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Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by princess kaur, Jul 13, 2012.
what does sikhism say about swarag & narak!!!!!!!
my own opinion, and I am probably in a minority, is that death is death, no more, end of, wormfood, the big sleep
LIFE AFTER DEATH - SIKHISM
Sikhs believe that upon death one merges back into the universal nature, just as a drop of rain merges back into the ocean. Individuality is lost. Sikhs do not believe in heaven or hell. Heaven can be experienced by being in tune with God while still alive. Conversely, the suffering and pain caused by ego is seen as hell on earth. Sikhism views spiritual pursuits as positive experiences in and of themselves that transcend death, not as sacrifices made in order to collect a reward that is waiting until after death. At birth the soul emerges into earth consciousness, veiled of all memory of past lives and the inner worlds. The cycle of reincarnation ends when karma has been resolved and the Self God (Parasiva) has been realized. This condition of release is called moksha. Then the soul continues to evolve and mature, but without the need to return to physical existence. Sikhism teaches that the soul reincarnates when the body dies. Sikhs believe that good, or bad actions, determine the life form into which a soul takes rebirth. At the time of death, demonic, ego centered souls may be destined to suffer great agonies, and pain, in the dark underworld of Narak.A soul, fortunate enough to achieve grace, overcomes ego by meditating on God. Such a soul may attain liberation from the cycle of reincarnation. The soul then experiences salvation in Sachkhand, the realm of truth, where it exists eternally, as an entity of radiant light.
Sikhism believes in the immortality of the soul. The devotee has no fear of the pangs of death. In fact he welcomes death, because it gives him a chance for the merger into Divinity. The evil person, however, dreads death. For him, it will lead to the unending cycle of birth and death. After death, man comes to the next birth according to what he deserves. If he has been wicked and evil, he takes birth in the lower species. If he has done good deeds, he takes birth in a good family. The cycle of birth and death keeps the soul away from Divinity. It can merge with God, only if the individual, by spiritual effort, has amassed the capital of the Name (the Holy Spirit as understood by Christians) and thus lives with the Holy Spirit. The Sikh religion teaches that salvation consists in knowing God, or in obtaining God, or being absorbed into God. The general method of salvation is fairly consistent with the supremacy of an inscrutable God, and with the accompanying doctrines of the worthlessness of the world and the helplessness of man... This method of obtaining salvation by a pantheistic merging of the individual self with the mystical world soul is identical with the method of salvation.
Karma belief says that actions and the consequences of these actions decide whether a soul can be set loose from the cycle. Freedom from the cycle of rebirth is called mukti.Sikhs believe in reincarnation. This means that a person's soul may be reborn many times as a human or an animal. Sikhs believe that upon death one merges back into the universal nature, just as a drop of rain merges back into the ocean. Individuality is lost. Sikhs do not believe in heaven or hell. Heaven can be experienced by being in tune with God while still alive. Conversely, the suffering and pain caused by ego is seen as hell on earth. Sikhism views spiritual pursuits as positive experiences in and of themselves that transcend death, not as sacrifices made in order to collect a reward that is waiting until after death. The Sikhs believe that the Soul has to transmigrate from one body to another as part of an evolution process of the Soul. This evolution of the Soul will eventually results in a union with God upon the proper purification of the spirit. If one does not perform righteous deeds, ones soul will continue to cycle in reincarnation forever. A being who has performed good deeds and actions in their lives is transmigrated to a better and higher life form in the next life until the soul of the being becomes Godlike.
The Sikh concept of mukti is essentially that of jivan mukti, the one attainable in one's lifetime itself. Further, Sikhism rejects the idea of considering renunciation as the vesture of a jivan mukta. Contrast with it, for example, the Jain view according to which the liberated persons have to lead a mendicant's life, for; otherwise, they cannot keep themselves free from karma. Sikhs do not believe in heaven or hell. Heaven can be experienced by being in tune with God still alive. Conversely, the suffering and pain caused by ego is seen as hell on earth. Sikhism views spiritual pursuits as positive experiences in and of themselves that transcend death, not as sacrifices made in order to collect a reward that is waiting until after death. Similarly there is no actual place called heaven. Sikhism does not regard the winning of a place in heaven as a worthy object. The old Indian concept of heaven is of a beautiful place providing all sorts of comforts and luxuries. The concept of hell and heaven is just a rough illustration for clarifying the doctrine of Karma. Hell and heaven refer to evil or good stages of life respectively and they can be lived here and now in our earthly existence. According to Guru Arjan, "Wherever the praises of God are sung, there verily is heaven. The devotee is neither afraid of hell nor anxious to go to heaven. In a way, hell and heaven are conditions of mind. So the soul of man wanders and suffers on earth." The worldly man eats, enjoys and sleeps, unmindful of the higher things of life.
Q31. Is there a hell or heaven?
Man is judged according to his actions. If he has done evil deeds, he goes into lower forms of life; if he has done noble deeds, he gets a human life again. The idea of hell and heaven is a mere hypothesis. The picture of hell as a place of varied and terrible tortures is symbolic:
"There is a stream of fire from which comes poisnous flames.
There is none else there except the self.
The waves of the ocean of fire are aflame.
And the sinners are burning in them." (A.G. p 1026)
Shaikh Farid tells us that hell is a burning lake resounding with terrible cries. It may be added that the result of a sinful life is its adverse effect on character from which ultimately comes suffering and torment. In short, to be in hell is to be out of the presence of God.
Similarly there is no actual place called heaven. Sikhism does not regard the winning of a place in heaven as a worthy object. The old Indian concept of heaven is of a beautiful place providing all sorts of comforts and luxuries. The devotee is neither afraid of hell nor anxious to go to heaven. In a way, hell and heaven are conditions of mind. The virtuous man is happy and contented, as if he is living in heaven.
The concept of hell and heaven is just a rough illustration for clarifying the doctrine of Karma. Hell and heaven refer to evil or good stages of life repectively and they can be lived here and now in our earthly existence.
According to Guru Arjan, "Whereever the praises of God are sung, there verily is heaven." Likewise, the society of the wicked is a hell. The condition of an average man is described thus: "Like birds that flock in the evening on a tree, flutter with pleasure and pain, scan the skies morning and evening, wandering everywhere, driven by hunger. So the soul of man wanders and suffers on earth." The worldly man eats, enjoys and sleeps, unmindful of the higher things of life. He is free, and perhaps, may choose wrongly.
Soul_jyot-ji how do we know it is symbolic? Where are we given reason to believe this?
Please refer to previous postings on the subject:
Heaven and Hell ??
No one can ever know what happens after death. What we do here is what's important. Everything else is just guesswork and hope. Hope that we would be rewarded for our good actions and our endurance. Hope that our enemies and those who do wrong against us will be tormented for eternity. Or hope that we will merge into divine blissful light while the others will be reincarnated again and again or simply die.
Think about doing all your good deeds for the sake of doing good deeds enduring hardship for the sake of carrying on, and the evil-minded stealing your home, your wealth, your children and living in materialistic bliss now while you find solace in the only thing that can't be taken away from you (God / naam) just to end up in the exact same place after death as the man who wronged you.
How does that make you feel? This scenario says a lot about religious beliefs, optimism, spiritual growth, acceptance and reality.
Ishna ji, thanks for the few thoughtful comments.
My only concern is this ill wishing you stated-
SIKHISM is very STRONG on..Na ko BERI nahin Beganna..No one is my enemy..NONE is a STRANGER..Sagal saang hum ko bann ayye..I am Brother to ALL....UNIVERSAL BROTHERHOOD same FAMILY under the Heavenly Father Creator !! GURU ARJUN JI seated on the hot Plate says..DOSH na khoon devohn..I Blame no one ( for this torture)...Har Ka naam padart h mangeh..I only seek YOUR NAME...
Honestly, what I am going to say is not my opinion, but I was told that swarg is where the demi gods reside and narak is hell, sach khand is different from swarg because sach khand is forever while if you go to swarg it is for a while and you get reincarnated.
This is a thread about heaven and hell so I made reference to such in my post. I have said nothing about my own beliefs, just presenting a variety of ideas. Just like there is a variety of ideas about life after death within Sikhi. No one knows the truth of it until they're dead. And then they might just be that -dead.
so according to sikhism we make swarag and narak on earth itself by our deeds and karma. if we r saying after death our body is nothing just wormfood,,,,then what to say about our "SOUL". where it goes after death?
What is a soul?
is it all of you? just the good bits? the perfect you? you bad bits and all?
please define your definition of soul Bhenji
Do we all have souls including animals? If our souls do go somewhere, does the soul of an animal also go to the same place?, does that include the millions of deaths every minute of bacteria, germs, ants, flies
I think the only answer that you can give with any conviction is back to Creation, either through burning, burial, sea funeral, food for animals, our essence goes back into the big melting pot, but we as personalities cease to exist, in my view, anyway
Swarg and Nark are on totally different planets.. I don't think that the Guru ji said Earth is Hell and Heaven.. I think the Gurus mean that it can feel that way.. :grinningsingh:
Back in my youger days we lived far away from urban area..my neighbour had a wife and young son . he was very rich and was often away in town on buisness...and he also lent money. One neighbour had borrowed form him and was not in a position to pay back..one dark night the rich mans son fell very ill with fever...there was a retired doctor living nearby and he came to help and wrote out what medicines to buy and urgently. The rich mans wife begged the poor neighbour to take the money and go rush to town - about 4 hours away by foot..the man set off in the blinding rain and storm..all wet and tired he reached town and was knocking on the pharmacists door when who happened to come by ?? The rich man himself..and he recognized the neighbour and straight away he began to abuse him..OH you little worm..you pretend you cant pay me back and here you are buying things eh ?? here give me the money you bas.tard..the man tried to tell him the money was not his but for medicine for his own son..but the angry rich man just wouldnt listen...and grabbed all the money and walked away...when he reached home later at night he found that his son was dying and all were waiting for the neighbor who went to buy the medicines...OH my God..he was telling me the truth..and now its too late...his son died an hour later...the Rich man who was in Heaven had just created his HELL...becasue he went MAD..stark raving mad with grief...he had killed his own son..when we left the village..the man was sent to mental hospital...he was still there many decades later...The MILLS of GOD grind slowly..BUT they grind exceedingly FINE..we do make our heavens and hells by our actions..the CREATOR has nothing to do with it...japposatnamwaheguru:
Interesting post, Gyaniji.
Not very easy to define Harryji, but it is a part within us.
I think the soul is the part of us that gives us this instinct at times, it knows where it wants to belong but is sidetracked with our human and physical desires.
I suppose the soul is what is left when the physical uniform of our body is stripped away. The soul is the pure truth within us and the part that wants to remain connected with God.
Do I really believe that such a soul exists ?-
-Well, it depends what you want to call it. I don't think I believed in such an entity before last year when I was in a coma for a month after being on the border of life and death for some time.
I realised that there is this physical me and also the 'real' me!!
This physical me, the one with a name, personality and character all ceases to be when the body clock stops ticking,- but the true part of creation within me continues for eternity.- After all, that is what we expect of creator and creation, it may change physical form, but it is sure to continue.
For a very very long time after the Physical Gurus left this Earth, and gifted us the Treasure of SGGS in written form...the custodians and the teachers...all came from the very stock that Guru Ji had REJECTED as UNFIT. The Really FIT and Practising SIKHS had no place to hide their heads..spending their days and nights on horseback, subsisting on a fistful of roasted nuts and being hunted from pillar to post..while the Udasis and the Nirmalas grabbed the opportunity to become custodians of SGGS and Gurdwaras..and thus sealed SHUT the SGGS and slowly but surely began to drag Sikhism/Gurmatt back into the PIT of Shackled Hinduism that Guru Ji had LIBERATED it form during the 239 years form 1469-1708... Here and there Lone "stars" shone briefly but the Darkness kept spreading...
In the early 1920s the Singh sabha Movement looked like the Sun was agian coming out of the clouds..but the SIKHS were once more embroiled in the BLOO.DY FIGT for Indian Independence in which the SIKH SHARE was far far BIGGER than their TINY population...once again the backward soch of Brahminism/Hinduism took over...and teekas like the FREEDKOTEE TEEKA were rpoduced that were so ORANGE IN COLOUR that the SGGS was totally covered in ORANGE RUMALLAS..and appeared to be a "translated Vedas"...nothing more...here too LONE STARS like Bhai kahn Singh nabha did try and change the picture..but they were in a minority...HUM HINDU NAHIN booklet by Kahn SingH nabha was challenged in COURTS and on the Ground and vehemently OPPOSED..but the stature of Bhai kahn Singh nabha was just too big to get it BANNED as demanded...Time Passed..and 1947 Came..while DELHI celebrated..PUNJAB's SIX RIVERS overflowed with the Bloo.d and dead bodies of Sikhs and Hindus and Muslims...Punjab and SIKHS paid the heaviest price for Indian Independence...but one result was FURTHER "warfare" for SIKH RIGHTS...Punjab and SIKHS had to fight the new Govt in DELHI ofr basic rights..own WATERS..oWN Language..OWN Capital City, Own University...a battle for each right..small or big..
Then another Blinding Star was born in the Form of Professor Sahib SINGH..a weakling of a HINDU BOY who was so bullied in school that he turned to SIKHISM to regain his HONOUR...and became Sahib Singh..and Gifted us his SGGS Darpan..the MIRROR that succeeded in SHOWING SIKHS what the SGGS truly represented..it REMOVED MOST (99%) of the ORANGE RUMALLAS that had almost covered SHUT the SGGS for over 300 years...BUT then again Sahib Singh was a MINORITY....the SIKHS were still struggling to find their feet in the sham democracy they had inherited form the British...becoming SLAVES of BROWN BRITISH !!!
Only in the last 20 years or so of the Burst of INTERNET and related Technologies ..has the Prof sahib Singh darpan..the ALL SEEING ALL REFLECTING HUBBLE TELESCOPE been placed on eacha nd every DESKTOP..lap and in the POCKET of whoever is interested in the TRUTH...and the SIKH MISSIONARY MOVEMENT has began ROLLING in EARNEST....and the GENUINE TRUTH that SGGS reveals is slowly beginning to get through...the Masks of orange are getting fainter...even though the Battle is still grossly unfair..on one side there is the all powerful RSS, BJP..Bhagwa Brigade, Govt and MAJORITY agencies, etc etc..the TRUTH and TRUTHFUL FELLOWS refuse to be silenced..not by EXCOMMUNICATIONS..not by other persecutions..the MUSHROOMS keep sprouting even though they are being stomped on continously..THERE is HOPE...ETERNAL. GURBANI...Bhagat Kabir Ji..bhagat ravidass Ji, The GURUS are being TRULY UNDERSTOOD as never before...what they REALLY MEAN...icecreammundaicecreammundaicecreammundaicecreammundaicecreammunda
if i know everything why should i ask or discuss here....i just want to get the exact knowledge.......m all illiterate in this case.....i just wanna clear my queries.
if m not going off the track....then what to say about controlling the SOULS or AATMA in case of black magic (it just happens if m not wrong)??????
The scientific findings of Dr Brian Weiss will show you how true our Gurus were. Our individuality is not lost after death.
I suggest one may read 'Many Lives Many Master' and 'Love only is real', both written by Dr Brian Weiss.
With love and respect for all.