Himself..or one which PRAISES ONLY and ONLY the CREATOR in such magnificent language set to Music and Poetry...

    It saddens me immensely that we SIKHS OVERLOOK all these Genuine MIRACLES which no one has performed or even copied...and go for mere sleight of hand types..Ridhian Sidhian which GURBANI ROUNDLY CONDEMNS !! as Avraaa Saadh !!! but still the Sants and snake oil sellers have made so much impact over the past century or so..that we find sikhs who beleive the Gurus are "less" IF we cannot find a miracle for them...The MIRACLE OF SIKHI is INVISIBLE to such "sikhs"....how sad...very very sad...:eek::eek::eek:
     
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  16. japjisahib04

    japjisahib04 Kuwait
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    Giani Ji

    This pakhandi baba is not an easy one. In response to spokesman revelation, he bounced back with following:
    A charitable trust to help widows
    Pawan Kumar
    [​IMG]
    Widows receive ration from Mata Kaulan Bhalai Kendra on the Tarn Taran road in Amritsar on Sunday. — Photo by Rajiv Sharma



    Nearly 1,000 widows are getting free ration worth Rs 4 lakh from Mata Kaulan Bhalai Kendra (MKBK) — a charitable trust established with the funds collected from “kirtan darbars”. Bhai Guriqbal Singh of Gurmat Satsang Sabha, who has been organising “kirtan darbars” in India and abroad, established the trust, especially for widows, through the collections during the “kirtan darbars”.

    The kendra disburses ration on monthly basis as per the need and quota of widows and their families. The trust also distributes cloths twice a year to them. Not a single member of Bhai Iqbal Singh’s family is its trustee.
    Established in 1993 with 170 widows, the MKBK was converted into a trust in 1994. It is being run by the persons who are dedicated to the service of humanity. The trust has maintained all records regarding widows. It distributes stationery to the children of widows studying in schools. For registration, forms are accepted on first 10 days of January and July and every year about 100-150 new members are being added to the list, said Mr Mohan Singh and Mr A.P.S. (Binny) Chatha, ‘sevadars’ of the kendra.
    Every Thursday , Bhai Guriqbal Singh, performs “kirtan darbar” in houses of the Civil Line area in which thousands of people participate and money collected during these darbars goes to the trust.
    The trust will open Mata Kaulan public school for the children of widows in near future in which about 1,300 children can get education free of cost. The school, which is under-construction, will have the CBSE pattern. School uniforms and stationery will be provided by the trust. Mr Mohan Singh said the school would also have a canteen with eatables sold on minimum prices. He said the school would train students in horse-riding besides teaching them principles of Sikhism. He said the children of poor and needy families could also get education in the school.
    There is a computer and three stitching and embroidery centres running under the trust. All courses in these centres are recognised by the government.
    The MKBK is also contemplating to open a school for special children. A charitable hospital, Mata Kaulan Bandi Chhor Charitable Hospital; adjoining its main office on the Tarn Taran road, is also under construction.
    The trust is making a film “Anokhe Amar Shaheed Baba Deep Singh Ji”. Mr Chatha, who is the in charge of the project said the film was based on life, teachings and sacrifice of Baba Deep Singh for Sikhism.
    Mr Chatha said the Dhan-Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Satkar Committee had been constituted by the kendra to take old ‘swarups’ of Guru Granth Sahib in a special van to Goindwal Sahib or Khushalur in Dehra Dun for their cremations as per Sikh rituals. He said the kendra had recently laid the foundation stone for Mata Kaulan Niwas Sarain, near Gurdwara Atal Rai, for visitors.
    http://www.tribunei ndia.com/ 2004/20040405/ punjab1.htm# 12

    Best regards
    Mohinder Singh Sahni
     
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  17. Randip Singh

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    Thanks for the info, but I cannot help but feel there must be an ulterior motive for this.

    More followers to fill his coffers? Iam sure for every Rupee he gives, he will get another 4.
     
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  18. Randip Singh

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    You hit the nail on the head yet again Gyani Ji!
     
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  19. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    Mohinder Singh Sahni Jio.Gurfateh.

    Gurbani already made this clear..ek adhi changee kareh...in Asa di vaar...one "right" doesnt make many WRONGS right !!
    Many Babas have such so called "charitable Trusts"..one in the news on Internet is Baba Jaswant Singh of Nanksar who has a Gurdwara Amar Dass in Leicestor UK and Charitable Trusts runnign hopsitals/dental colleges in India...and a whole lot of utter rubbish besides .
    This sort of charity is icing...the baba's ghee malaii is elsewhere..safely stashed away...after all what charity as it is charawwa anyway..not the Babas Earnings !! Guru Nanaks Langgar didnt run on charawwa..it was run from his farming earnings...
     
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  20. Tejwant Singh

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    1.Where are the honchos of the Akaal Takhats when you need them when snake oil is being sold in place of spreading the Gurmat message?

    2.Where are these people with long cholas who are supposed to be the care takers of Sikhi?

    3.Why are they afraid to come out of their self created cocoons to protect Sikhi interests?

    4.What happened to fulfilling their duties as Sikhs which is their kirat?

    Until and unless drastic changes are made in the infrastructure of care taking of Sikhi based on Gurmat, the Takhats will be held by those who have no idea what Gurbani preaches and they will be immersed in the pool of Ego rather than Amrit Sarover the true GPS for their guidance.

    These kinds of pakhandi Babas are dangerous to Sikhi and its values and they should be stopped under all circumstances.

    Tejwant Singh
     
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  21. gurvinder_janu

    gurvinder_janu
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    Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
    Respected Jios

    Here's one more topic to ponder upon

    http://www.gurunanakhealing.com/Speech of S Hardial Singh.pdf

    "All the Guru Sahiban never fell victim to any ailment, all such stories about them are false and misleading. ( A revealing speech by S. Hardial Singh IAS [Retd], founder Sarab Rog Ka Aukhad Nam Mission.)"

    Regards

    Bhul chuk lai muaafi ji
     
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