A Sikh Without His Flowing Hair And Turban

[Astroboy]

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/discourses-in-english/16516-kirtan-with-english-sub-titles-2.html

See the amazing kid doing keertan.

 

[TGill]

Amazingly beautiful !! but is that the answer to my question ?

 

[TGill]

Do I assume that there is no answer ??

 

[Astroboy]

Your answer lies in the thread called Women in Sikhism. It is a pdf file. Read it and you'll find your answers. A true seeker leaves no stone unturned. I am not good in summarizing the contents into a few lines.

 

[TGill]

SSA and thanks for the pdf.

I assume you are talking about the thread " Women in Sikh History"....


I have read the pdf, and I don't find any answer there.

I asked, please let me know if there is any script where Guruji has said to keep one's hair. One is in Dasam Granth, is there any other place as well ?

I respect the stories in there but I'm still struggling with my question.

Thanks

 

[Sherab]

SSA and thanks for the pdf.

I assume you are talking about the thread " Women in Sikh History"....


I have read the pdf, and I don't find any answer there.

I asked, please let me know if there is any script where Guruji has said to keep one's hair. One is in Dasam Granth, is there any other place as well ?

I respect the stories in there but I'm still struggling with my question.

Thanks

TGill-ji, here is your answer:

Guru Nanak started the tradition of keeping hair intact and covering the head with a turban. The rest of the Nine Gurus encouraged their Sikhs to do the same. The following quote from the Guru Granth Sahib (Adi Granth, the Sikh Holy Book) clearly shows that long before Guru Gobind Singh made it obligatory, the keeping of long hair and the wearing of a turban was actively preached by all the Gurus.

"Let living in God's presence, With mind rid of impurities, Be your discipline.
Keep the God-given form intact, With a turban donned on your head."
GGS Page 1084, Line 12




Please also see: Hair Power I



- Surinderjit





​

 

[rajinder singh saini]

I reside outside Punjab, in Uttarakhand. When I visit my relatives at Hoshiarpur I am shocked to see that none of their sons are kesadhari. We are also to blame. When some boys come to gurdwara with trimmed beards we oldies openly condemn them and they stop coming to Gurdwaras and one day they visit the barber. I am not in favour of trimming the beard but we must encourage these beard trimming or cleanshaven sikh boys to come to gurdwaras and proper frndy advise must be given. Our so called Sikh leaders are busy fighting each other and shamefully pulling each others beard and turban They dont have time for proper PRACHAR. In Nanakmatta Sahib we are unable to elect a committee due to infight and Uttarakhand Govt has been looking after it . SHAME

 

[TGill]

Sherab Ji.. can't thank you much...!!

The line you mentioned is this:
Naapaak Paak kar hadoor hadisa sabat soorat dastar sira ||

This means, purify what is impure, and let lord's presence be your religious tradition. Let your total awareness be the turban on your head.

which seems more of a mataphor and not what a person should physically appear as. Moreover, turban used to be an object of one's respectability during those times and hence the shabad. The context of the shabad is where Guruji explains who is a true Musalaman.

Please let me know if I am wrong. Can you please tell me from where did you find that wearing of turban and keeping hair was actively preached by Guruji.


Thanks a bunch again

 

[drkhalsa]

I reside outside Punjab, in Uttarakhand. When I visit my relatives at Hoshiarpur I am shocked to see that none of their sons are kesadhari. We are also to blame. When some boys come to gurdwara with trimmed beards we oldies openly condemn them and they stop coming to Gurdwaras and one day they visit the barber. I am not in favour of trimming the beard but we must encourage these beard trimming or cleanshaven sikh boys to come to gurdwaras and proper frndy advise must be given. Our so called Sikh leaders are busy fighting each other and shamefully pulling each others beard and turban They dont have time for proper PRACHAR. In Nanakmatta Sahib we are unable to elect a committee due to infight and Uttarakhand Govt has been looking after it . SHAME

Dear Rajinder Singh

That was really valuable psot infact each and every word was useful !
You are very right in saying that by condenming th young people we have have pushed them further away and acceptance of the Trimmers and monas with open arms is the first step to the preaching and rest follows surely . But we seems to take too uch in our own hand and mess up everything
While said all this I always tries to remind myself the fact that all this i happening as Willed by God and so will the solution of this problem





Jatinder Singh

 

[drkhalsa]

I asked, please let me know if there is any script where Guruji has said to keep one's hair. One is in Dasam Granth, is there any other place as well ?

Dear Friend

Are you looking for some script within Sri Guru Granth Sahib?

well if Yes then i would say there is hardly any chance as GUrbani there hardly deals with Physical issues regarding eating , drinking , what to wear what not But more regarding the How to relate to physical world .

But If your answer is no then there are other documents like Hukamnamas wher guruji called sikhs to Anadpur sahib and asked them to come there with Shastars and unshorn hairs


Well one more thing I would like to make clearfor my sake here

Do you think that all our Beloved Guru Sahibans Didint keep unshorn hairs. I mean that do you believe that there could be possibility that they cut there hair

Well if not then why are you looking for text . Do everthing that is to be done has to be penned down in text otherwise it is useless .If all our gurus lived there life in way than that is good enough reason ( atleast for me )


Thanks

Jatinder Singh

 

[TGill]

Jatinder Singh Ji...

I guessed it that Guru ji ( I mean Guru Granth sahib ji) won't talk about anything except the divine and physical appearance is way off ( and still such hue and cry on physical appearances which is ludicruous for me at least as of now).

Yes I was looking for the text like the hukamnama you mentioned. Can you please tell me where can I find the real text of this hukamnama ( I ask forgiveness for my naivety).

Well as far as all our Guruji keeping unshorn hair is concerned I'm not bothered at all. For physical appearance is not really a guru ( that is why no picture worshipping I assume ).

What I am looking for or rather confused about is whether keeping hair is something which Guruji really made a rule cos then It will be really important for me.

Thanks

 

[Sherab]

Sherab Ji.. can't thank you much...!!

The line you mentioned is this:
Naapaak Paak kar hadoor hadisa sabat soorat dastar sira ||

This means, purify what is impure, and let lord's presence be your religious tradition. Let your total awareness be the turban on your head.

which seems more of a mataphor and not what a person should physically appear as. Moreover, turban used to be an object of one's respectability during those times and hence the shabad. The context of the shabad is where Guruji explains who is a true Musalaman.

Please let me know if I am wrong. Can you please tell me from where did you find that wearing of turban and keeping hair was actively preached by Guruji.


Thanks a bunch again

Dear TGill-ji,

I think we are getting to distracted by implied meanings - for some, a literal turban is a tool, a reminder to become pure, just like a simran mala. However, the gift of kesh from God is good enough for me to keep it. It makes me his Sikh.

Second, as soon as we discriminate - literal and un-literal, what else would we apply that too?

God, yeah, he's not literal, it's okay - or something similar can be taken out of contest, because according top SGGS, God has no form, yet has a thousand.

Does this mean because god is in all, god is in Brahma, therefore we should all get idols of Brahma in our homes?

I may be getting off topic, so to come back to the point at hand:

A. Literal or not, keeping a turban was mentioned by SGGS.

B. it is part of tradition, the 5 K's. Not everything needs to be written down for it to be true - there is still oral tradition. And for something as simple as not cutting one's hair, it's not like it's "controversial" or "life threatening" to keep your hair.

C. Turban may or may not be worn, but however - i do encourage you to keep your hair, whether you want a turban, or not - just do not cut it, and you're okay. However, if you take Amrit, it IS required to don the turban.

D. I would feel the need to be reminded of God as often as possible - what is better then a turban for that?

- Surinderjit

 

[TGill]

Thanks Surinderjit ji ...

The divine will gave me hair, I will keep them and I will be in tune with the divine will, I can't agree more....
but then the same divine will gave me nails (earlier there was no need to cut them cos we worked a lot and they themselves got clipped) but now we need to clip cos we don't work that much physically, isn't that against divine will.
Divine will gave us skin and hair on the skin as well to protect the skin and so many other things, we still wear clothes and have no faith in divine protection, isn't this against the will...
Divine will gave us appendix to eat raw meat, we started cooking our food and started not to use the organ any more. Isn't that against divine will.

I'm not saying that keeping hair is life threatening but then it should be a part of personal freedom if it not that important to be a true sikh. Or otherwise it should be somewhere which tells me that it is really important to grow hair as per Guruji. I am so sorry I can't stop doubting the very basic thing of keeping one's hair...

I really can't thank you enough for your time and novel thoughts...

 

[Sherab]

Thanks Surinderjit ji ...

The divine will gave me hair, I will keep them and I will be in tune with the divine will, I can't agree more....
but then the same divine will gave me nails (earlier there was no need to cut them cos we worked a lot and they themselves got clipped) but now we need to clip cos we don't work that much physically, isn't that against divine will.
Divine will gave us skin and hair on the skin as well to protect the skin and so many other things, we still wear clothes and have no faith in divine protection, isn't this against the will...
Divine will gave us appendix to eat raw meat, we started cooking our food and started not to use the organ any more. Isn't that against divine will.

I'm not saying that keeping hair is life threatening but then it should be a part of personal freedom if it not that important to be a true sikh. Or otherwise it should be somewhere which tells me that it is really important to grow hair as per Guruji. I am so sorry I can't stop doubting the very basic thing of keeping one's hair...

I really can't thank you enough for your time and novel thoughts...

Tgill-ji, however, the nails do break, and can harm your work - i too did not clip my nails when i did not work.

However, for heath reasons, you should cut your nails. It's not a matter of divine will, all the time - there is cleanliness. and as for keeping kesh, it is kept clean by making sure we wear a turban, and comb our hair twice a day, and washing it at least twice a week, or more if your hair is shorter.

- Surinderjit

 

[TGill]

Or by cutting your hair so that you can wash them daily

 

[Sherab]

Or by cutting your hair so that you can wash them daily

Washing your hair daily actually hurts your hair - thats what the word on the street is now, after some testing was done.

- Surinderjit

PS. if you really must cut your hair, go ahead and be like the 80%. But i assure you, if the Sikhs who were martyred just so we can keep long hair would alive, i do not want to see their expression of so called "Sikhs" who cut their hair.

 

[drkhalsa]

Yes I was looking for the text like the hukamnama you mentioned. Can you please tell me where can I find the real text of this hukamnama ( I ask forgiveness for my naivety).

I will try to find for you .( can take time ..bit busy nowdays)

Well as far as all our Guruji keeping unshorn hair is concerned I'm not bothered at all. For physical appearance is not really a guru ( that is why no picture worshipping I assume

).

What I am looking for or rather confused about is whether keeping hair is something which Guruji really made a rule cos then It will be really important for me.

If this how you feel : my advise dont stress yourself do whatever you like and be your own guru ( dont get me wrong here ) Its is alos valid path to be GUru to yourself but remember its difficult one for other its not possible to call somebody guru and then totally reject there physical form becuse this is where you have to start ( just cant fly straight away ) Offcourse Keeping hair dont make you spirtual but its not useless in all the cases ( if you are interested i can recoomed a small read on this issue Say Sat sri akal - Live with Truth, achieve all Treasures and merge in Eternity there is link KES)

Dont look for any hard and fast rule .there are hardly any

What you are expecting out of sikhism to do to your life?you want to achieve something ? or you want to be in good books of so called puran sikhs?
make it clear for yourself .as all thses require compulsary rules

The divine will gave me hair, I will keep them and I will be in tune with the divine will, I can't agree more....
but then the same divine will gave me nails (earlier there was no need to cut them cos we worked a lot and they themselves got clipped) but now we need to clip cos we don't work that much physically, isn't that against divine will.

One more thing brothet
Everything is divine will even cuting somebody throat is not out of that
In my understanding you can just be aware of DIVINE WILL and that it rest is done by it as always there is no choice you just cant go against it you can just resist and create suffering tring oposing it

Or by cutting your hair so that you can wash them daily

if this is what gives you happinesscant try it and then remain aware of it and see did it really gave you what you were expecting

I am sure results will be interesting as in my experience the things that we ususally think to give some fesh breath of happiness fail to do so if we really see it with awareness .

Rest assured no body can take you chance to meet Lord/Akal /or being enlightened even if you cut everything unecessary ( in medical field appendix , wisdom tooth were thought to be so ...but now there alos considewred essential .....he he jsut Joking )

Take care my friend


Jatinder Singh

 

[Archived_Member_19]

<<if the Sikhs who were martyred just so we can keep long hair would alive, i do not want to see their expression of so called "Sikhs" who cut their hair.>>

i have a question


were the martyrs ready to give their lives for hair or their beliefs?

there is a thin line distinguishing both...so make a choice.

 

[Sherab]

<<if the Sikhs who were martyred just so we can keep long hair would alive, i do not want to see their expression of so called "Sikhs" who cut their hair.>>

i have a question


were the martyrs ready to give their lives for hair or their beliefs?

there is a thin line distinguishing both...so make a choice.

Both.

Having the hair shows your willingness of taken Amrit that makes you a Sikh - which includes the beliefs.

So, again - it is both. However, if you had longer hair, but no beliefs for Sikhi, why fight against the Mughal's over Sikhi in the first place?

 

[TGill]

Thanks Jatinder ji,

I'll wait for your reply and the text.

I said I'm not bothered about the way Guruji looked, who knows how they looked like, they said shabad is the Guru (sIdh Ghost) .. So I need not be my own Guru by not beleiving in Guru's physical apperance, cos shabad can still be my Guru.... isn't it ?

The thing I'm asking is really simple, my quest is to find out if Guruji really emphasized so much on keepin one's hair, cos otherwise we are just following a blind ritual without even knowing the truth.

As for the logic given out by the people to keep hair to be sikh is very bogus.... and this very poor logic is what makes me confused.. !!