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All followers of Sikh gurus not Sikhs : SGPC

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by Archived_Member16, Feb 16, 2008.

  1. Archived_Member16

    Archived_Member16
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    source: http://www.ibnlive.com/news/all-followers-of-sikh-gurus-not-sikhs-sgpc/59093-3.html


    All followers of Sikh gurus not Sikhs: SGPC



    ibnlive.com

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    A NEW ORDER? SGPC filed a petition before the SC against a Punjab and Haryana HC order.


    New Delhi: The Shiromani Gurdwara Prabandhak Committee or SGPC has contended that different sects who worship and follow Sikh gurus cannot be called part of Sikh community and the recent Punjab and Haryana High Court order denying minority status to the Sikhs was a serious error.


    Filing a petition before the Supreme Court against the HC order striking down a Punjab Government notification, granting minority status to SGPC-run educational institutions in the state, the SGPC said it is a serious error to treating all followers of Sikh gurus as Sikhs.

    The SC issued notices to the Centre, Punjab state, Sahil Mittal and others on the basis of two separate petitions filed by SGPC and state of Punjab.


    A bench consisting of Chief Justice KG Balakrishnan, Justices CK Thakker and RV Raveendran, however, refused to stay the operation of the High Court judgement dated December 17, 2007, holding that there is nothing to show that Sikhs were not a dominant group in the state.

    Earlier a group of students had moved a petition in the High Court after they had been denied admission in medical science courses in view of 50 per cent reservation granted to Sikhs in the SGPC-run medical colleges, which enjoy the status of minority institutions.


    The students had challenged the validity of Punjab Government notification dated April 25, 2006, under Section 2(f) of Punjab Private Health Sciences Educational Institutions (regulation of admission, fixation of fees and making of reservation) Act 2006, which granted minority status to SGPC-run educational institutions.


    According to the petitioners, Sikhs constituted 65 per cent population in Punjab and cannot be granted minority status.


    The High Court later ruled that the definition of minority under Articles 29 and 30 of the Constitution of India couldn’t be overruled or changed through a state government act.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/Those_not_on_our_rolls_are_not_Sikhs_SGPC/articleshow/2786665.cms

    Those not on our rolls are not Sikhs: SGPC
    16 Feb 2008, 0051 hrs IST[​IMG],[​IMG]

    Dhananjay Mahapatra[​IMG],[​IMG]TNN - TIMES OF INDIA

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    NEW DELHI: At a time when there is a hefty premium on the numbers a community or caste can boast, the Sikh Gurudwara Parbandhak Committee, along with the Punjab government, seem anxious to prune the ranks of Sikhs.

    Determined to retain the 'minority' tag which gives SGPC virtually a free hand in running the huge network of Sikh educational institutions, the committee has said that only its members can be counted as Sikhs.

    The audacious claim, which seeks to conflate the community with members of the controversial religious body and puts a whole number of sects - from colourful Nihangs and Nirankaris to Dera Sacha Sauda, Udasis and Radha Soamis - out of the fold, was put forward in the Supreme Court on Friday by SGPC and the Punjab government.

    SGPC and the state government, controlled by its political cohorts - the Akalis - had approached the SC to challenge an order of the Punjab and Haryana High Court which ruled that the community could not claim "minority status" in Punjab.

    The HC judgment had come on petitions filed by students who had applied for admissions to medical and dental colleges run by SGPC but failed to secure them because of the 50% reservation given to Sikhs after the state conferred minority status on the Sikh community.

    The SC Bench comprising Chief Justice K G Balakrishnan and Justices C K Thakker and R V Raveendran, which issued notice on the petitions but refused to stay the HC judgment, seemed to scoff at the arguments.

    On behalf of the petitioners, counsel Harish Salve and Jayshree anand argued that SGPC had since its formation in 1925 recognised only those as Sikhs who believed only in "Guru Granth Sahib", the "Ten Gurus" and "no other religion".

    Though true, the criterion has never been used as a litmus test for determining who is a Sikh. Though the community has frowned upon leaders of Nirankaris and Baba Ram Rahim of Dera Sacha Sauda, who call themselves Gurus, Nihangs have rarely been seen as outsiders.

    The community leaders did not seek to look askance at Sikhs worshipping Hindu gods even after the toll the turbulent 80s took on the bond between the two communities.

    The HC in its December 17, 2007, judgment had said: "There is no material to substantiate that 'Sikhs' are a non-dominant group in Punjab apprehending deprivation of their rights at the hands of 'dominant group' who may come to power in the state in a democratic election."

    Counsel for SGPC tried to substantiate their plea by arguing that the number of Sikh electors in Punjab registered with the religious body was 53.98 lakh, which is less than 50% of the total 1.65 crore registered voters in the state.

    It did not seem to wash with the Bench which remarked that if the SGPC's method of determining the minority status was to be accepted, then the entire Hindu community, with myriad sects and sub-sects, would also be entitled to claim 'minority status'.

    SGPC and the state, in their appeals before the SC, took shelter under a declaration from the National Commission for Minority Act under which the Central government had issued a notification on October 23, 1993, declaring Muslims, Christians, Sikhs, Buddhists and Zoroastrians as minority communities.

    The Bench, however, demurred, pointing out that the Act pertained to the areas where the community, in relation to the total population, was in minority, implying that the law could not be invoked in Punjab where, according to the 2001 Census, Sikhs were the majority. The stand of the Bench mirrored the one taken by a constitution Bench in the T M A Pai case.

    This was also the reasoning that HC used to strike down a 2001 notification of the Punjab government, allowing SGPC to reserve 50% seats for Sikhs in its educational institutions. The HC had said government should have taken the population of the state into consideration rather than of the country.

    (dhananjay.mahapatra@timesgroup.com)






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  3. Huck_Finn

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    when is SGPC going to roll out the Sikh Card ? :)
     
  4. spnadmin

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    :confused:

    Does this apply to India only? Because sometimes SGPC seems to have governance over Gora Sikhs on all the continents of the world. And other times the issues seem limited to India only.

    The Rehat Maryada and the charter of gurdwaras world-wide, I thought and could be mixed up, come under SGPC. Why? How does this work out in practical terms? How does a Sikh in Kenya get a Sikh identity? In the eyes of SGPC.

    I am truly in a muddle about this. Soul_Jyot, amarsanghera, can you clear this up?
     
  5. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    Anotonia ji

    These are mainly political issue's .In real world politics do matter's a lot .For example this controversy arises because sikhs reserved 50% of college seats funded by sgpc to sikh
    students.This right is only given to minority communities of india but in punjab sikhs are not minority so some people challenged it because hindu's or any other community can't reserve seats which are in majority.so you can say that its just politics.
     
  6. Huck_Finn

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    its a ploy by the Akalis to distract the public opinon from their glaring misrule of the state.

    the public coffers are empty, govt employees have not been paid salary for 4-5 months..

    SGPC runs colleges and institutions, eg Guru Nanak Engg college in ludhiana, Medical college in amritsar and many Khalsa colleges.

    the issue cam up when SGPC put reservation for Sikh students.

    That was challenged as the law states that the minority consideration is to be provided only if in the "region" which is a "state" the religion under consideration is minority.

    Now people calling them selves "sikh" ( as SGPC claims) is above 50% in punjab while SGPC maintains that only those on its membership list ( eligible to vote for SGPC elections) are Sikhs.

    you donot have anything to worry.. :)

    SGPC can define who is a sikh but cannot make one

    Sikhi is universal and no one can give anyone a license for it or bar anyone from it.

    Any Gurudwara that stops or bars any humanity from entering and savoring the nectar of naam is as good as a spiritual supermarket
     
  7. spnadmin

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    Thanks so much amarsanghera. kdsjii too!

    So it looks as if something back-fired on SPGC once again.
     
  8. Archived_Member16

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    Sikhism: Tarlochan flays govt, SGPC
    Tribune News Service

    Chandigarh, February 22
    Former chairman of the National Minorities Commission and member, Rajya Sabha, Tarlochan Singh has criticised the Punjab government and the SGPC for trying to “narrow the ambit of Sikhism for their vested interests of controlling admissions to educational institutions by characterising them as minority institutions”.


    Tarlochan Singh was reacting to an appeal filed by the Punjab government and the SGPC before the Supreme Court against a judgment of the Punjab and Haryana High Court saying the Sikhs were not a minority community in Punjab.

    In a statement here on Wednesday Tarlochan Singh said by denying voting rights to the Sehjdhari Sikhs in the SGPC elections, the community had already shown the door to Sindhi Sikhs and members of the Udaasi sect.

    Now by saying the Radhsoamis, Namdharis and followers of Baba Dyalji were not part of the Sikh community, the community was being narrowed further.

    He said vested interests were narrowing the confines of a religion founded by Guru Nanak Dev just to seek admission to education institutions. Earlier, the SGPC used to claim that the Sikhs in the world number over two crore. But the new stance of the SGPC would reduce the population of the Sikhs in the world to mere 50 lakh. This would create a grave crisis for the community at the world level in future.

    Tarlochan Singh said the Arya Samaj and the Sanatan Dharam had conflicting principles, but both were Hindus. Similarly, Catholics and Protestants and Shias and Sunnis followed different principles, but were called Christians and Muslims, respectively. It was unfortunate that leaders of the Sikh community were not willing to accept members of various Sikh sects as Sikhs.

    Describing the issue as “political,” he said before going to the Supreme Court, the SGPC and the Punjab government should have consulted intellectuals and legal experts as well as taken the MPs into confidence so that the issue could be raised in Parliament.
     
  9. Archived_Member1

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    yes, i know you didn't ask me... :) but... the SGPC is only tasked with running Gurdwaras and schools in Punjab. anyone outside of Punjab doesn't have to answer to SGPC.

    they certainly should not be "allowed" to define who is Sikh. they do not have any control over the Rehet Maryada. our supreme temporal authority is Akal Takht, who technically is not controlled by SGPC, though sometimes, with all the political weirdness, it's difficult to sort out. :)
     
  10. Archived_Member1

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    The audacious claim, which seeks to conflate the community with members of the controversial religious body and puts a whole number of sects - from colourful Nihangs and Nirankaris to Dera Sacha Sauda, Udasis and Radha Soamis - out of the fold, was put forward in the Supreme Court on Friday by SGPC and the Punjab government.[/quote]
    ok, most of this i understand. but nihungs? that just seems like a bad move on their part...
     
  11. Archived_Member1

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    where is the SGPC definition of "sehjdhari"? it isn't in SRM. is it any non-amritdhari? or only those who cut their hair? what about keshdhari sikhs who drink?
     
  12. spnadmin

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    You see why I get so exasperated?
     
  13. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    A sikh who cuts his hair is identifable but how could you identify a sikh who drinks alchol?
     
  14. Astroboy

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  15. Archived_Member1

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    maybe you see him drinking in a bar? :)

    that's exactly the point. you can't tell. how come one kurehet makes a sikh ineligible to vote but another kurehet is ok?

    what if he sleeps around? smokes? can he still vote?

    it's discrimination based on one visually identifying feature. either voting should be allowed for all sikhs or limited to amritdharis, but this whole idea that SOME patits can vote while others can't seems wrong to me.
     
  16. kds1980

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    Its that some patits can vote while others can't is wrong. But then politicians will declare each every person as sikhs and use them as votebank.Once I read that somewhere sehajdhari's were allowed then even muslims went to vote.so the other options are

    1) No voting

    2)only amritdhari's should vote

    3)Like there is voter's identity election card in india there should be identity card of being a sikh issued by some authorities.
     
  17. Huck_Finn

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    option 3 is what i think SGPC will comeout with

    it will be a id card to get your son/daughter admitted to sgpc run institutes

    a kind of exclusive membership card

    LOL
     
  18. Huck_Finn

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    "some authorities."

    who are those authorities?
     
  19. Archived_Member1

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    i wonder what will be the price of the bribe to get such an ID card? :)
     
  20. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    local gurudwara
     
  21. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    well then the best thing is that there should be no voting by common sikh
     

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