21-Mar-2008, 23:30 PM
|  | .jpg) ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap) | | | Enrolled: Jul 14th, 2007
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| |  | | | Contradictions of Opinion
The spiritual Ks that please God
Something I and every Sikh soon realises is that there are alot of contradictions in the religion.
This confuses the seeker and many get disillusioned and leave the path. Or just carry on the path but never dig deeper to really understand the deeper divine wisdom.
For example take the 5Ks, they are very visible symbols of the religion. Everyone knows about them. Everyone says Guru Gobind Singh Ji told us to wear them. When I started wearing them I along with many other Sikhs I know went through a stage of thinking I am better than the people who are not wearing them. Because we had the belief that by strictly wearing these symbols it showed Guru Gobind Singh Ji how much we loved him. And that meant we were blessed.
However, when we read the Shri Guru Granth Sahib ji we quickly learnt that NOT ONE SINGLE EXTERNAL symbol or uniform or ritual gives us salvation. And that believing any symbol , any religious uniform or any religious ritual was going to please God was false.
So there we were CONFUSED. On one side you have the religion saying we need all these symbols, uniforms and rituals. But the very Guru we have infront of us right now says they are USELESS. Only NAAM is of any use.
Then I found that most Sikhs I know choose to follow what the religion says and keep on getting harder in the symbols, uniforms and rituals. And let the religion overrule what their Guru Granth Sahib ji is telling them.
We keep saying Shri Guru Granth Sahib ji is our Guru, so read the following from our Guru and apply it to our own attitude towards the 5Ks, Bana and Sikh rituals.
I realise that some Sikhs will feel offended that this email is challenging what they hold most dear. But this is not meant to offend. Guru Gobind Singh ji gave us all these external things in 1699, but he also told us that Guru Granth Sahib ji is now our Guru. So why dont we put the teachings of Guru Granth Sahib ji - our Guru right now, HIGHER THAN ANYTHING that has gone before? And stop judging others who dont have the same Sikh appearance?
If we put the teachings of Guru Granth Sahib Ji higher than even our Sikh religious practices, we would be the greatest, open minded, loving hearts, full of naam that the world had ever seen.
Read the following quotes carefully and apply them to our own Sikh practices - they are the benchmark of Truth: Keski : The Turban that pleases God Purify what is impure, and let the Lord's Presence be your religious tradition.
Let total awareness of God be the turban on your head. ||12|| Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 1084-9 Kesh : The Hairstyle that pleases God Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 1365-15 Kanga : The comb that pleases God Kabeer, why do you slander the wife of the king? Why do you honor the slave of the Lord?
Because one combs her hair for corruption, while the other remembers the Name of the Lord. ||160|| Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 1373-2 Kirpan : The sword that pleases God Guru (Nanak Ji) implanted the almighty sword of the Teachings to illuminate his (Guru Angad Ji) soul. Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 966-17 Kara : The bangle that pleases God If the bride wears the Lord's Name, as the garland around her neck,
if she uses the Lord as her toothbrush;
and if she fashions and wears the Creator as the bracelet around her wrist,
then she shall hold her consciousness steady. ||2|| Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 359-10 Kacha : The underwear that pleases God You wear two loin cloths, and keep your head covered.
If you know God and the nature of karma,
you know that all these rituals and beliefs are useless.
Says Nanak, meditate on the Lord with faith.
Without the True Guru, no one finds the Way. ||1|| Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 1353-8 Khanda : The path of the double edged sword that leads to God To forsake pride, emotional attachment, and the sense of 'mine and yours',
is the path of the double-edged sword. ||3|| Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 534-13 Khalistan : The Kingdom of the Pure The peace which is obtained by serving God, the Lord of the Universe –
that peace cannot be found in kingdoms or power. ||1||Pause||
Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 336-8 Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=20679 The wealth of the Naam is worth millions of kingdoms to me;
O God, please bless me with Your Ambrosial Glance of Grace. ||1||
Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 716-11 Kaum : The Greatest Tribe Among masters, You are the Master. Among tribes, Yours is the Supreme Tribe. ||1||
Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 507-11 Khalsa Panth : Path of the Pure I dedicate my mind to Him, and renounce my ego. This is the Path which I shall take.
Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 1098-14
I am not saying we accept this article blindly. Most of the verses from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji are one liners and would be read out of context. So sadh sangat ji, a post mortem is clearly necessary. Don't be misled by its 'beautiful presentation'.
Pour in all your comments please.
 Do share your immediate thoughts or reactions on this issue? We value your views! Login Now! or Sign Up Today! to share your views with us.. Gurfateh!
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God closes doors no man can open & God opens doors no man can close. |
22-Mar-2008, 00:18 AM
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| |  | | | Re: Contradictions of Opinion
namjap ji!
Thank you for this topic. Nice summary on it. This is actually just what I´m wondering about.
Hope, it will be a lively discussion.
Kesh : The Hairstyle that pleases God
Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 1365-15
Kaum : The Greatest Tribe
Among masters, You are the Master. Among tribes, Yours is the Supreme Tribe. ||1||
Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 507-11
1. That´s interesting. So it is ok to shave if you shave all? This is the first time I´ve heard of this. Can anyone explain this to a beginner-seeker?
Anyway, I would go for the first, long hair option.
2. I thought that: chakkra chihan ar baran jaat, ar paat naihin jih. ??
As said, I´m a beginner in sikhi and pleased to take part in this discussion and learn something. |
22-Mar-2008, 09:56 AM
| | ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap) | | | Enrolled: Jul 14th, 2007
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| | | | | Re: Contradictions of Opinion
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22-Mar-2008, 10:29 AM
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| |  | | | Re: Contradictions of Opinion
Quote:
Originally Posted by namjap  .
Then I found that most Sikhs I know choose to follow what the religion says and keep on getting harder in the symbols, uniforms and rituals. And let the religion overrule what their Guru Granth Sahib ji is telling them.
We keep saying Shri Guru Granth Sahib ji is our Guru, so read the following from our Guru and apply it to our own attitude towards the 5Ks, Bana and Sikh rituals.
I realise that some Sikhs will feel offended that this email is challenging what they hold most dear. But this is not meant to offend. Guru Gobind Singh ji gave us all these external things in 1699, but he also told us that Guru Granth Sahib ji is now our Guru. So why dont we put the teachings of Guru Granth Sahib ji - our Guru right now, HIGHER THAN ANYTHING that has gone before? And stop judging others who dont have the same Sikh appearance?
If we put the teachings of Guru Granth Sahib Ji higher than even our Sikh religious practices, we would be the greatest, open minded, loving hearts, full of naam that the world had ever seen.
Read the following quotes carefully and apply them to our own Sikh practices - they are the benchmark of Truth: Keski : The Turban that pleases God Purify what is impure, and let the Lord's Presence be your religious tradition.
Let total awareness of God be the turban on your head. ||12|| Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 1084-9 Kesh : The Hairstyle that pleases God Kabeer, when you are in love with the One Lord, duality and alienation depart.
You may have long hair, or you may shave your head bald. ||25|| Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 1365-15 Kanga : The comb that pleases God Kabeer, why do you slander the wife of the king? Why do you honor the slave of the Lord?
Because one combs her hair for corruption, while the other remembers the Name of the Lord. ||160|| Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 1373-2 Kirpan : The sword that pleases God Guru (Nanak Ji) implanted the almighty sword of the Teachings to illuminate his (Guru Angad Ji) soul. Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 966-17 Kara : The bangle that pleases God If the bride wears the Lord's Name, as the garland around her neck,
if she uses the Lord as her toothbrush;
and if she fashions and wears the Creator as the bracelet around her wrist,
then she shall hold her consciousness steady. ||2|| Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 359-10 Kacha : The underwear that pleases God You wear two loin cloths, and keep your head covered.
If you know God and the nature of karma,
you know that all these rituals and beliefs are useless.
Says Nanak, meditate on the Lord with faith.
Without the True Guru, no one finds the Way. ||1|| Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 1353-8 Khanda : The path of the double edged sword that leads to God To forsake pride, emotional attachment, and the sense of 'mine and yours',
is the path of the double-edged sword. ||3|| Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 534-13 Khalistan : The Kingdom of the Pure The peace which is obtained by serving God, the Lord of the Universe –
that peace cannot be found in kingdoms or power. ||1||Pause||
Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 336-8 The wealth of the Naam is worth millions of kingdoms to me;
O God, please bless me with Your Ambrosial Glance of Grace. ||1||
Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 716-11 Kaum : The Greatest Tribe Among masters, You are the Master. Among tribes, Yours is the Supreme Tribe. ||1||
Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 507-11 Khalsa Panth : Path of the Pure I dedicate my mind to Him, and renounce my ego. This is the Path which I shall take.
Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 1098-14
I am not saying we accept this article blindly. Most of the verses from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji are one liners and would be read out of context. So sadh sangat ji, a post mortem is clearly necessary. Don't be misled by its 'beautiful presentation'.
Pour in all your comments please. | namjap ji
The quotes given from GGS Ji do not oppose five kakars of Sikhs at all, they are exposing hypocricy. Tenth Nanak gave a decipline to the Sikhs after centuries of First Nanak's teachings in practice. Guru Granth Sahib's teachings are mandatory to practice, if ignored, 5 kakars do not convey anything; however, they are very important though for accepting Guru ji's Hukam. Sikhs do not disobey Guru, when they do, they cease to be Sikhs and turn to be hypocrites.
People who are imbued to Guru teachings and wearing 5 kakars never look at others as inferiors, they have backing of Guru Granth Sahib ji for that kind of behaviour. Sikhs are the only ones who are taught to respect all, wish good for all as per HIs creation and Hukam even then they are not supposed to be proud of it as per Gurmat.. Contradiction is made but doesnt exist.  |
22-Mar-2008, 11:08 AM
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| | | | | Re: Contradictions of Opinion
Svea00 Ji,
What's your opinion on pk70's explanation taking into consideration that Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji was compiled first and then the formation of Khalsa, Amrit and 5K's came into play later. |
22-Mar-2008, 16:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by namjap Svea00 Ji,
What's your opinion on pk70's explanation taking into consideration that Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji was compiled first and then the formation of Khalsa, Amrit and 5K's came into play later. | namjap ji!
I have a quite limited understanding on this subject.
But I think it was supposed to form a religious group (or a sangat) with for all obvious visual signs of a community. I think you have to consider the times back then, with a quite new religion trying to emancipate itself and also to strife for it´s rights. In this context the 5 k´s might have had also a quite practical approach. Forming a outstanding group and remembering your principles in all your doings (kesh and kara), keep it clean and tidy also during struggly times (keski and kanga), wear practical and simple clothings, also to remember to keep detached from maya (kacha), to protect this very young religious group (kirpan and khanda). They also might have wished during these troubly times to form a country where sikhs can live free and practise their religion freely (khalistan).
I do think that you (not me yet  ) are wearing these 5 k´s to remember all this, but I (you may call I my limited sight or understanding on sikhi) think that the spiritual aimes in sikhi, as praying, jap, naam,... are much more important than outer signs.
On the other hand I feel at the same time that wearing the 5 k´s you´re constantly aware of your sikh identity and this my make it easier to do be aware of god and naam all the time.
As I believe god not to be personified and to be detached from feelings, I don´t think god is " pleased" by such things as how you dress and what you wear as long you respect him/her, his/her creation and remember him/her constantly.
I hope, I was able to express my opinion on the subject in an understandable way, it´s sometimes rather hard for a non-english speaker not to be misunderstood.
I´d like to add that I´m not at all against the 5 k´s, I myself am slowly turning towards them as I do see them as a integral part of sikhi. |
23-Mar-2008, 16:45 PM
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Quote: | Something I and every Sikh soon realises is that there are alot of contradictions in the religion. This confuses the seeker and many get disillusioned and leave the path. Or just carry on the path but never dig deeper to really understand the deeper divine wisdom. | Kabeer, when you are in love with the One Lord, duality and alienation depart.
You may have long hair, or you may shave your head bald. ||25||
Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 1365-15 ਲੁੰਜਿਤਮੁੰਜਿਤਮੋਨਿਜਟਾਧਰਅੰਤਿਤਊਮਰਨਾ॥੧॥
lunjith munjith mon jattaadhhar anth thoo maranaa ||1||
The Jains with shaven heads, the silent ones, the beggars with matted hair - in the end, they all shall die. ||1||
~Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji p. 476 ਜਟਾਭਸਮਲੇਪਨਕੀਆਕਹਾਗੁਫਾਮਹਿਬਾਸੁ॥
jattaa bhasam laepan keeaa kehaa gufaa mehi baas ||
What is the use of wearing matted hair, smearing the body with ashes, and living in a cave? ਮਨੁਜੀਤੇਜਗੁਜੀਤਿਆਜਾਂਤੇਬਿਖਿਆਤੇਹੋਇਉਦਾਸੁ॥੨॥
man jeethae jag jeethiaa jaan thae bikhiaa thae hoe oudhaas ||2||
Conquering the mind, one conquers the world, and then remains detached from corruption. ||2||
~Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji p. 1103 Gurbani talks about people with extreme religious tapas, those with shaven heads and those with long matted hairs. And it says they will all die. But this is not the description of the Khalsa Gursikh, who maintains uncut hairs which are clean and neatly combed, who is a householder raising a family and not a renunciate practicing bodily punishments. So the pauri is describing austerities, or extreme spiritual practices and saying you will not get liberation this way. Quote: | For example take the 5Ks, they are very visible symbols of the religion. Everyone knows about them. Everyone says Guru Gobind Singh Ji told us to wear them. When I started wearing them I along with many other Sikhs I know went through a stage of thinking I am better than the people who are not wearing them. Because we had the belief that by strictly wearing these symbols it showed Guru Gobind Singh Ji how much we loved him. And that meant we were blessed.
However, when we read the Shri Guru Granth Sahib ji we quickly learnt that NOT ONE SINGLE EXTERNAL symbol or uniform or ritual gives us salvation. And that believing any symbol , any religious uniform or any religious ritual was going to please God was false. | Veer Ji, "everyone says Guru Gobind Singh Ji told us to wear kakkars? Then you started wearing them?" You see, something big is missing from your post here. Something HUGE.
What about...the Panj Piare? I'm assuming, that you received amrit. Did the Panj Piare not tell you to wear Panj Kakkars? And do you not accept that Panj Piare are the sargun saroop of Guru Ji Himself? You say, you read Dhan Dhan Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. But this contradicts... what everyone said. You quickly learned that not one single external symbol or uniform or ritual gives salvation. And you learned this from Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji?
Veer Ji, the Panj Piare are Guru Ji. And looking at the SGPC Rehit Maryada it says: Quote: | p. After this, one from amongst the five beloved ones should explain to the initiates the discipline of the order : * Today you are reborn in the true Guru's household, ending the cycle of migration, and joined the Khalsa Panth (order). *Your spiritual father is now Guru Gobind Singh and spiritual mother, Mata Sahib Kaur. *Your place of birth is Kesgarh Sahib and your native place is Anandpur Sahib. You, being the sons of one father, are, inter-se yourselves and other baptised Sikhs, spiritual brothers. You have become the pure Khalsa, having renounced your previous lineage, professional background, calling (occupation), beliefs, that is, having given up all connections with your caste, descent, birth, country, religion, etc.
You are to worship none except the One Timeless Being (Waheguru) no God, Goddess, incarnation or prophet. You are not to think of anyone except the ten Gurus and anything except their gospel as your saviour. You are supposed to know Gurmukhi (Punjabi alphabet). (If you do not, you must learn it). And recite, or listen in to the recitation of, the under mentioned scriptural compositions, the daily repetition of which is ordained, every day (1) The Japuji Sahib, (2) The Jaap Sahib, (3) The Ten Sawayyas (Quartrains), beginning "sarawag sudh", (4) The Sodar Rahiras and the Sohila. Besides, you should read from or listen in to the recitation from the Guru Granth Sahib . Have, on your person, all the time, the five K's :
I. The Keshas (unshorn hair),
II. The Kirpan {sheathed sword} (The length of the sword to be worn is not prescribed.,
III. The Kachhehra (The Kachhehra (drawers like garment) may be made from any cloth, but its legs should not reach down to below the shins.),
IV. The Kanga (comb),
V. The Karha {steel bracelet} (The Karha should be of pure steel.)
| There is nothing in the amrit Sinchaar ceremony that says you wear Panj Kakkars to have salvation. In fact, it says clearly, the Panj are required to instruct you fully that you are not to think of anyone except the 10 Gurus and anything except their gospel as your savior. And if you are in fact amritdhari, you know that all questions about Khalsa Rehit you take directly to the Panj. Now, maybe I'm just missing something big. Maybe you just put on Panj Kakkars because you thought this could give you salvation. Please make clear Veer Ji. Because just to wear kakkars does not make you amritdhari. And just to chuk amrit does not make you a Gursikh. It does not make you a perfect person or even holy. To become amritdhari gives you a path to walk, a spiritual sadhana, a practice. You practice at becoming a good person. Guru Ji is your salvation. It's by living daily in obedience to Guru Ji's hukam that you get somewhere spiritually, by discipline and faithfulness to Guru, not by wearing a uniform. Quote: | So there we were CONFUSED. On one side you have the religion saying we need all these symbols, uniforms and rituals. But the very Guru we have infront of us right now says they are USELESS. Only NAAM is of any use.
Then I found that most Sikhs I know choose to follow what the religion says and keep on getting harder in the symbols, uniforms and rituals. And let the religion overrule what their Guru Granth Sahib ji is telling them. We keep saying Shri Guru Granth Sahib ji is our Guru, so read the following from our Guru and apply it to our own attitude towards the 5Ks, Bana and Sikh rituals. | ਬੰਕੇਬਾਲਪਾਗਸਿਰਿਡੇਰੀ॥
bankae baal paag sir ddaeree ||
You make your hair beautiful, and wear a stylish turban on your head. ਇਹੁਤਨੁਹੋਇਗੋਭਸਮਕੀਢੇਰੀ॥੩॥
eihu than hoeigo bhasam kee dtaeree ||3||
But in the end, this body shall be reduced to a pile of ashes. ||3|| ਊਚੇਮੰਦਰਸੁੰਦਰਨਾਰੀ॥
oochae mandhar sundhar naaree ||
Your palaces are lofty, and your brides are beautiful. ਰਾਮਨਾਮਬਿਨੁਬਾਜੀਹਾਰੀ॥੪॥
raam naam bin baajee haaree ||4||
But without the Lord's Name, you shall lose the game entirely. ||4||
~Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji p. 659 ਨਾਨਕਤੇਸੋਹਾਗਣੀਜਿਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਾਗੁਰਮੁਖਿਪਰਗਟੁਹੋਇ॥੧੯॥
naanak thae sohaaganee jinhaa guramukh paragatt hoe ||19||
O Nanak, the Gurmukhs are the happy, virtuous soul-brides; the Lord is revealed to them. ||19|| ਜਉਤਉਪ੍ਰੇਮਖੇਲਣਕਾਚਾਉ॥
jo tho praem khaelan kaa chaao ||
If you desire to play this game of love with Me, ਸਿਰੁਧਰਿਤਲੀਗਲੀਮੇਰੀਆਉ॥
sir dhhar thalee galee maeree aao ||
then step onto My Path with your head in hand. ਇਤੁਮਾਰਗਿਪੈਰੁਧਰੀਜੈ॥
eith maarag pair dhhareejai ||
When you place your feet on this Path, ਸਿਰੁਦੀਜੈਕਾਣਿਨਕੀਜੈ॥੨੦॥
sir dheejai kaan n keejai ||20||
give Me your head, and do not pay any attention to public opinion. ||20||
~Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji p. 1412 Something else big is missing from the picture. If you want to play this game of love, and place your feet on this path...step onto my path with your head in your hand. How can anyone really do that? How can you sacrifice yourself? From where comes such courage, such devotion, such power? Everyone wants it. Where do you get it? Where do you get what it takes to stand up and be counted? Chanting the Lord's Name is what will give you the commitment to walk on the difficult path and surrender no less than everything; to put a noose around your own panj dhoots, even to embrace shaheedi. When you become amritdhari, the Panj Piare are supposed to instruct you in Vahiguru Gurmantara. You receive the Naam from Panj Piaras because you can only receive the Naam from Guru Ji's own saroop. You receive a technique that is a very powerful way to transform your mind. |
23-Mar-2008, 18:08 PM
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(Continued) ਪਿੰਡਿਮੂਐਜੀਉਕਿਹਘਰਿਜਾਤਾ॥
pindd mooai jeeo kih ghar jaathaa ||
When the body dies, where does the soul go? ਸਬਦਿਅਤੀਤਿਅਨਾਹਦਿਰਾਤਾ॥
sabadh atheeth anaahadh raathaa ||
It is absorbed into the untouched, unstruck melody of the Word of the Shabad. ਜਿਨਿਰਾਮੁਜਾਨਿਆਤਿਨਹਿਪਛਾਨਿਆ॥
jin raam jaaniaa thinehi pashhaaniaa ||
Only one who knows the Lord realizes Him. ਜਿਉਗੂੰਗੇਸਾਕਰਮਨੁਮਾਨਿਆ॥੧॥
jio goongae saakar man maaniaa ||1||
The mind is satisfied and satiated, like the mute who eats the sugar candy and just smiles, without speaking. ||1|| ਐਸਾਗਿਆਨੁਕਥੈਬਨਵਾਰੀ॥
aisaa giaan kathhai banavaaree ||
Such is the spiritual wisdom which the Lord has imparted. ਮਨਰੇਪਵਨਦ੍ਰਿੜਸੁਖਮਨਨਾਰੀ॥੧॥ਰਹਾਉ॥
man rae pavan dhrirr sukhaman naaree ||1|| rehaao ||
O mind, hold your breath steady within the central channel of the Sushmanaa. ||1||Pause|| ਸੋਗੁਰੁਕਰਹੁਜਿਬਹੁਰਿਨਕਰਨਾ॥
so gur karahu j bahur n karanaa ||
Adopt such a Guru, that you shall not have to adopt another again. ਸੋਪਦੁਰਵਹੁਜਿਬਹੁਰਿਨਰਵਨਾ॥
so padh ravahu j bahur n ravanaa ||
Dwell in such a state, that you shall never have to dwell in any other. ਸੋਧਿਆਨੁਧਰਹੁਜਿਬਹੁਰਿਨਧਰਨਾ॥
so dhhiaan dhharahu j bahur n dhharanaa ||
Embrace such a meditation, that you shall never have to embrace any other. ਐਸੇਮਰਹੁਜਿਬਹੁਰਿਨਮਰਨਾ॥੨॥
aisae marahu j bahur n maranaa ||2||
Die in such a way, that you shall never have to die again. ||2|| ਉਲਟੀਗੰਗਾਜਮੁਨਮਿਲਾਵਉ॥
oulattee gangaa jamun milaavo ||
Turn your breath away from the left channel, and away from the right channel, and unite them in the central channel of the Sushmanaa. ਬਿਨੁਜਲਸੰਗਮਮਨਮਹਿਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਾਵਉ॥
bin jal sangam man mehi nhaavo ||
At their confluence within your mind, take your bath there without water.
~Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji p. 327 The Ida (left) and the Pingala (right) nadis (channels) carry the life energy (prana). The flow of prana is stimulated by the practice of pranayam. Ask yourself Veer ji, why would technique of pranayam be in Gurbani? This is what I mean, something is missing from the spiritual practice of the average Sikh. When you chuk amrit, the Panj Piare are supposed to impart something to you that opens the door to your liberation. And most people don't receive it. this is Naam. So the average Sikh reading this doesn't know what it's talking about in relation to Naam japna. And this is more than just a pranayam exercise. You receive an energy. No one can fake it. It has to be given. You can't give it to yourself. And why would a technique even be important? Why not just think love and become love? If I chant love all day will I become loving? That's because we all have inner demons, we have wounds on the soul from lifetimes. Maya knows how to bring out the worst in us. Without this opening of spiritual energy pathway, the recitation of Gurmantra has no power to clean your mind or karams. Because these nadis influence the pineal gland and the neurotransmitters altering our physical brain chemistry. It does more on a subtle energy level beyond the physical, and enters into non-physical spiritual reality of our being. Naam has the power to change our consciousness. Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=20679 In this way, an amritdhari person receives more than a set of clothes. By sincerely practicing Gursikhi and keeping faithful to Guru, by keeping Rehat and practice of Saas Giras Naam Simran, the Naam he receives has the power to change him completely. Not overnight, but according to his karam, his faithful practice and Guruji's kirpa. That is my belief and best understanding. You can't just take the Naam and run with it. It's a complete package. You have the amrit, you have the Naam, you have the discipline, you have the surrender, you have the Rehit Maryada, you have the Gurbani Kirtan of the Lord's praise, and you have the life to mature and put all this into practice. Here is where we make our mistakes and look in the mirror of the soul. One day, with Guruji's kirpa, we will find a jewel. ਇਹੁਮਨੂਆਦ੍ਰਿੜੁਕਰਿਰਖੀਐਗੁਰਮੁਖਿਲਾਈਐਚਿਤੁ॥
eihu manooaa dhrirr kar rakheeai guramukh laaeeai chith ||
Hold this mind steady and stable; become Gurmukh and focus your consciousness. ਕਿਉਸਾਸਿਗਿਰਾਸਿਵਿਸਾਰੀਐਬਹਦਿਆਉਠਦਿਆਨਿਤ॥Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=20679 kio saas giraas visaareeai behadhiaa outhadhiaa nith || How could you ever forget Him, with each breath and morsel of food, sitting down or standing up? ਮਰਣਜੀਵਣਕੀਚਿੰਤਾਗਈਇਹੁਜੀਅੜਾਹਰਿਪ੍ਰਭਵਸਿ॥
maran jeevan kee chinthaa gee eihu jeearraa har prabh vas ||
My anxiety about birth and death has ended; this soul is under the control of the Lord God. ਜਿਉਭਾਵੈਤਿਉਰਖੁਤੂਜਨਨਾਨਕਨਾਮੁਬਖਸਿ॥੧॥
jio bhaavai thio rakh thoo jan naanak naam bakhas ||1||
If it pleases You, then save servant Nanak, and bless him with Your Name. ||1||
~Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji p. 314 ਆਖਿਆਖਿਮਨੁਵਾਵਣਾਜਿਉਜਿਉਜਾਪੈਵਾਇ॥
aakh aakh man vaavanaa jio jio jaapai vaae ||
I speak and chant His Praises, vibrating the instrument of my mind. The more I know Him, the more I vibrate it. ਜਿਸਨੋਵਾਇਸੁਣਾਈਐਸੋਕੇਵਡੁਕਿਤੁਥਾਇ॥
jis no vaae sunaaeeai so kaevadd kith thhaae ||
The One, unto whom we vibrate and sing-how great is He, and where is His Place? ਆਖਣਵਾਲੇਜੇਤੜੇਸਭਿਆਖਿਰਹੇਲਿਵਲਾਇ॥੧॥
aakhan vaalae jaetharrae sabh aakh rehae liv laae ||1||
Those who speak of Him and praise Him-they all continue speaking of Him with love. ||1||
~Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji p. 53 Holding the mind steady and stable and focusing consciousness, by speaking, chanting, making the body an instrument to vibrate His praises... this is how we can become Gurmukh. This technique belonged historically to purataan Gursikhi but is not well known or even well received today, although it does exist in the Khalsa Panth and not just to any particular Jathabandi. The technique of saas giras simran (with every breath and morsel of food) is found in Sri Prem Sumarg Granth Sahib Ji. Modern Sikhism lost touch with a lot of traditional purataan Gursikh practices. ਭਾਠੀਗਗਨੁਸਿੰਙਿਆਅਰੁਚੁੰਙਿਆਕਨਕਕਲਸਇਕੁਪਾਇਆ॥
bhaathee gagan sinn(g)iaa ar chunn(g)iaa kanak kalas eik paaeiaa ||
The Tenth Gate of my crown chakra is the distilling fire, and the channels of the Ida and Pingala are the funnels, to pour in and empty out the golden vat. ਤਿਸੁਮਹਿਧਾਰਚੁਐਅਤਿਨਿਰਮਲਰਸਮਹਿਰਸਨਚੁਆਇਆ॥੨॥
this mehi dhhaar chuai ath niramal ras mehi rasan chuaaeiaa ||2||
Into that vat, there trickles a gentle stream of the most sublime and pure essence of all distilled essences. ||2|| ਏਕਜੁਬਾਤਅਨੂਪਬਨੀਹੈਪਵਨਪਿਆਲਾਸਾਜਿਆ॥
eaek j baath anoop banee hai pavan piaalaa saajiaa ||
Something wonderful has happened-the breath has become the cup. ਤੀਨਿਭਵਨਮਹਿਏਕੋਜੋਗੀਕਹਹੁਕਵਨੁਹੈਰਾਜਾ॥੩॥
theen bhavan mehi eaeko jogee kehahu kavan hai raajaa ||3||
In all the three worlds, such a Yogi is unique. What king can compare to him? ||3||
~Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji p. 92 |
23-Mar-2008, 18:25 PM
| | | | | Enrolled: Feb 15th, 2006
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| | | | | Re: Contradictions of Opinion
ਪੰਚਪਹਰੂਆਦਰਮਹਿਰਹਤੇਤਿਨਕਾਨਹੀਪਤੀਆਰਾ॥
panch peharooaa dhar mehi rehathae thin kaa nehee patheeaaraa ||
The five senses stand as guards at the gate, but now can they be trusted? ਚੇਤਿਸੁਚੇਤਚਿਤਹੋਇਰਹੁਤਉਲੈਪਰਗਾਸੁਉਜਾਰਾ॥੨॥
chaeth suchaeth chith hoe rahu tho lai paragaas oujaaraa ||2||
When you are conscious in your consciousness, you shall be enlightened and illuminated. ||2|| ਨਉਘਰਦੇਖਿਜੁਕਾਮਨਿਭੂਲੀਬਸਤੁਅਨੂਪਨਪਾਈ॥
no ghar dhaekh j kaaman bhoolee basath anoop n paaee ||
Seeing the nine openings of the body, the soul-bride is led astray; she does not obtain that incomparable thing. ਕਹਤੁਕਬੀਰਨਵੈਘਰਮੂਸੇਦਸਵੈਂਤਤੁਸਮਾਈ॥੩॥੨੨॥੭੩॥
kehath kabeer navai ghar moosae dhasavain thath samaaee ||3||22||73||
Says Kabeer, the nine openings of the body are being plundered; rise up to the Tenth Gate, and discover the true essence. ||3||22||73||
~Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji p. 339 Quote: |
I realise that some Sikhs will feel offended that this email is challenging what they hold most dear. But this is not meant to offend. Guru Gobind Singh ji gave us all these external things in 1699, but he also told us that Guru Granth Sahib ji is now our Guru.
| A spiritual discipline isn't an easy path or everyone could walk it as manmati. The point of a spiritual discipline is to walk against your inner manmat and put a noose around your 5 inner demons. This is how we change, not by wearing kakkars. All the world and Maya is pulling against you. Sadhana is a daily dying to self. If keeping kakkars was such a point of egotism, why isn't the whole world rushing to wear them and struggle to live up to what they mean? Why are kakkars a point of discrimination worldwide? Because it's not easy to keep this identity. No matter how inflated you may think of yourself, if you keep faithful spiritual practice meditation is like a mirror...and what is there isn't a pretty picture. No matter how high you may think yourself, so low will you feel when you look in that mirror. And if you practice sincerely looking in that mirror of Guruji's truth everyday, it helps to keep you humble and in touch with your inner reality. You see, that high flying egotism is all delusion. And like a bubble, it has to burst. So don't worry too much if you see a lot of high flying people. It's really hard to look in that mirror. And flying high like that is just an escape. You can't avoid looking in that mirror sometime... when you close your eyes at night... when you have to die... the reality of who we are will tumble us off our pedestal. So this whole thing is a game of love. And everyone approaches this path from a different level, depending on our past karams and our present understanding. Everything that comes to us is Guruji's grace. We can't jump to a higher level. We just come as we are. And Guruji takes us as we are and shows us a way to be better. When you're searching Gurbani, remember you're looking at the sant part of the sant-sipahi. Dasam Pita Ji included also the sipahi part of the equation. A description of kakkars can never be out of context. Gurbani doesn't contradict. Only our minds think contradiction. Quote: | So why dont we put the teachings of Guru Granth Sahib ji - our Guru right now, HIGHER THAN ANYTHING that has gone before? And stop judging others who dont have the same Sikh appearance? If we put the teachings of Guru Granth Sahib Ji higher than even our Sikh religious practices, we would be the greatest, open minded, loving hearts, full of naam that the world had ever seen. | Veer Ji, with all the best intentions you will go the way of every other well intentioned path... into failure. Because Sikh religious practices aren't open-minded... their strict and demanding. Open-mindedness is a quality of heart not of method. Being open-minded alone won't give you what it takes to face hardship, bullets, hatred of the world. If you are so "open-minded" that your spiritual practice is singing a bit of kirtan, reading some Gurbani but has no real discipline... you won't be prepared. The teachings of Shabadguru Ji cannot contradict the hukam of Guruji. Our Sikh religious practices are our dharam, given to us by Guruji. We have opportunity to put into practice our love for Guruji. It's meaningless to say you love Guru in all the conveniences of the way YOU want to. To love Guru you have to surrender all that you are. That's the discipline. That's why Guru loves the rehit but not the Sikh. He loves what you are becoming, not the egotism on the way. Everyday should be a small sacrifice, a bowing down of egotism, like practice of shaheedi while you're still alive. Because idealism alone doesn't transform consciousness. It's real hard work, sacrifice, inner honesty, loyalty to a path. These are the things that show love for Guru. Dressing a part doesn't please Guru. There's a reason we dress in Guruji's bana. Because when we do something good, when we look in the mirror with pride, it's not our darshan. And when we do something bad, we know how badly we failed to live up to that precious and wonderful darshan. So even Guruji's bana is like a mirror. No one is judging non-amritdharis. People are simply using Gurmat definitions of what a Sikh is, what an amritdhari is. No one is stopping anyone from living life however they want. The key is, don't live against Gurmat and say that it's Gurmat. That's all. If you want to cut hairs, do it! But don't say that's Gurmat. If people want to drink and smoke fine. Who can stop them? But if you want to follow a Gurmat path, you can't contradict Gurbani, Akal Takht, the Panj Piares, the Rehit Maryada you received amrit from because you made a commitment. It isn't "closed-minded" or "judging" to distinguish one thing from another. That is bibek, discrimination. We have the right to discriminate for ourselves between things, and make best determination if its in line with Gurmat Gursikhi. Problems happen when people want to change the traditional definitions of what is Gurmat, and do a lot of things that aren't accepted and try to force the acceptance. That is what they call "judging." And naturally what happens is they get a strict definition, and they don't like it. And sometimes people try to find a way around that strict definition. But you would only be cheating yourself. Remember, pleasure is the poison, suffering is the cure. We are living in open societies. I have freedom to do what I want. I choose to put my life under strict discipline. Not because I think I'm better than somebody. Because I want to tame my own beasts. And I'm a much happier person. I have the freedom for, as well as freedom from. Discipline is a way to live that gives you great peace. If I didn't have my Guru, my rehit, my Naam abiyaas... I wouldn't have a reason for living. Everything else is fake and fades away... even my very life. I don't know how anyone can judge the spiritual development of the Singhs/Singhnia since no one can see whats happening on the inside, or where people have come from to be here now sharing in their best way a darshan of Guruji. Maybe if you look at someone's life over time, you can better judge success from failure. But most of all, don't worry too much about them. Worry about you. ~bhul chak maaf karni ji |
24-Mar-2008, 00:42 AM
| | ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap) | | | Enrolled: Jul 14th, 2007
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| | | | | Re: Contradictions of Opinion
The point of a spiritual discipline is to walk against your inner manmat. Harjas Ji, It's easier to die than walk against our inner manmat. So, therefore, Sikhism is the ultimate challenge which even the great samurais of the past fail to abide. Thus marking their extinction.
You're an enlightened soul because you have enlightened me with the pure essence emanating from your heart. Guru's Kirpa is definitely with you.
I would like to understand more on Naam has the power to change our consciousness. Are there different levels of Naam ? When you say naam, isn't it the Anhad Bani ? Kindly share your experiences with us. What does it mean when Gurbani explains : ਉਲਟੀਗੰਗਾਜਮੁਨਮਿਲਾਵਉ॥
oulattee gangaa jamun milaavo ||
Turn your breath away from the left channel, and away from the right channel, and unite them in the central channel of the Sushmanaa. ਬਿਨੁਜਲਸੰਗਮਮਨਮਹਿਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਾਵਉ॥
bin jal sangam man mehi nhaavo ||
At their confluence within your mind, take your bath there without water.
~Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji p. 327 Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=20679 the Panj Piare are supposed to impart something to you that opens the door to your liberation. And most people don't receive it. this is Naam. Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=20679 Also please elaborate on this opening of the door to liberation. I'm interested. | 
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