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A Sikh Without His Flowing Hair And Turban

May 30, 2007
81
8
where are you getting all this from? :confused:

sleeping late and waking early is not very healthy, eating less is even worse. on top of that you say that Khalsa must do heavy work during the day and not sleep at all. :hmm: if tayaar bar tayaar khalsa means that khalsa is deprived of sleep and nutrition then khalsa is not really tayaar

My dear friend u have very poor reading n grasping.Read my comments again n again what I have written.I have added Gurbani lines for evidence so why an ambiguity covers U.U don't have trust in ur Guru who created U.Follow either this world or Guru.Choice is Urs.:cool:
 
May 30, 2007
81
8
By eating less Guru meant not overloading every time u eat ur meal n eating only at times n not eating n drinking frequently anytime the way this world do now-a-days.Guru Said eat light only when u feel very hungry n not at other times.

U should start using ur own mind rather that than asking like kids.Noone is going to spoon feed U.Read Gurubani n understand urself or experiment on urself to find what is the best amount of meal n what timings r perfect whole day.Ur trust in guru will teach U the best.
U should remember that most of the problems humans r sufferring from now r coming from over-eating including colon cancer.:advocate:
 

SuburbanSikh

SPNer
Jun 7, 2007
2
0
London, UK
I got to rate our Brothers in Espniola and California, they are a convert sikhs and the wonderful thing about them is that they don't have the friction of the Punjabi Culture to deal with. Faith and Culture is not the same thing.

I truley believe, Nowadays, Being Punjabi and a Sikh are not necassarily the same thing.

One is regional the other is faith.. This is prodomenantly where the confusion lies.

The convert sikhs are very much orthadox and they realise the value of their faith because they have learnt and adopted to it and truley belief it has substance and deep importance in their life ot atain a far greater level then just being human.

I think fundamentally, our culture and the perception some of piers are driving which limit and disinterest todasy youth from actually seeing the "Real GEM" hidden in the mist which is this world.

Modernisation is described as : the condition that results from being modern.
The word modern is described as : relating to people or things from modern times and not from some time in the past

The ideas of faith, is one of belief - in any faith as tiem goes on the BELIEF does should not vary irrespective of the technologies, societies and communities.

I think there are a lot of areas which add to the state of our Youth today.

No one person can know all history, know all sides of every argument ever conseived, know all people in the argument and their history adn relationship to the subject.. This is SIMPLY why the Tenth Master passed on his Guru Gadhi to "Guru Granth Sahb jee" true to when it was compiled, it will remains the same and it will remain the same..

This is the unity which ties us all together - this is the reasons our faith exists..

We seldom take time out to understand the knowledge, experience and awakening our guru offers us.

WJKKWJKF

Gee
 
May 30, 2007
81
8
I got to rate our Brothers in Espniola and California, they are a convert sikhs and the wonderful thing about them is that they don't have the friction of the Punjabi Culture to deal with. Faith and Culture is not the same thing.
:) WHAT DO U MEAN BY FRICTION.ONCE U R IN SIKHI U R A FAMILY MEMBER OF SIKHS N SO WHY COMES THE CONCEPT OF FRICTION.IT IS UR OWN MIND CREATED CONCEPT MY FRIEND.THERE IS NO FRICTION IN SIKHS.SIKHS R MOST WONDERFUL PEOPLE IN THE WORLD WITH IMMENSE TOLERANCE N LOVE FOR ALL MANKIND BUT STILL HOLD STRONG FAITH IN GUR'S WORDS.:cool:


I truley believe, Nowadays, Being Punjabi and a Sikh are not necassarily the same thing.

I have no idea what u mean by that.It is foolish people who differentiated between punjabis n sikhs.Sikhs belong to punjab -their main land n punjabi is their language.Any sikh belonging to punjab is also called a punjabi but some foolish Sikhs who don't want to follow guru turned themselves into punjabis (more prominently than good sikhs)because they have no other term left for them to be called becoz they lost their best term-A SIKH by cutting their hairs,following wrong tracks n disobeying guru to the max.Now nowhere to go they started calling themselves as PUNJABIS.In fact they r lost sikhs in true sense n there is no term PUNJABI that can be used for them.So my friend SIKHS r also punjabis as they belong to punjab n speak punjabi.Lost sikhs r also punjabis but the best term to be used for them is LOST SIKHS-suits them better.

One is regional the other is faith.. This is prodomenantly where the confusion lies.TOTALLY ABSURD N BASELESS STATEMENT.:crazy: SIKH AND LOST-SIKH ARE BETTER TERMS INSTEAD TO BE USED.BOTH BELONG TO SAME REGION N SAME FAITH. :cool:

The convert sikhs are very much orthadox and they realise the value of their faith because they have learnt and adopted to it and truley belief it has substance and deep importance in their life ot atain a far greater level then just being human.DONOT AGREE WITH U.MAYBE TRUE TO SOME EXTENT THOU BUT NOT FULLY.I AM A SIKH BY BIRTH N A VERY GOOD SIKH OF GURU WHO REALLY FOLLOW HIS GURU.WAKE UP VERY EARLY AT 2 OR 4 O'CLOCK N MEDITATE,LISTEN TO SHABAD TILL MORNING ARRIVES,EAT LESS N DRINK LESS AS PER GURU'S BANI,SLEEP LESS,N LOT MORE.IN WHAT WAY I AM LESS THAN WHO HAVE FRESHLY ENTERED IN SIKHI.


I think fundamentally, our culture and the perception some of piers are driving which limit and disinterest todasy youth from actually seeing the "Real GEM" hidden in the mist which is this world.

:)MY DEAR FRIEND SIKHI IS TOO DEEP N NEED LOT OF ANALYSIS BEFORE SOMETHING IS PUT FORWARD BEFORE SIKH AUDIENCE N SO TRY TO BE MORE DEEP.IN FACT SIKHI(PATHS SET BY OUR GURUS) IS TOO DIFFICULT N SO MANY R LOST IN VERY BEGINNING BUT TOUGHERS STAY N MARCH AHEAD. YOUTHS WITH POOR SIKHI FOUNDATIONS R FIRST TO DEVIATE FROM SIKHI.

:advocate:YOUTH DO GET LOST ONCE TO FIGURE OUT WHAT IS ON THE OTHER SIDE OR OUTSIDE OF SIKHI BUT STRONG FOUNDATIONS LAID IN MANY BRING THEM BACK WHILE OTHERS GET LOST IN MIST


Modernisation is described as : the condition that results from being modern.
The word modern is described as : relating to people or things from modern times and not from some time in the past.
There is nothing like modernisation that affects sikhs but weak roots do affect sikhs a lot.I moved to USA with strong roots of sikhi within me laid by my parents n I am still on path of sikhi.Strong Foundations r important for strong sikhs n once a sikh boy or girl is grown up with strong foundations of sikhi laid in them by their parents n sikh society he/she will explore their true path of sikhi by themselves still further on their own.

The ideas of faith, is one of belief - in any faith as tiem goes on the BELIEF does should not vary irrespective of the technologies, societies and communities. TOTALLY AGREE WITH U.AGAIN COME STRONG FOUNDATIONS LAID AT ANY TIME SPAN OF LIFE PARTICULARLY CHILDHOOD.

I think there are a lot of areas which add to the state of our Youth today.

:DIF ONE TRUELY FOLLOWS GURU'S WORDS THEY WILL TOTALLY REFINE ONE'S MIND N SO PATHS IN LIFE R SET RIGHT WITHOUT ANY DEVIATION OF THIS WORLD DIRT.:cool:

No one person can know all history, know all sides of every argument ever conseived, know all people in the argument and their history adn relationship to the subject.. This is SIMPLY why the Tenth Master passed on his Guru Gadhi to "Guru Granth Sahb jee" true to when it was compiled, it will remains the same and it will remain the same..

:advocate: WHOLE THING REVOLVES AROUND CONQUERERING SELF N THAT IS ALL GURU 'S WORD ALL ABOUT N ASK A SIKH TO DO.FOLLOWING GURU IS THE ONLY DIFFICULT PART WHERE MANY FAILS BECOZ MANY DON'T LEARN TO WORK MORE ON THEIR MIND,SELF,MIND CONTROL,MIND TAMING N DEVIATING IT ON GURU'S TRACKS.ALL DIFFERENCES IN SIKHS R JUST BECOZ THEY DON'T FOLLOW GURU BUT FOLLOW THEIR OWN MIND MORE.UNITY COMES IN WORKING ON SELF N MAKING ONESELF FOLLOW GURU AS GURU DISSOLVES ALL DIFFERENCES N ABMIGUITIES OF MIND.:cool:


This is the unity which ties us all together - this is the reasons our faith exists..

We seldom take time out to understand the knowledge, experience and awakening our guru offers us.

WJKKWJKF

Gee

SAT SHRI AKAL
 

BhagatSingh

SPNer
Apr 24, 2006
2,921
1,655
My dear friend u have very poor reading n grasping.Read my comments again n again what I have written.I have added Gurbani lines for evidence so why an ambiguity covers U.U don't have trust in ur Guru who created U.Follow either this world or Guru.Choice is Urs.:cool:

I may have poor reading and grasping but uhave not shown where u r getting that info from. U havent shown where in GGS it says that, page #, etc ,which is wut iasked for.:}:):
 

BhagatSingh

SPNer
Apr 24, 2006
2,921
1,655
By eating less Guru meant not overloading every time u eat ur meal n eating only at times n not eating n drinking frequently anytime the way this world do now-a-days.Guru Said eat light only when u feel very hungry n not at other times.

U should start using ur own mind rather that than asking like kids.Noone is going to spoon feed U.Read Gurubani n understand urself or experiment on urself to find what is the best amount of meal n what timings r perfect whole day.Ur trust in guru will teach U the best.
U should remember that most of the problems humans r sufferring from now r coming from over-eating including colon cancer.:advocate:
well sorry for asking mate:mad:
 
Feb 19, 2007
494
888
75
Delhi India
Seems like people are really insecure about themselves!

http://www.outlookindia.com/full.asp...28F%29&sid= 1

sikh_boy_haircut_beas_20061023.jpg

"A young Sikh boy gets his hair cut at the local barber in a village near Beas"


One is often told that a Sikh without his flowing hair and turban is like a king without a crown.

But, across Punjab, and more so in the countryside, young members of the community are giving up the most visible religious symbol of Sikh identity—long hair and the turban. The trend, which has been growing in the last four to five years, has reached "epidemic" proportions and now has the Sikh religious leadership worried. So much so that desperate campaigns have been launched to revive the use of the turban.

When Outlook began examining this trend, Sikh organisations engaged in saving the turban estimated that about 80 per cent of the Sikh youth in rural Punjab have cut their hair and discarded their headgear. An exaggeration, one thought. But president of the Shiromani Gurudwara Prabandhak Committee (SGPC), the highest decision-making body for the Sikhs, Avtar Singh Makkar, confirms this trend.

"With a turban on his head, a Sikh will feel guilty of breaching his faith. Its absence frees him from such qualms." Akal Takht Jathedar Joginder Singh Vedanti

He told Outlook: "Yes, it's true that in many places about 80 per cent of Sikh youth have indeed cut their hair. Sadly the 'dastaar bandhi samaagam' (a turban-tying ceremony for young boys), too, has become rare in villages because very few boys of 13 or 14 years of age have long hair."

Does this mean that the day is not far when a Sikh village in Punjab won't have a single turbaned male to show? This is not just in the realm of possibility but an inescapable reality according to a dismayed and rather helpless Sikh leadership.

But why are Sikhs, otherwise very dedicated to their religion, saying goodbye to turbans and going in for haircuts? Scholars say it is a combination of various factors, both social and economic, at play. The most common reason cited is the convenience of not having to go through the elaborate rigmarole of maintaining a beard and tying a turban. Says Baldev Singh, the patriarch of a large family in Adliwal near Amritsar, "Except I and my two brothers, all our sons and grandsons have shorn their hair.

It does pain me to see my family like this but no one listens to us nowadays." His daughter-in-law Roominder Kaur is quite happy with a clean-shaven son as she doesn't have to go through the tedium of combing and tying his hair each morning.

joginder_singh_vedanti_20061023.jpg


"The SGPC has given up its traditional role of preserving Sikh values and heritage and is more embroiled in politics."

Everyone agrees that the turban problem is acute in the villages where the land-owning Jat peasantry resides. One reason, perhaps, is the rural Punjabi youth's overriding desire to go West. Sikh scholars feel that in the aftermath of 9/11, when Sikhs are being mistaken for Muslims and attacked for sporting a beard and turban, there is a tendency among members of the community to adopt a more assimilative appearance so that they "look like others". It becomes easier to get past immigration. What a crock of sh*t!!!

If a person holds these dear to himself, then he will never shed them, but unfortunately there is no one nowadays to teach the youth all this. "

sikh_boys_turban_20061023.jpg


Ironically, the trend of clean-shaven Sikhs has picked up in Punjab at a time when the community is engaged in an international campaign to create awareness about the Sikh identity and the importance of wearing religious symbols like the turban and kirpan. Following the ban on wearing turbans in French schools in 2004, and also several cases of hate crimes against Sikhs after 9/11, Sikh organisations began a drive to create awareness about the Sikh faith in Europe, US and Australia.

When the French ban was announced, Sikh organisations—political, social and religious—in India and abroad protested. On the urging of the SGPC, PM Manmohan Singh, too, took up the issue with the French government. But as Jaswinder Singh, an SGPC member and president of the Akal Purakh Ki Fauj (an organisation engaged in popularising turbans and long hair in Punjab), points out, "If the French government comes to know of the situation in Punjab now, it will be embarrassing for us. How can we fight for the right to wear long hair and turbans abroad when people are abandoning the same in the home of Sikhism?"

Is a Sikh without his 'kesh' or long hair a lesser Sikh? In popular parlance, a clean-shaven Sikh is a 'patit' or an apostate. Says Professor Sher Singh of the Institute of Sikh Studies, "Of all the five Ks—'kesh, kada, kirpan, kangha and kachh'—which Guru Gobind Singh had made mandatory for all Sikhs to wear, the 'kesh' comes first and is foremost and indispensable to a Sikh's identity. Without the 'kesh', the other symbols are meaningless."

In recent years, several organisations have sprung up in Punjab to revive the tradition of keeping long hair and wearing turbans. The 'Kesh Sambhal Prachaar Sanstha' is one such outfit which, among other things, runs two turban-tying schools in Jalandhar and Amritsar, where young Sikhs are taught how to tie a turban. Says the Sanstha secretary, Sukhdev Singh Sandhawalia, "The most common excuse boys give for cutting their hair is that they don't know how to tie a turban."

Another organisation holds a popular competition to select 'Mr Singh International' which is open only for turbaned Sikhs. Among other things, the contestants have to participate in a round called 'Meri Dastaar, Meri Shaan, Meri Pehchaan' (My turban, my pride, my identity) where they are judged on how well their turbans are tied. The latest champion of the turban and long hair in Punjab is former cricketer and the BJP's Lok Sabha MP from Amritsar, Navjot Singh Sidhu, who held a procession in Amritsar to revive the use of turbans and instil a sense of pride in Punjabi youth in wearing one. Ironically, Sidhu is under flak for trimming his beard and allowing his son to cut his hair

sikh_family_amritsar_20061023.jpg

"A typical rural scenario—the patriarch of a large family (in turban) with his sons and grandsons who got their hair cut in Adliwal village near Amritsar"

Why and how did things come to such a pass? Many feel the custodians of the Sikh heritage like the SGPC cannot escape criticism. Says G.S. Lamba, Sikh scholar and editor of Sant Sipahi, a popular Sikh community journal: "The SGPC has abandoned its traditional role of preserving Sikh values and heritage and is more embroiled in politics. When the Shiromani Akali Dal (SAD) abdicated its role as a religious party and adopted a secular garb, the SGPC should have taken its religious duties seriously.

But unfortunately it's the other way around. The SGPC has become an organ of the SAD, and has neglected preaching in villages. It's also shameful that the two are projecting a 'patit' like Navjot Singh Sidhu as a role model for the Sikh youth for the coming elections."

He points to the recent controversy over Harbhajan Singh appearing in an advertisement with his hair open as an example. "This shows the SGPC's double standards. They are picking on Harbhajan Singh just to get some good publicity with the Sikh masses. If they are serious about the issue, they should start by taking action against the families of the SGPC members who have shorn hair and also the clean-shaven cadres of the SAD."

Though Harbhajan Singh apologised to the Sikh clergy for the offending representation in the advertisement, his comment on the matter is telling. "I apologise if I have hurt the feelings of my people, but why should the SGPC compare me with Monty Panesar (English cricketer of Sikh origin who sports a turban and beard) and not Yuvraj Singh and singer Gurdas Mann both of whom have cut their hair?"

Clearly, the situation has gone beyond hair-splitting as rural Punjab's tryst with the barber keeps growing. The land-owning Jat Sikhs have all but shed the turban, whereas the more conservative trading 'Khatri Sikhs' in urban areas are less inclined towards the new trend. One reason is that most of the Sikh gurus were 'Khatris' or from the trading community which is why this section of Sikhs are more staunch believers.

But go to rural Punjab and there are some tell-tale indicators of change. Where earlier, the sole barber in a village had to supplement his income by selling sweetmeats, now, most villages have three to four barbers. The feisty land-owning Punjabi Jat farmer has always been known for his enterprise and desire to try new things. True to form, it is he who is leading the 'no turban' trend even though it makes him an apostate in the eyes of his religion.
The main culprits for this are members of SGPC and DSGMC. Both are poor role models for Sikh youth. it is open secret that their family members are poor adherents of Sikh faith and that they too openly consume alchohol which was strictly prohibited by Guru Gobind Singh as much he banned the use of tobbacco. it is a shame that the Punjab government takes pride in the fact that liqour consumption is the highest in Punjab!
 

Neet84

SPNer
Jun 16, 2007
10
0
In regards to what SuburbanSikh mentioned, I agree in the most part. In addition I think the argument of differentiatingbetween what a Sikh is and what a Punjabi person is, is best seen by those who don't actually live in Punjab. While the two are often in synergy of one another they do not equate to the same; in fact being a "typical Punjabi" (in terms of conforming to a drinking culture (often more proud to be a jatt than Sikh-think we all know some ppl that fit this definition))can often be the opposite of being a Sikh. The reason why those of us who live outside Punjab can see this with greater clarity is because we live in a wider culture so can identify the differences of punjabi culture/ english culture/youth culture/british asian culture etc and Sikhi. The friction between culture and religion occurs because of a variety of conflicting factors (peers, general uni life, family etc), although I think it is more of a youth issue.

Fivelovedones-I can sort of see where you are coming from, although I feel that in order to re-connect with the so-called "lost Sikhs" there needs to be a greater understanding as to why people drifted from their faith and only then can we begin to change the current trend.
 
Feb 19, 2007
494
888
75
Delhi India
A Sikh has to be a Sikh both from his value systems and his external appearences to be true Sikh.

We should have the confidence to be proud of our unique identity.

But what is the reality? Most well known "Sikhs", members of SGPC, DSGMC etc are poor role models. Members of their families are not adherants of true Sikhism. They openly indulge in consumption of alcohol and other intoxitants. In fact Punjab boasts of highest liquor consumption in the entire country!

The external appearences should be associated with a life full of moral purpose, of humility, piety and free from rapacious indulgence. As soon as anyone sees a Sikh he should be able to associate such noble qualities with him and a Sikh should not let him down.

Only when the young Sikhs see such sterling role models they will proudly adopt the external identity and defend it among his peers!

Raj karega Khalsa!
 

Borneo Sikha

SPNer
Jul 29, 2007
4
1
Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki fateh

I think sikhs who have cut off their long hair should be ashamed. i used to be a crop and truth be told i was so ashamed when i saw 3 westerners in amritsar 6 years ago who were Khalsas'. that made me think and 2 years ago i took the step to keep my hair and it has not been easy. non of my family members have long hair or a turban except for 2 uncles and my late grandfather. But i choose to keep my hair to embrace Sikhi and to maintain our identity and also my grandfathers good name and i hope by doing so ill see more of my family members doing so. i was encouraged by another friend who was a crop and who has long hair now. but i cant force anyone, but i will encourage them. i feel we should encourage the younger ppl to do the right thing and let them choose.
If it took one sikh's encouragement and a couple of years to sink in to my head, i know we can once again have more sikhs to keep their hair. So ppl try to encourage at least one sikh a year and u will find more ppl like me keeping their hair again.

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki fateh
 
Feb 19, 2007
494
888
75
Delhi India
Dear Max,

It sure is a personal choice that anyone should keep his hair or not. And ofcourse nobody has a right to despise you if you do not keep it.
But my tenth Guru, Guru Gobind Singh Ji has given the Sikhs a unique, distinct and Majestic identity that Sikhs have to have if they are to be called Sikhs.
So if you wish to be known as a Sikh then among other essential codes of conduct, you also have to keep kesh.
And we need not worry, people will not for ever be driven away from Sikhism . Most will return to its fold and the numbers shall grow. My gurus will ensure it for the good of mankind.

Harbans
 

TGill

SPNer
Jul 31, 2007
240
2
I am totally confused, please clarify:

Guruji himself said:
Kes dhare na mile har pyare : Akal ustat

As far as enlightened people and not cutting hair is concerned: Buddha was clean shaven, kabir ji in many pictures is shown as trimmed beard.

Why such a hue and cry over cutting of hair !!

Guruji said "Raheni rahe soi sikh mera, o sahib hao uska chera"
Seems more to me as if he is saying : The one who submits to the divine will is my true sikh !!
 

Sherab

SPNer
Mar 26, 2007
441
20
USA
I am totally confused, please clarify:

Guruji himself said:
Kes dhare na mile har pyare : Akal ustat

As far as enlightened people and not cutting hair is concerned: Buddha was clean shaven, kabir ji in many pictures is shown as trimmed beard.

Why such a hue and cry over cutting of hair !!

Guruji said "Raheni rahe soi sikh mera, o sahib hao uska chera"
Seems more to me as if he is saying : The one who submits to the divine will is my true sikh !!
The Buddha did have long hair.
However - one of the major 32 marks of a Buddha, as well as a wheel turning king, as defined in the Shravka Tripitaka is that "he has a head shaped like a turban".

He though to leave Maya you have to leave the world behind, so he cut off his hair and became an ascetic for the next 5+ years.

Also, according to Sikhism, because the Buddha rejected God as being real, or in the highest place of authority, he could bot carry out God's hukam so the veil of maya could not be torn away.

However, his method of questions greatly influences my logic.

- Surinderjit
 
May 30, 2007
81
8
Yes u r right my friend that one who submit to his Divine wish completely alone meets the Lord n to meet the Lord one needs a Guru to Guide one all along his journey of life.Right now our Guru is Gurubani himself n so we need not wander around for truth n enlightenment.
Budda never had any guru to guide him the proper way n without guru onone can ever meet the Guru.BTW Who knows if Budda met the lord.Without accepting a true guru noone can,says gurubani.(Only with Guru Prasad only one meets the Lord).Nowhere in Gurubani has any Guru stated about Budda who was from India although our guru mentioned all saints n sufis n others from India in Gurubani.That means he didn't met the Lord.Guru talked about krishna who came long before our gurus n only stated him as a simple man n no god(that foolish hindus consider as God avatar).Guru has mentioned all saints who were truely in tune with the Lords 's ways like Bhagat Kabir,Ravidas,etc.All have surrendered to the wishes n ways of the Waheguru n so they were all in the true form of the God with all complete hairs.If someone has made a picture of Bhagat Kabir as with no beard then that is one fool's creation.All saints who have been mentioned in Gurubani were all in complete form.So my dear friend leave all ambiguities n be in ur complete form n be complete in actions the Guru stated.U need to be a Saint + a Soldier.:)

If Guruji has said that without Hairs Waheguru cannot be met then it really means that Guru cannot be found without complete surrender to his wishes.Have full trust in ur Guru beyond anything else or anyone else-photos n other stuff from foolish hindus n others.

KES DARE NA MILE HAR PYARE.


REHNI RAHE SOHE SIKH MERA
O SAHIB HOA USKA CHERA

SAT SIRI AKALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLAAA





I am totally confused, please clarify:

Guruji himself said:
Kes dhare na mile har pyare : Akal ustat

As far as enlightened people and not cutting hair is concerned: Buddha was clean shaven, kabir ji in many pictures is shown as trimmed beard.

Why such a hue and cry over cutting of hair !!

Guruji said "Raheni rahe soi sikh mera, o sahib hao uska chera"
Seems more to me as if he is saying : The one who submits to the divine will is my true sikh !!
 

Sherab

SPNer
Mar 26, 2007
441
20
USA
Budda never had any guru to guide him the proper way n without guru onone can ever meet the Guru.BTW Who knows if Budda met the lord.
To clear things up, he had 2 human gurus as well as the lineages of tantra.

However, i think Sikhism remain very afraid if something has a true lineage - whether or not he had a guru does not make it correct.

I am a bit of a supporter of Buddhism, however as I think the "raised and born" sikhs can learn alot from th thinking and logic he used - but that's as far as it goes.
 

TGill

SPNer
Jul 31, 2007
240
2
Thanks for clarifying but confusion still remains -

U say guruji has said waheguru can't be met without having hair - I think that is completely wrong as Guruji has said:


Kabir preet ik sio kiye aan dubida jaye. Bhanvein lambe kes kar bhave gharrar mudaey. - That is what guruji says

I was looking for some script where Guruji has actually said that you should keep hair, I haven't found any... Please tell me where is it written. That will be a great help.

I don't wanna be a hypocrat, unless the doubt is gone how can I have a complete faith cos otherwise it will just be a blind faith, which is totally against Guru's teachings.
 

drkhalsa

SPNer
Sep 16, 2004
1,308
54
am a bit of a supporter of Buddhism, however as I think the "raised and born" sikhs can learn alot from th thinking and logic he used - but that's as far as it goes


Agree with you my friend there is lot of stuff in there that just makes you present in the moment so kind of shock therapy as I call it .Also In past I was very keen in reading Taoism is also excellent tool

Anyway this is out of disscusion as far as this topic is concerned



what I have to say about hair thingee


I consider that Elightened being like our very beloved Guru ji spoke and wrote for everybody so are guide to all walks of life including monks and householders

But of course they lived their lives in particular way and that definately influenced people around them or you can call then devout seekers .So they adapted to living style of our Sahibaans and that included keeping long hairs and living as householder .
This is np conpiracy that so many peoples in sikh history and till now keep long hairs obviously it is tradition from the time of our gurus

Said all that even all this does not make it essential for any body to keep hair to realise the truth or GOD.
If this makes somebody happy and at ease that they have cut hair and still equal in eye of God then let it be


Jatinder Singh
 

drkhalsa

SPNer
Sep 16, 2004
1,308
54
I was looking for some script where Guruji has actually said that you should keep hair, I haven't found any... Please tell me where is it written. That will be a great help.

if you really looking for that
Its there in dasam granth ( probably closing part ) where Beloved Guruji warned his Sikhs against HAZAMAT along with other kurehats ( Exact location text I help find out if you r interested )

But Big question is that many of sikhs dont agree dasam granth to be Gururji Writings?!

I
don't wanna be a hypocrat, unless the doubt is gone how can I have a complete faith cos otherwise it will just be a blind faith, which is totally against Guru's teachings.



For me I dont have to worry about Blind thing...why?..because I am myself Blind so that leaves only option that the thing I put my faith in should not be blind



Thanks


Jatinder Singh
Thanks
 

TGill

SPNer
Jul 31, 2007
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Thanks Jatinder Singh ji,

but how do you know that the thing u have faith in is not blind unless u have absolutely no doubt about it. !!

What I'm trying to say is that at one end people have the logic to say that dasam granth is not guruji original composition, and on the other hand there is such a hue and cry about not cutting hair (the original source of which is Dasam granth itself).

I don't know if Guruji actually wrote dasam granth but then at the same time I don't know if he really said to not cut your hair.

Please let me know if there is any script where it is written by Guruji not to cut one's hair. It will be an immense help !
 

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