Now see? This is one of the things I really LOVE about Sikhi -- SIKHS!

Wow!!! That's wonderful. So much of knowledge about Sikhism ? You've become my teacher, Harjas Ji. I haven't asked your age - early 30's ? If I guessed right, let me know. It's nice to share info with you and I hope you will participate to give your views about Archived_member2's posts. Feel free to disagree with anyone including me, coz I'm learning.

__________________

I am 45 yrs, Ji. But I don't only come from Christian background. My family was Christian, but from earliest youth I studied mysticism of many religions. My great-grandmother was an occultist and spiritualist medium who was well known at the time of the early 1900's in her community. I can recognize the yogic practice alluded to in the SGGS Ji more readily than someone who never heard of these things. To some these things are a mystery, what is meant by 9 openings or 10 gates or 27 levels, etc. But those are yogic terms. Dasm Duar and pranayam is spoken of in Bhagavad Gita as means to mukti. Guru Nanak Dev Ji was regarded as a Spiritual Master by yogis and siddhis as evidenced in his dialogues with them in Siddh Gosht.

You can't fully understand Gurbani by completely rejecting yogic philosophy because thats the background and cultural context it's spoken in. Sikhism isn't a rejection of Hindu philosophy, but a rejection of Hindu religion. During time of Kal Yug, to correct errors, Guruji created Sikh Dharam. The Christian Bible is also an extremely mystical document which alludes to yogic concepts. And the field gets muddy if you take into account banned scriptures such as the Gnostic gospels. Tibetan Buddhist Lamas have writings of Jesus preserved, who was to them, Mani of Manicheanism. The Tocharians had fled the Catholic persecution of Manicheans and moved into areas of China and Tibet blending their beliefs with Buddhism. Even the Tocharian language is a blend of Greek, Latin, Turkish and Sanskrit. Manichean Gnosticism had strong influence on Islam and Sufism as well, since the Uighers roamed an area from China, Tibet, Turkey, Afghanistan, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan and Persia (Modern day Iran). Unless someone is familiar with hidden history or occultism they wouldn't be aware of the connections in the mystical literature. "Before converting to Islam, Uyghurs were Manichaeans, Zoroastrians, Buddhists, or NestorianChristians."



Tocharian envoy in ancient China, caucasian mummy from China


Caucasian racial traits among China's blonde Uigher population.

When you uncover the history, it will come as no surprise to find parallel concepts and relationships among the major world religions. Interestingly it was also Buddhism, Gnostic Christianity as well as Hinduism which influenced the Sufism of Guru Nanak Dev Ji's time. Guru Ji is revered as a spiritual Master by Buddhists today and a saint by Muslims. So Guru Ji was a Master of all these hidden spiritual teachings. And His Masterpiece for the world? Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaaj.
We can see from looking at Sufi concepts there is a form of chakra system which is alluded to, chanting the Name of God (Dhikr) as spiritual practice to open spiritual perception, and the requirement of a guide, spiritual Master or Guru to initiate and empower this process.

Quote:

Dhikr comes from Arabic word dhikru llah. Muslim religious technique used by Sufis, in which a name of God or a short religious phrase is repeated over and over again. The object of doing this varies somewhat. It could be to glorify God or, as is more common in Sufism, by the means by which one tries to step out of this world in order to come closer to God. The Arabic term "dhikr" should be translated with "remembrance".

We can see a parallel with Naam Simran and Vaheguru Gurmantara in the Sufi practice of Dhikr. Criticisms against Sufism include definitions of God which are not strictly monotheistic, but pantheistic.

Quote:

"As an example, some critics consider the concept of divine unity Wahdat-ul-wujood equivalent to pantheism and therefore incompatible with Islam." Sufism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jewish mystical teachings like the Kabbalah even have a form of chakra system. But to understand the mysticism of any religious teaching, first you have to read very carefully. If you're not looking for it, you will entirely miss the occult esoteric core at the heart of mystical religious teachings. Everyone approaches spirituality with their own understanding. No one can invalidate that. But sometimes there are inaccuracies in understanding of terminology, history and context.
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." ~John 1:1 (Christian Bible)

~Bhul chak maaf

Drawing from Qur'anic verses, virtually all Sufis distinguish Lataif-e-Sitta (The Six Subtleties), Nafs, Qalb, Ruh, Sirr, Khafi & Akhfa. These lataif (singular : latifa) designate various psychospiritual "organs", or faculties of sensory perception. Sufic development involves the awakening of these spiritual centers of perception that lie dormant in an individual. Each center is associated with a particular color and general area of the body, often with a particular prophet, and varies from order to order. The help of a guide is considered necessary to help activate these centers. After undergoing this process, the dervish is said to reach a certain type of "completion."

When you uncover the history, it will come as no surprise to find parallel concepts and relationships among the major world religions. Interestingly it was also Buddhism, Gnostic Christianity as well as Hinduism which influenced the Sufism of Guru Nanak Dev Ji's time. Guru Ji is revered as a spiritual Master by Buddhists today and a saint by Muslims. So Guru Ji was a Master of all these hidden spiritual teachings. And His Masterpiece for the world? Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaaj.

This is interesting stuff, Harjas Ji. You've opened a new dimension of priori knowledge to me. Is there a concept of a map - like Begumpura, Amarpur, Mansarovar, etc while one journeys thru these inner realms ?

__________________

It's interesting to note that Sufis aren't recognized by mainstream Muslims.

YouTube - Sufi Dance
YouTube - Kookay Gone Wild
YouTube - Tear the church up 3 (however you wanna)
YouTube - trance ritual dance
YouTube - Thaipusam ritualistic dance

Buddhism, which I practiced very seriously for about 13 years has a form of nam jaap. Especially the most popular Buddhist sect in the world: Pure Land Buddhism. That's all they do.
Tendai Buddhism which I practiced seriously for 4 years, is an ancient Japanese sect with tantic tradition, works with chakras, Hindu gods, mantras and mudras. Only the initiated receive this; I had to train to be a Buddhist priestess to receive these...it all comes from India.
I left it as you have to give total obedience to your sensei (guru). Why would I do this to a man with obvious flaws and faults?

Caroline Ji,

You can add this one in the list too :

YouTube - Re: another crazy Sunni

__________________

Thank you! Interesting that the movements you see in this film are very similar to some movements you see in African American ecstatic worship -- the slight bending and crossing ones arms over the abdomen then standing up and throwing the arms to the sides and back, and pounding the air in front of ones self in an expression of barely contained passion/joy/adoration and thankfulness.

We humans are so much more alike than most of us ever even guess. God bless and forgive us all... When are we going to stop focusing on the differences and hurting, killing, slaughtering each other in the name of the very God that should be binding us together?

Whenever I hear people criticizing the manner in which someone expresses their passion or joy towards God I want to say, "Yeah, I bet you act just as stupid when you're making love to your worldly husband!"

Caroline Ji,

There is a consistency in expressing love for God and the love for unity with a spouse. It touches the most natural instinct in all living things. Sex is only one side of it. It is the yeaning to be one with the object of desire. Even when our worldly spouse is next to one, one still has the feeling of separation existing, how then can one get closer to quench this ever-present desire ?

__________________