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S Asia Afghan Sikhs Are Pushed to the Brink

Discussion in 'Breaking News' started by spnadmin, Jul 26, 2013.

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  1. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Afghanistan Sikhs, Already Marginalized, Are Pushed to the Brink in Afghanistan

    By Mark Magnier and Hashmat Baktash

    http://articles.latimes.com/2013/jun/10/world/la-fg-afghanistan-sikhs-20130611

    KABUL, Afghanistan — Outsiders may have trouble distinguishing between the turbans worn by Afghan Sikhs, with their tighter folds, varied colors and tucked-in edges, and those worn by Afghan Muslims, usually black or white with the end hanging down the wearer's back.

    The subtle differences, however, and what they represent, have fueled widespread discrimination against Afghan Sikhs, members of the community say, prompting many to move away amid concern that the once-vibrant group could disappear.

    "For anyone who understands the differences in turbans, we really stand out," said Daya Singh Anjaan, 49, an Afghan Sikh who fled the capital, Kabul, for India after seeing his Sikh neighbors slain. "I'm sure the remaining Afghan Sikhs will vanish soon. Survival's becoming impossible."

    There are no exact records on when Sikhs, a 500-year-old monotheistic people from western India and modern-day Pakistan, arrived in Afghanistan, although most accounts place it around 200 years ago. Mostly traders, they prospered and numbered about 50,000 by the early 1990s, concentrated in Jalalabad, Kabul, Kandahar and Ghazni.

    But decades of war, instability and intolerance have fueled waves of emigration, reducing the community to just 372 families nationwide, said Awtar Singh Khalsa, association president of the Karte Parwan gurdwara, or temple. This is the last of eight gurdwaras that once operated in Kabul, he said.

    During the Afghan civil war of the mid-1990s, most of Kabul's solidly constructed gurdwaras were appropriated by battling warlords who shelled one another, destroying seven of them along with a Sikh school that once taught 1,000 students. Under Taliban rule, Sikhs had to wear yellow patches, reminiscent of the Jews under Nazi rule, and fly yellow flags over their homes and shops.

    Among the goals laid out by the United States and its allies after toppling the Taliban government in 2001 was religious tolerance for minorities, who account for about 1% of Afghanistan's population.

    In practice, Sikhs say, Afghan President Hamid Karzai's weak and embattled government rarely counters prejudice by the majority population, which emboldens attackers. Hooligans rob, insult and spit at them on the street, they say, order them to remove their turbans and try to steal their land.

    Particularly dispiriting, Afghan Sikhs say, are charges by the Muslim majority that they should "go home," even though they've lived in Afghanistan for generations and are protected, at least theoretically, by freedom-of-religion safeguards in the Afghan Constitution.

    Another disturbing example of the indignities they face is the treatment of their dead, many said. Cremation, a tenet of the Sikh faith, has been quietly practiced in Kabul's eastern district of Qalacha for more than a century.

    In recent years, however, some Sikhs who have tried to carry out cremations have been beaten up, stoned and otherwise blocked from doing so, at times decried as statue-worshiping infidels whose ceremonies "smell." Islam considers cremation a sacrilege.

    Many Sikhs said they've complained repeatedly to the government to little avail. "In the last decade, the Kabul government has specified 10 different places for Sikh burials and cremations, but villagers keep giving Sikhs problems," said Anarkali Honaryar, a senator representing the community. "Even when President Karzai issued a decree, nothing changed."

    While in New Delhi last month, Karzai said that Sikhs are a valued part of Afghanistan and that he was sorry so many had left. "We'll do our best to bring the Sikh community and Hindus back to Afghanistan," he said.

    Sikhs, Jews and other minorities enjoyed tolerance and relative prosperity until the late 1970s when decades of war, oppression and infighting set in. Although many Muslim families have also suffered hugely, Sikhs say they've faced worse pressures as a minority subject to forced religious conversions and frequent kidnapping, given their limited political protection and reputation for being prosperous.

    Pritpal Singh, an Afghan-born Sikh living in England who has documented the plight of Afghan Sikhs, said his brother was kidnapped shortly before the family left in 1992.

    "I really looked up to him; it was such a shock," he said. "They asked for crazy money and we couldn't pay, so they killed him."

    As conditions worsened, Sikhs turned increasingly inward, building a high wall around the last gurdwara to prevent passersby from stoning the building, and cremating their dead inside, normally unthinkable, to stem angry mobs.

    Khalsa said he's met repeatedly with Karzai but nothing changes, and meetings with bureaucrats and politicians often end with demands for money.

    "Corruption is unbelievable," Khalsa said. "The Taliban were far better than this government."

    For those emigrating, India and Pakistan visas are much easier to secure than those to Europe, so some stop there first, then travel illegally to the West.

    Although securing a short-term visitor visa to India is relatively easy, obtaining citizenship is a "nightmare" given India's bureaucracy and general indifference, said Paramjit Singh Sarna, an Indian community leader in New Delhi assisting Afghan Sikhs. It does not help that Sikhism originated in India and that Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh is a Sikh.

    Sarna said many Afghan Sikhs live in limbo in India. As "outsiders," they are unable to buy land or work, their travel is restricted, their children born stateless.

    Dhyan Singh, a 62-year-old Afghan Sikh who has lived in New Delhi since 1989, said he misses Afghanistan despite the problems.

    "Just last night, I dreamed I visited the Kabul gurdwara," Singh said. "It's only fear that keeps me away.
     
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  3. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh United States
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    The fact is the radical trunk of this tree of peace called Islam is using its swords, AK47's and the left over US made Stinger shoulder to shoulder missiles where ever they find a crack to enter. They have destroyed the relics of civilisations bygones in the Islamic countries. They are also killing each other in the name of Allah.

    The Sikhs in Afghanistan are between the rock of Kaaba and the hard headed place of the Islamic tyranny and for the latter, the best part of the last supper is hoping to get 72 virgins.

    The sad part is the inaction by the Indian Government. It does not seem to care about the Sikhs who have sacrificed so much for Bharat Mata (Mother India) to be what it is now.

    The Afghani Sikhs once crowded the famous Chicken Market in Kabul as cloth merchants. I was treated very well during my several trips there from 1972 to 1974 where I used to go to buy Bedouin dresses which were very trendy in Europe then.

    It is also almost impossible for them to leave their country of several generations and restart somewhere else. It would seem like the nightmare of 15th August 1947 which would last for years like a drip torture, if some radical steps are not taken by the foreign governments like the US, UK, Eurozone and India. The latter one does not seem to care, but the others can help as they are helping other Afghanis to find a new home. Afghani Sikhs are part of the same tapestry although their patch is a bit more tattered than the others'.

    Tejwant Singh
     
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  4. dalsingh1zero1

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    When I put recent community experiences together and reflect on them a few things become apparent. As a minority, our position IS precarious. Whether this is in the Panjab (the example being the bit now in Pakistan), Delhi (84 riots) or Afghanistan today and even (it seems) in the US at times.

    A trend to notice is how, at one point in time, Sikhs could be flourishing and well accepted at a certain location, and at some later point (usually due to some political upheaval or act of war between two parties), become objects of hate or indifference in the very same place.

    I know a fair few Afghan Sikhs are refugees here in the UK. I can't help but think the smartest thing is for the remaining families in Afghanistan to get out and reach safer shores. Even if this sadly means leaving beloved Gurdwaras. I don't see any other option - other than to stay and live the live of a scared rat.


    Shame on India for being indifferent.

    That being said, those Afghan Sikhs have a big reputation as shrewed money makers in Afghanistan so I'm not shocked that people try to extort them when they look for help.

    Strange thing this, most the Afghan Sikhs I've spoken to in the UK say that the Taliban weren't actually that bad compared to other foreign AlQaeda fighters. I think Mullah Omar actually extended protection to Sikhs whilst he was in power.
     
    #3 dalsingh1zero1, Jul 26, 2013
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  5. Joginder Singh Foley

    Joginder Singh Foley United Kingdom
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    WJKKWJKF

    But when anyone tries to point out to the left and media the oppression that Sikhs or any other non-muslims get not just in Afghanistan you are either ignored or get the "Racist" label applied without being given a chance to put your facts. It is becoming increasingly clear that many sections of the left and the media have a mindless bias towards islam but have not understood the nature of the beast that they are mindlessly defending


    Rant over this Singh will now go back being his usual quiet and humble self

    :winkingsingh:
     
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  6. dalsingh1zero1

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    I don't agree. Even though I've done it in the past, now I'm older (and hopefully wiser??), I'm not inclined to see 'Islam' as some monolithic block.

    I mean compare the Islam of Bangladesh, Iran and Afghanistan and you'll soon spot some serious diversity.

    Whilst I'm not denying that certain interpretations of Islam can be very harsh to nonbelievers (i.e. Wahhabiism) the problem with westerners, especially those of an Anglo background is that they themselves shamelessly fail to face up to both their own current, and their ancestors historical - 'global adventurism' that often helps foster, bolster and actually spread the type of Islam that has people complaining.

    If I've guessed your own ancestry correctly (Irish?), you yourself will have clearly witnessed and experienced the above at work, with occupied and interfered people turning violently extreme.

    Extreme Islam has always been here, but a lot of moves made by Europeans and Americans fuel it today. It would be better if they didn't.

    I've posted this before but it is well worth a look in relation to the subject at hand.

    http://blogs.denverpost.com/captured/2013/01/28/podlich-afghanistan-1960s-photos/5846/
     
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  7. aristotle

    aristotle
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    Interestingly, despite the 'diversity' in their versions of Islam, minorities are subjugated in all three of these countries.
     
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  8. dalsingh1zero1

    dalsingh1zero1
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    As a Sikh of Panjabi background I can go to the Panjab and see Sikh Jats attempting to subjugate so-called 'low caste Sikhs'.

    You can also witness Sikhs treating immigrant Bihari laborers quite disdainfully.

    As a brown man you can go to certain working class areas in England and be readily greeted with open hostility in the form of racist abuse to physical intimidation and attacks. Many industries try to keep their managing classes white with perhaps the odd sycophantic token representation as a 'get around'.

    I see the most horrendous treatment of Indian/Bengali/African labour in certain wealthy Arab countries who still have no problem attracting white western workers on high salaries, who turn a blind eye to this en masse. The governments in the west don't really care because they have lucrative contracts in the said states.

    So where are you going with your argument?

    The experiences of a Sikh living in Islamic Malaysia to that of a Sikh living in Afghanistan today are not analogous.

    Also ignoring recent history, when Sikhs clearly DID NOT experience what they are experiencing now in Afghanistan will give one a skewed view (look at the link in my last post if you haven't). Maybe the question to ask is 'What changed?' I'd suggest foreign interference in the region played a big part in this change that took place.

    Like I alluded to before. It appears as if things often move in a cyclic fashion in these matters. I mean I remember the most appalling racism and attacks on 'Asians' (used to be called ****-bashing) in the UK only a few decades ago. This has changed. But that isn't to say, that if this country deteriorated economically and the right wing gained ground again, we wouldn't see a return of such things. We can look at the Panjab again, which achieved a great deal of success in multiculturalism during the reign of Ranjit Singh, only to have Muslim consciousness re-emerge under the British - mainly due to the stimulus provided by a British educated Jinnah and also, perhaps in part, as a consequence of the 'divide and rule' stratagem..

    For sure, certain Muslim countries aren't the best place for 'non-believers' but to make out like this is a constant, or to ignore the effect that foreign influence often has on just how 'militantly Islamic' Musllims in a region become is to be willfully ignorant.
     
  9. aristotle

    aristotle
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    Dal Singh Ji,
    You must be thinking of me as an Islamophobe or a 'everything-bad-is-because-of-Islam' kind of a person, but believe me, I am not. Nor am I so naive to condemn Islam as a whole because of politicosocial crisis brewing in some remote region.
    What I pointed out(and that was not to antagonise your argument) , was an interesting observation IMO. You had selected three countries(randomly, I presume) from different regions, of different economic stature, and practising Islam in different shades. What I intended to say was that despite these differences, minority bashing is a constant in these three countries. Is it a coincidence, or is it not? Shouldn't we be debating why the minorities are being targetted, rather than whether to blame it on Islam or not?
    Theoretically, subjucation of every kind is equally bad. Everything from racism in the UK, to slavery in the not-so-long past of USA, and the Shoah in Nazi Germany were all bad. But simply because such things have happened in the past, or are happening elsewhere now, doesn't mean Afghani Sikhs should drink their tears. And what to talk of Afghani Sikhs, atleast they get to live in the city; Sikhs in Chuna Mandi(Lahore, Pakistan) have locked themselves up in the Gurudwara and are afraid to go out even for buying essentials for themselves, the moment they enter the streets, they are jeered for not being a Muslim and are meted out assault of different kinds. Sadly, no fatwa is published condemning these things, no Imam comes out to support religious freedom for everyone. Is Islam responsible? No, but a certain understanding of radical Islam is surely responsible for this, one cannot escape this fact.
    If you were to make the list of countries where practising Sikhi socially is tough, Islamic nations will feature on the top, pointing out that does not make me an Islamophobe(similarly as I do not close my eyes on the '84 violence, Komagatamaru tragedy or ethic profiling in Western countries where Islamic elements aren't involved) , whether these be 'certain', 'most' or 'all' Islamic nations.
     
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  10. dalsingh1zero1

    dalsingh1zero1
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    Just for the record. I'm no fan of Islam myself, but what I do try and do is seek some truth, especially today when there is just so much politico-cultural misinformation out there in relation to the subject - all over the media and spewed by government agencies too. It's more important than ever to see through the fog these days. I don't have loyalties to any right or left wing agendas.

    This is a very circumspect and interesting observation in IMO. I mean, when we look at it, there are certain Islamic countries where Sikhs seem to fare better than in the US where Sikhs have experienced murders, physical abuse and general verbal attacks (i.e. rag heads, terrorists, Bin Laden etc.) There have been a fair few incidents now.

    That's not to say the above constitutes all there is to say about the Sikh experience in the US, but the point remains - despite problems I'd say SIkhs in Islamic Malaysia have less of a hard time than many of those in the US. So simplistic finger pointing at 'Islam' just doesn't cut it.

    Absolutely, again I'd like to bring attention to the strange cyclic nature of things here, where once Sikhs were rulers in Lahore, look at the situation now.

    I'll put it out there for the questioners amongst us. Is this a pattern that we should try and understand as a globally dispersed minority?

    You mention the above, many will recall that only a few decades ago venturing out on the street in certain places in London involved serious abuse and the real threat of violence for Sikhs (or indeed any other brown person). See where I'm going with this? At particular times other locations become hotspots for Sikhs.

    I'd like to explore whether the move from liberal to violently intolerant has some pattern about it. I mean this is the same Panjab within which non-orthodox strands of Islam like Sufism thrived. What changed? Did British policy play a part in the Balkanisation of Panjab and the demise of a pan-Panjabi identity (i.e. regional) to an insular religious one?

    Again I'd make the point that right now, you're probably right but within living memory the situation doesn't appear to have been thus. So it isn't cut and dry.

    By all accounts Sikhs were respected and prosperous in Afghanistan prior to the Russian invasion. Sikhs themselves will tell you this. Members of my own family have told me that prior to partition, Panjabi Sikhs and Muslims generally got on fine at ground level. A few decades ago in England Sikhs were treated horrendously and regularly abused and attacked and occasionally murdered. Early pioneer Sikhs in the US faced virulent racism and mob violence against 'Hindoos'.

    So whilst Islamic nations might top your theoretical list right now, at other points of the recent and not so recent past, there would have been other nonIslamic nations competing for the top spot.
     
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  11. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh United States
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    DalSingh ji,

    Guru Fateh.

    You write:

    Would you be kind enough to elaborate on what you mentioned above like which decades and which areas in London?

    Thanks & regards

    Tejwant Singh
     
  12. dalsingh1zero1

    dalsingh1zero1
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    I was talking about the 'p@ki-bashing' era of the late 70s, 80s. You could mention East London in this respect.
     
  13. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh United States
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    Dal Singh ji,

    Guru Fateh.

    I lived there in the 70's and used to go to Petticoat Lane, East London, every Sunday all the way from Osterley, because my brother and I had 5 stalls there. In fact one of them had the best location, at the corner. Many cockneys were jealous of us for having so many stalls at great locations but all respected us were very friendly. I used to get a bowl of jelly fish from one of them for free for some reason. There were about 15 young Pakistani and Indian kids working for us who lived in East London.

    I have never had problems there. In fact, one person who also had a stall there tried to create some problem one day. He had parked his van so close to mine that my workers could not unload it. They went to my late brother who was much older than I was and told him what was happening. I was only 17 then but also managed allocating stalls for a Jewish owner of the covered parking lot, the job my brother was doing before. I was pretty well known there on that corner.

    Coming back to this imbecile, my brother came to me and told me what was happening and I told him I will sort things out. I went to his stall which was about 5 stalls away and asked him in these words," My friend, why did you park your van that close to mine and it made it impossible to unload it"? He said," you Indian ba...s". He could not finish sentence his when he felt the blood dripping down his nose. People around him, his cockney mates, restrained me from doing more damage The next Sunday when he came to park his van, I was there and he asked me very politely after apologising that and asked me if the distance was fine. He even called me Mr. Malik rather than Teji.:)

    We had a clothing business and stalls all over London in indoor markets plus wholesale business as importers. We even had a couple at Kings Road. In fact I met Tony Curtis there when he was visiting London and took a picture with him and sold him about a dozen cheese cloth shirts and blouses. I used to travel all over the UK from Monday to Thursday with my black turban on.

    Once I was on Isle of Wight during my weekly selling trips and found a Boatel, an interesting place to stay. Adjoining the boatel was a chic restaurant with a disco in another boat. The clerk said they had no vacancies which was untrue. I convinced him to call the manager. After some chit chat, I was given the balcony suite with discount. Some friends of mine had had planned to visit the Isle and we went for a dip in the ocean with my joora on the top. Spent all day there and had fun. Not even a hoot of any kind from anyone what so ever.

    I was one of the few to convince the stores like Biba’s and Barker’s at Kensington Street, Selfridges,Top Shop and many other chains to sell cheese cloth garments which were the in thing then. I sold them quite a few.

    I used to go daily to my local pub at Bayswater Road because our warehouse was on Portobello Road and was treated very well there too. Everyone knew me because of my turban.

    I was treated with the utmost respect everywhere, even as a VIP at the Playboy Club on Park Lane.:). I also used to visit other discos in Mayfair quite frequently. All the DJ’s became friends of mine by getting Gin & Tonic and played the music I liked.

    I never felt any discrimination while I lived there nor even when I used to visit it after having settled in Brasil where I spent 10 years – the only Sikh with a turban-and had no problems there either, rather to the contrary.

    Having said that, I know many felt discriminated and may still do. Some were even spat at when I was there and it is true. But my personal opinion wherever I have travelled to is that, it all depends on how you treat others.

    I am not saying people did not get discriminated, but your claims seem quite exaggerated according to my own personal experiences and I was there in the 70’s. Almost all the kids who worked with us on Saturdays at Portobello Road and on Sundays at Petticoat Lane, lived in public housing in East London and they never felt anything either the way you have mentioned so very often. And you know Petticoat Lane is East London.

    Regards

    Tejwant Singh
     
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  14. dalsingh1zero1

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    Let me be frank. I'm flabbergasted. I think you're either outright lying or projecting atypical personal experiences on to the matter possibly with a mixture of intrinsic idealism about humans. As a relatively rich guy swanning around East London, you probably got better treatment than most locals maybe? Fair enough.

    I grew up in, and still have most of my family in the East End. The amount of racist attacks I personally witnessed growing up I couldn't count. The violent retaliation and defense I saw from second generation Asians with my own eyes in the late 80s and early 90s involved stabbings, axings and serious violence. None of this is 'exaggerated'.

    Where do you think the term 'p@ki-bashing' originated from? Do you think it has no basis in actions? Do you recall the original emergence of Shere Panjab in Birmingham, Holy Smokes in Southall and other groups who originally formed to combat commonplace racist attacks, inspite of whatever they became later. Remember Gurdeep Singh Chaggar murdered in Southall in 1977?

    Maybe a reason for your misapprehension is that things may have got worse in the 80s than 70s. Whilst you may have mixed with the market stall brigade and instilled a bit of fear in them (good for you!), things were different at street level. Look it up if you disbelieve. The National Front was gaining popularity at the time. Did all of this escape you at the time? East London was notorious for anti-Asian racism - did this escape you too? Maybe you were to busy looking forward to fun at the playboy mansion to notice? I don't know?

    The skinhead movement started in East London. This should tell you a thing or two. Especially when it was actually someone who had adopted that very identity in the US who walked into a Gurdwara and murdered 7 innocent Sikhs in America recently.

    Remember the Newham 7? Qadas Ali, battered senseless and disfigured for life in Mile End? A Pakistani women burnt to death in her home in Walthamstow? What about sh1t being dumped on Asian doorsteps or through letter boxes? Don't take my word for it, do some research on anti Asian racism in the East End - it was famous - how the heck did you miss it? Did you not notice all the Anti Nazi League activity in the area? The NF marches? Plus East London is a big place, not just Petticoat Lane market. Poplar, Mile End, Bethnal Green, Stratford, Leyton, Walthamstow, Manor Park, East ham.

    Maybe because you were older and 'passing through' so to speak, you never saw much. And if you were around the Petticoat Lane area, I'm not surprised because the majority Bengalis around there seemed very meek. Actually if you recall, 'Asians' had a bit of a reputation for being meek pushovers until the mid/late 80s. A bit like US Sikhs today I guess.

    I think you may see things through rose tinted lenses, which says more about your own pleasant, idealistic nature than ground realities.

    You said: "Having said that, I know many felt discriminated and may still do" and you are right.

    The problem with people like you is that they wheeled out by racists or denialists as a tool to undermine those who try and highlight what has happened or is happening. I don't know if you are conscious of this or doing it subconsciously?
     
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  15. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh United States
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    Dal Singh ji,

    Guru Fateh.

    First and foremost, I have not seen so much anger full of froth from anyone. I am appalled at your behavior and if you call your frothing a Sikhi trait, then more shame on you. It is a pity and rather a shame that a well-articulated person like you would act in this manner rather than trying to interact in a decent manner so all can learn from the experiences we all have in our lives.

    Now let’s get to the facts.

    You write:

    It is a shame on your part to accuse others of liars without giving them the benefit of the doubt.

    Dal Singh, it shows a lot more about you than about anyone else.

    Lying about what? Please be brave and specify, otherwise be a true Sikh as you project to be and apologise. I am sharing my personal experiences, if you had different ones then come forward and share without frothing.

    I have no idea what “a mixture of intrinsic idealism about humans” means to you but for me it is part of a Sikhi trait which you claim is absent from your Sikhi.

    Utter nonsense. You are no different than others who jump to conclusions and have no guts to give the benefit of the doubt by asking questions, one more Sikhi trait you lack.

    FYI. I worked my **** off 7 days a week. I used to get up at 3am, go to different flea markets to sell the goods. I used to sell Indian carved tables during Christmas from door to door. I even used to buy trinkets to sell to the blacks of Reading who could not afford to pay me in one go, hence paid me in installments.

    Sad to notice that you have not the slightest notion about me and how I made my living, the only one way I knew that is by hard work. You talk like a phony stiff upper lipped Cockney to put it mildly. You are one angry man by nature and look to blame others for your own self cultivated ire and shortfalls it seems.

    Now you are changing your tune.Read my post. I am talking about the 70’s. It may have gotten the way you said it was but I am telling you how it was when I was there.

    I think you have no idea where the term originated from but I do. It started in Bradford and Leeds, the centre of Pakistanis then in 1971. Read your own history.

    What is your point here, I have no idea except showing your anger once again? I left UK in 1975 and before I left, Southall was a peaceful place.

    Now, you are coming to your senses about the times after frothing on yourself.

    It is funny, now you are changing your tune again and contradicting what you said before. Was that an asset or a downfall for Sikhs? Just think it over.:)

    Dal Singh, It seems you have trouble comprehending English. Read my post again. I never denied what happened to others. I am sharing my own experiences. Which part didn't you get so I can try it in a different way?

    Let me correct you here.It was not a mansion but a multi storey building on the corner of Park Lane. And Yes, you bet, I worked hard and partied even harder because I knew how to treat people of all hues. I was not afraid of anyone.

    Now you are mixing apples and oranges because you have run out of your ridiculous self concocted argument. It seems you want pity. I am sorry, I have nothing to offer you in that field.

    Just read on SPN what we did here on Wednesday and Thursday after the horrible Sunday shootings in Wisconsin.

    Please share with us what part you played for them as you have brought that into the equation. You must have done something for the victims of Wisconsin as a conscientious Sikh.

    It is funny how you like to attack and then justify your actions afterwards.
    Is working at the age of 15 in the flea markets around the country while getting up at 3am daily a bit older for you?

    I shared what I experienced when I lived there. You seem too insecure to admit the things I shared here because of your anger within, perhaps.

    So, what is your point? Now you admit what I said. Thanks.

    Sorry to see that you are just one angry man frothing on yourself for no rhyme or reason. Please learn to interact and share.

    Regards

    Tejwant Singh
     
    #14 Tejwant Singh, Jul 30, 2013
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2013
  16. dalsingh1zero1

    dalsingh1zero1
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    You seem to live in la la land.

    I'll leave you to it.
     
  17. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh United States
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    Nice cop out, as expected from a frothing man.
     
  18. dalsingh1zero1

    dalsingh1zero1
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    How you managed to swan around East London oblivious to what was going on around you says a lot. Honestly, I can't help but wonder if you were walking around in some sort of daze?

    The point still stands. Plenty of nonIslamic countries have been and can be pretty nasty places for Sikhs. How many murders and beatings of Sikhs have taken place in the US post 9/11 for example. England itself had serious race issues in the recent past despite some people apparently wondering around in some sort of daze through it all.

    Places where Islamic fundamentalism now leads to Sikhs being treated harshly like in the OP, weren't always like that. It appears as if Sikhs can fare quite well in at least some Islamic nations - one that comes to mind is Malaysia. Sikhs did very well in Afghanistan as cloth merchants apparently and were generally unmolested and even respected. Why did this change?

    Personally I can't help but conclude that the 'acceptance' or general tolerance of minorities is a frivolous thing which can quickly come and go in relation to economic and political changes. I see this being reflected not only in Afghanistan but also here around me in England today which is going through a gradual rightward turn for a variety of reasons including those political and economic.

    If the above observation is true, what does this mean for Sikhs globally? If this theory is right that means we can be rosy and cushy in a place one year and then, due to some changes, at the opposite end of the spectrum the next.

    What shall we/ can we do with this information?

    Are we going to become the new wandering Jews?
     
  19. dalsingh1zero1

    dalsingh1zero1
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  20. dalsingh1zero1

    dalsingh1zero1
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    From:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/e...n-gets-back-to-business-as-usual-1089685.html
     
  21. dalsingh1zero1

    dalsingh1zero1
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    http://www.20thcenturylondon.org.uk/bgate-swadhinata-trust-2-11-2

    http://www.20thcenturylondon.org.uk/bgate-swadhinata-trust-2-2-2
     
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