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bani and significance to sikhs

Discussion in 'Gurmat Vichaar' started by simpy, Dec 11, 2007.

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  1. simpy

    simpy
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    The subconscious(the real self) does everything according to our actions(WITHOUT JUDGING)- what we see, read, hear, think, as well as according to our past karma......and as we read or listen Bani (irrespetive of correct pronunciation or correct knowledge of the content or raag/naad)it gets imprinted in antahkaran as it is, acting like SUBLIMINAL MESSAGE.



    All that needed is repeated action ....... Naam Simar Naam Simar Eho Tero Kaaj Re..... Behndyan Udhdyan Hari Naam Dhyavay..... AS BANI IS GURU- Guru Kee Seva is reading, reciting, and contemplating Gurbani.

    inspite of all the ifs and buts of the conscious mind, Gurbani keeps on writting the SACH deep within everytime it is being read or heard or recited by a PRO or a NON-PRO........ Then SACH does it's part -DEEP CLEANSING(changes our present behaviour and clears our past karma. brings knowledge and contemplation. Pher Jhim Jhim Amrit Barsadaa Hai...)........


    Gurbani is from the highest source- INFINITE TIMES BIGGER THAN NAAD etc.............NIRANKAAR- jo antar bahar sab jagah hai

    that's why....Dhan Dhan Guru Sahib Ji Says -Parya Anparya ParamGat Paavay..........



    IRESPECTIVE OF A PERSON'S CULTURE/COLOR/SPOKEN LANGUAGE/KNOWLEGDE, IF SOMEBODY IS PASSING BY LOOKING AT A WALL HANGING THAT HAS A SHABAD INSCRIBED FROM DHAN DHAN SIRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI, TWO THREE TIMES A DAY, EVERYDAY, OVER SOMETIME YOU CAN NOTICE A DIFFERENCE IN THIS PERSON'S THINKING ABOUT GOD'S EXISTANCE.












    humbly asking for everybody's forgiveness.
     
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  3. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    When the world around you is going crazy, when there is sickness, accidents, sadness, unpredictable and painful events -- and you repeat, read, reflect on just a few lines of Gurbani-- you receive the gift of peace -- every time.
     
  4. ekmusafir_ajnabi

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    Sikh80 ji



    One appears to have transformed in a very short time from a SEEKER to a PREACHER and have begun making Kachi Bani.statements. If you want to progress then best stay a seeker.

    Our Gurus have expressed their feeling and experiences in Gurbani. Without correct pronunciation and punctuation you will fail to understand the feeling of our Gurus and will be unable to relate to their experience. Gurbani is Mantar based. It is vital that you learn to pronounce the words correctly and learn the punctuation else it will be of no benefit. Failure to do so will lead you to draw incorrect meanings from the Shabads.

    By understanding Bani with your head, will bring you closer to the Guru and your heart will begin to flutter with love.

    What you cannot understand, you cannot feel.


    Action in a Conscious state takes a very long time to reach sub-conscious and to rebound back. What one sees, reads, hears, thinks is never done in a conscious state. It is done in auto mode so it is unlikely to reach ones subconscious. Especially what has not been understood and felt.



    Why contemplate - You cannot contemplate without understanding and at the same time you say below that understanding is not necessary!


    From your statement, are we to conclude that our Gurus have wasted their precious time in developing the language and for writing Bani in Raags.? Soooooo sad.

    One still appears to be lost! :unsure:


    Bani will stay behind Only Naad will go forth.



    So much contradiction and wishy washey statements.



    Pehlaan hi akal wali gal karo, phir sorry sorry kari jana. :)

    Ekmusafir_ajnabi
     
  5. Sikh80

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    Ek Musafir ji,
    ssa,

    Very many thanks for guiding us. I shall try to take the points stated by you as an advice. AS the matter has been taken from the site of Sikhnet I beleived that the same would be 100 percent research based. However, it appears that it may not be the case. Thanks once again for your valuable input. These are some of the 'tuks' that describe the attributes of Bani. I had stated these in the opening lines of the post as well. In any case it is eulogisation. Bani has been stated to be Naam itself.


    Bani is From True Guru
    siqgur kI bwxI siq siq kir jwxhu gurisKhu hir krqw Awip muhhu kFwey ] (308-5, gauVI, mÚ 4)
    O GurSikhs, know that the Bani, the Word of the True Guru, is true, absolutely true. The Creator Lord Himself causes the Guru to chant it.

    2. Naam thru. Gurbani
    gur kI bwxI nwim vjwey ] (362-11, Awsw, mÚ 3)
    Through the Word of the Guru's Bani, the Naam resounds;

    3. Remain in Self
    inrml bwxI inj Gir vwsw ] (362-18, Awsw, mÚ 3)
    Through the Immaculate Bani of the Word, the mortal dwells within the home of his own inner self.

    and
    nwnk haumY mwry sdw audwsw ]4]6]45] (362-19, Awsw, mÚ 3)
    O Nanak, he conquers his ego, and remains forever detached.

    ihrdY suix suix min AMimRqu BwieAw ] (366-11, Awsw, mÚ 4)
    Constantly listening to the Ambrosial Gurbani in the heart, it becomes pleasing to the mind.
    There are also many other attributes that have been stated in SGGS JI. I shall post it as and when I come across these lines. Your analysis is objective. One will have to be vigilant while quoting from the sikhnet.

    Thanks Once again.
     
  6. Sikh80

    Sikh80
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    Bani, Naam and Recitation

    It was on[5-12-07]that the katha of Gyani Maskeen ji was relayed . In his ‘parvachan’ he stated many things but I am quoting only that is relevant to the thread.

    After quoting many ‘tuks’ from SGS ji he made an observation that entire Bani is ‘Naam’ as it is the word of GOD. One can,therefore, concentrate on the recitation of the bani. It can be done in two ways:

    • Either by reciting the Bani like Ajapa jap.
    • Or By reading the bani aloud so that it is heard by the reader.
    OR

    In case it is found difficult then one should do ‘Naam jaap’/simran/meditation on the word ‘waheguru’. He had stated clearly that without this there is no escape of Sikh. One should devote as much time as possible as life is not very predictable.
    I am giving below some ‘tuks’ from Granth sahib ji in this regard:

    • GurSikhs, know that the Bani, the Word of the True Guru, is true, absolutely true. The Creator Lord Himself causes the Guru to chant it.[308-5]
    • Through the Word of the Guru's Bani, the Naam resounds[362-11]
    • Singing the Kirtan of the Lord's Praises, the Naam abides within the mind.[363-3]
    • Constantly listening to the Ambrosial Gurbani in the heart, it becomes pleasing to the mind.[366-11]
    • Through Gurbani, the Incomprehensible Lord is comprehended[366-12]
    There are many sweet quotes from the Granth Sahib ji.
      • The One Lord is pervading and permeating deep within the heart; with your mouth, recite the Ambrosial Hymns of the Guru.[366-12]
      • Gurbani is the jewel, the treasure of devotion.[376-14]
      • Singing, hearing and acting upon it, one is enraptured.[376-15]
      • Embrace love for the Word of the Guru's Bani.[387-13]
      • The Kirtan of the Lord's Praise is my Support; this wealth is everlasting.[398-14]|
      • Those whose minds are pleased with the Word of the Guru's Bani, drink in the Ambrosial Nectar again and again.[449-14]
      • Servant Nanak chants the Glorious Words of the Guru's Bani; through them, one is absorbed into the Naam, the Name of the Lord. [494-4]
    Waaho! Waaho! is the Bani, the Word, of the Formless Lord. There is no other as great as He is.[515-17]

    One may post the 'tuks' related to Bani.
     
  7. simpy

    simpy
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    SO in your 'vadmulla' opinion BANI JO NIRANKAAR HAI will be staying behind

    and Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Sahibaan Ji is Telling us time and again-


    Vaho Vaho Bani Nirankaar Hai Tis Jevad Avar NA KOEEeeeeee..............

    Bani Guru Guru Hai Bani Vich Bani Amrit Saarey..............

    Pothee Parmesar ka thaanv..........


    AND DHAN DHAN SACHE PATSHAH DHAN DHAN SIRI GURU RAAM DAAS JI DE PAAVAN BACHAN NE:

    ਕੋਈ ਗਾਵੈ ਰਾਗੀ ਨਾਦੀ ਬੇਦੀ ਬਹੁ ਭਾਤਿ ਕਰਿ ਨਹੀ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਭੀਜੈ ਰਾਮ ਰਾਜੇ ॥

    it is on Panna # 450, If God is not pleased by singing of Him by sound current of Naad- HOW CAN ONE EVEN THINK THAT only naad go forth.....

    AND DHAN DHAN SACHE PATSHAH DHAN DHAN SIRI GURU NANAK DEV JI DE PAAVAN BACHAN NE:

    ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ॥ ਨ ਭੀਜੈ ਰਾਗੀ ਨਾਦੀ ਬੇਦਿ ॥ ਨ ਭੀਜੈ ਸੁਰਤੀ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਜੋਗਿ ॥ ਨ ਭੀਜੈ ਸੋਗੀ ਕੀਤੈ ਰੋਜਿ ॥ ਨ ਭੀਜੈ ਰੂਪੀ ਮਾਲੀ ਰੰਗਿ ॥ ਨ ਭੀਜੈ ਤੀਰਥਿ ਭਵਿਐ ਨੰਗਿ ॥ ਨ ਭੀਜੈ ਦਾਤੀ ਕੀਤੈ ਪੁੰਨਿ ॥ ਨ ਭੀਜੈ ਬਾਹਰਿ ਬੈਠਿਆ ਸੁੰਨਿ ॥ ਨ ਭੀਜੈ ਭੇੜਿ ਮਰਹਿ ਭਿੜਿ ਸੂਰ ॥ ਨ ਭੀਜੈ ਕੇਤੇ ਹੋਵਹਿ ਧੂੜ ॥ ਲੇਖਾ ਲਿਖੀਐ ਮਨ ਕੈ ਭਾਇ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਭੀਜੈ ਸਾਚੈ ਨਾਇ ॥੨॥ {ਪੰਨਾ 1237}

    Jis Sach Nu Tusi Rijha Nahi Sakde Jis Naad Naal Kis Tarah Uh Naad Tuhanu Agge Le Ke Jayaga or will be able to go forth itself......

    WAHEGURU RAKHA EKMUSAFIR JI, TUSI BANI TO ITNE AJNABI HO...... Maaf Karna
    myself, Neechan to vee Neech Haan par jad koi Guru Sahib Di Beadbee kare te sevkaa nu awaaj chuknee paindee hai, ohi koshish hai, only making the issue clear for those who BELIEVE IN GURU JI and trying to understand the truth


    Only that mind can think of such a statement " Bani will stay behind Only Naad will go forth." who limits DHAN DHAN GURBANI to mere poetry in some worldly language, Bani is INFINITE mere veer: THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH. Dhur Kee Bani/Sachi Bani is THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH how can the absolute truth stay behind: GIVE ME ONE EXAMPLE FROM DHAN DHAN GURBANI, PLEASE.

    And ITS SUBLIMINAL EFFECT CANNOT BE IMAGINED IN ITS TOTALITY, unlimited time is needed to write that.
    Only that person can understand it to WHOM HE HIMSELF MAKE IT UNDERSTOOD (BUJHAAEE).
    You must have read Dhan Dhan Guru Sahib De Bachan- GUN GAAVAN DEH BHUJHAAEE.......
    One who understands it with the Divine Bliss hear it in EVERY SOUND, see it in EVERY VISIBLE OR NON VISIBLE THING, feels it in ROM ROM and HAR KINKE CH...........................
    ALSO ABSOLUTELY POSSIBLE ------Bin akhkhee dekhna, bin kanni sunnana.................


    Parmatma da Daas sadaa hi Parmatma Da Das hi rehnda hai, 'seeker or preacher' these identities are important to those who only 'talk' or 'strongly act to walk the path', a person who walks the true path has NO IDENTITY (CRISIS) ISSUES. He/She always keeps his/her plate the lowest mere veer. Tusi thokar maro, khillee udavo, gal naal lavo, does that matter!!!! it will only effect the doer, not the subject.....

    EK TUHEE EK TUHEE

    SEVAK NU HAR PAASE MALIK DA HI DIDAAR HUNDA HAI


    humbly asking for everybody's forgiveness
     
  8. simpy

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    THIS IS THE TRUE FAITH

    Dhur Ki Bani Aaee Tin Saglee Chint Mitaaee



    humbly asking for everybody's forgiveness
     
  9. Randip Singh

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    Ekh Musafir before I thought you were misguided and egotistical, from what you have written above I see you are just plain nasty!:shock:
     
  10. simpy

    simpy
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    IK HOR PAR LAO SARE:

    Dhan Dhan Bhagat Kabir Ji De Paavan Bachan:

    ਨਾਦੀ ਬੇਦੀ ਸਬਦੀ ਮੋਨੀ ਜਮ ਕੇ ਪਟੈ ਲਿਖਾਇਆ


    So all types of Jogies- who believe in sound current, who belives in karam kaand, datt mat de jogi who sing 'alakh niranjan', who practice silence: ALL ARE FAVORITES OF JAMDOOT...........................



    humbly asking for everybody's forgiveness
     
  11. drkhalsa

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    Surinder Kaur ji

    Welcome back !
    Its really nice to read post from you again !

    Ekh
    But Musafir ji does not think so I guess


    Musafir ji control your wild emotions as this advice of your applies to everybody Including you and me
    So take care before writing such uneccesary Personal Comments


    Jatinder Singh
     
  12. Sikh80

    Sikh80
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    WE should have some guidelines where by personal scaths are banned.
     
  13. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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  14. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    Ekmusafir Ji and Surinder Ji,

    I believe this sudden burst of extra energy you both have - is a spill over from another discussion from another forum. One such forum takes you through an imaging cycle.

    For the rest of us, we should give credit to both of them as they are advanced students who often forget basics. Something led both of them back to SPN at the same time. Or rather, they decided to break their silence after a subliminal nudge:-

    Imagine that you're in a state of total confusion and that you've stopped thinking about where you are supposed to go next. Time is not important anymore and you're in a relaxed state, still confused. Then you count from 10 to 1 and on each counting you begin to close your eyes.
    You see me in your imagination where I am conducting a "clarity of mind" class. You willingly join the class by occupying one of the rear empty seats.
    I wave my left hand and point out the reasons why you may be in a state of confusion. And I wave my right hand giving you pointers on how you have been clear and sure of yourself. Call it Causal cleansing. Cause and effect are at play here. If you react too often on the words of others, you become effect. So causal cleansing helps you to be cause rather than effect.
    The reason why you are in my class is because you know I can help you. And take it from me that you want to be in control of your emotions as much as you want my assistance.

    Ekmusafir and Surinder are also in the class, pretty much relaxed and going through this causal cleansing process. How do I help myself when I'm out there dealing with the uncertainities of my marriage life ? asked Dip - another important student who ran as fast he could to be the first to be seated. I gave him my email address because he wanted to give me the feedback from time to time. This is a good subliminal message, good for mind, body and soul - to give you angel-like qualities and allowing you to come forward via your heart more often - being more confident and sure of yourself.
    The principal of the school told the class to keep focused on the theme - aman and chain - which must be reflected in our speech and choice of words.

    After the principal's short visit, I continued to address the cleansing of the mind and how to break away from the chains of Maya - anger, ego and over-attachment. There were smiles on each and every student's face and the class ended by ending the imaginative technique - snapping out at the count of 1 - 2 - 3.

    Santokh
     
  15. simpy

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    Respected Santokh Ji,

    The topic i commented on was bringing importance to naad and raag more than the truth-BANI.

    As me neech stated before, i have retired myself from active participation on this forum long time back, and may not be back for a long time.

    If my words hurt anybody or bring any conflict, I AM EXTREMELY SORRY FOR THE INCONVENIENCE.

    And it is not clear to me what basics you are reffering to???? I will greatly appreciate if you state those basics clearly, and thanks in advance for pointing those out.....


    me neech merely stated the same thing what Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Sahibaan Ji is telling us time and again, if that task refers to be as 'forgetting the basics' at this forum, i am sorry i might have misread the name of the forum. as far as me neech understand, a sevak must share and spread his/her Master's WORD (the Truth) to the humanity, may be that is a crime/forgetfulness of basics/disobedience here on this forum......

    If any forum rules are disobeyed please refer to them clearly as me neech couldn't find any. may be i dont understand the language of this forum......

    THE LINES I PICKED - state clearly that there is propaganda against Gurbani. If you want that to be untouched I AM EXTREMELY SORRY, then this forum should be named as ANTI SIKH PHILOSOPHY.NET......

    FYI Santokh Ji, i do not read from or post at or disscuss things at any other forum....



    Respected Jitender Ji,

    thanks for welcoming me neech, i am around, just not participating.



    humbly asking for everybody's forgiveness.
     
  16. simpy

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    Regarding Recitation if done correctly thing: Gurmukhi dialect varies from city to city in Punjab, and people from abroad, everybody has a touch of their regional language present in their way of speaking.......


    SO WHO CAN JUDGE WHICH RECITATION IS CORRECT???????

    we certainly don't have any audio recodings from Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Sahibaan's time.........

    THEN WHAT IS CORRECT RECITATION???? WHO CAN DECIDE THAT????? 'WAHEGURU' CAN BE WRITTEN AND SPOKEN IN MANY DIFFERENT WAYS..........................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Instead we can say that we recite as pure as possible OUT OF GREAT RESPECT, not for other reasons....


    regading raag and naad Guru Ji has told us time and again:

    ਕੋਈ ਗਾਵੈ ਰਾਗੀ ਨਾਦੀ ਬੇਦੀ ਬਹੁ ਭਾਤਿ ਕਰਿ ਨਹੀ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਭੀਜੈ ਰਾਮ ਰਾਜੇ ॥

    humbly asking for everybody's forgiveness
     
  17. Sikh80

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    I am reminded Of the lines/'Tuks' from SGGS ji regarding Bani. Why do we call it 'Dhur Ki Bani'?

    Dur kI bwxI AweI ] (628-2, soriT, mÚ 5)
    The Bani of His Word emanated from the Primal Lord.
    iqin sglI icMq imtweI ] (628-2, soriT, mÚ 5)
    It eradicates all anxiety.
    dieAwl purK imhrvwnw ] (628-2, soriT, mÚ 5)
    The Lord is merciful, kind and compassionate.
    hir nwnk swcu vKwnw ]2]13]77] (628-3, soriT, mÚ 5)
    Nanak chants the Naam, the Name of the True Lord. ||2||13||77||
    Kindly clarify.
     
  18. Sikh80

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    bwxI gurU gurU hY bwxI ivic bwxI AMimRqu swry ]

    baanee guroo guroo hai baanee vich baanee anmrith saarae ||

    The Word, the Bani is Guru, and Guru is the Bani. Within the Bani, the Ambrosial Nectar is contained.

    guru bwxI khY syvku jnu mwnY prqiK gurU insqwry ]5]
    gur baanee kehai saevak jan maanai parathakh guroo nisathaarae ||5||

    If His humble servant believes, and acts according to the Words of the Guru's Bani, then the Guru, in person, emancipates him. ||5||


    What is the meaning that Guru , in person, emanicipates him.? Kindly guide.Both the answers should be replied in a single post.
     
  19. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    Surinder Ji,

    Thank you for your kind feedback. As I mentioned, you are advanced - far beyond my vision - so how can you repeatedly call yourself neech and use these words - humbly forgive me - in your every post?

    This is the basics I am talking about - controlling your anger. Words well spoken can be very beautiful, bringing joy and happiness. ... Pleasant words are as an honeycomb, sweet to the soul, and health to the bones.
     
  20. simpy

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    Please Santokh Ji, i am not angry at all, not even a bit.....there is no anger or hatred involved, ALL IS SIMPLE TRUTH FOR ME NEECH...

    well thanks a lot for pointing out about my harsh language, TRUTH IS ALWAYS BITTER, isn't it..... he he just joking....

    WAHEGURU RAKHA



    SORRY FOR CAUSING ANY BITTERNESS IF YOU THINK IT DID BY ANY MEANS...

    humbly asking for everybody's forgiveness
     
  21. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    Well, it's nice to have you leave a note of confidence on your part by not being a touch n' Go person. Good to have a proper conversation with an 'old' friend.

    Now don't go asking for clarification on the word 'old', lol.
     
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