General After Death

[sid]

there are so many possibilities after death
may be there is nothing after death,may be rebirth,may be a class in front of god,may be in hell,may be in heaven,may be on earth and waiting for any special kind of opportunity.

 

[Luckysingh]

To some it doesn't matter, to others this is the only guaranteed event that they know that will come sometime.
Is this the time when one is evaluated ?
Is this the time when it is decided if one shall have a rebirth according to karmic laws or not ?

These answers can only be answered when it happens.
Even then, one does not know the real ''WHY?''
The why now, why not, why did it ?
Who determines this very ''why''?

With death, some of us feel that this will happen or that will happen, but when it happens you don't even realise what is happening!!!
For, we see the world through only this pair of eyes and we think that we see all.
Our own eyes and what we think we see is infact all very limited within our range when we can't view ourselves as a whole picture within and among the complete universe!!

Just as this living life is an experience for the soul, so is death itself, a final or first chapter of experience.

 

[Ishna]

if m not going off the track....then what to say about controlling the SOULS or AATMA in case of black magic (it just happens if m not wrong)??????

Princess Kaur, there is no such thing as black magic. It is all psychological. Guruji has power over everything.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

The GURUS were BORN as Humans, grew up as children do, got married, got jobs, had families, preached their Divine Message and then LEFT the MORTAL BODY as according to HUKM that whats BORN must DIE..at ages ranging from 7 to 88 ++ almost the entire spectrum of Human Life-term.

The GURUS wrote in Human language, using human tools like pen, kalam, etc and on Paper. The result was a BOOK bound as a normal book but slightly bigger and thus called Granth.
They also SPOKE the Human languages, sang in human Music, used human music instruments of the population like rebab etc...

I fail to understand WHY so many are FIXATED on whats NOT HUMAN..??? whats supposedly not answered..not addressed... Isnt it readily clear as day at Noon that the GURBANI is FOR HUMANS to LIVE life as HUMANS...IDEAL HUMANS as the Creator Intended..and NOT SPECULATE IDLY. Have we achieved such an Ideal high standard of Human Life (achieved by our Gurus, shaheeds etc) and thus we can afford to sit on our backsides and let our minds wander about on what IF..what THAT ?/ why THIS ? why That? things that clearly DONT concern us at all. I know I cant afford such idle work !! as i havent even yet understood and lived my life according to the SGGS Hukams ..and cant waste time going off track...whether someone is casting evil spells, making this man sick and that woman sleep around..making black magic or white magic or grey magic...I am sorry Harry Potter coems way down on my list after Japji Sahib....I have anotehr 1420 pages to go before i cna lay down to SLEEP..and where I GO is HIS HUKM...not for me to worry. When I buy a Plane ticket and seat myself in my allocated seat and belt up..I ENJOY the RIDE, the drinks, the food, the view, the chats and the movie etc etc..and DONT WORRY whether the PILOT is Black skinned..or Latino..or Chinese..or Sikh..or Muslim..or qualified..and i DONT PRAY to arrive safely and then promptly forget and go about my business..I REMEMBER HIM constantly..whether i am sleeping on my bed or in mid air going through turbulence !! THAT is just ONE lesson i learnt in SGGS..many many more IN there... WHY do I see so many closed eyes and lips moving in prayer on an airplane in turbulence than in a CINEMA watching dark Knight ???..or in a Rock Concert ? or at the Football game ?? Funfair... Same PEOPLE ?? but different attitude ??? why ??

 

[Harry Haller]

fear

 

[Luckysingh]

It is this fear that makes people ask and worry about the why and what if's.

We should not fear and should just let it come and be when the order of the will or hukam decides.
In the meantime we should be enjoying every god-given day to the fullest and when tomorrow comes, try to make it bettert than today.
Every learning day should be helping us to live better in line with the lord and truth continously.

However, some people may NOT fear out of pure ignorance, this should not be the way to have no fear of dying. The NO FEAR should be associated with pure love.

 

[itsmaneet]

A very beautiful lines i heard from a Sant in which is said ......
Sikhi means 'Pehla Maran Kabul Jivan Ki Chadd Aass.....'

A Sikh is said to be a true Sikh who has already given his life to his Guru then whats the point of death & birth .... It was shown by Guru Gobind Ji while forming 5 Payare. The 5 Pyare who came forward to give their heads.

 

[Luckysingh]

Pehla maran kabul jivan ki chaad aas
Hohu sabna ki reinkha toh ao hamare paas

-First accept death and discard or forget the hope of life. Become the dust of the feet of all and only then you come to me.

This is accepting death and looking forward to it's hope and being dust or dirt below all the living people,only then or after can you be with the lord.

This is in line and similar to what I stated earlier- That after the body becomes dirt and dust following death, the soul lives on and can become with One.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Pehla maran kabul jivan ki chaad aas
Hohu sabna ki reinkha toh ao hamare paas

-First accept death and discard or forget the hope of life. Become the dust of the feet of all and only then you come to me.

This is accepting death and looking forward to it's hope and being dust or dirt below all the living people,only then or after can you be with the lord.

This is in line and similar to what I stated earlier- That after the body becomes dirt and dust following death, the soul lives on and can become with One.

Not quite Luckysingh Ji..

This TUK is NOT baout Physical Death (dust etc)..BUT pointing to the DEATH that happens while ALIVE !! and results in what Gurbani calls JEEWAN MUKT..MUKTI while Alive. IN another Tuk Bhagat Namdev Ji says this even more clearly...He asks God..My Lord..GIVE ME MUKTI NOW..while I am ALIVE and everybody can SEE me achieve Muktee . Of what use is muktee" after DEATH..when I or no one else can see or look at me in muktee form ?? Now could nay thing be MORE CLEARER THAN THAT ??

As I have been asserting all along GURBANI is FOR the LIVING...BY the LIVING and OF the LIVING.

Its Not at all some mumbo jumbo promises and "lareh" about heaven, hell, atma souls etc having a lot of Fun at a Fun fair sort of after life etc etc..meeting long gone grandpas and loving husbands or pyareh daddy ji mummy ji etc as we see depicted in some rleigious litertaure or floating clouds and angels etc etc...

IN GURMATT one has to GIVE UP HIS LIFE..at the GATES...the ENTRANCE ITSELF..as we have proof of what happened on Vasakhi day 1699 at Anandpur sahib..Daya Ram stood up to a NAKED SWORD and answered the CALL for a HEAD ?? Are we saying that "Call and Naked sword" was just a DRAMA ?? Thta DYA RAAM knew for a fact that he wasnt going to die just yet..it was just a call..nothing more or less. OR DID Dya Raam stand up fully prepared to GIVE HIS HEAD as the Gurus Call demanded. Then when The SECOND CALL Came..the Gurus Sword wasnt just NAKED..it was DRIPPING BLOOD...FRESH BLOOD ? Was the second one to answer the Call..Pyara DHARAM CHAND still believing that Dya Ram was ALIVE and in HIDING..and the Guru was just JOKING ??..and His HEAD was SAFE on His neck ?? THIRD Call..FOURTH CALL..and FINAL CALL CURTAINS UP...and the JEEWAN MUKT were REVEALED.

THIS "JEEWAN MUKT" was what made sikhs like Bhai mani Singh...smile while being cut joint by joint at an age of 70++...sikhs like Baba DEEP SINGH fight on even without the HEAD...sikhs who happily burnt alive, boiled laive, skinned alive, chopped up like carrots alive..hanged..blown up by cannons..NOT ONE was thinking of life after death..he was thinking of LIFE here and on this EARTH..and this LIFE was heldin TRUST for the GURU. Thats what we PROMISE the GURU when we undergo Khandey batte dee Pahul...we GIVE our Head but now its symbolical..BUT the Parametres remain exactly the same as in 1699. From the day we undergo this ceremony..the HEAD we have is no longer ours...we are enrolled in Jeewan mukt School and fear of PHYSICAL DEATH is gone (and its NOT due to some promised land in heaven/or merging with the Creator or our soul being happy etc tec..NOTHING LIKE THAT is promised anywhere in GURBANI )
Jarnail Singh Bhinderawalleh said..Physical death i fear NOT..its DEATH of CONSCIENCE that we SIKHS FEAR MOST..for a man whose conscience is DEAD..is a LIVING STONE....like we can see in the likes of badal makkar etc...I dont think for amoment Sant Bhinderawallh died becasue he was looking forward to "soul" being reborn etc etc...NO ONE has ever come back....its the PRESENT which GURBANI talks about and is concerned about. EVERY SINGLE TUK in SGGS is meant to be FOLLOWED and PRACTISED by Living HUMAN BEINGS..Here and NOW..sans any promises of any kind. Its NOT Gurmatt to make false/empty promises of after life..OTHERS DO THAT quite well and anyone seeking such should look there..he wont find it in SGGS.

WHat prevents us from being reenka..dust of everyones feet..OUR Mann..our Haumaii..Our Hankaar..our self esteem..our pride..its the MANN..not our head..or hands..or feet or arms..or legs..its the MANN...and ONLY a LIVING HUMAN BODY can Make the MANN BOW DOWN..and become the DUST....and once That HUMILITY...selflessness..has conquered us..we are READY to approach HIM...and Follow HIM..His path..THAT is the real meaning of this TUK. SUCH a "DEATH" cna be seen by all of us..its in plain view...its been shown by hundreds of thousands of shaheeds...like Bhai Ghaniyah Ji...etc etc...Bhai Ghaniyah Ji showed how a SIKH genuinely lives by his Gurus teachings..na Ko beri nahin beganna !!! Its NOT lip service..its LIFE !!:blueturban::blueturban::blueturban::blueturban::blueturban:

 

[Ishna]

I am in awe, Gyaniji. If I could stick a gold star onto your post I would!

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

I am in awe, Gyaniji. If I could stick a gold star onto your post I would!

i am just a tiny sliver of a mirror..reflecting the magnificent SUN - SGGS....have nothing of my own actually...mere reflections.. Our Beloved GURU Ji is the ultimate !! GYAAN SAGAR...Ocean of Light..and I am awed by HIM...standing by the shores..a tiny speck of sand......and gazing out at the vast expanse...Still Thanks for the appreciation Jios..makes my heart warmer...

 

[Archived_member15]

As I have been asserting all along GURBANI is FOR the LIVING...BY the LIVING and OF the LIVING.

Its Not at all some mumbo jumbo promises and "lareh" about heaven, hell, atma souls etc having a lot of Fun at a Fun fair sort of after life etc etc..meeting long gone grandpas and loving husbands or pyareh daddy ji mummy ji etc as we see depicted in some rleigious litertaure or floating clouds and angels etc etc...

Jarnail Singh Bhinderawalleh said..Physical death i fear NOT..its DEATH of CONSCIENCE that we SIKHS FEAR MOST..for a man whose conscience is DEAD..is a LIVING STONE....like we can see in the likes of badal makkar etc...I dont think for amoment Sant Bhinderawallh died becasue he was looking forward to "soul" being reborn etc etc...NO ONE has ever come back....its the PRESENT which GURBANI talks about and is concerned about.:blueturban::blueturban::blueturban::blueturban::blueturban:

Gyani Jarnail, my brother what a stunning post I have discovered on returning to SPN today peacesignkaur

Your words remind me so very much of Angelus Silesius, whom I have quoted before. Here are some of his epigrams that apply (arranged in my own order):


"...Do not compute eternity
as light-year after year
One step across that line called Time:
Eternity is here


Were I to lose myself in God
I'd find again the Ground
that held and nurtured me
before this earthly round


Time is of your own making,
its clock ticks in your head.
The moment you stop thought
time too stops dead.

At the end of that
which we call history
God is who IS:
for Him there is no past
nor future yet to be

No thought for the hereafter
have the wise,
for on this very earth
they live in paradise.

All heaven's glory is within
and so is hell's fierce burning.
You must yourself decide
in which direction
you are turning

Unless you find paradise
at your own center,
there is not
the smallest chance
that you may enter.

You are not real, Death,
for I die every minute
and am reborn in the next
into life infinite

The sage does not fear death.
To often has he died
to ego and its vanities,
to all that keeps man tied.

Saints do not die.
It is their lot
to die while on this earth
to all that God is not.

The vengeful God
of wrath and punishment
is a mere fairytale.
It simply is the Me
that makes me fail

He whose treasure house is God,
his earth is paradise.
Why then call those
who make this earth a hell
the worldly wise?..."

- Angelus Silesius (1624 - 1677), Catholic mystic, priest and poet



You have hit on essential, perrenial truths brother Gyani - the sacrament of the present moment, no thought for the hereafter.

Just WOW! I've got to hand it to you bruv.


Bravo! :sippingcoffeemunda:

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Bro Vouthon Jio,

You have once again reaffirmed my solid belief that TRUTH is UNIVERSAL..it is not tied to any creed, nation, language, period, area etc. Verily TRUTH shines on all as the Sun does.
Appreciate the quotes you have provided. My students will have a gala time discussing them all in the context of Gurbani, and comparative religious literature. Thank you.

 

[SaintSoldier1699]

Amazing post Gyani Ji - as always you capture the essence in your words so effortlessly!

The misconceptions are abundant and mainly there because we don't want to let go of what we have always been taught to believe.

We need to start emptying the vessel in order to look at the bigger picture and accept the truth and live life in the here and now instead of worrying about the cliffhanger of what happen's next which no one will know till they get there!

 

[itsmaneet]

Dear Giani Ji - What you said above is right ..... Our Gurus gave us all type of education. In numerous places in Gurbani, deaths referred to the death of ego, lust etc. but the same time has also asked to be ready to give your head for humanity, for your religions....isnt it? So what happened at Anadpurpur Sahib, I feel was to induce physical strength in Sikhs to make them fearless. It's also know that Guru Gobind Ji always use to wear 'Kamar Kassa' on this waist which means to be ready for all type of actions. Usually Nihangs still wear it.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Dear Giani Ji - What you said above is right ..... Our Gurus gave us all type of education. In numerous places in Gurbani, deaths referred to the death of ego, lust etc. but the same time has also asked to be ready to give your head for humanity, for your religions....isnt it? So what happened at Anadpurpur Sahib, I feel was to induce physical strength in Sikhs to make them fearless. It's also know that Guru Gobind Ji always use to wear 'Kamar Kassa' on this waist which means to be ready for all type of actions. Usually Nihangs still wear it.

OF COURSE jios..Gurbani tells us that its the GHARRA (vessel) that Stores WATER...and WATER CANNOT be "stored" without a Gharra !!
Bhai Duni Chand..who lived by Guru Jis side for a decade...consuming loads of karrah parshaad daily until his body resembled that of an "Elephant" ( just look at any of our modern day SANTS if you cant imagine that !!)...and I ma pretty sure Dunni Chand must have felt that being in Guru jis company his ego..his lust..etc was just about "dead"..right ?? its logical ..becasue I have met many granthis ragis etc or sangats that have been going to Gurdawra daily for 50 - 60 years every morning and evening..so they are sure of their inner status..why wouldnt Dunni Chand feel that way ?? Anyway..when news came that the enemy ahd procured a Masth Rogue male elephant, given it lots of alcohol, and tied armour on its sides, and front to smash down the door of Anandpur Fort..all the Sikhs and even Guru Ji remarked..well well they are sending an elephant eh...so what..here we have very OWN ELEPHANT..the valiant Dunni Chand who will fight that mad elephant !! WELL..Dunni Chand just "LOOKED" like an elephant..he wasnt at all elephant like INSIDE !! He was so struck with fear of DEATH that he jumped over the walls at night, fell down, broke a leg...and reached home safe and sound until a snake bit him (fatally). Meanwhile on learning of Duni chnads flight, Guru Ji called upon His REAL ELEPHANT..the 4ft 2 inch tall Bachitar Singh, gave him His own Circular bladed Spear and a slap on his back...and the rest is HISTORY. Bachitar singh stood up as talla s he could in his stirrups..and hurled the circular balded spear with such might that it pierced the plated armour and stuck deep into the elephnats head...the stirrups of bachitar singhs horse broke and bachitar singh jumped on his horses back, and grabbing hold of the fleeing elephants tail climbed on his body and rode the crazy elephant back into the mughal forces the twin swords tied to the trunk slashing and slashing the enemy soldiers and horsemen until it collapsed. Now its clear that Duni Chand had an EXCELLENT BODY (vessel) but the water inside was RANCID/or nil..while Bachitar Singhs body was slighter than normal..BUT his inside was OVERFLOWING with ENERGY !!

WE NEED BOTH...thats why our REHAT makes mandatory Morning bath, combing Kesh, tying dastaar pech by pech, Panj bani recitation..etc etc..this is PHYSICAL..and the SPIRITUAL part is LIVING GURBANI. Duni Chand looked great outside..BUT inside his SPIRITUAL VESSEL was empty. He Never LIVED GURBANI. So just like bath, kesh combing, tying dastaar, kamarkassah etc are PYSICAL...the Spiritual equivalent are..Bathing the MANN, Combing the Mann of dead broken habits, bad thoughts, etc, cleaning out and placing good thoughts, practsies, habits like tying pech by pech...and kamarkassah the MANN by keeping it in CHECK !! A Lazy couch potato always lazing about watching tv football etc..can NEVER be an EXEMPLARY human...much less a SIKH..such cant even hold down a decent job for long..how can he be "cut" joint by joint like Bhai mani Singh or have his scalp removed like Bhai taru Singh ?? THAT is why Guru ji declared..REHAT PYAREE MUJH KO.."sikh" pyara nahin... a SIKH MINUS REHAT is actually a Dunni Chand...his parents may not be able to "lose" him..BUT GURU JI who sacrificed his father, mother and four sons...is ever ready to "LOSE" a "sikh" like Duni Chand. Just ask the manager/Coach of any Football club like MU..whether he is willing to "lose" a Player who sleeps all day, never attends training/coaching/ smokes like a chimney drinks like a fish and is in bars entire night womanising....just becasue the player is a Rooney or whatever and scored before...The Coach will prefer to lose such and look at a newbie who will follow REHAT..DISCIPLINE !! A SIKH is much more than a football player..and so is REHAT..thats why Guru ji says rehat pyaree mujh Ko..sikh payara nahin...:singhsippingcoffee:animatedkhanda1

 

[Rory]

Your posted are always extremely interesting Gyaniji