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Contradictions of Opinion

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by Astroboy, Mar 21, 2008.

  1. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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    The spiritual Ks that please God

    Something I and every Sikh soon realises is that there are alot of contradictions in the religion.

    This confuses the seeker and many get disillusioned and leave the path. Or just carry on the path but never dig deeper to really understand the deeper divine wisdom.

    For example take the 5Ks, they are very visible symbols of the religion. Everyone knows about them. Everyone says Guru Gobind Singh Ji told us to wear them. When I started wearing them I along with many other Sikhs I know went through a stage of thinking I am better than the people who are not wearing them. Because we had the belief that by strictly wearing these symbols it showed Guru Gobind Singh Ji how much we loved him. And that meant we were blessed.

    However, when we read the Shri Guru Granth Sahib ji we quickly learnt that NOT ONE SINGLE EXTERNAL symbol or uniform or ritual gives us salvation. And that believing any symbol , any religious uniform or any religious ritual was going to please God was false.

    So there we were CONFUSED. On one side you have the religion saying we need all these symbols, uniforms and rituals. But the very Guru we have infront of us right now says they are USELESS. Only NAAM is of any use.

    Then I found that most Sikhs I know choose to follow what the religion says and keep on getting harder in the symbols, uniforms and rituals. And let the religion overrule what their Guru Granth Sahib ji is telling them.

    We keep saying Shri Guru Granth Sahib ji is our Guru, so read the following from our Guru and apply it to our own attitude towards the 5Ks, Bana and Sikh rituals.

    I realise that some Sikhs will feel offended that this email is challenging what they hold most dear. But this is not meant to offend. Guru Gobind Singh ji gave us all these external things in 1699, but he also told us that Guru Granth Sahib ji is now our Guru. So why dont we put the teachings of Guru Granth Sahib ji - our Guru right now, HIGHER THAN ANYTHING that has gone before? And stop judging others who dont have the same Sikh appearance?


    If we put the teachings of Guru Granth Sahib Ji higher than even our Sikh religious practices, we would be the greatest, open minded, loving hearts, full of naam that the world had ever seen.

    Read the following quotes carefully and apply them to our own Sikh practices - they are the benchmark of Truth:


    Keski : The Turban that pleases God

    Purify what is impure, and let the Lord's Presence be your religious tradition.
    Let total awareness of God be the turban on your head. ||12||​

    SGGS 1084-9​

    Kesh : The Hairstyle that pleases God


    Kabeer, when you are in love with the One Lord, duality and alienation depart.
    You may have long hair, or you may shave your head bald. ||25||​

    SGGS 1365-15​

    Kanga : The comb that pleases God


    Kabeer, why do you slander the wife of the king? Why do you honor the slave of the Lord?
    Because one combs her hair for corruption, while the other remembers the Name of the Lord. ||160||​

    SGGS 1373-2​

    Kirpan : The sword that pleases God

    Guru (Nanak Ji) implanted the almighty sword of the Teachings to illuminate his (Guru Angad Ji) soul.​

    SGGS 966-17​

    Kara : The bangle that pleases God



    If the bride wears the Lord's Name, as the garland around her neck,
    if she uses the Lord as her toothbrush;
    and if she fashions and wears the Creator as the bracelet around her wrist,
    then she shall hold her consciousness steady. ||2||​

    SGGS 359-10​

    Kacha : The underwear that pleases God



    You wear two loin cloths, and keep your head covered.
    If you know God and the nature of karma,
    you know that all these rituals and beliefs are useless.
    Says Nanak, meditate on the Lord with faith.
    Without the True Guru, no one finds the Way. ||1||​

    SGGS 1353-8​

    Khanda : The path of the double edged sword that leads to God



    To forsake pride, emotional attachment, and the sense of 'mine and yours',
    is the path of the double-edged sword. ||3||​

    SGGS 534-13​

    Khalistan : The Kingdom of the Pure



    The peace which is obtained by serving God, the Lord of the Universe –
    that peace cannot be found in kingdoms or power. ||1||Pause||
    SGGS 336-8​

    The wealth of the Naam is worth millions of kingdoms to me;
    O God, please bless me with Your Ambrosial Glance of Grace. ||1||
    SGGS 716-11​

    Kaum : The Greatest Tribe



    Among masters, You are the Master. Among tribes, Yours is the Supreme Tribe. ||1||
    SGGS 507-11​

    Khalsa Panth : Path of the Pure


    I dedicate my mind to Him, and renounce my ego. This is the Path which I shall take.
    SGGS 1098-14​




    I am not saying we accept this article blindly. Most of the verses from SGGS are one liners and would be read out of context. So sadh sangat ji, a post mortem is clearly necessary. Don't be misled by its 'beautiful presentation'.

    Pour in all your comments please.
     
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  3. svea00

    svea00
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    namjap ji!

    Thank you for this topic. Nice summary on it. This is actually just what I´m wondering about.
    Hope, it will be a lively discussion.

    Kesh : The Hairstyle that pleases God



    Kabeer, when you are in love with the One Lord, duality and alienation depart.
    You may have long hair, or you may shave your head bald. ||25||
    SGGS 1365-15

    Kaum : The Greatest Tribe



    Among masters, You are the Master. Among tribes, Yours is the Supreme Tribe. ||1||
    SGGS 507-11



    1. That´s interesting. So it is ok to shave if you shave all? This is the first time I´ve heard of this. Can anyone explain this to a beginner-seeker?

    Anyway, I would go for the first, long hair option.

    2. I thought that: chakkra chihan ar baran jaat, ar paat naihin jih. ??

    As said, I´m a beginner in sikhi and pleased to take part in this discussion and learn something.
     
  4. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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  5. pk70

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    namjap ji

    The quotes given from GGS Ji do not oppose five kakars of Sikhs at all, they are exposing hypocricy. Tenth Nanak gave a decipline to the Sikhs after centuries of First Nanak's teachings in practice. Guru Granth Sahib's teachings are mandatory to practice, if ignored, 5 kakars do not convey anything; however, they are very important though for accepting Guru ji's Hukam. Sikhs do not disobey Guru, when they do, they cease to be Sikhs and turn to be hypocrites.
    People who are imbued to Guru teachings and wearing 5 kakars never look at others as inferiors, they have backing of Guru Granth Sahib ji for that kind of behaviour. Sikhs are the only ones who are taught to respect all, wish good for all as per HIs creation and Hukam even then they are not supposed to be proud of it as per Gurmat.. Contradiction is made but doesnt exist.
     
  6. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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    Svea00 Ji,

    What's your opinion on pk70's explanation taking into consideration that SGGS was compiled first and then the formation of Khalsa, Amrit and 5K's came into play later.
     
  7. svea00

    svea00
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    namjap ji!

    I have a quite limited understanding on this subject.
    But I think it was supposed to form a religious group (or a sangat) with for all obvious visual signs of a community. I think you have to consider the times back then, with a quite new religion trying to emancipate itself and also to strife for it´s rights. In this context the 5 k´s might have had also a quite practical approach. Forming a outstanding group and remembering your principles in all your doings (kesh and kara), keep it clean and tidy also during struggly times (keski and kanga), wear practical and simple clothings, also to remember to keep detached from maya (kacha), to protect this very young religious group (kirpan and khanda). They also might have wished during these troubly times to form a country where sikhs can live free and practise their religion freely (khalistan).

    I do think that you (not me yet ;)) are wearing these 5 k´s to remember all this, but I (you may call I my limited sight or understanding on sikhi) think that the spiritual aimes in sikhi, as praying, jap, naam,... are much more important than outer signs.
    On the other hand I feel at the same time that wearing the 5 k´s you´re constantly aware of your sikh identity and this my make it easier to do be aware of god and naam all the time.
    As I believe god not to be personified and to be detached from feelings, I don´t think god is " pleased" by such things as how you dress and what you wear as long you respect him/her, his/her creation and remember him/her constantly.

    I hope, I was able to express my opinion on the subject in an understandable way, it´s sometimes rather hard for a non-english speaker not to be misunderstood.
    I´d like to add that I´m not at all against the 5 k´s, I myself am slowly turning towards them as I do see them as a integral part of sikhi.
     
  8. Harjas Kaur Khalsa

    Harjas Kaur Khalsa
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    Kabeer, when you are in love with the One Lord, duality and alienation depart.
    You may have long hair, or you may shave your head bald. ||25||
    SGGS 1365-15


    ਲੁੰਜਿਤਮੁੰਜਿਤਮੋਨਿਜਟਾਧਰਅੰਤਿਤਊਮਰਨਾ
    lunjith munjith mon jattaadhhar anth thoo maranaa ||1||
    The Jains with shaven heads, the silent ones, the beggars with matted hair - in the end, they all shall die. ||1||
    ~SGGS Ji p. 476


    ਜਟਾਭਸਮਲੇਪਨਕੀਆਕਹਾਗੁਫਾਮਹਿਬਾਸੁ
    jattaa bhasam laepan keeaa kehaa gufaa mehi baas ||
    What is the use of wearing matted hair, smearing the body with ashes, and living in a cave?

    ਮਨੁਜੀਤੇਜਗੁਜੀਤਿਆਜਾਂਤੇਬਿਖਿਆਤੇਹੋਇਉਦਾਸੁ
    man jeethae jag jeethiaa jaan thae bikhiaa thae hoe oudhaas ||2||
    Conquering the mind, one conquers the world, and then remains detached from corruption. ||2||
    ~SGGS Ji p. 1103

    Gurbani talks about people with extreme religious tapas, those with shaven heads and those with long matted hairs. And it says they will all die. But this is not the description of the Khalsa Gursikh, who maintains uncut hairs which are clean and neatly combed, who is a householder raising a family and not a renunciate practicing bodily punishments. So the pauri is describing austerities, or extreme spiritual practices and saying you will not get liberation this way. ​
    Veer Ji, "everyone says Guru Gobind Singh Ji told us to wear kakkars? Then you started wearing them?" You see, something big is missing from your post here. Something HUGE.
    What about...the Panj Piare? I'm assuming, that you received amrit. Did the Panj Piare not tell you to wear Panj Kakkars? And do you not accept that Panj Piare are the sargun saroop of Guru Ji Himself? You say, you read Dhan Dhan Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. But this contradicts... what everyone said. You quickly learned that not one single external symbol or uniform or ritual gives salvation. And you learned this from Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji?
    Veer Ji, the Panj Piare are Guru Ji. And looking at the SGPC Rehit Maryada it says:​
    There is nothing in the amrit Sinchaar ceremony that says you wear Panj Kakkars to have salvation. In fact, it says clearly, the Panj are required to instruct you fully that you are not to think of anyone except the 10 Gurus and anything except their gospel as your savior. And if you are in fact amritdhari, you know that all questions about Khalsa Rehit you take directly to the Panj. Now, maybe I'm just missing something big. Maybe you just put on Panj Kakkars because you thought this could give you salvation. Please make clear Veer Ji. Because just to wear kakkars does not make you amritdhari. And just to chuk amrit does not make you a Gursikh. It does not make you a perfect person or even holy. To become amritdhari gives you a path to walk, a spiritual sadhana, a practice. You practice at becoming a good person. Guru Ji is your salvation. It's by living daily in obedience to Guru Ji's hukam that you get somewhere spiritually, by discipline and faithfulness to Guru, not by wearing a uniform.​
    ਬੰਕੇਬਾਲਪਾਗਸਿਰਿਡੇਰੀ
    bankae baal paag sir ddaeree ||
    You make your hair beautiful, and wear a stylish turban on your head.

    ਇਹੁਤਨੁਹੋਇਗੋਭਸਮਕੀਢੇਰੀ
    eihu than hoeigo bhasam kee dtaeree ||3||
    But in the end, this body shall be reduced to a pile of ashes. ||3||

    ਊਚੇਮੰਦਰਸੁੰਦਰਨਾਰੀ
    oochae mandhar sundhar naaree ||
    Your palaces are lofty, and your brides are beautiful.

    ਰਾਮਨਾਮਬਿਨੁਬਾਜੀਹਾਰੀ
    raam naam bin baajee haaree ||4||
    But without the Lord's Name, you shall lose the game entirely. ||4||
    ~SGGS Ji p. 659

    ਨਾਨਕਤੇਸੋਹਾਗਣੀਜਿਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਾਗੁਰਮੁਖਿਪਰਗਟੁਹੋਇ੧੯
    naanak thae sohaaganee jinhaa guramukh paragatt hoe ||19||
    O Nanak, the Gurmukhs are the happy, virtuous soul-brides; the Lord is revealed to them. ||19||

    ਜਉਤਉਪ੍ਰੇਮਖੇਲਣਕਾਚਾਉ
    jo tho praem khaelan kaa chaao ||
    If you desire to play this game of love with Me,

    ਸਿਰੁਧਰਿਤਲੀਗਲੀਮੇਰੀਆਉ
    sir dhhar thalee galee maeree aao ||
    then step onto My Path with your head in hand.

    ਇਤੁਮਾਰਗਿਪੈਰੁਧਰੀਜੈ
    eith maarag pair dhhareejai ||
    When you place your feet on this Path,

    ਸਿਰੁਦੀਜੈਕਾਣਿਨਕੀਜੈ੨੦
    sir dheejai kaan n keejai ||20||
    give Me your head, and do not pay any attention to public opinion. ||20||
    ~SGGS Ji p. 1412


    Something else big is missing from the picture. If you want to play this game of love, and place your feet on this path...step onto my path with your head in your hand. How can anyone really do that? How can you sacrifice yourself? From where comes such courage, such devotion, such power? Everyone wants it. Where do you get it? Where do you get what it takes to stand up and be counted?

    Chanting the Lord's Name is what will give you the commitment to walk on the difficult path and surrender no less than everything; to put a noose around your own panj dhoots, even to embrace shaheedi. When you become amritdhari, the Panj Piare are supposed to instruct you in Vahiguru Gurmantara. You receive the Naam from Panj Piaras because you can only receive the Naam from Guru Ji's own saroop. You receive a technique that is a very powerful way to transform your mind. ​
     
  9. Harjas Kaur Khalsa

    Harjas Kaur Khalsa
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    (Continued)

    ਪਿੰਡਿਮੂਐਜੀਉਕਿਹਘਰਿਜਾਤਾ
    pindd mooai jeeo kih ghar jaathaa ||
    When the body dies, where does the soul go?

    ਸਬਦਿਅਤੀਤਿਅਨਾਹਦਿਰਾਤਾ
    sabadh atheeth anaahadh raathaa ||
    It is absorbed into the untouched, unstruck melody of the Word of the Shabad.

    ਜਿਨਿਰਾਮੁਜਾਨਿਆਤਿਨਹਿਪਛਾਨਿਆ
    jin raam jaaniaa thinehi pashhaaniaa ||
    Only one who knows the Lord realizes Him.

    ਜਿਉਗੂੰਗੇਸਾਕਰਮਨੁਮਾਨਿਆ
    jio goongae saakar man maaniaa ||1||
    The mind is satisfied and satiated, like the mute who eats the sugar candy and just smiles, without speaking. ||1||

    ਐਸਾਗਿਆਨੁਕਥੈਬਨਵਾਰੀ
    aisaa giaan kathhai banavaaree ||
    Such is the spiritual wisdom which the Lord has imparted.

    ਮਨਰੇਪਵਨਦ੍ਰਿੜਸੁਖਮਨਨਾਰੀਰਹਾਉ
    man rae pavan dhrirr sukhaman naaree ||1|| rehaao ||
    O mind, hold your breath steady within the central channel of the Sushmanaa. ||1||Pause||

    ਸੋਗੁਰੁਕਰਹੁਜਿਬਹੁਰਿਨਕਰਨਾ
    so gur karahu j bahur n karanaa ||
    Adopt such a Guru, that you shall not have to adopt another again.

    ਸੋਪਦੁਰਵਹੁਜਿਬਹੁਰਿਨਰਵਨਾ
    so padh ravahu j bahur n ravanaa ||
    Dwell in such a state, that you shall never have to dwell in any other.

    ਸੋਧਿਆਨੁਧਰਹੁਜਿਬਹੁਰਿਨਧਰਨਾ
    so dhhiaan dhharahu j bahur n dhharanaa ||
    Embrace such a meditation, that you shall never have to embrace any other.

    ਐਸੇਮਰਹੁਜਿਬਹੁਰਿਨਮਰਨਾ
    aisae marahu j bahur n maranaa ||2||
    Die in such a way, that you shall never have to die again. ||2||

    ਉਲਟੀਗੰਗਾਜਮੁਨਮਿਲਾਵਉ
    oulattee gangaa jamun milaavo ||
    Turn your breath away from the left channel, and away from the right channel, and unite them in the central channel of the Sushmanaa.

    ਬਿਨੁਜਲਸੰਗਮਮਨਮਹਿਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਾਵਉ
    bin jal sangam man mehi nhaavo ||
    At their confluence within your mind, take your bath there without water.
    ~SGGS Ji p. 327

    The Ida (left) and the Pingala (right) nadis (channels) carry the life energy (prana). The flow of prana is stimulated by the practice of pranayam. Ask yourself Veer ji, why would technique of pranayam be in Gurbani? This is what I mean, something is missing from the spiritual practice of the average Sikh. When you chuk amrit, the Panj Piare are supposed to impart something to you that opens the door to your liberation. And most people don't receive it. this is Naam. So the average Sikh reading this doesn't know what it's talking about in relation to Naam japna. And this is more than just a pranayam exercise. You receive an energy. No one can fake it. It has to be given. You can't give it to yourself.​

    And why would a technique even be important?

    Why not just think love and become love? If I chant love all day will I become loving? That's because we all have inner demons, we have wounds on the soul from lifetimes. Maya knows how to bring out the worst in us. Without this opening of spiritual energy pathway, the recitation of Gurmantra has no power to clean your mind or karams. Because these nadis influence the pineal gland and the neurotransmitters altering our physical brain chemistry. It does more on a subtle energy level beyond the physical, and enters into non-physical spiritual reality of our being. Naam has the power to change our consciousness.

    In this way, an amritdhari person receives more than a set of clothes. By sincerely practicing Gursikhi and keeping faithful to Guru, by keeping Rehat and practice of Saas Giras Naam Simran, the Naam he receives has the power to change him completely. Not overnight, but according to his karam, his faithful practice and Guruji's kirpa. That is my belief and best understanding. You can't just take the Naam and run with it. It's a complete package. You have the amrit, you have the Naam, you have the discipline, you have the surrender, you have the Rehit Maryada, you have the Gurbani Kirtan of the Lord's praise, and you have the life to mature and put all this into practice. Here is where we make our mistakes and look in the mirror of the soul. One day, with Guruji's kirpa, we will find a jewel.​


    ਇਹੁਮਨੂਆਦ੍ਰਿੜੁਕਰਿਰਖੀਐਗੁਰਮੁਖਿਲਾਈਐਚਿਤੁ॥
    eihu manooaa dhrirr kar rakheeai guramukh laaeeai chith ||
    Hold this mind steady and stable; become Gurmukh and focus your consciousness.

    ਕਿਉਸਾਸਿਗਿਰਾਸਿਵਿਸਾਰੀਐਬਹਦਿਆਉਠਦਿਆਨਿਤ॥
    kio saas giraas visaareeai behadhiaa outhadhiaa nith ||
    How could you ever forget Him, with each breath and morsel of food, sitting down or standing up?

    ਮਰਣਜੀਵਣਕੀਚਿੰਤਾਗਈਇਹੁਜੀਅੜਾਹਰਿਪ੍ਰਭਵਸਿ॥
    maran jeevan kee chinthaa gee eihu jeearraa har prabh vas ||
    My anxiety about birth and death has ended; this soul is under the control of the Lord God.

    ਜਿਉਭਾਵੈਤਿਉਰਖੁਤੂਜਨਨਾਨਕਨਾਮੁਬਖਸਿ॥੧॥
    jio bhaavai thio rakh thoo jan naanak naam bakhas ||1||
    If it pleases You, then save servant Nanak, and bless him with Your Name. ||1||
    ~SGGS Ji p. 314


    ਆਖਿਆਖਿਮਨੁਵਾਵਣਾਜਿਉਜਿਉਜਾਪੈਵਾਇ
    aakh aakh man vaavanaa jio jio jaapai vaae ||
    I speak and chant His Praises, vibrating the instrument of my mind. The more I know Him, the more I vibrate it.

    ਜਿਸਨੋਵਾਇਸੁਣਾਈਐਸੋਕੇਵਡੁਕਿਤੁਥਾਇ
    jis no vaae sunaaeeai so kaevadd kith thhaae ||
    The One, unto whom we vibrate and sing-how great is He, and where is His Place?

    ਆਖਣਵਾਲੇਜੇਤੜੇਸਭਿਆਖਿਰਹੇਲਿਵਲਾਇ
    aakhan vaalae jaetharrae sabh aakh rehae liv laae ||1||
    Those who speak of Him and praise Him-they all continue speaking of Him with love. ||1||
    ~SGGS Ji p. 53


    Holding the mind steady and stable and focusing consciousness, by speaking, chanting, making the body an instrument to vibrate His praises... this is how we can become Gurmukh. This technique belonged historically to purataan Gursikhi but is not well known or even well received today, although it does exist in the Khalsa Panth and not just to any particular Jathabandi. The technique of saas giras simran (with every breath and morsel of food) is found in Sri Prem Sumarg Granth Sahib Ji. Modern Sikhism lost touch with a lot of traditional purataan Gursikh practices.​


    ਭਾਠੀਗਗਨੁਸਿੰਙਿਆਅਰੁਚੁੰਙਿਆਕਨਕਕਲਸਇਕੁਪਾਇਆ
    bhaathee gagan sinn(g)iaa ar chunn(g)iaa kanak kalas eik paaeiaa ||
    The Tenth Gate of my crown chakra is the distilling fire, and the channels of the Ida and Pingala are the funnels, to pour in and empty out the golden vat.

    ਤਿਸੁਮਹਿਧਾਰਚੁਐਅਤਿਨਿਰਮਲਰਸਮਹਿਰਸਨਚੁਆਇਆ
    this mehi dhhaar chuai ath niramal ras mehi rasan chuaaeiaa ||2||
    Into that vat, there trickles a gentle stream of the most sublime and pure essence of all distilled essences. ||2||

    ਏਕਜੁਬਾਤਅਨੂਪਬਨੀਹੈਪਵਨਪਿਆਲਾਸਾਜਿਆ
    eaek j baath anoop banee hai pavan piaalaa saajiaa ||
    Something wonderful has happened-the breath has become the cup.

    ਤੀਨਿਭਵਨਮਹਿਏਕੋਜੋਗੀਕਹਹੁਕਵਨੁਹੈਰਾਜਾ
    theen bhavan mehi eaeko jogee kehahu kavan hai raajaa ||3||
    In all the three worlds, such a Yogi is unique. What king can compare to him? ||3||
    ~SGGS Ji p. 92
     
  10. Harjas Kaur Khalsa

    Harjas Kaur Khalsa
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    ਪੰਚਪਹਰੂਆਦਰਮਹਿਰਹਤੇਤਿਨਕਾਨਹੀਪਤੀਆਰਾ
    panch peharooaa dhar mehi rehathae thin kaa nehee patheeaaraa ||
    The five senses stand as guards at the gate, but now can they be trusted?

    ਚੇਤਿਸੁਚੇਤਚਿਤਹੋਇਰਹੁਤਉਲੈਪਰਗਾਸੁਉਜਾਰਾ
    chaeth suchaeth chith hoe rahu tho lai paragaas oujaaraa ||2||
    When you are conscious in your consciousness, you shall be enlightened and illuminated. ||2||

    ਨਉਘਰਦੇਖਿਜੁਕਾਮਨਿਭੂਲੀਬਸਤੁਅਨੂਪਨਪਾਈ
    no ghar dhaekh j kaaman bhoolee basath anoop n paaee ||
    Seeing the nine openings of the body, the soul-bride is led astray; she does not obtain that incomparable thing.

    ਕਹਤੁਕਬੀਰਨਵੈਘਰਮੂਸੇਦਸਵੈਂਤਤੁਸਮਾਈ੨੨੭੩
    kehath kabeer navai ghar moosae dhasavain thath samaaee ||3||22||73||
    Says Kabeer, the nine openings of the body are being plundered; rise up to the Tenth Gate, and discover the true essence. ||3||22||73||
    ~SGGS Ji p. 339

    A spiritual discipline isn't an easy path or everyone could walk it as manmati. The point of a spiritual discipline is to walk against your inner manmat and put a noose around your 5 inner demons. This is how we change, not by wearing kakkars. All the world and Maya is pulling against you. Sadhana is a daily dying to self. If keeping kakkars was such a point of egotism, why isn't the whole world rushing to wear them and struggle to live up to what they mean? Why are kakkars a point of discrimination worldwide? Because it's not easy to keep this identity.

    No matter how inflated you may think of yourself, if you keep faithful spiritual practice meditation is like a mirror...and what is there isn't a pretty picture. No matter how high you may think yourself, so low will you feel when you look in that mirror. And if you practice sincerely looking in that mirror of Guruji's truth everyday, it helps to keep you humble and in touch with your inner reality. You see, that high flying egotism is all delusion. And like a bubble, it has to burst. So don't worry too much if you see a lot of high flying people. It's really hard to look in that mirror. And flying high like that is just an escape. You can't avoid looking in that mirror sometime... when you close your eyes at night... when you have to die... the reality of who we are will tumble us off our pedestal.

    So this whole thing is a game of love. And everyone approaches this path from a different level, depending on our past karams and our present understanding. Everything that comes to us is Guruji's grace. We can't jump to a higher level. We just come as we are. And Guruji takes us as we are and shows us a way to be better. When you're searching Gurbani, remember you're looking at the sant part of the sant-sipahi. Dasam Pita Ji included also the sipahi part of the equation. A description of kakkars can never be out of context. Gurbani doesn't contradict. Only our minds think contradiction.
    Veer Ji, with all the best intentions you will go the way of every other well intentioned path... into failure. Because Sikh religious practices aren't open-minded... their strict and demanding. Open-mindedness is a quality of heart not of method. Being open-minded alone won't give you what it takes to face hardship, bullets, hatred of the world. If you are so "open-minded" that your spiritual practice is singing a bit of kirtan, reading some Gurbani but has no real discipline... you won't be prepared.

    The teachings of Shabadguru Ji cannot contradict the hukam of Guruji. Our Sikh religious practices are our dharam, given to us by Guruji. We have opportunity to put into practice our love for Guruji. It's meaningless to say you love Guru in all the conveniences of the way YOU want to. To love Guru you have to surrender all that you are. That's the discipline. That's why Guru loves the rehit but not the Sikh. He loves what you are becoming, not the egotism on the way.

    Everyday should be a small sacrifice, a bowing down of egotism, like practice of shaheedi while you're still alive. Because idealism alone doesn't transform consciousness. It's real hard work, sacrifice, inner honesty, loyalty to a path. These are the things that show love for Guru. Dressing a part doesn't please Guru. There's a reason we dress in Guruji's bana. Because when we do something good, when we look in the mirror with pride, it's not our darshan. And when we do something bad, we know how badly we failed to live up to that precious and wonderful darshan. So even Guruji's bana is like a mirror.

    No one is judging non-amritdharis. People are simply using Gurmat definitions of what a Sikh is, what an amritdhari is. No one is stopping anyone from living life however they want. The key is, don't live against Gurmat and say that it's Gurmat. That's all. If you want to cut hairs, do it! But don't say that's Gurmat. If people want to drink and smoke fine. Who can stop them? But if you want to follow a Gurmat path, you can't contradict Gurbani, Akal Takht, the Panj Piares, the Rehit Maryada you received amrit from because you made a commitment.

    It isn't "closed-minded" or "judging" to distinguish one thing from another. That is bibek, discrimination. We have the right to discriminate for ourselves between things, and make best determination if its in line with Gurmat Gursikhi. Problems happen when people want to change the traditional definitions of what is Gurmat, and do a lot of things that aren't accepted and try to force the acceptance. That is what they call "judging." And naturally what happens is they get a strict definition, and they don't like it. And sometimes people try to find a way around that strict definition. But you would only be cheating yourself. Remember, pleasure is the poison, suffering is the cure.

    We are living in open societies. I have freedom to do what I want. I choose to put my life under strict discipline. Not because I think I'm better than somebody. Because I want to tame my own beasts. And I'm a much happier person. I have the freedom for, as well as freedom from. Discipline is a way to live that gives you great peace. If I didn't have my Guru, my rehit, my Naam abiyaas... I wouldn't have a reason for living. Everything else is fake and fades away... even my very life.

    I don't know how anyone can judge the spiritual development of the Singhs/Singhnia since no one can see whats happening on the inside, or where people have come from to be here now sharing in their best way a darshan of Guruji. Maybe if you look at someone's life over time, you can better judge success from failure. But most of all, don't worry too much about them. Worry about you.



    ~bhul chak maaf karni ji
     
  11. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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    The point of a spiritual discipline is to walk against your inner manmat.

    Harjas Ji,

    It's easier to die than walk against our inner manmat. So, therefore, Sikhism is the ultimate challenge which even the great samurais of the past fail to abide. Thus marking their extinction.
    You're an enlightened soul because you have enlightened me with the pure essence emanating from your heart. Guru's Kirpa is definitely with you.

    I would like to understand more on Naam has the power to change our consciousness. Are there different levels of Naam ? When you say naam, isn't it the Anhad Bani ? Kindly share your experiences with us. What does it mean when Gurbani explains :
    ਉਲਟੀਗੰਗਾਜਮੁਨਮਿਲਾਵਉ
    oulattee gangaa jamun milaavo ||
    Turn your breath away from the left channel, and away from the right channel, and unite them in the central channel of the Sushmanaa.


    ਬਿਨੁਜਲਸੰਗਮਮਨਮਹਿਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਾਵਉ
    bin jal sangam man mehi nhaavo ||
    At their confluence within your mind, take your bath there without water.
    ~SGGS Ji p. 327

    the Panj Piare are supposed to impart something to you that opens the door to your liberation. And most people don't receive it. this is Naam. ​

    Also please elaborate on this opening of the door to liberation.​

    I'm interested.​
     
  12. Harjas Kaur Khalsa

    Harjas Kaur Khalsa
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    The Ida is the left channel, and the pingala is the right channel these are primary nadis (energy pathways) of the body. They flow together into the central shushmana nadi. "At their confluence within your mind" refers to the place where the 2 channels ida and pingala run along the spine intersecting the shushmana from the pubicoccygeal area to the location of the 6th chakra, approximately where your forehead is. At this spot where the ida and pingala meet the shushmana is also the location in the brain between the pituitary gland and the pineal gland.


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    By controlling the breath, pranayam, you are able to stimulate those glands of the brain redirecting your psycho-spiritual energies. This in turn allows the production of neurohormones and neurotransmitters which have an effect on your consciousness. It is a jugta by which you can clean the energy channels and allow the energy to be redirected to pierce through the barriers of the chakras and ascend to the 6th chakra where it has a powerful effect on your body-mind. This spiritual energy can unlock the dasm duar opening the crown chakra so you may have darshan of Vaheguru and hear the anehad shabad. You only hear the anehad shabad when the dasm duar is opened. This is the blossoming of the thousand petaled heart lotus.


    ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿਸਾਚੁਮਿਲੈਤਾਵੇਖਾ
    guramukh saach milai thaa vaekhaa ||
    The Gurmukh attains Truth, and comes to see them.


    ਨਉਦਰਵਾਜੇਦਸਵੈਮੁਕਤਾਅਨਹਦਸਬਦੁਵਜਾਵਣਿਆ
    no dharavaajae dhasavai mukathaa anehadh sabadh vajaavaniaa ||3||
    Beyond the nine gates, the Tenth Gate is found, and liberation is obtained. The Unstruck Melody of the Shabad vibrates. ||3||
    ~SGGS Ji p. 110


    ਪਰਗਟੁਸਬਦੁਹੈਸੁਖਦਾਤਾਅਨਦਿਨੁਨਾਮੁਧਿਆਵਣਿਆ
    paragatt sabadh hai sukhadhaathaa anadhin naam dhhiaavaniaa ||5||
    The Giver of peace is revealed through the Shabad, meditating upon the Naam, night and day. ||5||

    ਅੰਤਰਿਜੋਤਿਪਰਗਟੁਪਾਸਾਰਾ
    anthar joth paragatt paasaaraa ||
    Deep within the self is the Light of God; It radiates throughout the expanse of His creation.

    ਗੁਰਸਾਖੀਮਿਟਿਆਅੰਧਿਆਰਾ
    gur saakhee mittiaa andhhiaaraa ||
    Through the Guru's Teachings, the darkness of spiritual ignorance is dispelled.

    ਕਮਲੁਬਿਗਾਸਿਸਦਾਸੁਖੁਪਾਇਆਜੋਤੀਜੋਤਿਮਿਲਾਵਣਿਆ
    kamal bigaas sadhaa sukh paaeiaa jothee joth milaavaniaa ||6||
    The heart-lotus blossoms forth, and eternal peace is obtained, as one's light merges into the Light. ||6||
    ~SGGS Ji p. 126


    There are different levels of your being. Naam exists in this level of reality, and in other dimensions as well. Just consider the physics of wave-particle duality. Even a sub-atomic particle which we imagine to be some kind of tiny object like a grain of sand, actually at those levels of size conform to quantum mechanics, not Newtonian laws. So it's not really perceivable as an object discrete in time and space. And that subatomic particle as well as being a particle which physicists can measure on a scale, is also a wave of energy. As the property of a wave, it is infinite in all directions.

    Just accept that your physical body exists on a plane of dimensionality measurable in linear time. But another aspect of your physicality is able to transcend time and space just like the wave. Something in the transcendent aspect of your being is beyond the physical. If you vibrate your physical being in tune with the timeless Naam, you are able to raise your physical processes and transcend them.


    ਨਾਮ ਕੇ ਧਾਰੇ ਸਗਲੇ ਜੰਤ ॥
    naam kae dhhaarae sagalae janth ||
    The Naam is the Support of all creatures.


    ਨਾਮ ਕੇ ਧਾਰੇ ਖੰਡ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੰਡ ॥
    naam kae dhhaarae khandd brehamandd ||
    The Naam is the Support of the earth and solar systems.

    ਨਾਮ ਕੇ ਧਾਰੇ ਸਿਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਬੇਦ ਪੁਰਾਨ ॥
    naam kae dhhaarae simrith baedh puraan ||
    The Naam is the Support of the Simritees, the Vedas and the Puraanas.

    ਨਾਮ ਕੇ ਧਾਰੇ ਸੁਨਨ ਗਿਆਨ ਧਿਆਨ ॥
    naam kae dhhaarae sunan giaan dhhiaan ||
    The Naam is the Support by which we hear of spiritual wisdom and meditation.

    ਨਾਮ ਕੇ ਧਾਰੇ ਆਗਾਸ ਪਾਤਾਲ ॥
    naam kae dhhaarae aagaas paathaal ||
    The Naam is the Support of the Akaashic ethers and the nether regions.

    ਨਾਮ ਕੇ ਧਾਰੇ ਸਗਲ ਆਕਾਰ ॥
    naam kae dhhaarae sagal aakaar ||
    The Naam is the Support of all bodies.

    ਨਾਮ ਕੇ ਧਾਰੇ ਪੁਰੀਆ ਸਭ ਭਵਨ ॥
    naam kae dhhaarae pureeaa sabh bhavan ||
    The Naam is the Support of all worlds and realms.

    ਨਾਮ ਕੈ ਸੰਗਿ ਉਧਰੇ ਸੁਨਿ ਸ੍ਰਵਨ ॥
    naam kai sang oudhharae sun sravan ||
    Associating with the Naam, listening to it with the ears, one is saved.
    ~SGGS Ji p. 284

    I'm a morakh. I have no power to enlighten anyone. If something is truly enlightening, it's because I'm standing under the lamp of Gurbani. And if there's darkness in what I write, it's because my ego casts a big shadow and stands in the way of that wonderful light.
    We are dying every second because we walk according to our manmat and not according to Gurmat.





    The door to liberation is the dasm duar. Naam Japna is the engine of our spiritual practice because the Naam Gurmatara we are given has the power to clean our subtle energy channels and pierce through the barriers in our 6 chakras allowing the energy to ascend and unlock the tenth gate, crown chakra. Only rehitvaan Gursikh Panj Piare who are Naam abiyaasi's can impart to someone the technique of Naam drirh at amrit sinchaar. No one but Panj Piare can impart this technique.




    ਉਲਟਤਪਵਨਚਕ੍ਰਖਟੁਭੇਦੇਸੁਰਤਿਸੁੰਨਅਨਰਾਗੀ
    oulattath pavan chakr khatt bhaedhae surath sunn anaraagee ||
    I turned my breath inwards, and pierced through the six chakras of the body, and my awareness was centered on the Primal Void of the Absolute Lord.

    ਆਵੈਜਾਇਮਰੈਜੀਵੈਤਾਸੁਖੋਜੁਬੈਰਾਗੀ
    aavai n jaae marai n jeevai thaas khoj bairaagee ||1||

    Search for the One who does not come or go, who does not die and is not born, O renunciate. ||1||

    ਮੇਰੇਮਨਮਨਹੀਉਲਟਿਸਮਾਨਾ
    maerae man man hee oulatt samaanaa ||
    My mind has turned away from the world, and is absorbed in the Mind of God.

    ਗੁਰਪਰਸਾਦਿਅਕਲਿਭਈਅਵਰੈਨਾਤਰੁਥਾਬੇਗਾਨਾਰਹਾਉ
    gur parasaadh akal bhee avarai naathar thhaa baegaanaa ||1|| rehaao ||

    By Guru's Grace, my understanding has been changed; otherwise, I was totally ignorant. ||1||Pause||
    ~SGGS Ji p. 333


    ~Bhul chak maaf
     
  13. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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    There are different levels of your being. Naam exists in this level of reality, and in other dimensions as well. Just consider the physics of wave-particle duality. Even a sub-atomic particle which we imagine to be some kind of tiny object like a grain of sand, actually at those levels of size conform to quantum mechanics, not Newtonian laws. So it's not really perceivable as an object discrete in time and space. And that subatomic particle as well as being a particle which physicists can measure on a scale, is also a wave of energy. As the property of a wave, it is infinite in all directions.

    Harjas Ji,

    Waves being free energy while particles are bottled-up energy. The unmanifested and the manifested. Nirgun and Sargun.

    Nirgun niroop hai, sundar swaroop hai, bhupan ke bhoop hai, data maha daan hai,
    Praan ke devaiya, dhoodh poot ke devaiya...................................................

    Only rehitvaan Gursikh Panj Piare who are Naam abiyaasi's can impart to someone the technique of Naam drirh at amrit sinchaar. No one but Panj Piare can impart this technique.

    Does this mean that many are being short-changed when taking Amrit ?
    Do those who hear the Anhad Bani qualify to become Naam abiyaasi's ?

    Talking about Anhad Bani - can you define the sound - similar to what ?
     
  14. carolineislands

    carolineislands
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    Namjap ji,

    Heartfelt thanks to you for posting this. I get it. And I feel less alone with my convictions since I read this post.

    I still only wear kara and read Sri Guru Granth Sahib and daily Hukamnama and am focusing in on remembering the name of God. I wear my kara because the Guru put it in my heart to do so and it was a very personal decision. Most of the time it can't even be seen or noticed by others and is my own reminder to me where ever I am and whatever I am doing. I have purchased dastar cloth and practice tying it and I have also purchased a kirpan. I am waiting for some Sunder Gutka and a couple of other texts in English I have ordered from India. The reason I don't wear the outer symbols of Sikhi yet is because I am not worthy to be a representative of Sikhi. I probably will never be worthy but for some reason I feel I should be more worthy than I am now.
    See, this is all profoundly personal for me. The outer symbols, for me, need to be a sign of inner qualities and I would feel so much a hypocrit if I put on the outer before the inner substance was present.
    I have sensed the things you spoke of when you said you had a sort of feeling of superiority when you first started putting on bana. I so much appreciate your honesty and humility about this because its very important to me. I like what Guruka Singh says about it when he says bana is something you should do for yourself, not for others. It is a reflection of your commitment, not to distinguish yourself.
    As in all facets of life, the motivation behind an action is more important than most of us might realize. If the motivation is off kilter, then the action is hollow and cheapened. That's what I am so aware of and my love for Sikhi grows every day, as does my love for Guru Nanak, and the last thing I want to do is cheapen his message. I don't hesitate to wear the outer signs because I'm ashamed of what people will think -- I hesitate because I don't want to do it until I can back up bana with substance. When that time will come -- I'll leave that up to God.

    Thank you so much -- sincerely.
     
  15. carolineislands

    carolineislands
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    svea00, your English is beautiful and I understood you quite well. :)
     
  16. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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    Backing bana with bani - balancing the inner with the outer. Amazing thought, Caroline Ji.
     
  17. carolineislands

    carolineislands
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    Interesting, that the very Panj Piare that instruct you not to think of anyone except the Gurus as your savior are now being presented as the Guru. Wouldn't that be thinking of them as your savior?
    :hmm:
    For me the point of the OP is to be careful not to let legalism overtake us. Like bureauocracy, when the rule becomes more important that the purpose for which it was instituted, we have strayed off the path.

    JMHO
     
  18. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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    Caroline Ji,

    My understanding of the Initiation - that it's a sacred process. A one-to-5 Pyare imparting vibrations which are too strong for the unprepared individual to digest. The process of preparation like vows of commitment within one's self is in itself an initial cleansing process. Nobody can decide for you. It's your inner strength that leads you to it. This commitment has an effect which allows changes to occur in all directions of your life. The initiation itself is the seed of spiritual progress planted in your consciousness.
     
  19. Harjas Kaur Khalsa

    Harjas Kaur Khalsa
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    Well obviously someone can't give what they don't have. Amrit is amrit per SGPC Rehat Maryada. But not all the Panj have this technique, so not all can impart it to you. It is a point of contention within the Panth. My belief is this was purataan Gursikh practice which was lost to the Panth. There are some supportive references to it in historical Sikh literature and Gurbani. It's a gupt practice, so it's in the Panth, but not that well known and accepted. I can't personally judge or devalue anybody's amrit or any Panj Piare. If you had amrit, then you're amritdhari. But I do believe Naam abiyaas Vaheguru simran is a valid method of liberation. If someone is amritdhari and themselves feel something is missing from their spiritual practice, I invite those persons to consider receiving Naam drihr from Panj Piare so they can do Naam abiyaas.


    If someone already hears the Anhad bani, his dasm duar is already opened. No one qualifies to become Naam abiyaasi, it is a technique given to you when you receive amrit from rehitvaan Naam abiyaasi Panj. If someone is a Naam abiyaasi, it just means they have a technique of japping Gurmantar for purposes of opening the tenth door with Guruji's kirpa. Like someone who just got to the classroom. If someone hears the Anhad bani he is already graduated college and is already Naam abiyaasi. Plus, not everyone heard the Anhad bani who says they do. A lot of fake babas and deravaad people get a technique from dedhari gurus, but they don't receive the Naam. You can only receive Naam from Panj Piare who are Guruji's own saroop.


    It is not a physical sound... and I don't hear it, so what can I say? Lol.

    But I will say this much, people hear a lot of contention about Naam as their are different opinions in the Panth. But this is my experience: When I attended Naam simran with Naam abiyaasi's, I didn't know what I was hearing. And it was so loud and energetic. The room is dark and you hear these noises. It's a little unsettling. I tried to imitate what I was hearing because I wanted to participate, but I couldn't duplicate it. And at home at amrit vela, I tried doing this simran on my own, but was basically just japping Vaheguru and breathing in and out. And it felt like nothing at all.

    Then I took amrit, and this is what happened. I was scared through the whole thing and couldn't wait for it to end... because it was hours long and I was so nervous. (I know, maybe there's some tough, fearless people out there but wasn't me) So I assure you my mind was on just staying in the right position and stuff and not fall over. There was no thinking, "oh now, in front of the Panj, I'm going to stop and do Naam abiyaas." Lol, last thought from my mind.

    And at the end, where the Panj pushed my head so I would bend forward and touch the ground to matatek to Guruji, something happened. As soon as my forehead touched the floor, Naam abiyaas was coming out of me. And I mean so intense and so loud and so fast that it took over an hour, maybe 2 hours to calm that energy down. There were abiyaasi's there to help us all calm the energy down but it took a long time. It wasn't something I was doing at all. It's something that gets imparted into you. And it will knock you out of yourself. I really don't know what happened. It hit like a bolt of lightning. And then at some point I landed. I don't even know how I was walking around. Because this thing was just happening to me.


    ~bhul chak maaf
     
  20. carolineislands

    carolineislands
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    So is it fair to assume that nobody achieved this level of consciousness before the establishment of the first Khalsa?
     
  21. carolineislands

    carolineislands
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    SPNer

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2008
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    Is Guruji capable of imparting Naam to whom he pleases? I thought this was something that came from inside and not outside and was only imparted to us by the Guru's grace.

    Kind of like this: YouTube - What is Guru?

    Thanks for your patience :)
     

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